{"id":8550,"date":"2006-09-24T09:10:57","date_gmt":"2006-09-24T13:10:57","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com\/archives\/8550.html"},"modified":"2006-09-24T09:10:57","modified_gmt":"2006-09-24T13:10:57","slug":"sunday-discussion-group-68","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/sunday-discussion-group-68\/","title":{"rendered":"Sunday Discussion Group"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>The debate in DC over whether and how to torture &#8212; I still find it painful to type those words &#8212; gripped the political establishment for a couple of weeks, and Dems on the Hill took an entirely passive approach. It wasn&#8217;t necessarily because they didn&#8217;t care, it was more part of a deliberate strategy: Republicans were beating each other up over the issue, and Dems decided not to help break up the fight.<\/p>\n<p>Whether that was a sound strategy or not is open to some debate. Now that the Three Stooges and the Bush White House have struck a &#8220;compromise,&#8221; of course, Dems, who have invested literally nothing in the discussion thus far, have to decide what to do about a critical moral, legal, and national security issue. Michael Froomkin <a href=\"http:\/\/www.discourse.net\/archives\/2006\/09\/shame_and_horror.html\">set the stage<\/a> quite well:<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>The Democrats, having until now largely chosen to stay quiet on grounds of political expediency, now face a moral choice about how hard to fight the destruction of habeas corpus and the ratification of de facto unreviewable power to torture.<\/p>\n<p>First option, <a href=\"http:\/\/glenngreenwald.blogspot.com\/2006\/09\/sen-reid-specter-bill-will-not-be.html\">block this horror<\/a> &#8212; filibuster if needed &#8212; and risk paying a political price: For a taste of the &#8216;<a href=\"http:\/\/www.rawstory.com\/news\/2006\/911_themed_ad_to_tell_Americans_0911.html\">vote for us or die<\/a>&#8216; campaign that&#8217;s in the works, see this <a href=\"http:\/\/electioncentral.tpmcafe.com\/blog\/electioncentral\/2006\/sep\/21\/ct_05\">utterly repulsive<\/a> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.johnsonforcongress.com\/National_Security.mpg\">ad already being run by Rep. Nancy Johnson (R-CT)<\/a>. And recall that Johnson is supposedly one of the nicer Republicans (and a new friend of Sen. Lieberman&#8217;s).<\/p>\n<p>Second option, do the usual infective stuff and pay a different political price (the base will turn on you, as will anyone else with some decency). Plus earn a black spot in history.<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Let&#8217;s flesh the details of these choices out a bit. I&#8217;m with Prof. Froomkin on the substance, but I&#8217;m willing to concede that competing voices within the party can make a compelling argument for either option.<br \/>\n<!--more--><br \/>\nThe first option has the benefit of the moral high ground, but a) isn&#8217;t politically pragmatic; and b) is probably the choice Republicans are hoping Dems will take. Nevertheless, Dems could show some backbone, take a firm stand on human rights, and filibuster the &#8220;compromise&#8221; on torture. They might also consider some carefully-crafted amendments that could offer nominal improvements to the bill, or, at a minimum, put a few Republicans in awkward positions.<\/p>\n<p>In fact, the Dems could raise quite a fuss in this debate if they choose to. A few good senators could simply read every quote Warner, McCain, and Graham made the last couple of weeks about protecting U.S. troops, moral standing, America&#8217;s values, etc. Maybe some Dems could track down Colin Powell, who&#8217;s been eerily quiet since the &#8220;deal&#8221; was announced, and some JAGs who recognize the &#8220;compromise&#8221; as a scam. In a nutshell, force a real debate about abuse, habeas corpus, abandoning the Geneva Conventions, after-the-fact immunity for war crimes, and an unjustified expansion of extra-constitutional presidential power. It may be out of fashion to stand up for American values, but that won&#8217;t change as long as Democrats stay silent.<\/p>\n<p>Given that set-up, Door #2 may sound craven, but the argument is not entirely without merit. Dems didn&#8217;t engage in this debate because the rules were fixed in advance &#8212; with 44 seats in the Senate, they couldn&#8217;t win anyway. The best they could hope for is the three-headed &#8220;maverick&#8221; monster could keep Bush relatively in check. They didn&#8217;t, but that&#8217;s not the Dems&#8217; fault; it&#8217;s the problem of having so few decent, principled Republicans left.<\/p>\n<p>As this argument goes, Rove &#038; Co. want nothing more than to see Dems filibuster a detainee policy, six weeks before the midterm elections, so there&#8217;s no reason to give them what they want, especially if it&#8217;s bound to fail. It&#8217;s not as if a sizable portion of the public is going to vote on this issue anyway. If Dems want to make a difference, create a check on an out-of-control executive, and stop a misguided agenda, they&#8217;ll need to start winning elections. Making it easier to label the party &#8220;weak on terror&#8221; isn&#8217;t the way to make that happen.<\/p>\n<p>This may not be the morally superior tack, and it won&#8217;t win anyone any &#8220;Profiles in Courage&#8221; awards, but with 44 votes, we were going to lose anyway. From here, the key is to figure out how to lose with the least amount of political damage.<\/p>\n<p>So, what say you? How badly have Dems screwed this up? And what, if anything, do they do now? Option 1: fight like hell, stick to principles, stand up for basic decency against the GOP onslaught. Option 2: sidestep unwinnable fight, embrace pragmatism, get ready to hit the GOP over Iraq for the next six weeks.<\/p>\n<p>Discuss.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>The debate in DC over whether and how to torture &#8212; I still find it painful to type those words &#8212; gripped the political establishment for a couple of weeks, and Dems on the Hill took an entirely passive approach. It wasn&#8217;t necessarily because they didn&#8217;t care, it was more part of a deliberate strategy: [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":3,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"footnotes":""},"categories":[617],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-8550","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-general"],"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8550","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/3"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=8550"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/8550\/revisions"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=8550"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=8550"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/stevebenen.com\/thecarpetbaggerreport\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=8550"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}