They don’t even have the right rifles

February 22, 2007

Thousands of National Guard and Reserve troops had been told they could expect a longer break between deployments to Iraq. In some cases, reservists were promised they would get years between deployments. Now, they’re being told to forget what they’d been told; Bush’s escalation strategy demands more sacrifice.

The Pentagon is planning to send more than 14,000 National Guard troops back to Iraq next year, shortening their time between deployments to meet the demands of President Bush’s buildup, Defense Department officials said Wednesday. […]

The accelerated timetable illustrates the cascading effect that the White House plan to increase the number of troops in Iraq by more than 21,000 is putting on the entire Army and in particular on Reserve forces, which officers predicted would face severe challenges in recruiting, training and equipping their forces.

It also highlights the political risks of the White House’s Iraq strategy. Sending large numbers of reservists to Iraq in the middle of next year’s election campaign could drive up casualties among part-time soldiers in communities where support for the administration’s approach in Iraq is already tenuous, according to opinion polls.

As if that weren’t bad enough, there’s the equipment problem weighing heavily on the military. Maj. Gen. Harry M. Wyatt III, commander of the Oklahoma National Guard, told the NYT that one-third of his soldiers lacked the M-4 rifles preferred by active-duty soldiers and that there were also shortfalls in night vision goggles and other equipment. Capt. Christopher Heathscott, a spokesman for the Arkansas National Guard, said the state’s 39th Brigade Combat Team was 600 rifles short for its 3,500 soldiers and also lacked its full arsenal of mortars and howitzers.

Think about that — National Guard troops are training for another quick deployment, but some of these soldiers don’t even have the right rifles yet. Body armor and Humvee protection is one thing, but Guard troops don’t have the rifles they want?

It’s unfortunately part of a trend.

The Politico reported today that military officials have given lawmakers “a long list of equipment and reconstruction needs totaling nearly $36 billion, denied earlier by the administration in its $481 billion defense appropriations request for the new fiscal year.”

The Army and Marine Corps say they need more than 5,000 armored vehicles, another $153 million for systems that defend against the deadly improvised explosive devices in Iraq and $13 million in language translation systems.

In an annual exercise initiated by the ranking member of the House Armed Services Committee, the military service chiefs were asked to forward spending priorities for the new 2008 fiscal year that either Pentagon budget planners or White House budget officials struck from the services’ original requests. Lawmakers use the list to gauge where military commanders see shortfalls and to justify additions to the appropriations. […]

The Army’s $10.3 billion list includes $2.2 billion for 2,500 special vehicles to better protect troops against roadside bomb attacks.

Murtha’s “readiness strategy” is premised on the argument that troops with inadequate training and equipment shouldn’t be sent to Iraq. With this in mind, expect today’s reports to play a big role in the congressional debate. I can’t wait to hear to hear war supporters argue that National Guard troops who currently don’t even have the right rifles should be deployed anyway.

You go to war with the Army you have…

  • dickhead cheney must have some super guns they can use. and they’re specially designed to shoot the enemy in the face.

    seriously, this is pathetic in more than one way. first off is the problem of not being equipped. hopefully murtha can provide some help here. second is the problem of not having enough of a break between tours of duty. remember, these are not professional soldiers, they are our citizen soldiers.

    that brings me to the worst problem. what is going to happen to our national guard, our ready reserves, when these people get tired of having their lives uprooted, taken from their families and their careers, time after time? we have already seen a serious drop in volunteers for the guard and i think it will get much, much worse.

  • During World War I, Czar Nicholas sent thousands of Russian soldiers into combat without any rifles at all. They were told to pick up the rifles of the already dead. This has always been held as emblematic of his supreme incompetence. Sounds like Nicky has some competition.

  • Looks like the Murtha plan (readiness standards tied to funding) is a timely piece of legislation….lets hope the spoon fed news media can put two and two together.

  • Even if Congress gives the military all of the money it needed today there is a long, long time between requesting equipment and getting the equipment. Uparmored Humvees don’t grow on trees.

    As for the National Guard, I don’t know if it will ever recover. “Two weekends a month.” near your home is one thing. I seriously considered joining the NG and that is saying something because my normal reaction to anything like an order is “Fuck you buddy.” Now their motto should be “Two years half way around the world with a month off (if you’re lucky).” And where does this leave us if there is a domestic disaster?

    Fucked. And why? Because the Dry Heaving Draft Dodger had to prove the NG (where he sorta kinda served when he could be bothered) was as big and bad as the rest of the military.

    George Bush: Worst. American. Ever.

  • Not to sound crass or anything, but since they’re being sent over there as little more than IED-fodder, for the sole purpose of further annointing the ReThug “Altar of War” with their blood—why would they ever need such things as vehicles, body-armor, and rifles? They’ll “die for their country a whole lot quicker” if they can’t shoot at anything. And if the Reich scream-machine doesn’t like what I’ve just written—then let them prove me wrong, and get these guys the equipment they need to do the job with….

  • There are plenty of AK-47’s & ammo avaliable at arms outlets in Afghanistan. Probably at a better price than DOD gets in the USA. Speaking of our Dept. of Defense, just what the hell do we get out of it for the 500 billion a year we pour into it.

  • All along, I’ve had one of the same concerns as “Orange.” The National Guard is primarily intended as a domestic emergency force, whether to maintain order in a civil crisis or help with natural disasters. In the short term, Iraq deployment keeps them on the other side of the globe. In the long term, given the way they’ve been misused in Iraq, there just may be no National Guard at all.

    At least once a day, I read about Iraq and notice one more little piece added to Bush’s mosaic of American self-destruction. We’re at a point where we’ve forgotten how America was before 9/11. I think it’s becoming evident that the disaster of 9/11 was smaller than the disaster that began on 9/12.

  • alibubba, i can remember sitting here on 9/11 thinking that things are only going to go downhill from here. little did i know how right i was going to be 🙁

  • I forget, how did the Army fair worse under Carter and Clinton?

    “…military officials have given lawmakers ‘a long list of equipment and reconstruction needs totaling nearly $36 billion, denied earlier by the administration in its $481 billion defense appropriations request for the new fiscal year.”

    My hope is that someone on the Hill asks the DoD and the White House why these requests were denied, especially considering that these programs are to help US forces currently fighitng, and not some gold-plated Lockheed program.

  • I am grateful that “orange” never joined the National Guard. Read T Paine’s comment about the summer solider & the sunshine patriot. I served in Iraq in 2005-2006 with some outstanding NG units.

    What I am grateful for is those citizens who routinely choose to give up 25% of their weekends and serve. They serve for lots of reasons … because a family member served, because they asked themselves “what can I do for my country?”, because they want job training or an education, because they want to be a part of something bigger than themselves, etc. One thing they don’t do it for is money … it doesn’t pay enough.

    As far as a domestic disaster … the NG is still responding to those too. The initial Katrina response in the first few day by the NG was a prime example (and don’t try to color that with the poor followup by other government agencies, that is not the role of the NG)

  • So if a person decides the military is not for them, they are a sunshine soldier or summer patriot?

    As for 25% of weekends, since when has service in the NG been just 25% of any damn weekends? Are you winding me up or do you just not realize you’re not making a lick of sense?

    Either way, fuck you buddy. (But in the nicest possible way.)

  • …Of particular concern, [a spokesman for the Arkansas National Guard] said, is the possibility that the prospects of going to Iraq next year could cause some Arkansas reservists not to re-enlist this year…

    Gee, Ya think?

    How about going to all the young republican gatherings and seeing if they want to sign up to go to Iraq without a fucking rifle.

  • The M-4 is basically the same rifle as the M-16. The major changes are a shortened barrel and a collapsible stock. To say troops can’t deploy or fight without all being equipped with M-4s is just wrong.

    You might as well say that all the troops must have tents and trailers equipped with the latest “obscene amenties”.

  • Don’t get saucy with me, Bernaise! (thanks TAFK)

    25% of the weekends … NG minimum (that means the smallest amount) is one weekend a month plus 15 days of annual training. Follow closely … a typical month is about 4 weeks, so that means about 4 weekends each month. If 1 of 4 is used for NG duty, then that is about 25%. The 15 days annual training is commonly referred to as two weeks, but I know two weeks is 14 days … must be another administration lie.

    Most NG members exceed the minimums, even when not mobilized to federal active service.

  • “To say troops can’t deploy or fight without all being equipped with M-4s is just wrong.”

    I would have to see the conditon of their M-16s. How old are they? Are they proving problematic? Are the troops issued the necessary cleaning equipment to keep their weapons functioning?

    I had an M-16A2 in the 7th ID at Ord what was almost brand new and was just wonderful to shoot. And then I went to a Reserve unit where I was issued a rickity old M-16A1 that I swear still had the red dust from Vietnam embedded in it, and jammed even after I cleaned it constantly.

    If we’re sending NG units with M-16s that are just as good at M-4s, albeit without the compactness, I wouldn’t have a problem with this issue.
    But if the units are going over there with weapons of questionable reliablity, then this is very serious.

  • (*ahem*)

    The M4, with its shorter barrel and collapsible stock, is a superior weapon for close-quarters engagements and such things as going through breached dividing walls and the narrow interior/exterior doorways common to inner-city residential construction. Think about this, all you M16 fans—a US soldier, who’s already a bit bigger than you average Baghdad doorway, bundles himself up in a heavy uniform, flak-vest, support equipment, a supply pack or two—and then gets to carry a weapon designed for the open fields of the freaking Mekong Delta?

    Guys I knew who did “tunnel-ratting” in Viet Nam always rejected the ’16 for their work. They needed stuff that they could maneuver in tunnels with—45s, 357s, even sawed-off double-barrel shotguns with the stocks reworked to look like pistol-grips—and the M16 just doesn’t cut it….

  • Maj. Gen. Harry M. Wyatt III, commander of the Oklahoma National Guard, told the NYT that one-third of his soldiers lacked the M-4 rifles preferred by active-duty soldiers and that there were also shortfalls in night vision goggles and other equipment. Capt. Christopher Heathscott, a spokesman for the Arkansas National Guard, said the state’s 39th Brigade Combat Team was 600 rifles short for its 3,500 soldiers and also lacked its full arsenal of mortars and howitzers.

    is there a link for these quotes?

  • And the M4 pulls double duty as an assault weapon where a gun like the HK MP5 is only suited for CQB.

    New Orange Math, if the typical month is four weeks, what is the name of the 13th month that rounds out the 52 weeks in a year? 🙂

  • New Orange Math, if the typical month is four weeks, what is the name of the 13th month that rounds out the 52 weeks in a year? — doubtful, @28

    It’s called “2 weeks training” and lasts 4 weeks. It’s all in the “new orange math” handbook. Also there, you’ll find that when, out of 12, there’s only one month which has 4 weeks, that’s what gets called “typical”; the other 11 are aberrations.

  • Steve,

    Good point. What I was getting at was that I didn’t want to see our guys go over with shitty weapons.

    I’m with taio’s earlier post on how it takes time to get all this equipment sent to the front, and I was just saying that as long as the M-16s the NG are using aren’t going to jam on them and get them killed, then they can take those until the M-4s are available.

    If a unit’s weapons aren’t suitable for combat (i.e. won’t work), then deployment not be allowed until they are properly equipped to fight and win. That’s why I think Murtha’s plan is the best-fucking-idea I have heard come out of Washington since the start of the war in Iraq.

  • Basically, the profit margin for the Cheney-industrial complex isn’t high enough when you’re supplying simple things like rifles and armor vehicles like Humvees. You have to be selling F-22s as “anti-terrorist weapons” before you get to the stratospheric profit levels our Republican “patriots” require before they’ll ramp up the production capability.

    23 years in the National Guard and obviously got dropped on his head often enough that he likes drinking George Bush’s piss and calling it kool-aid. A perfect example of what is meant by the old military term we used in Vietnam: “lifer moron.”

  • I spoke with Captain Heathscott mentioned in the NY Times article. He said they will have M4s (rather than M16A2s) before they deploy. He also mentioned that the other equipment will also be rounded out once they get their orders for deployment. He said they have the equipment they need right now for accomplish their training, and that the reason for the shortages mentioned in the Times’ article was that they had left that equipment in Iraq for the unit that replaced them after their last deployment.

  • If rifles aren’t such a big deal, then why did Gen. Wyatt make that comment?
    If Captain Heathscott says they will have the equipment they need, that’s good to hear. I apologize for questioning this whole rifle issue.

    Still, it seems kind of odd that they have to leave equipment in Iraq. I don’t ever recall us having to leave anything on our deployments, as the unit that took our place already had the stuff they needed. I think it’s pretty unsettling that here we are nearly four years after the Iraq invasion, and units have to rely on some other guy’s worn out stuff.

    And when does this equipment get to go through it’s maintenance? I’m not talking about soldiers filling out 2404s and doing cosmetic replacement work. Weapons have to be completely broken down, vehicle engines need to be pulled, and electronic gear needs to be taken apart. Do the forces in-country have the necessary units and resources to perform these task.

    And lastly, the fact that National Guard and Reserve units are having to shorten their deployment time to make up for troop shortages also sounds unsettling. And did I read correctly that one unit wasn’t expected to redeploy until 2010? Sounds good, until I ask “the Army expects to still be in Iraq by 2010?” Hopefully, the fighting will be over, and that would just be to deter any perceived Iranian agression.

    Or maybe not.

  • So, 2Manchu,

    You’re in favor of drowning our people in the newest, and best equipment. You’re in favor of doubling the number of troops, right?

    Or are you just another sophistic, lying, intellectually dishomnest lib?

    If not why are you working so hard to sound like one?

    Are you behind our people or not?

    Because all this hair splitting is UNDERmining them, and if you are who you say you are, you fucking well know that. So WTF is you problem?

  • News Shooter,

    Blow me, fuckwad.

    It warms my heart to know that I proudly served in the Army to ensure retarded monkeys can ramble on incoherently.

    Exactly what part of my last comment makes you think I’m not supporting our people? The part about getting the equipment they need, or the part about ensuring their equipment doesn’t go to shit? If you’re going to include me, you better include a big chunk of this country, too, becaus a lot of people are thinking that way.

    And doubling the troops levels would, what? Make the Iraqis forces even more dependant on US support? When are they going to be expected to ride without the training wheels?

    And do you support the plan to keep US troops there up to 2010? You apparently have no problem in continuing to send Americans into Iraq, risks be damned.

    And if demanding accountability for all the lives lost and treasure spent in Iraq “hairsplitting”, then you need to take the Kool-Aid i.v. out.

    See, we have this thing in the US called democracy. It has worked pretty well over the past 200 years, even in times of war. You should read up on it.

    What you are demanding is called totalitarianism, one of those ideologies that I joined the Army to protect America from. Absolute obedience towards the leader, with no dissent or questioning. Well, that’s not what we need in this country.
    If you are so hell-bent on proving me wrong, refute my comments from previous posts. Tell me exactly how I am wrong, without using the same tiresome talking points about “not supporting the troops” .

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