Round 1

Going into a presidential debate, even an early one with eight candidates each struggling to distinguish themselves from their rivals, there’s a temptation to think there will be a “winner.” Someone, at some point, is going to deliver a blow or share an insight that will be so impressive, he or she will rise above the field. It’s a fool’s errand, though, waiting for someone to say, “Senator, you’re no Jack Kennedy.”

With that in mind, last night’s Democratic presidential debate in South Carolina was relatively entertaining political theater, but little more. It seems safe to assume that the race for the nomination has not substantively changed at all — all of the candidates are pretty much where they were this time yesterday.

Indeed, if we stick with a boxing metaphor, the major candidates seemed to realize that it was far too early to throw any roundhouse punches, so they didn’t. Indeed, there were two sentences that stood out for me, not for their substance, but for their collegiality.

SEN. CLINTON: Well, I think what Barack said is right. I mean part of our challenge is to put together the political support throughout the country, particularly within the Republican party, to join with us to bring an end to this war….

SEN. OBAMA: Hillary mentioned earlier, this is going to be a change election; people are hungry for change. And the question is, who is going to be the most effective agent for change?

This was effectively the pugilists taking off their gloves and showing their top rival some respect. When it’s April, the top two candidates can afford to do this. It doesn’t make for intense drama, but neither of them actually want that anyway at this point.

Here are my synopses for each of the candidates (in alphabetical order):

Biden — I’ll admit from the outset that Biden probably isn’t my favorite candidate in the race (cough, cough, bankruptcy bill, cough), but he might have had the strongest performance of any of the eight last night. At a minimum, he delivered the very best answer. Host Brian Williams asked, “Senator Biden, words have in the past gotten you in trouble, words that were borrowed and words that some found hateful. An editorial in the Los Angles Times said, ‘In addition to his uncontrolled verbosity, Biden is a gaffe machine.’ Can you reassure voters in this country that you would have the discipline you would need on the world stage, Senator?” Biden, with a subtle smile, said, “Yes” — and didn’t utter another word. Good for him.

Biden hit all the high points, delivering solid answers on Iraq, education, and gun control. I’m still not going to vote for him, but Biden had a good night.

Clinton — I’ve heard some talk that Clinton came across as “stiff,” but I didn’t see it that way. She struck me as poised and extremely well prepared. On the war, she transitioned nicely from the past to the future: “I think the real question before us is, what do we do now?” I’m not sure what the expectations were for Clinton going into an event like this, but I think she handled herself nicely.

Dodd — Dodd, like Biden, probably didn’t go into the debate on everyone’s radar screen, but he’s another one who benefited from the format. (It’s a reminder that experienced senators who’ve debated on the Senate floor every day for a couple of decades know how to excel in a debate.) I wasn’t watching with a stop-clock, so this is just a hunch, but I got the sense that Dodd probably got the least amount of screen time of the eight candidates, but what he got he used well.

When asked if welfare recipients should have to take a drug test to receive government benefits, Dodd delivered a particularly good answer: “Well, not necessarily. I think the country gets uneasy about going around and testing us all the time. We’ve overtested in some cases already as it is. Frankly, I think you clearly have to have rules and regulations here, but going around and insisting upon it, you may have very people who need that help for their families and children. All of a sudden they may be addicts that need help and assistance. To deprive them of that because they have an illness, it seems to me, the wrong direction to be going in. Let’s be more respectful, let’s reach out to people, a bit more of that compassion we talk about all the time.” Solid.

Edwards — Because Edwards has already been through the process once, I think a lot of people probably expected the most out of him. He did fine, but if you listened closely, you noticed that he was the most willing to get a few digs in on his top rivals. Asked whether Clinton should apologize for her 2002 war vote, Edwards said, “I think that’s a question for the conscience of anybody who voted for this war. I mean, Senator Clinton and anyone else who voted for this war has to search themselves and decide whether they believe they’ve voted the right way; if so, they can support their vote. If they believe they didn’t, I think it’s important to be straightforward and honest.” Subtle but aggressive.

Later, on health care, Edwards said, “Rhetoric’s not enough. Highfalutin language is not enough.” He wasn’t looking at Obama, but I think the audience knew who his target was.

Gravel — Oh yes, Sen. Gravel. There are two distinct schools of thought on our friend from Alaska: 1) Gravel is a no-nonsense, tell-it-like-it-is curmudgeon who made the debate lively and entertaining; and 2) Gravel is an unhinged crank who looked kind of silly last night. I lean much closer to the latter view. I appreciated his levity, but he lashed out wildly at the rest of the Democratic field (they “frighten” him, he said) and insisted the United States has “no important enemies.” Gravel’s sole function seemed to be making the other candidates appear more presidential. Right now, the other candidates are no doubt wondering how to get Gravel uninvited to future debates.

Kucinich — Again, I didn’t have a stop watch, but Kucinich seemed to get the most airtime of the eight, which is odd, since few consider him a credible candidate for the nomination. On the whole, I found Kucinich quite articulate, but rather repetitive, denouncing “the idea of using war as a matter of policy” three times, according to my notes.

Obama — Obama probably entered the debate with the most questions surrounding him. After having to debate Alan Keyes in his 2004 race, was Obama prepared for the big time? Clearly, the answer is yes. Sixty-second responses to awkwardly-worded questions limit an orator’s ability to shine, but Obama’s responses were compelling and strong. He offered some specifics on health care, which took away one of the more common complaints from his critics, and when Gravel and Kucinich attacked him directly, it made Obama look better. I was particularly fond of his answer to a question about his biggest mistake: “There was a debate about Terri Schiavo, and a lot of us, including me, left the Senate with a bill that allowed Congress to intrude where it shouldn’t have. And I think I should have stayed in the Senate and fought more for making sure that families make those decisions and not bureaucrats and politicians.” Message: I won’t be timid about standing up for my beliefs and principles in the future.

Richardson — Richardson was doing fine, right up until Williams asked about his model Supreme Court justice. “It would be Justice Whizzer White,” Richardson said. Really? A guy who voted in the minority on Roe v. Wade? Who opposed Miranda? Richardson also said he’d end the war in Iraq in his first day in office. Really? How?

Debate analysis is a bit like beauty — it’s in the eye of the beholder. What’d you think?

I didn’t see the debate but Andrea Mitchell declared Hillary the winner. Based on her usual insightful analysis (see: Pelosi misreporting)…I assume this wasn’t the case.

  • Very cordial evening. Some great rhetoric, but over all George Bush was the topic of the night. -Kevo

  • Proud of Kucinich as usual. Nobody dares to raise their hands against Cheney; Dennis doesn’t care, not only is he the only man who stands up to Cheney, but he’s armed with a pocket constitution – may not be realistic, but you gotta love the ‘standing up for principle with no political calculation’ angle…

    Richardson’s answer on Gonzales was horrifying to me. Yeah, I support him because he’s Hispanic, but I’m honest in saying that I make judgements based on race. Pathetic.

  • My basic advice about the debates is, Kucinich isn’t trustworthy. I’ve felt for a while that he’s been doing things to screw us up but now it’s more clear. He’s going to run all the way as a Nader-type spoiler. He may say all the right things, but it’s just to attract support and he’s won’t pull out until and unless he start to look more shady / attract more resentment than it’s worth for messing up the bigger campaigns.

    Democrats should keep away from what he does.

  • I thought Dodd’s answer to the drug test question was really solid as well. I was also impressed with his answer about same-sex marriage, in spite of the fact that we disagree (he only supports civil unions), because as part of his answer he noted his two young daughters may “have a different sexual orientation than their parents.” I don’t believe I’ve ever heard a presidential candidate speak so plainly about the possibility of having a gay child, and as if it’s no big deal. He said it very casually. I was extremely impressed, mainly because it was clearly not contrived, not designed to impress anyone. It was just how he felt.

    Kucinich, I thought, had a nice moment with his pocket Constitution. I know some people think he’s silly, but he’s so earnestly idealistic, I can’t help but like him. There isn’t a mendacious or disingenuous bone in the guy’s body.

    Richardson was a bit of a let down for me, too. He kept numbering things! Rambling answers. Too eager. Of everyone on the stage, he struck me as the least certain of who he is as a candidate.

    I thought Edwards handled the very silly question about who his “moral leader” is very well.

  • I didn’t see it. Once again our media (here, on the West Coast) gave us the impression it would be broadcast 7-8:30. Without saying so, they were referring to EDT. When I tuned in a bunch of TeeVee hacks led by Tweetie were punditizing about a debate which was already over. After five minute of that I watched my previously taped Bill Moyer’s special on the selling of the Bush Crime Family’s Iraq Quagmire.

  • The Democratic candidate debate last night at South Carolina State was interesting and well-run. Questions were good, answers sometimes evasive but generally responsive, and no surprises, glitchs, or gaffes. Sort of no runs, hits, or errors.

    Barack, Hillary, and John Edwards did not lose any front runner status. The others also looked good and performed well but did not dent the existing order. The best response of the evening was Senator Joe Biden’s single word answer, “yes”, when asked if he could hold his proverbial verbosity in check.

    But what’s with senators from Alaska? Is there something in the cold water up there? We’ve often heard Senator Ted Stevens ranting and shouting “No”. Now, last night we heard former Alaska Senator Mike Gravel go off the charts in criticizing his fellow candidates and other targets. It is probably good that he made the other candidates seem moderate but I just wonder why some Alaska senators act like our crazy uncles.

    Homer http://www.altara.blogspot.com

  • For the most part, I agreed with (and appreciated) your analysis. It seemed that every time a question came to Hillary, she started off her answer by reminding everyone that she is a Senator from New York. Sheesh!
    I loved her answer about her biggest mistake: citing her vote to authorize the Iraq war. I thought it deftly covered her tail in light of people calling for her to renounce her vote.

    On the other hand, one of the last questions called for a hard hit against Bush and the Repugs (I think it was the one about why Republicans are viewed as better able to protect the country, which is not reflected in the polls) and she floundered around, then never really found a theme. It seemed to me she should have anticipated a question like that and had a ready answer prepared.

    Edwards always strikes me as having a great balance between idealism and pragmatism, so I have a soft spot in my heart for him.

    Gravel was a hoot, albeit a bit unhinged after the first few questions. Richardson struck me as pandering to the NRA, especially when he (gratuitously) commented that most gun owners are law-abiding. He also came across to me as trying too hard to prove that he was qualified.

  • “Message: I won’t be timid about standing up for my beliefs and principles in the future.”

    Nice message, but I would like to see him actually stand up and fight for something that isn’t politically safe before I throw any support or $$ his way.

  • I think what matters more to most people — since most people don’t actually watch these debates — is not so much who “won” the debate but who wins the debate analysis. If what was last night was representative then that would have to be Clinton, by a large margin. The Cable news talking heads of all stripes were fairly atitter over her performance.

  • I don’t have cable. Occasionally I wish I did, but in general I am glad I don’t.

    Are the debates that are on cable only going to be posted online somewhere?

  • Dennis doesn’t care, not only is he the only man who stands up to Cheney, but he’s armed with a pocket constitution…

    I have this mental image of Kucinich in a dark, run-down house holding out that pocket Constitution to fend off a fang barring and hissing Cheney as one would hold a cross to keep vampires at bay.

  • I watched the debate and overall came away impressed with the maturity of the candidates but also, somehow, there seemed to be a freshness, as in these weren’t people whose views I knew particularly well or how they would do. The truth is, we really only get to see sound bites of these people unless you can watch Cspan or actually hear them live. You just won’t get much more. So for what it’s worth (and I’m sure some will disagree with using a grading system), here are my grades for their performance last night – with the understanding that that’s what it really is:

    Biden A- I agree with CB that he might have had the strongest performance last night. He’s got a commanding presence and must love that Iraq is the main issue as the Chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Cmte and the only one (in either party) who has a legitimate political solution rather than simply saying we need one. I look at him as the Joe Theismann of this race: looks good, certainly knows his stuff, was a hotshot back in the ’80’s, but also is well aware that he looks good, knows his stuff, etc. I don’t think there’s any lack of ego with Biden. That said, he definitely has been vocal in his opposition to the war and to Bush, a lot more than others. I also think he had a great answer to biggest mistake: “overestimating the competence of the Bush Administration and underestimating the arrogance of it.”

    Clinton B- I thought she was decent, solid. Her voice definitely didn’t annoy me as it often does; Chris Matthews hit on that point that she sounded more modulated; Lord knows I don’t like to agree with Matthews, that douchebag. But a decent solid performance was probably all that Hillary really wanted. I did notice, as Olbermann pointed out, that she started referring to Obama as Barack and then he later returned the favor. I also wondered if that was prearranged. Not sure if I liked it or not. As an aside, after the debate, the dynamics of the group was interesting. She gave a “good friends” hug and cheek kiss to Biden but barely, just barely, shook hands with Edwards. Interesting. Overall, she’s still gotta be the frontrunner and I don’t think she hurt herself but the more charismatic Obama is/becomes, the more necessary it becomes for Hillary to step it up.

    Dodd B+ I agree with CB on this one, same as with Biden. He’s in that 2nd tier, but I think he did very well. I saw him on with Stehanopoulos on Sunday and liked him. He really did handle the drug testing question great. Even Mrs. Homer, who tolerates my political junkie-ness, liked that one. I think he came across as very experienced, calm and, well, presidential. Does he have a big enough personality for the role, probably not, but clearly THAT test has gotten us into trouble before. Probably would make a great president who would surround himself with good talented people – hmm, what a novel concept.

    Edwards B+ I think he came across as smart, cool and assured of his place as a front-runner. I thought he handled the ridiculous haircut question well – does anyone think that these people aren’t wealthy? – and got his points across. Nothing he said was particularly memorable, a slight downgrade, but while he was speaking, I remember liking him and I think he would be satisfied with that. I don’t hear the apology for the war vote as a dig at Hillary, although she (and others) may perceive it as such. I think that he really did search his conscience and realized that he f’ed up, that it was a bad vote, and that he thinks every politician should do that with every vote. This happens to have been an important vote, so it gets a lot of attention, and Hillary doesn’t appear to have done that, so that’s why it comes across as a dig. I also loved his pondered response about who is his moral leader – a silly question – but he thought about it and said, appropriately I thought, he doesn’t have a “leader” but that he looks to his faith, his wife and his father for guidance. This reminded me of Bush’s answer that Jesus Christ was his political role model. F’ing idiot.

    Gravel – Does a grade really matter? I tend to agree that he came across rather curmudgeonly, got in a few zingers. Perhaps by being so far to the left (left field?), he can make it clear that the rest of the candidates (except Kucinich) are fairly moderate Democrats. That said, he did say something that I have said before on this page – pass the bill and let the Republicans filibuster it. Let them get up there day after day after day and let the American people see exactly who it is that wants this war to be extended. The Dems have seemed to concede that the Republicans will filibuster but never make them actually do it. Maybe they wouldn’t, so the Dems would win. Maybe they would, in which case they are exposed. Back to Gravel, my final thought on him was exactly the same – I’ll bet they’re trying to figure out how to get this guy uninvited.

    Kucinich B I certainly hope he doesn’t try to pull a Nader-esque spoiler role. I think he ultimately wouldn’t, not sure why but I just think that’s the case. I feel bad that there’s no support for his Impeach Cheney bill but he whipped out that Constitution and I almost stood up and cheered. Isn’t that really what it’s all about and what so many of us have been railing against this Administration for so long about. Give Kucinich credit – he stands up for what he believes, politics be damned (well said Melissa @5).

    Obama B I actually thought he sounded a bit stilted and a little uncertain of what he was saying at points. He seemed to pick up steam and I gave him credit for his engagement with Kucinich which showed me that Obama is not all warm and fuzzy and can mix it up if needed. I thought his response about Terri Schiavo was interesting but not as clearly stated as I would have liked, sounded a bit wishy-washy to me. Over all though, I certainly don’t think he hurt himself, played it smart and came across well.

    Richardson C I think Richardson did the worst of them all. I agree with Melissa @5 again and Ohioan @3. I remain impressed with his record but WTF was up with the Hispanic comment. He seemed disorganized and long-winded. Another couple of performances like this and he won’t be around for long. I see him as a great pick for Secretary of State though and probably something he’s gunning for.

  • God I am so sick of people referring to political debates as if they were sporting events with ‘winners and losers’. The “knock out” the “good slap”, “points scored”, a “home run” a “sucker punch” etc, etc. I wish they would get rid of the whole reference of “winners and losers”. The idea is not to try to win something but to present points of view, to discuss varying opinions and policies. Disagreements and opposition does not imply winning and losing but this way of looking or rating it changes the intention of debate and discussions to one of beating an opponent, making the important idea one of a contest judged not by its substance but more by it’s performance. It’s just another way of dumbing down the whole process so instead of asking “what did so and so say”, we just ask “who won?”.

  • I really liked Gravel because he challenged the front runners especially the socalled “antiwar” Obama. He and Kucinich were the only truth tellers there in my opinion last night. We need some of that passion to get things changed.

  • I agree with Emily, Gravel was impressive. While understandable his anger was distracting from his message. Nevertheless he is correct on a lot of the issues. Aside from his anger, he made sense. He also has it right on foreign policy and terrorism. He appears to be in Kerry’s camp on how to handle terrorism.

    One of the few things I did like about Kerry is he understood combating terrorism takes intelligence and police work versus military action. Evidence shows Britain and other countries have been much more successful at catching “terrorists.” In contrast the US holds tens of thousands (approx. 38,000 – 40,000 in Iraq alone) of foreign nationals, most of whom are innocent. US-led wars are having the opposite intended effect, instead they are unnecessarily stirring-up a huge hornets nest notwithstanding.

    I agree with Homer, Obama did appear a bit unsure of himself at first, but once he got into the swing of things he came across smooth and sure of himself. He was poised, statesmanlike and presidential.

    Hillary’s demeanor was poised, gracious and stateswomanlike as well. But l do not trust her. And nothing she said last night changed that. If she is elected as president I think we’ll get more of the same. Meaning when it boils down to Iran, both Obama and Clinton played to the Israeli caucus last night. I hesitate to make a snap judgment, yet i will be keeping tabs on where they stand on foreign policy issues. So the jury is still out.

    I think if we bomb Iran it will be the biggest mistake we’ll ever make — worse than Iraq, much, much worse.

    Gravel is correct, Iran is not a threat. Think about it, even IF they acquired a nuclear weapon, does anyone believe they would commit instant suicide by attacking Israel or any other country? It is plausible to believe they want to level the playing field, and/or raise their world standing, and/or use it as a deterrence. Israel’s nuclear arsenal contains 300 – 400 bombs. At this stage the IAEA, says Iran does not “appear” to be making a bomb. Granted the jury is still out on this as well. But remember Iran has not attacked another country in over 200 years.

    Biden was asked the most questions. His idea of partitioning Iraq into 3 sections according to the Iraqi people (not government), Iraqi bloggers and Middle-East news sources, tell us that is not what they want. It would foment violence for a 1000 years. Citizens complain no one listens to their point of view. Furthermore Biden is too quick to anger. I thought his Yes answer was appropriate though.

    Edwards came off polished and more familiar with foreign policy — of course he’s been campaigning for the past six years. He’s improved his style, he’s more statesmanlike and appears comfortable. I would not be surprised if he surfaces as the eventual winner.

    Kuchinich, well… he was …. Kuchinich. Iam not impressed by him as a presidential contender. He does not have what it takes. I appreciate what he says, however, he just is not presidential-material. That’s not to say he doesn’t have some solid ideas, he does. He would be better suited at heading up a Department for Peace or assigned an ambassadorship or given a position as a diplomat of some sort. IMHO

    I could see Dodd as president and I liked where he stood on some of the issues, but other issues not so much. He is polished, maybe too much …

    Insofar as Richardson, he is not a great speaker. It was difficult to determine whether he was nervous or what. Evidently he is quite experienced with working and dealing with foreign leaders and has a lot of overseas experience. After all he just recently returned from No Korea with the remains of 3 or 4 US soldiers… something that has never happened before. I think he is talented and intelligent, but y’all are correct, but aside from not being clear in regards to the “Hispanic” remark correctly called for Gonzales’ resignation. He might turn out to be a fair and experienced leader, but it is doubtful he will be elected. He lacks charisma.

    All in all, being the first debate, everyone did well. No one stood out from the others per se. Biden did not make it into the first tier insofar as Iam concerned. Previously I believed he was forthcoming, but after watching him somewhat closely over the past few years I’ve since changed my mind.

    At this juncture I have no idea whom I will vote for.

    If elections were tomorrow either Obama or Edwards would get my vote. But then again, the jury is still out.

  • Homer Hewitt #7 – You are on to something. There’s a saying women who go up to Alaska have, given that men outnumber women in that state by a good amount, that “the odds are good but the goods are odd.” Gravel, and most especially Ted Stevens, are some of the oddities to be found up there.

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