Lieberman unsatisfied with two faltering wars, wants a third

June 10, 2007

Just when it seemed Joe Lieberman’s neocon qualities couldn’t get any more offensive, he manages to kick things up a notch.

This morning on CBS’s Face the Nation, Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-CT) strongly advocated preparing for a strike against Iran.

“I think we have to be prepared to take aggressive military action against the Iranians to stop them from killing Americans in Iraq,” Lieberman said. Host Bob Schieffer followed-up: “Let’s just stop right there. Because I think you probably made some news here, Senator Lieberman. You’re saying that if the Iranians don’t let up, that the United States should take military action?” “I am,” Lieberman responded.

Lieberman added that “if there’s any hope” of stopping Iran’s nuclear program, “we can’t just talk to them…. We’ve got to use our force and to me that would include taking military action.”

When John McCain sang about bombing Iran, he was kidding. Regrettably, Lieberman wasn’t.

About two weeks ago, Steve Clemons raised eyebrows with a report on the “race currently underway between different flanks of the administration to determine the future course of US-Iran policy.” As Clemons described it, Cheney’s team is actively circumventing the president’s team in order to instigate a U.S. conflict with Iran.

Clemons’ report was bolstered by comments from the IAEA’s Mohamed ElBaradei, who told BBC Radio last week that a war with Iran is a serious possibility because of “new crazies who say ‘let’s go and bomb Iran.’” He didn’t identify the “crazies,” but warned of those who “have extreme views and say the only solution is to impose your will by force.”

The “crazies” with “extreme views” unfortunately aren’t limited to the administration.

Why, why, why does Joe Lieberman keep being invited to these shows? Is it the sure knowledge that he will out-do his own ability to make profoundly stupid comments that are sure to get the network some hype?

And where is the flip side? Where is the person with actual brains for brains to look at Lieberman like the idiot he is and ask him what the hell he is talking about? Is there no one who will look this man in the eye and ask him if he is insane? Or ask him which current presidential candidate he is trying to attach himself to? Or if he’s just decided to end all the speculation and admit that he’s an embarrassment to Connecticut and to the nation?

Enough already with this guy – surely Bob Schieffer had an extra roll of duct tape he could have whipped out and slapped over Lieberman’s mouth – it’s the least he could have done to spare us all any more of this pandering sophist’s musings.

  • When you are a neo-con, it’s always Israel first. Neo-cons arrogantly believe that there is an endless supply of “farm boys,” “home boys,” and grown-up “anchor babies” to fight these wars. When will these interviewers follow up by asking if a draft and a tax increase is needed to fight these wars. With the Iraq debacle omnipresent, American are growing tired war; we’ve have enough!

  • Oh Joe Wussiman uber warrior. Where is your ugly ass in all this? It’s so easy to urge a war when you never went (America’s or Israel’s)

    Joe is the Wussior (sorry Patty Smythe)
    You yell, yell, yell away
    It’s your state that you betray
    Feeding on your neocon eyes
    I bet you’re not so civilized

    Well isn’t peace primitive?
    Another war that you wanna give
    Break out the tactical nukes
    And send young folks to another meat grinder
    Iran is the kill
    Your idea’s still wild

    Urging for the wars of hellfire
    Boom, boom!
    Joe is the wussior
    Well Joe is the wussior
    And facts to shit he’ll spin
    If we survive the wussior, the wussior

    You urge, urge, urge a war
    Your words sicken me physically
    Ignoring facts he’ll urge the fight
    As crazy takes another bite, oh
    Who’s the hunter, who’s the game?
    I sense the nuke with your name
    I want you denied a victory
    I don’t wanna hear your neocon bullshit
    You should be caged in a cell at the Hague

    Urging for the wars of hellfire
    Boom, boom!
    Joe is the wussior
    Well Joe is the wussior
    And facts to shit he’ll spin
    If we survive the wussior, the wussior
    Joe is the wussior

    Urging for the wars of hellfire
    Boom, boom!
    Joe is the wussior
    Well Joe is the wussior
    And facts to shit he’ll spin
    If we survive the wussior, the wussior

  • Joe Lieberphlegm (“I” for Israel, not independent democrat like Shiffer called him) also made a remark lumping Iranians into “the people that attacked us on 9/11”. Somebody should remind Lieberphlegm that the Sunni Saudis that attacked us on 9/11 are not the same as Iranians which are Shia. Facts tend to get in the way of Republicancer arguments. These idiots are like volcanoes that generate their own weather in that they generate their own reality and eventually are more destructive than volcanoes. The problems with this is that too many Americans are actually dumb enough to believe this bullshit and the media is bought and paid for by the corporations and won’t call these criminal politicians on their lies. Republicancers are despicable in my opinion, but at least they acknowledge what they are. Lieberphlegm is even worse because he pretends to be a democrat. How many times has he voted with the Dems like he said he would? Wasn’t he the one that proposed the bill to Congress to support going into Iraq for his kissing mate Shrub?

  • Joe Lieberphlegm …. also made a remark lumping Iranians into “the people that attacked us on 9/11

    Why not? Hell, the same pick-and-roll worked with the Iraqis, right?

  • When are these people going to be called down on this war rhetoric by the 80% of Americans who oppose them on these so called public news shows. The country is already up in arms over Iraq and then comes Jerusalem Joe spouting this “attack Iran” crap as if his opinion matters or should even be heard.

    “Hello world, here comes America’s crazies spouting insanity that neither I nor most of America endorse but our news media feels compelled to allow them TV face time to let them pretend they represent some of us. Don’t listen. Our news media has no integrity left but they don’t represent America.”

    It won’t work mister president. Trying to prepare us for an Iran attack won’t get any support just because you get a number of colleagues talking about it in the press first. There is no reason or excuse for that type of action and we know this in spite of your “supported” propaganda.

    Jerusalem Joe must go. Jerusalem Joe must go.

  • Open letter to Joe Lieberman

    Dear Joe,

    Before I sign on to war with Iran, I need to know that things are going well in Iraq.

    So Joe… I need you to go to McCain’s Baghdad market for me…
    No Black Hawks.
    No flak jackets.
    No troops.
    Just you Joe… shopping for carpets.
    And yes, you can even use dollars instead of shekels.

    Once you’ve proved to me Joe… that things are going just great there:
    I will sign on for let you blow up Iranians until your heart is satisfied.
    But not a moment before Joe.
    Not a moment before…

    So Joe… when do you go?

  • Iran’s nuclear plant constructed 30yrs ago has yet to provide a single kilowatt of power but maybe one day. They are a minimum of 10yrs from being able to even provide nuclear material to make the grade necessary for a weapon. All members in the region of Iraq are providing weapons to Iraq’s insurgents- one side or the other but none of the “governments” are involved so what is wrong with Jerusalem Joe and why is he spouting such uninformed idiocy over the air waves?

    His stupidity is embarrassing so why doesn’t it embarrass Joe….because he’s an eager bought and paid for Israeli neo-con who has lost all credibility but has such a huge ego that he needs attention constantly to feel important. Just pathetic.

  • As am American Jew, I am insensed that Joe Lieberman is in the Senate (or any other part of Public Life, come to that!).

    I used to get mad when I would see people on “liberal” blogs, painting him as a “controlled by Israel”, like all Jewish “neo-cons.
    The thinly-veiled anti-semitism, as reflected in many of the letters above mine, infuriated me. And, still does, actually.

    But, then I realised that Lieberman IS outside the mainstream of Jewish-American life. Most of us DO NOT want a war with Iran or an attack on the nuclear stations there. Most of us are smart enough to know that Bush’s (and Lieberman’s) war mongering has made Israel unsafe. As well as, of course, screwed up our own country beyond recognition.

    So, all you posters above, please know that not all Jews are behind Lieberman’s blowhard rhetoric. Certainly none of the other Jewish members of Congress (both in House and Senate seats) make anywhere near the case that Lieberman and the other neo-cons do for war.

  • Darth Vader had a Death Star. All we get from Darth Lieberman is a “Death Whiffle-ball.” A hard, unfeeling kind of thing that’s got more holes than a wheel of Swiss cheese, and the inside is full of nothing but empty space. It’s clear that someone has been tampering around in the evil dungeon laboratory at nights; we’ve got this FrankenLieber thing stomping around the Sunday Morning talk shows with his guttural “mah-wah-neh-blah-neh-wee-bleah” rubbish.

    The real danger with all of this babble is that the bastages might actually do it—in which case, we need to kiss our entire land force in Iraq and Afghanistan goodbye. We’ll probably lose a couple of carriers as well, numerous other ships—and then we’ll nuke those oilfields until they glow in the dark.

    Care to take a guess at the price for a gallon of gasoline the day after we irradiate the entire Persian Gulf petroleum region? How about the price of electricity, once we have to start converting coal into a petroleum substitute? Let’s talk plastics and polymers. Clothing and shoes. Heating fuel. Synthetics. Microprocessors, flatscreens, and keyboards. Pharmaceuticals.

    But hey—I was a Boy Scout forty years ago, when they still taught low-tech communications technologies like Semaphore and Morse. I’ll start stocking up on firewood, and I’ll send you a daily smoke signal….

  • Phoebes, I don’t agree with Israel’s policies, but I don’t want to see them attacked either. I have a problem with a US politician that does not put the best interests of his country and region of his country he was elected to represent first. If Lieberphlegm acted as a spokesman for Italy, France or another country I would be raising hell too. Getting the US involved in another war is definitely not in the US’s best interest. Who’s interest is Lieberphlegm looking out for? In my opinion, which has been wrong frequently, Connecticutt has become the New Texass of the North East for putting Lieberphlegm back in the Senate. You used the phrased, “thinly-veiled anti-semitism” to describe comments above yours. There seems to be plenty of evidence Lieberphlegm has questionable loyalty to the US. So because Lieberphlegm’s loyalty to Israel is pointed out, our remarks are anti-semitic? Phoebes, please explain Lieberphlegm’s motive for his attack on Lamont Lieberman questions Lamont’s committment to Israel, during the ’06 election. Suddenly, even Shrub’s misadministration is acknowledging the potential usefulness of the Baker-Hamilton report, but guess which senator was among the first to dismiss it and where he was when he did it? Lieberphlegm chose his loyalties, I didn’t. Are we supposed to avoid talking about it for fear of being called an anti-semite for mentioning it?

  • Folks, the motivation behind everything that Mr. Cheney does is as transparent as fine crystal–MONEY.
    I think that we can all agree that:
    a) Mr. Cheney has made tens of millions of dollars from no-bid Halliburton contracts and the run-up in the price of oil since the invasion of Iraq,
    b) Mr. Cheney’s energy-industry buddies have made many, many more millions from higher oil prices due almost entirely to the pot-stirring in Iraq,
    c) those buddies no doubt have promised Mr. Cheney and his handpuppet many more millions of dollars in under-the-table boodle for their “services” (if not now, then in 2009), and
    d) many billions more can be extorted from us at the gas pump by the Enron-type wiseguys if the pot is stirred further by bombing Iranian infrastructure and slinging missiles through the Strait of Hormuz.
    People, Lieberboy is a dupe. If you want to understand why an attack on Iran is more than likely in the next 18 months, FOLLOW THE MONEY!

  • So, could we get Joltin’ Joe to explain how stopping Iran from killing Americans in Iraq impedes their nuclear development? Since I live in the consensus reality, the logic isn’t clear to me. Aren’t those separate issues, the involvement in Iraq and the nuclear development?

    And how, exactly, does conventional military action against them in Iraq give them an incentive to cease or delay nuclear development, rather than speed it up? Just on the off chance they aren’t lying about wanting nukes for defense, wouldn’t having our military actively attack them be the wrong idea?

    In fact, has there been any evidence that the Iranians ever respond well to military force? Is there any reason to believe that attacking them would get us what we want? Bueller?

    Finally, given the way our forces have been stretched by multiple deployments in Bush’s Folly, I have to say to Joe’s desire to attack Iran: “Fine, Joe. You and what army?”

  • Even if Lily-Liver’s passion for bombing Iran can be explained by his (however mistaken and misplaced) allegiance to Israel, how do you explain Cheney’s? I think BJ, @12 is much more on the mark — follow the money, or “cui bono?” as the lawyers like to say.

    Recently, I have also began to wonder whether the idea of waging wars — on someone else’s money and blood, while remaining safe personally — doesn’t serve as some sort of aphrodisiac for these guys.

    Lily-Liver Joe and Dead Eye Dick, while not yet in te doddering idiot age bracket ,are at the age where, if they hadn’t been in politics, they’d be retired and bugging only their families, at home. When they went for their medical appointments, nurses would treat them like half-witted children (speaking loudly, clearly and with fake cheer)…

    But here they are, being taken seriously and with deference. Must be exciting and irresistible to push and see how far they can go, unchecked…

  • tko, thanks for your reply to my post. What I was trying to say was that I agree with you about Lieberman and his distorted realities (and, no, I don’t want Israel bombed, either!) and that MOST American Jews feel a deep repulsion towards Lieberman and the other neo-cons (most of whom, regretably, are Jewish).

    It’s a real problem in the Jewish community – how much undying support is Israel due? Part of the problem is that the hard-liners have grabbed power in the Israeli government AND, in six years in office, the Bush government has not done much in the way of Mid-east peace talks. The previous administrations (even Republican ones) have at least kept the advisaries “talking”.
    No such on-going peace talks – that’s one of the shames of the Bush administration.

  • Libra: I don’t think it’s as simple a question as “who stands to make money from this?” Frankly, the Bushes and the Cheneys are both incredibly wealthy families.. Dick Cheney is a rather old man without many years left to live; I don’t know if he’s really consumed with money, seeing as he already has many millions.

    I think money plays a role in that he is using the wealth of the US to grease the tracks of his over-arching plan through installing politically/ideologically friendly corporations/organizations as agents of his warmongering. It’s about control. The question is: *what* is Dick Cheney’s end game? What is his goal? Does he sincerely believe in Christian escatology, or is he simply (and I mean this very sincerely) not fully rational? I don’t think simple lust for money explains all this effort, when there are many easier ways to steal substantial sums.

  • Re: differences between Shia and Sunnis

    I had a class as an undergraduate (which actually wasn’t that long a time ago) about the Middle East, not because of any special interest, but just because it was topical to current events, and we studied Muslim history in some detail. I can vouch that the religious differences between Shia and Sunnis are extensive and quite significant. They’re about as different as Mormonism and Catholicism. Basically, the Shias believe that Muhammad’s line of descendants can be traced a few hundred years later than the Sunnis do. Also I think they have different beliefs about people being born to fulfill prophecies or pick up Muhammad’s work where he left off. This is all without refreshing my memory at all, just off the top of my head, but I’m sure Wikipedia or a knowledgeable person would tell you something that would sound pretty similar. Because of the differences in doctrine, holy sites for Shias and Sunnis are very different. Shias have a few different very holy cities connected to historical Shia holy figures that, because of the difference in lineage treated as ascribable to Mohammad, just don’t have the same significance at all in Sunni religion. So what might be an especially holy mosque for a Shia might, for a Sunni be, I guess, at least a mistake or even sacriligious.

  • Tim P., I do not really think about all these guys’ motivations that much, but I think it’s really simplistic to discount a rich capitalist’s interest in money because he’s already rich and old. On the contrary, I think it’s hard to understand the actions of a lot of magnates / extremely wealthy directors of corporations or industry without recognizing that sort of avariciously amssing sums of money without regard to what else it costs or what it’s going to be worth to them is sort of a value these people have been socialized with among their social class. It doesn’t have to make sense for a blue collar guy, or even a middle class or petty rich person, because these guys are nothing like blue collar guys or other more common people, and of course we shouldn’t expect them to act like or think like other people.

  • There certainly are plenty or really rich people who really chase after money really hard a long time after they’ve got what one of us might consider more than enough.

  • Swan: I understand what you’re saying, but it seems unlikely that Dick Cheney, had he remained in private business, would not have made still more money there than through any surreptitiously obtained funds he’s making now. I don’t think anyone aspires to be president out of a desire for money as an end – power, influence, domination, subjugation perhaps, but there are far easier ways to make greater sums of money, such as managing multinational corporations. If anything is simplistic, it’s assuming that there is only one factor motivating him; perhaps money is a part of it, but I doubt it’s his single over-riding obsession.

  • Tim, I have to differ with you. Call it money/power if you want, but it’s unrealistic to assume that humans are so rational that there’s some limit at which amassing enough money/influence is enough. People are psychological, not just rational, and the psychological influences a lot.

    Just to follow up a little on my comment at 18- I don’t know how much this influences, or how much the difference between Shia and Sunni separates them as a practical matter- in terms of getting along with each other and enmity. It may be that the confrontations between Sunni and Shia today are more political than religious, and that the political groups happen to fall along religious lines because of history. I remember when I was a kid, it used to piss me off when the conflict in Northern Ireland was described as a religious conflict, and it struck me as spin. I think I could basically guarantee you that the IRA men, the British soldiers, and the Protestant militiamen up there, down to a man, saw what they were engaging in a conflict of loyalty to Britain or to Ireland, and not a conflict over whether it was right or not to be loyal to Rome and take Eucharist from a priest. Those who were loyal to Britain were those who had more connections to Britain- they tended to have served in the British military and stuff like that- so Protestant affiliation was more an incident of being more closely associated with Britain, rather than a reason to side with Britain against the Irish nationalists. So, Sunnis might not be very offended by Shia religious practices, for all I know. But the Shia religion is significantly different from the Sunni- it’s like the Shias have an additional story and additional saints- and the Shia tend to be ethnically different from the Sunnis. Arabs traditionally are Sunnis, but Shias (who are primarily located in Iran) are mostly Persians, not Arabs.

    So my point was just that Shia and Sunnis are not marginally different, like how some Protestant denominations differ from each other- there’s a more general ethnic and doctrinal difference, like the difference between Protestants in general and Catholics. I think the comparison of Mormons and Catholics is the best anaolgy because it encompasses both some difference in ethnicity and a significant difference in doctrine.

  • Shorter me: The combatants in the Northern Ireland conflict, members of ideologically opposed religions, were, surprisingly enough, not fighting over religion. Could it be the same with warring Sunni and Shia factions in Iraq (and more broadly)? It seems to be the case, and at least a big part of the conflict is just over power- the difference in religion is incidental.

    A similar example, more close to home: WASP Americans hated Irish immigrants in the 1800’s not because they were Catholic (or not just because they were Catholic) but primarily because they were funny-talking foreigners, competing for resources, political influence, etc.

  • there are a lot of right-wing shmucks in this vale of tears, but the one who most makes you want to punch him in the nose is joe lieberman.

  • From phoebes:

    “ko, thanks for your reply to my post. What I was trying to say was that I agree with you about Lieberman and his distorted realities (and, no, I don’t want Israel bombed, either!) and that MOST American Jews feel a deep repulsion towards Lieberman and the other neo-cons (most of whom, regretably, are Jewish).

    It’s a real problem in the Jewish community – how much undying support is Israel due? Part of the problem is that the hard-liners have grabbed power in the Israeli government AND, in six years in office, the Bush government has not done much in the way of Mid-east peace talks. The previous administrations (even Republican ones) have at least kept the advisaries “talking”.
    No such on-going peace talks – that’s one of the shames of the Bush administration.”

    Thank you, phoebes, for your comments. I want to apologize to anyone Jewish who may have been offended by any comments I’ve made in the past which sounded anti-semitic.

    I am not anti-semitic, but my country comes before anything else and right now it is in the toilet. The people who have led us into our current debacle, whether they be Christain, Jewish, or Eskimos, should be shot, IMO.

  • Ann asks:

    “Why, why, why does Joe Lieberman keep being invited to these shows? Is it the sure knowledge that he will out-do his own ability to make profoundly stupid comments that are sure to get the network some hype?”

    No, it’s because AIPAC and the War Lobby want to move the Overton window on the latest crazy-ass neocon idea. If enough “reasonable” people talk like crazy bastards on TeeVee, a lot of regular folks will start to wonder if their latest Really Bad Idea isn’t worth taking a look at, and others, who already think it’s an OK idea, will say “See? Senators agree with me!”

    I sure hope America has seen enough neocons to recognize what they are, and how dangerous they are.

  • republicansscareme, thanks for your comments.

    I agree with you fully about OUR country, OUR country, this country, the one we live in, the US, has to be our major concern.

    I can care about Israel only after I care about the US. I think you’ll find that most American Jews are the same way.

  • I’m glad to have inspired some thoughtful commentary on the possible (likely?) role of greed as a driving force behind the ongoing disaster in Iraq and the pending greater miscalculation about to be made vis-a-vis Iran.

    As Swan (#22) pointed out, lust for power and money commonly are inextricably intertwined.

    Perhaps reviewing the “Seven Deadly Sins” would be informative for better understanding the motivations the current crowd occupying the White House and neighboring environs.

    Those sins are as follows: 1) Luxuria (extravagance, later lust), 2) Gula (gluttony), 3) Avaritia (greed), 4) Acedia (sloth), 5) Ira (wrath), 6) Invidia (envy), and 7) Superbia (pride).

    All of the preceding debaucheries have been self-righteously paraded by the metric ton on a nearly daily basis since January 2001. Perhaps even more disturbing is the self-portrayal of these “sinners” as Christians. The Jesus Christ that I’ve read about in the Bible must be more than a tiny bit POd by now from observing these proud, greedy, and vindictive Pharisees parading around under His banner. The Cheney crowd would embarrass the money changers in the Temple with their unbridled hypocrisy.

    In closing, the story this morning in the Jerusalem Post about a plan for blockading Iranian oil shipments nicely validates my original post (#12) about the pending actions in Iran being primarily about more money for Cheney, his handpuppet, and their energy industry cronies.

    Can we all now give a big West Texas “Yee Haw” for $150/bbl oil?

  • Senator Joseph Lieberman’s voting record on military issues can be found at: Senator Joseph Lieberman’s Voting Record

    Senator Joseph Lieberman’s history of speeches on Iran can be found at: Senator Joseph Lieberman’s Record of Speeches

    Senator Joseph Lieberman’s ratings from special interest groups on military issues can be found at: Senator Joseph Lieberman’s Interest Group Ratings

    For more information on Senator Joseph Lieberman’s position on military issues please visit Project Vote Smart or call our hotline at 1-888-VOTE-SMART.

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