National healthcare = Terrorism

Conservatives want Americans to fear a national health care system. Conservatives also want Americans to fear Muslims. What better way to demagogue two birds with one stone than to connect the two in a transparently ridiculous discussion on Fox News?

[Yesterday] on Fox News’s Your World With Neil Cavuto, National Review Online columnist Jerry Bowyer attacked Michael Moore’s movie SiCKO and its positive portrayal of the health care in countries such as Britain and France. He argued that national health care systems are breeding grounds for terrorists because they are “bureaucratic.” “I think the terrorists have shown over and over again … they’re very good at gaming the system with bureaucracies,” said Bowyer.

Just when I thought I’d seen it all, Fox News manages to surprise me.

The chyron, by the way, told viewers during the segment, “National Healthcare: Breeding Ground For Terror?” It was in all caps, and it wasn’t trying to be funny.

Indeed, Bowyer added, “[I]f one of your guys is a jihadist, if one of your doctors is spending all the time online reading Osama bin Laden fatwas, someone’s going to notice that. But the National Health Service is more like the post office, you know there’s a lot of anonymity, it’s easy to hide in the bureaucracy.”

To which Fox News personality Cavuto responded, “The fact that we may be looking to go this way in the United States, you’re saying one of the potential consequences — without judging national health care one way or the other — is that this could happen. We have to be at least aware of the distinct possibility that in such a system, we would have to recruit outside doctors, and where we’re getting the most of them these days seems to be from the Muslim world.”

Of course, this was not to “judge” the merits of a national health-care plan; it was just Cavuto’s way of alerting FNC viewers that advocates of such a plan are undermining national security by inviting terrorists into the country. That is not, of course, a value judgment on Cavuto’s part. Fair and balanced, you know.

I’d just add that this seems to be a new talking point, particularly this week, among unhinged conservatives who no longer worry about appearing credible. National Review’s Iain Murray argued a couple of days ago:

Just a few years ago, the proportion of foreign trained doctors in the NHS was 25 percent. It is also pertinent to note that foreign-trained doctors are substantially more likely to be charged with serious professional misconduct. The high proportion of foreign physicians is indeed down to a lack of British Doctors – not just from lack of students, but also because many trained Doctors choose to pursue other careers. Life in the NHS is not a rewarding experience. A family member of mine who is so highly regarded as a Doctor that she has won a prize carrying a substantial annual stipend for the rest of her life has withdrawn from clinical treatment because she was constantly asked to make life-or-death decisions based on the rationing of resources (you won’t hear that story in Sicko). The socialization of medicine in the UK is responsible for a lot of problems. The importation of terrorists is just one of them.

So let this be a lesson to all of us. National health care may offer better care to more people for less money, but that won’t matter because your doctor will be an al Qaeda mole.

We’ve been warned.

Extended proof of a need for a higher level of taxation via the estate tax.
When nutcases like Richard Mellon Scaife can control billions of dollars, bad things happen to the rest of us in the country.
Why am I talking about Scaife? Follow the money trail of Jerry Bowyer.

  • I was reading an article about how a lot of the foreign nurses that we hire are from the Philipinnes; it also spoke on how well they were doing and the positive impact they were having on our society.

    I guess the ideal of bringing people with top notch potential to America steams these “Culture Warriors”.

  • This is just so over the top, so unhinged, it is a case study in clinical insanity.

    Obviously it is an attempt to control people, just like all the other garbage on Alhurrah America (Faux News) and interfaces nicely with the threats and psychological attacks of the NeoCon 9/11 Hit Squad led by Dick&Bush.

    But, unfortunately, it sells to the 28% Reich Wing Authoritarian sub-humans here in Amerikkka.

  • Nothing is more bureaucratic than the US Healthcare system where from what I’ve seen it is all hurry up and wait until you need money from the HMO to pay for said bills then it becomes hurry up and die. I’ve never had my doc tell anyone I know they had to wait till the HMO decided whether or not they will pay for whatever.

    Waiting lists, well, can’t be helped. If a lot of folks need heart surgery, well, not much one can do. I suspect that the US’s vaunted “gold” standard low time wait lists for orthopedic and heart surgeries are because not many people can afford them (or their HMOs won’t pay for’em) unlike in evil Socialized Terrorism medicine land where everyone has a chance regardless of income or status.

    Considering what a few of my American friends have gone thru, well, I’m not surprised that people don’t inflict violence on HMOs and their office flunkies.

  • Umm. I guess no one has told these dipshits that the US regularly, some might say aggressively, recruits nurses from other countries. And please, no one inform them that we already have large numbers of foreign doctors. They might have some sort of medical crisis, be too afraid to go to the ER and … oh … Heh.

    Indeed, Bowyer added, “[I]f one of your guys is a jihadist, if one of your doctors is spending all the time online reading Osama bin Laden fatwas, someone’s going to notice that.

    Who is going to notice? How are they going to notice? Why are these cretins allowed to waste good oxygen with this crap?

    But hey. If the wealthy folks who make up the majority of Fux News viewers want to keep shelling out $$ for private insurance, no one’s going to stop them.

    we would have to recruit outside doctors, and where we’re getting the most of them these days seems to be from the Muslim world.

    Muslim world? Really? I wonder where in the universe one finds Muslim World. Is it anywhere near Buddhist World? And if the Muslims have some sort of FTL drive that allows them to travel from their world to ours, and Muslim = Blood Thirsty Killerzzz!!! aren’t we already pretty much fucked?

  • Let’s just hit them back.

    Fox News is a foreign-owned entity.
    Fox News negotiates with terrorists.
    Fox News is a bureaucracy.
    Fox News is a breeding ground for terror.
    Fox News is lying to Americans.
    Fox News is an enemy of the state.

    Fox News = Terrorism.

  • tAiO – (Re #5) –
    I think Muslim World is somewhere along Interstate 4, close to Orlando. Yeah, Buddist World is close by, but I hear that Muslim World is the attraction to see if you are a horror movie fan.

  • Now it all makes sense to me. If bureaucracy, in and of itself, creates a haven for terrorists then it’s clear that FEMA’s actions in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina was actually keeping us safe from terrorists! And what about the fledgling government in Iraq? Why, if they’re able to pull themselves together and actually become functional, that would necessarily make us less safe from terrorists!

  • The folks at Fox are some pretty talented fiction writers. But they should stick to writing schlocky novels to read on a beach.

    Their primary error is assuming that single payer healthcare means nationalizing the entire healthcare system. False. Single payer is about reforming the insurance end of the industry only.

    Second, Bowyer’s argument that a single payer system will drive doctors from the field is wrong. It may actually hep retain physicians. I encourage anyone to talk to a freshly minted family practice physician who joined an established practice. They have super high student loan rates to repay, the work the most on-call shifts ans their pay sucks. I have met plenty of good doctors who questioned why the got a degree after seeing what their real woking conditions would be like. Doctors in it for the money go into higher paying specialties like orthopaedics or plastic surgery than want to go into less financially rewading sectors like pediatrics and family practice.

    Third, if terrorists are so good at gaming bureaucracies, why all they all in places like Afghanistan, Somalia and Pakistan, places with barely functioning governments?

    Fox: just making sh*t up as they go.

  • i first became aware of neil cavuto about 20 years ago, when he was a cub reporter on a PBS program called “nightly business report.” he seemed like a perfectly pleasant type, which just goes to show how little we can judge these things.

  • If you go over to TPM, they have a link to a 2003 TBogg post about Jerry Bowyer that exposes him as a paid-for shill for Scaife. Surprise surprise.

  • Stunning. My question is, are these people as paranoid and cowardly as they appear to be? Do they cower in fear, afraid that a terrorist boogeymasn is lurking around the corner, under their bed?!?

    If not, then what is the REAL reason they continue to prey on Americans, using fear as a bludgeon against our own citizenry?

  • Just when you thought Fox “news” had run out of self-parody material, they find another rich vein and dig it with gusto. Next they’ll be telling us that having a national highway system aids and abets the terrorists, because they let the terrorists move about our country freely. LOOK, OVER THERE, a brown person driving a gasoline tanker!!! OMFG!!!

    Idiots.

    citizen pain asks a good question: what is the REAL reason [“conservatives”] continue to prey on Americans, using fear as a bludgeon against our own citizenry?

    The “conservative” base lets their masters prey on us all (and fail to realize that this is happening) because their logic circuits have been burned away. Their masters prey on us because they have no ethical restraints and they want more money and/or power.

    I highly recommend Al Gore’s latest book The Assault On Reason, it really goes a long way to explain why we are where we are. He also prescribes some very doable solutions, and as a matter of fact we are doing one of them right now.

  • The Revolution will not be televised…at least not on FAUX NEWS! It is an outrage – take folks to see SICKO …tell everyone! Its a crying shame folks have insurance (in case $#!+ happens as Chris Rock would say) and you have no protection! I would rather pay my health care premiums to a system that could work better than the one that doesn’t now!

  • I think what got Fox’s wind up and got them to link national health to terrorism is the fact that of the 8 arrested in UK in the recent sequence of bombing plots (the two Mercedeses in London and the Jeep in Glasgow), 7 were doctors and the 8th — wife of one of them — was also in health care (lab technician maybe? Can’t remember)

    I must say that’s got *my* wind up also, though I don’t see a cause and effect situation between nationalised healthcare and terrorism. But the story is chilling. These are not some marginalised, uneducated youths who are the natural fodder for jihadism, being easy to bamboozle and inflame. These are highly educated members of middle class. That’s one aspect.

    The other is that they’re *doctors*. Like all other doctors, they must have sworn the Hippocratic oath — first, do no harm. We have doctors refusing to participate in executions on that basis. We have a big hoo-hah about Kevorkian’s interpretation. Yet, here, you have 7 of them happily setting up to do the most damage they can think of, and to innocent, civilian population. It *is* a scary thought…

  • Libra –
    While I understand concerns about the UK plots being associate with doctors (lab tech etc)…I think it is travesty to equate the issues of rogue terrorist with a national health care plan…what is a scary thought is that working people pay insurance premiums and expect to get quality care…doctors and insurance folks get paid more keeping costs down not quality up…we need to be aware of what terror is… its not just some folks who will bomb innocent people…it is also the folks that would deny innocent folks the vital care they need, desire, and pay for…things have gotta change from the profit line or we are all in trouble.

    PS Osama was educated here in the states…

  • I am almost certainly wasting my time here, but here goes.

    I don’t work for Dick Scaife.

    I wasn’t attacking Sicko, I haven’t seen it and have no opinion on it.

    I’m neither stupid, nor cowardly, nor sub-human.

    National heath care systems have had consistent doctor shortage problems, especially the UK. They import more foreign docs than anybody in the world. Quite a few come from radicalized Muslim nations. It’s a fact, deal with it. It’s a weakness of NHS that should be openly discussed, not screeched out of the debate.

    A significant portion of you people are just flat-out, round-the-bend nuts and vicious towards people who make arguments which are inconvenient to you. To this group I say, don’t send me any email. Sell crazy someplace else. We’re all stocked up here.

    Some of you might have a glimmer of reason. I’d be glad to hear from you.

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