Going nuclear on Obama

It’s certainly not my intention to defend Barack Obama’s approach to foreign policy every day, but this latest flap is just odd.

Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton drew another distinction between herself and Sen. Barack Obama yesterday, refusing to rule out the use of nuclear weapons against Osama bin Laden or other terrorists in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Clinton’s comments came in response to Obama’s remarks earlier in the day that nuclear weapons are “not on the table” in dealing with ungoverned territories in the two countries, and they continued a steady tug of war among the Democratic presidential candidates over foreign policy.

The AP asked Obama whether there was any circumstance in which he would be prepared or willing to use nuclear weapons in Afghanistan and Pakistan to defeat terrorism and bin Laden. The senator responded, “I think it would be a profound mistake for us to use nuclear weapons in any circumstance” in Afghanistan or Pakistan.

His critics pounced, attacking Obama for having taken the nuclear deterrent off the table. “Presidents since the Cold War have used nuclear deterrents to keep the peace, and I don’t believe any president should make blanket statements with the regard to use or nonuse,” Clinton said.

Except that’s not what Obama said. He said he wouldn’t use nukes against al Qaeda. Of course he wouldn’t. No one would. The fact that this even became a major media dust-up yesterday is bizarre.

It started with a dumb question, but grew in earnest when an initial AP report quoted Obama saying he wouldn’t use nuclear weapons ‘in any circumstance,” without noting the context of the question or the answer. It made it appear that Obama would remove the nuclear deterrent entirely, against any potential enemy, anywhere. The mistaken media report made its way around the political world while the truth was still getting its pants on.

Indeed, Obama’s response to the question shouldn’t have even been noteworthy.

Michael O’Hanlon, a Brookings Institution scholar, said Obama “clearly gave the right answer.”

“He’s certainly right to say you would never use a nuclear weapon to get Osama bin Laden,” he said. He said that if intelligence officials were able to locate bin Laden with the precision required for a nuclear attack, they would also be able to catch or kill him by more conventional means that would not signal to the world that using nuclear force is acceptable.

The Obama campaign was still responding to the uproar late in the afternoon. “If we had actionable intelligence about the existence of high-level al-Qaeda targets like Osama bin Laden, Senator Obama would act and is confident that conventional means would be sufficient to take the target down,” said Bill Burton, a campaign spokesman. “Frankly we’re surprised that others would disagree.”

As am I. Would Obama’s Democratic rivals, some of whom were anxious to go after him yesterday, seriously consider a policy of using nuclear weapons to kill groups of terrorists in Afghanistan or Pakistan? If not, what are we even talking about here?

This week, Obama has been slammed, repeatedly, as a result of sloppy reporting. Did Obama suggest he would invade Pakistan? Of course not, but you probably heard several reports saying he did. Did Obama suggest he would never consider a nuclear response to any enemy, under any circumstances? Of course not, but that was the lead political story throughout much of the political world yesterday afternoon.

This isn’t necessarily about Obama; this is about Democratic candidates getting slammed by unfair coverage. It happened to Gore, it happened to Kerry, and now it’s happening to the top tier of the Democratic field. There’s no excuse for it.

Clinton is encouraging the misrepresentation / smearing.

Would anyone care to ask her the circumstances under which she would agree to first strike nuclear attack?
Maybe she can get Cheney to consult on her answer. He has experience in the field.

  • Does Hils think that popping a nuke seems a bit excessive? Why use a 25 kiloton weapon when a .50 caliber sniper round could do the same job without the radioactive fallout?

    Last night on The Daily Show, they had a graphic that morphed Hils into Cheney. For a while it seemed Hils was going to be the Teflon woman with regards to questions about her foreign policy. I guess the no stick guarantee was voided as soon as Hils Cheney opened her mouth.

  • All this pouncing must be making Hillary dizzy. The nuclear deterrent is not much of a bargaining chip in Afghanistan – what’re you going to program into the guidance system; Kabul? There’s nothing much else to target, and the “nuclear deterrent” isn’t going to deter a retaliatory strike from Afghanistan, they don’t have any. The notion that the Taliban is going to moderate its activities because they fear being nuked by America is pretty amusing, and Hillary’s pouncing owes more to the modern necessity of instantly setting up a shrill screeching as soon as your opponent takes a position than anything else.

    Obama is right. The nuclear option is not an option for the conflicts mentioned, as the United States is not at war with either country. The object is to ferret out supposedly destructive elements among the general population, who must not be harmed in the process in order to preserve the U.S. moral position. Nuclear weapons are called “Mass Destruction” weapons because they are not very selective. Hillary is just posturing for the nuts, which is yet another reason she would not be much of an improvement on Bush.

  • …this is about Democratic candidates getting slammed by unfair coverage….There’s no excuse for it.

    Of course not, but since when does corporate media even need an excuse to screw up what Democrats say and make their bastardization of what was actually said the official input into the echo chamber?

    Anyone who works for the media and reads the blogs should be pretty ashamed of the way they continually make hash out of things. I guess having millions of fact checkers is taking a lot of getting used to, but I wonder if the media cares if it makes controversies out of thin air?

    “Whatever sells papers” is probably their mantra.

  • Someone please ask the Clinton team if they think dropping a nuke on anyone would increase or decrease terrorism overall. If they say “decrease” they’re incompetent, if they say “increase” then they just made Obama’s argument for him.

    Only Bush and Cheney would be so stupid as to think a nuclear strike wouldn’t be the birth of another million terrorists.

  • Sounds like Clinton is trying to appeal to the Republican Das Base –nuke ’em all and let God sort it out!

    I wonder how old Osama Bush Laden is doing these days on kidney dialysis in a cave. They had him cornered in Tora Bora but he outsmarted the most powerful military on Earth? I look at Google Earth and for the life of me I cannot fathom how, with our advanced military technology –which I presume is exponentially better than consumer technology like Google Earth, we could let OBL slip through the cracks without being killed or captured?

  • Racerx said: ““Whatever sells papers” is probably their mantra.”

    Fills air time is more like it. It appears to me that the corporations (and their aristocratic owners) want to kill off papers, if they don’t work as propaganda. Hell, who wants the commoners to read?

    Exhibit A: The L.A. Times and Jonah Goldberg (AKA doughy pantload) replacing Robert Scheer.

  • ‘I cannot fathom how…we could let OBL slip through the cracks without being killed or captured?’

    my guess would have to be that they didn’t really want to catch him. he’s too good a tool for them to use to scare the bejesus out of americans.

  • If they had killed Osama in 2002 they never would have been able to have what they really wanted, the war in Iraq. Americans would have said “there, let that be a lesson to the next terrorist”.

    Bush/Cheney needed the terrorist threats to be ongoing so he could tie Saddam to it and have his war. Killing Osama would have dampened America’s appetite for war and they need it increased.

  • Hillary is certainly positioning herself as the Bush-style “tuff on terra”, but does she have to do the Bush-style “lying through my freakin’ teeth”?

    I had always hoped we’d get a more responsible news media, but perhaps, like Hillary, we should just give up and play by their rules.

    This country needs to reclaim their sanity.

  • Do we need further proof why Triangulatin’ Tilly won’t get my vote in the primary, and if she’s the candidate I will put my efforts into insuring a 67 vote Senate and a 2/3 House, so we can block whichever Republican traitor it is who beats the bimbo. I am soooo tired her crap!

  • Interestingly, Glenn Beck’s talking point of the day yesterday was how horribly irresponsible it was for him to state that, if there was actionable intelligence regarding “high value” terrorist targets in Pakistan, and Musharraf refused to act, we would.

    It must be nice to be so intellectually free, to always be right and to have it both ways whenever it suits your cause.

  • I have to agree with Haik re Tom Cleaver’s “bimbo” comment.

    And, like it or not, Senator Clinton is an impeccably-credentialed lifelong Democrat (as are all those who voted for enabling the invasion). She’s not my first choice and I won’t vote for her in the primary, but 54% of Democrats favor her for the nomination (per Gallup) and if she wins the nomination (God forbid, if you wish), she’s as much a true Democrat as Ned Lamont was. How did you feel about Connecticut Dems who didn’t support him?

    It seems the main thing people resent about her is that she is a politician. Since she’s been in the spotlight longer, it only looks like she is more of a political panderer than any of the other top three or so.

    We understand, you don’t like Hillary. Name-calling is beneath you, but it certainly more than hints at a major reason why you dislike her so much.
    .

  • This just shows the sort of nonsense that people talk about when nuclear weapons are available. Nuking Osama, indeed! This makes Cllnton more crazy hawkish than Tom Clancy. In one of Clancy’s novels, the US President was deemed insane enough to be forced from office when he proposed nuking a city in the Middle East to go after one person in it.

    August 6 will mark the anniversary of the first slaughter of civilians with a nuclear weapon. Let’s hope we don’t see any more Hiroshimas or Nagasakis, under Clinton or anyone else.

    Nuclear proliferation is one of the foremost threats to world security. As the number of states with nuclear weapons grows, the likelihood increases that one of them will be headed by someone reckless enough to kill a hundred thousand people or more with a nuclear weapon. The US, along with the other nuclear weapons states that signed onto it, agreed in the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty to move to nuclear disarmament. I would love to see a candidate who says he or she takes non-proliferation seriously enough to uphold the US end of the Non-Proliferation Treaty and pressure other countries to uphold theirs. Otherwise, we’re likely to see more countries like North Korea and Iran, pursuing nuclear weapons to keep invaders from the US (or other nuclear states) at bay.

  • I’m with Haik and powwow re: the use of the word “bimbo.” I personally do not like Hillary’s hawkish stances, her all-too-expedient impulses driving her to take whatever position is popular at any given moment, and I find her public demeanor to be cold and uninviting. However, I would NEVER, EVER hurl the epithet “bimbo” at her. The use of such a word demeans its user more than it does its target.

  • These may seem like artificial blowups between the Clinton and Obama campaigns.

    But what I’ve heard is that Clinton thinks it’s irresponsible to conduct diplomacy without preconditions and irresponsible to assure other nations that you’re not about to nuke them.

    That seems like a pretty hardnosed foreign policy to me. Haven’t we had enough of this yet?

  • It seems the main thing people resent about her is that she is a politician.

    Everyone running is a politician. I have no problem with that.

    My problem are the stances she considers pragmatic and politically sensible. Chances are that’s the way she’d rule if elected.

    Clinton has apparently decided that the progressive base have nowhere else to go, so she’s reaching well into the Republican base for brownie points.

  • The Truth (parenthetically)

    The Iron Maiden (Hillary) has got to show (center-right dims and repugs) she is willing to nuke bad guys (any place that doesn’t have a McDonald’s franchise).

    Big corporate media (controlled by Republican CEOs) want Hillary as the Dim candidate (she is the easiest to defeat, lots of hate out there for her!).

    Ergo everything that comes out of Obama’s mouth (immature black boy) about foreign policy is wrong (will be spun to look like contemptible foolishness).

    This is how democracy (the manufacture of consent) works in modern day (corporate-owned) America.

  • Does the US nuclear arsenal really do us and the world more good than harm? I doubt it. We would be better off dismantling our nukes and regarding them with the same disdain we have for chemical and biological weapons.

  • JoeBob, maybe it is just that I have not looked into Comrade Putin’s soul and determined he is a good man, but particularly given his recent tendencies, I have no faith that if we unilaterally destroyed our nuclear stockpiles that he would not run roughshod over much of the world in an effort to restore the glory of his much-romanticized Soviet Union. I’m not the biggest hawk on the block, but I do think there are a variety of pretty untrustworthy, not particularly benevolent, and in some cases downright power mad or otherwise whacked out leaders out there (and, sadly, some here as well at the moment). Having those nukes sitting around to make them at least thing two or three times about their ambitions doesn’t seem such a bad idea.

  • Zeitgeist,
    We need to work with Putin to dismantle all nuclear states’ weapons, they way we pledged to do in the Non-Proliferation Treaty that Russia is also a signatory to (inheriting signatory status and nuclear weapons from the Soviety Union).

    Reagan was able to negotiate on nuclear weapons with a Soviet Union he called the “Evil Empire.” We need leaders today who can negotiate with Russia to move forward toward eliminating nuclear weapons in every country.

  • We’ve got the best conventional missile technology in the world. We don’t need nuclear weapons. We had the capability to mount a “shock and awe” campaign against Baghdad without resorting to nukes. The US should not be in the business of threatening to commit genocide. At the very least, we should be working toward tri-lateral disarmament with Russia and China. The goal should be to eliminate the nukes.

  • Clinton is the republican choice for who the Democratic nominee should be. Witness the huge amount of publicity give to the national polls which she leads. Also note the absence of attacks on her or her positions from any of the pundocracy, just admiration. Whereas any time Obama opens his mouth he is lambasted to a fare thee well. Also his “lack of experience” is expounded upon. Not a word is said about the stunning amount of meaningful law he got passed in Springfield – at first in a Repub dominated legislature. Edwards is also vilified and demeaned constantly.

    In 2004 the repug choice was anyonebutDean and it worked with too many democrats saying “but he’s unelectable.” I think he was the only one who would have won.

    Let’s not make the same mistake. Let’s not let the Repug choice stand.

    Among the personal attacks would be this killer:

  • Boy did I screw up —

    Among the personal attacks would be this killer:

    Bush, Clinton, Bush, Clinton, why is almost like having Royalty.

    sam

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