Giuliani-nomics

One of the more confusing moments of the Republican presidential debate in Iowa the other day came when the Des Moines Register’s David Yespen, one of the most respected political journalists in the country, noted to Rudy Giuliani that Gov. Pawlenty (R) in Minnesota is open to raising taxes in order to address infrastructure concerns. Yespen asked Giuliani if the “Republican dogma against taxes” is “precluding the ability of you and your party to come up with the revenues that the country needs to fix its bridges.”

GIULIANI: David, there’s an assumption in your question that is not necessarily correct, sort of the Democratic, liberal assumption: “I need money; I raise taxes.”

YEPSEN: Then what are you going to cut, sir?

GIULIANI: The way to do it sometimes is to reduce taxes and raise more money. For example, I ran the city — I ran a city with 759 bridges; probably the most used bridges in the nation, some of the most used in the world. I was able to acquire more money to fund capital programs…. I was able to raise more money to fix those bridges by lowering taxes….

Later, in the same debate, Giuliani added, “[I]f we were starting off at the very beginning with taxation, the first argument I would make is let’s not have any taxes.”

Now, Giuliani’s comments were a special kind of stupid, but the exchange was uniquely annoying for a variety of reasons.

First, the former mayor seems to sincerely believe that tax cuts can pay for themselves. It’s an absurd argument that rears its ugly head from time to time, but it’s been debunked repeatedly. Even the president’s own economists reject the idea as bogus.

Second, Giuliani seems to believe he could address NYC infrastructure because of the strength of the local economy. In reality, as Anonymous Liberal noted, “Nevermind that this happened to coincide with the stock market boom of the late 90s.”

And third, Giuliani shamelessly repeats this nonsense because he knows the media isn’t going to call him on it.

Matt Yglesias explained that Giuliani’s argument demonstrated a “stunning confession of total ignorance of tax policy and economics by the GOP front runner,” but checked major news outlets to see how journalists covered the former mayor’s ridiculous remarks.

The results were predictable. Two reporters at the WaPo, the LAT, and the AP simply passed along Giuliani’s argument to readers, without noting the obvious error. The NYT didn’t get into the silly notion that tax cuts can pay for themselves, but did note that Giuliani’s argument was an exaggeration because of the general health of the national economy.

This need not be complicated: Republican presidential candidates routinely make demonstrably false claims because they know they’ll get away with it. Dems (and bloggers) will call them on their bogus claims, but most news accounts will either a) dutifully pass along the bogus claim without fact-checking; or b) note the claim and the criticism of the claim in a classic “he said, she said” style. Either way, the typical American news consumer won’t know the truth, and won’t know they’re being lied to by the likes of Giuliani.

Candidates, particularly Republican candidates, need disincentives. If they can lie with impunity, they will. If their lies are exposed and make the candidates appear foolish, they’ll stop.

Perhaps reporters are afraid of being accused of “bias,” but there’s an easy way to convey reality to readers/viewers. Using the debate example, a news item could report, “Giuliani claimed he could cut taxes and generate more revenue, but the claim has been refuted by reputable economists from both sides of the aisle for years.”

I am, of course, a dreamer, and this isn’t going to happen. As A.L. concluded, “In a rational universe, this kind of clownish pseudo-economics would be exposed as such at every opportunity and, in short order, it would no longer be politically feasible to say such stupid, unsupportable things on the campaign trail. Alas, that’s not the universe we live in.”

*sigh*

there are days that i wish that i didn’t read CBR……

(just kidding steve, i’d have trouble making it through the day without you.)

  • (Pedantic note: it’s Yepsen not Yespen.)

    If Dems routinely made demonstrably false claims they would not be let slide by the corporate press. Hell, Gore’s truthful statements were continually flagged as lies by these people.

    They are not our friends. The next Democratic president should bear that in mind.

  • For anyone who’s interested- there’s an easy pneumonic for any AP reporter’s email if you want to write to them. First Initial, Last Name at AP dot Org.

    I got an AP reporter to update a story on Jose Padilla to include the fact he’s an American Citizen who was held three years without charge. His argument for not writing Padilla was a citizen was he thought that saying “former Chicago gang member” covered that. I found that ridiculous, so I asked the reporter if he himself was born here, or was he a naturalized Chicago gang member. He got the point and changed the story.

    My only suggestion is that if you write to an AP reporter with my pneumonic trick, be firm but polite. And tell them to read the Carpetbagger Report.

  • I do love, however, the Giuliani boldly went to the cartoonish extreme. I have often had a good, um, Laffer with my supply-side loving friends when they say that by lowering taxes we increase total revenues by joking that “I suppose government revenues would really go up if we have no taxes at all!” They rightly called me on arguing reductio ad absurdium.

    So imagine my surprise when Roodee actual argues this in a debate! One can only hope that at some special level of stupid even Republicans get it. “hmmm. if we raise no revenues, we’ll have lots of revenues? huh?”

    the unintentional comedy of this, along with my second cup o caffiene, has markedly improved my mood.

  • Given that tax policy cannot be reduced to bumper-sticker-sized slogans, I think it would be really interesting to have some focus on the issue to see whether any of the candidates can come up with more than that.

    A nice push-back from Stephanopoulos on Giuliani’s answer might have been something like, “when you say that cutting taxes increases your revenues, a lot of people in this audience and watching at home think that makes no sense, that it’s like someone who earns a paycheck saying that the less money they make, the more they have to spend. Explain to the people what you mean, and how that works.” I have no doubt he would have taken a stab at answering, but I’m pretty sure it would have been more gobbledygook.

    I think a lot of people assume that because Giuliani was the mayor of a major metropolitan area, that he holds the equivalent of a master’s in taxation, but mayors do not rule by fiat. Mayors work with their own legislature or city councils, and are also dependent upon their states to fill in the blanks, as well. Where does that money come from…?

    Rudy’s favorite line seems to be that “Democrats are going to raise your taxes!” The pushback on that might be two-fold: one, the effect of placing anti-consumer, pro-business people as heads of agencies in charge of protecting the public health and safety, and two, the decline in funding of those agencies and areas of interest.

    There are times, when Giuliani speaks, that I wonder if he is actually standing on his head, and what I am hearing is not coming out of his mouth.

  • If you ever hear Giuliani’s classic claptrap spewing from a humble citizen’s mouth.

    Ask them how lowering taxes to zero would produce the maximum revenue. If lowering taxes pays for itself, no taxes should max us out, right?

    Before their heads stop spinning and they start quoting Hannity in a defensive effort to lean on authority rather than logic, try to fill in the blanks for them…. a 10 second sound bite that might land somewhere in their cranium long enough to make them cautious about blathering this tripe again unless they are among strictly fellow Kool-Aid imbibers:

    100% taxes produce ZERO, because no one will work for nothing.
    0% taxes produces ZERO, because ZERO percent of any amount of taxable revenue is zero.

    Reality MUST be that the best possible tax rate is SOMEWHERE in the middle.

  • There’s little argument that Giuliani is a windbag who simply says whatever his enablers tell him the American people want to hear. No taxes at all?? Sign me up! The average American, as the article takes care to highlight, does not know this will not work, and everyone at least half-believes the government are thieves who don’t really need all those tax dollars – they just take them because they can. In a few cases, that’s true.

    Stay tuned as U.S.S. DELUSION, with Captain Rudi Giuliani in command, visits even more exotic destinations. Police Stations made of chocolate!!! No-calorie fast food restaurants that cook with twice the fat and sugar, and are staffed by beautiful nymphomaniacs who GOTTA HAVE YOU RIGHT NOW, MISTER!! Step right up, cast your vote here, and leave your brains at the door.

  • What I know is this: Republicans always profiteer off the government nearly robbing it into bankruptcy, directing the nation’s wealth into too few hands, trying to prove government is wasteful and does not work and Democrats always have to bail them out, and spread the nation’s wealth to the broader population.

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