‘It just boggles my mind’

Following up on this morning’s item about just how foolish Bush is to rely on the Vietnam war as a historical model for Iraq, it’s worth noting that some historians and related experts are weighing in on the president’s comparison.

Not surprisingly, they’re not impressed.

Historian Robert Dallek, who has written about the comparisons of Iraq to Vietnam, accused Bush of twisting history. “It just boggles my mind, the distortions I feel are perpetrated here by the president,” he said in a telephone interview.

“We were in Vietnam for 10 years. We dropped more bombs on Vietnam than we did in all of World War II in every theater. We lost 58,700 American lives, the second-greatest loss of lives in a foreign conflict. And we couldn’t work our will,” he said.

“What is Bush suggesting? That we didn’t fight hard enough, stay long enough? That’s nonsense. It’s a distortion,” he continued. “We’ve been in Iraq longer than we fought in World War II. It’s a disaster, and this is a political attempt to lay the blame for the disaster on his opponents. But the disaster is the consequence of going in, not getting out.”

And some more.

Vietnam historian Stanley Karnow said Bush is reaching for historical analogies that don’t track. “Vietnam was not a bunch of sectarian groups fighting each other,” as in Iraq, Karnow said. In Cambodia, the Khmer Rouge toppled a U.S.-backed government.

“Does he think we should have stayed in Vietnam?” Karnow asked.

And some more.

Steven Simon, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, echoed these comments. “The President emphasized the violence in the wake of American withdrawal from Vietnam. But this happened because the United States left too late, not too early. It was the expansion of the war that opened the door to Pol Pot and the genocide of the Khmer Rouge. The longer you stay the worse it gets.”

But wait, there’s more.

For that matter, Rick Perlstein noted a series of posts — 1, 2, 3, and 4 — which, combined, debunk most of the popular conservative myths working their way through the political world today

Given today’s rhetoric, this is probably the most notable one.

It is true that tens of thousands of Vietnamese were killed, and hundreds of thousands exiled to “re-education” camps, by a triumphant Communist government after Saigon fell in 1975. But by the early 1970s as the worst American bombing was raging, hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese were being killed, and millions being exiled from their homes — carnage that came to a dead stop once the war ended. As cruel as the Communist consolidation of power was, ending the war entailed an obvious net saving of lives, and if it were saving lives conservatives actually cared about — instead of scoring ideological points — this should be obvious.

That’s the first point. The second: America’s war aim — standing up an anti-Communist democratic government in Saigon absent an American military occupation — was impossible. President Nixon admitted this privately all the time, even while he was simultaneously publicly claiming he was negotiating to achieve exactly that. The point has finally become so obvious that now even conservatives admit it. Though conservatives still haven’t brought themselves to admit the more fundamental point: Nixon was right. Indeed, sickeningly, after more visits and better contacts in-country than any American politician, he had been saying we couldn’t win in Vietnam privately since 1966, as Len Garment disarmingly acknowledged in his memoir.

Regrettably, in just one day, the right is flunking military policy, national security policy, foreign policy, and history. Not bad for a day’s work.

While Billary was saying that the surge in Iraq was working at the VFW, she also said America should get ready for its next war. $hrub is doing just that and Billary must be planning to have it handed off to her. I recommend Ray McGovern’s, ex-CIA analyst, article on Bush’s next war with Iran as an important read. Bush’s War Drums How will this conflagration compare to Vietnam and Korea?

  • I agree with tko, Billary is the media’s choice for “frontrunner” even though none of us want her or Obama. We want somebody that can win, like John Edwards. Billary is another corporate stooge, we can’t afford another one. Bush is enough of a warmonger to bankrupt our nation.
    Twisting of history was done a lot in Nazi Germany. Today, in Iran, they twist the history of Nazi Germany. That the bushies follow Nazi propaganda methods doesn’t surprise me. They all need to be thrown out of office! Bush/Cheney/Gonazales.
    After them, we need a new Congress and get rid of this pack of cowards. They have sold us down the river, and need to be replaced. We need leaders who will follow the dictates of the people, and end the war, impeach the executive branch, restore our civil rights and give us back our country.

  • I took a class with Professor Robert Dallek my senior year. He admitted in class that he was a “died in the wool” party guy.

    He wasn’t talking about the Republican party.

    Mr. Dallek also frequently went on anti-Cheney tirades.

    I respect his research, and his long career, but his is hardly the impartial, objective professional opinion that can be held up to the light.

  • Regrettably, in just one day, the right is flunking military policy, national security policy, foreign policy, and history. Not bad for a day’s work.

    Yeah, but as long as they plant the thought in people’s minds that every war opponent is a patchouli-scented hippie, they don’t give a shit.

  • The thing that really pisses me off about Bush’s mention of the ‘killing fields’ is the unspoken implication that we actually cared what happened to the Cambodians. We were indiscriminately carpet-bombing the entire country! It’s horribly insulting that Bush now pretends that we were somehow there to protect Cambodia.

  • So N. which part of what Professor Dallek said is wrong?

    A person can be an idealogue and still right. What you think politically has absolutely no bearing on the historical facts.

  • We’ve been in Iraq longer than we fought in World War II.

    It won’t be long before this metric becomes obsolete. If anything, it tells us just how short World War II was, as wars go. From the invasion of Poland to VE Day was less than six years (US involvement, obviously, was just 3 1/2 years). The war in the Pacific went longer, if you start with the invasion of Manchuria in 1931.

    More stunning, perhaps, is the Great War, which lasted less than 4 1/2 years from Ferdinand to Armistice.

    At the rate we’re going, these globe-spanning conflicts will shrink in significance until they barely rate a mention in history class, like the Mongol invasions and the Napoleonic wars.

  • No doubt Bush and Cheney are firmly convinced that if only the military had let them go and fight in Vietnam, they would have won the war for us. {/snark]

  • Since their name has come up, has anyone asked the Vietnamese what they think? Just out of curiosity.

  • The first American troops to go into Vietnam were “advisers” who went in in 1957 during the Eisenhower administration. If we consider the 1957 date as the start, then it lasted more than ten years and closer to twenty years, with the last troops leaving during the Ford Administration, around 1975. It was pure bullshit.

    Vietnam was not a preemptive war like Iraq. Our leadership made a foolish decision to escalate a situation that they knew we could not win because they feared a “communist takeover” in South East Asia.

    The only comparison I can think of between Vietnam and Iraq is that the American people were deceived both times by dishonest leadership.

  • I agree with Brother GRACIOUS. If you were never there, you will never know. I grew up in Thailand. My father was a lifer in the Army. I joined the Navy in nineteen sixtynine and got out in nineteen seventythree. My major task was to help bomb a brown skined people into oblivion because they were a communist menace. Problem was they were nationalist and would never submit. Ask the French. I don’t know or care to much about historians or other peoples views. I know what we did can never be justified. I fear that a menace has taken hold of this country and we think we are in charge. Problem is we have the same control over our fate as we have control over the weather. We have been at war with some one since I was born. We stick our noses in other peoples affairs. Sooner or later it will be removed from our faces.

  • Chuck,

    For starters, we can address Dallek’s “disaster” comment. By what measurement, exactly, is Iraq a “disaster?” By Dallek’s own measurement, we lost more than ten times the number of Americans in Vietnam.

    Here are some other numbers: More American soldiers died during Bill Clinton’s administration, then the entire 6 years of the Iraq war. Check it out here:

    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2007/08/shhh-us-winning-iraq-war-military-plans.html

    By what measurement, exactly, are we measuring defeat? By the 30-1 ration in which we are killing terrorists/insurgents?

    As to your point that someone can be right regardless of their political persuasion – you are correct, but in the 5 years since I had a class with Dallek (I’m a registered Democrat, by the way, always have been), any time he’s been quoted in the paper, his professional opinion has always neatly coincided with the Democratic view, an/or opposed the Republican view.

    Not a coincidence, that’s why the press has him in their rolodex.

  • Good Lord, N., you mean you actually know the official “Democratic view?” That’s amazing!

  • “By what measurement, exactly, are we measuring defeat? By the 30-1 ration in which we are killing terrorists/insurgents?”

    Is that the ratio of terrorists created to terrorists killed or captured? If so, then 30:1 is indeed pretty disastrous. I would define defeat as a situation which cannot be won by any means we are able to apply.

  • “By Dallek’s own measurement, we lost more than ten times the number of Americans in Vietnam.”

    But for the advancements to modern medicine and the translation of those advancements into field treatment of seriously injured soldiers, the ratio would be less than 2-1.

    Nice try, fraidy-cat.

  • Maybe our Commander in Chief is having regrets about not having personally gone over there to Vietnam to win that war.

  • N. Lihach said: “More American soldiers died during Bill Clinton’s administration, then the entire 6 years of the Iraq war. ”

    I just have to comment on this: that statement is at best misleading and at worst completely dishonest. If you look at the official death rate statistics by year , you will see that the numbers on the plot you cite are total deaths under the Clinton years, which includes accident, illness, and suicide, versus the death rates for only Iraq, which of course are lower. The total deaths per year dropped significantly during the Bush I and Clinton years, and from the start of OIF they’ve climbed again and are now double what they were in the Clinton years.

    The comparison made is a bit like Brit Hume comparing the number of soldiers killed in Iraq to the total population of Iraq, and then commenting that the death rate is lower than LA. It’s an apples and oranges comparison, and doesn’t have much meaning.

    And as others have already mentioned, focusing too closely on fatalities misses the reality that there are a lot of combat wounded (it looks like a factor of 10 more wounded than killed). We know that the number of wounded is unprecedented, from the troubles at Walter Reed and other military hospitals.

  • “More American soldiers died during Bill Clinton’s administration, then the entire 6 years of the Iraq war. ”

    P.S. Not to nitpick, but this is an important point: The Iraq War started in 2003. It’s now 2007. The ‘six years’ refers to the post-Sept 11 era, in which we had two years with (relatively) few casualties in Afghanistan. We can’t count those years as part of the Iraq war.

  • Oh sweet mother of Pearl! Not that same old bit of statistical gymnastics that Gateway Pund-Idiot is so awfully partial to trotting out! Se, he takes the number of Americans in uniform that died of natural causes, car accidents, etc during the Clinton years, and he compares them to the war dead by Bush’s hand.

    He actually wants you to believe that soldiers are safer in the military today, in war time, than they were under Clinton! Talk about that which boggles the mind!

    Another Missourian would have had some colorful words to describe that joker – “Lies, damned lies, and statistics” would have been in the invective he hurled.

    For the record – we have been debunking his idiocy for a year, but he keeps right on a-floggin’ his bullshit story, for he fancies himself clever. His readers are idiotic enough to slurp up his slop and fancy themselves informed. (Hint: neither he nor his readers are actually the way they see themselves.)

  • Blue Girl: Not surprised to see that this ‘statistic’ has been floating around the RW blogosphere for a while. It really says something about the intelligence of their readers that I took one minute, including the Google search, to figure out what was wrong with the argument…

    P.S. They don’t mention, of course, that over twice as many soldiers were dying per year during the Reagan era. I personally would assume that the training and safety gear were just not as advanced then, but following Gateway’s logic Reagan was a big troop-hater.

  • Ahh, but the big difference between Vietnam and Iraq is that Bush wasn’t involved in Vietnam. He must have thought that one man couldn’t make a difference and that God would take care of everything, so he was best utilized protecting the Texas skies against a surprise attack. Now he knows better.

    So I’m guessing that once Iraq hits the ten year, 58,000 lives mark, he should have things well in hand. After that, it’s just a scant forty years of protecting the Shiite-Sunni DMZ, and we’ll be ready to use Iraq as a model of how we expect the Iran War to eventually end, as well as the ones in Pakistan, China, Russia, and France. Assuming we don’t bail on him, that is. Remember, you can make a difference.

  • I guess I’ll take each of you one at a time:

    idlemind – We don’t have to get too caught up in conjecture, but there are a very long list of issues of which an opinion can be confidently stated as falling as predominantly Democrat, or Republican. I don’t think I need to explain it much more than that.

    Grumpy – 30:1 is (at least) the ration of terrorists killed per U.S. soldier death. For example, in one operation alone today, 56 terrorists were killed (with Iraqi Army assistance, as well). That’s a pretty good ratio. Context.

    bubba – I’d like to see your evidence for that, unless you are idly speculating. Cool it with the ad hominem attacks, although that seems your signature, judging by other comments you’ve left on previous posts. Grow up.

    gg – Sit back and take a look at the bigger picture for a second. Yes, that figure lists total Clinton deaths, but that is not the point. We’re fighting two wars, in which we deposed one despot, and one masochistic regime in the span of six years. Between those two wars, we’ve lost fewer troops than under peacetime Clinton. Context.

    But still, that is too high a death toll for the war critics.

    We’ve had 27,186 wounded in Iraq, but 153,303 in Vietnam. That’s fewer than one fifth the wounded. How is that “unprecedented?” And how does a mismanaged Veteran’s hospital lead you to conclude that there have been too many wounded for us to handle? You’re the one who brought up apples and oranges, right?

    gg – Good point, like I said earlier, we’ve lost the same number of troops fighting two wars as Clinton during peace time.

  • Blue Girl – Nothing says you care like a series of profanity-laced name-calling. Again, it’s the context. We’re fighting two wars right now.

    Doctor Biobrain – If you honestly believe we’ll be at 58,000 deaths six years from now when we hit the ten year mark in Iraq, then I feel bad for you.

  • Lihach wrote: “Sit back and take a look at the bigger picture for a second. Yes, that figure lists total Clinton deaths, but that is not the point…. Between those two wars, we’ve lost fewer troops than under peacetime Clinton. ”

    No, you look at the math! The troops lost under Clinton were accidents, illness, and suicides. Those numbers are pretty much exactly the same under Bush. In addition to that, we’ve got the combat losses in Iraq. The total number of troops per year lost under Bush is significantly larger because of the war. The fact that you don’t seem to get that suggests you’re being dishonest, or intentionally obtuse. Time to drop that ‘registered Democrat’ pretense.

  • gg – I’ll repeat myself, because I think we’re arguing two different points. The total number of American troop fatalities is greater under Bush than Clinton, you are correct. The point of Gateway’s figures, however, is to show that the number of total troop deaths under Clinton (7,500, or so), is still far less than two wars we are fighting (4,151+).

    If you are talking violent death, the number is approximately 76 under Clinton, and at least 4,151 under Bush.

    Again, the purpose of the stats is to place the troop deaths in perspective, considering we’ve ousted a dictator and destroyed a violent, repressive Islamic regime in Afghanistan.

    The total number of troops lost under Bush stands at 9,864 (approx), while the total under Clinton is 7,500 or so. “Significant,” you say? Yes, more a difference of more than 2,000 deaths. But when considering this is under war time, post-9/11, while fighting in two countries against multiple foes (al Qaeda, insurgents, separatists, Baathists, Iranians, etc.) the picture should look different.

    And again, by a factor of at least 30-1, that we are killing them. I heard no one reply about my mention of 56 dead terrorists in one operation yesterday.

    And I see no good news reported here, such as the leader of the deposed Baathists announcing yesterday that he wants to work with the Iraqi government and coalition forces.

    And I see no mention here of the hundreds of Iraqi civilians who are coming forward to our troops on a daily basis and reporting IED’s, and insurgents hiding away among the population. Read Michael Yon’s dispatches, he’s been living in Iraq for years now among the troops.

    Blue Girl – Did you detect glibness in my tone? You won’t find profanity or condescension, but the same cannot be said for you.

  • Lihach, you are proven to be pretty much in error on most every post you make on this site. And let’s not forget it was you who came here and falsly started accusing CB and the rest of us of being anti-military when that was in fact not the case. In addition, you yourself said you changed your attitude, or something to that effect, when you ‘found out about the existence of al qaeda.’ It is pretty apparent that you are in fact afraid of ghosts, phantoms, things that have such a low chance of harming you when compared to real threats you face these days. And yet you are willing to give up your rights to psychotic incompetents to obtain a sense (and not much more than that) of security from such things. Great for you, but that merely proves you are a frightened sissy (a bed-wettin’ pants poopin’ chickenshite). And I will remind everyone of that every time you post nonsense.

  • I’m with N. Fuck it! Let the troops stay! Who gives a rat’s ass if they get picked off one by one over the next ten years? It’s all to keep ME safe. And to ME, that’s worth it.

  • bubba,

    Thanks again for reminding me of my incontinence, I had almost forgotten the last two times you wrote it.

    I have not been proven to be in error. The critique was not that the numbers were wrong, simply that they were apples and oranges. They were a comparison to put troops deaths in context, but the numbers as they were presented were not wrong. Do you see the difference?

    Furthermore, I accused CB of being anti-military in so much as this site (along with many other liberal sites) suffers from a severe dearth in positive news from the front, or even a modest reporting of military victories. Don’t deny it, I’ve asked you guys to supply me links, but on that note, you’ve been noticeably silent.

    I changed my attitude beginning last September after reading Lawrence Wright’s “The Looming Tower.” I become further disgusted with my fellow Democrats when they began:

    1) Denying al Qaeda in Iraq
    2) Dismissing any al Qaeda threat (while other liberals, like CB, simultaenously point to a worsening threat – see the “Terror Index” post here just days ago)
    3) Declaring the war “Lost” while our troops are on the ground, which only emboldens the enemy
    4) Criticizing our military leadership, including Petraeus, only months after unanimously approving his appointment.
    5) Slandering servicemembers charged with war crimes (Murtha), who are innocent before proven guilty.
    6) Liberal Bloggers saying “screw them” of the troops, or calling them “retarded,” “amoral,” etc.
    7) Liberal Bloggers openly calling for the death of the Vice President when he falls ill, or comes close to a rocket attack in Afghanistan.

    Is that a good start?

    I’m not afraid of ghosts, but if you like, you can persist in the ad hominem attacks, I won’t sink to your level.

    Ghosts, you say? The Fort Dix Six? AQI? The JFK Plot? The LAX Plot? How many more do I need to list?

    You are obviously a Michael Moore fan. It may well be that there is a greater chance I will die in a car accident or by a lightning strike, but there is nothing I can do about that.

    The last thing I want to be is a propaganda tool for a group of psychotic Islamic radicals, killing in the name of Allah.

    It’s interesting, and laughable to me… liberals are such fans of decrying the Christian Right (I’ve done it, too), but when it comes to the Islamic hardliners, they’re almost sympathetic.

    You’re worried about “giving up rights?” What rights have you lost? Has the FBI come knocking on your door? Not me, I’m not breaking any laws. But if you want to talk about losing rights, look at Europe, Britain in particular, where Muslims have been steadily eroding the civil rights of Britons, and silencing and criticism. They’re even openly calling for attacks on the British in Afghanistan and Iraq with impunity. And incredulously, liberals, those most allergic to the Christian Right, come to the aid of “oppressed” Muslims everywhere. Just ask the Mayor of London.

    And as for your “sissy” talk…

    …that will help drive me when I get to OCS next month.

  • Lihachtroll: “when it comes to the Islamic hardliners, [liberals are] almost sympathetic”

    What utter garbage. Lihachtroll is obviously a moron who can’t tell the difference between progressive cultural tolerance toward moderate Islam and the deafening silence of the right wingers when it comes to Bush’s “allies” like Saudi Arabia who fostered the people who actually attacked us on 9/11.

    Lihachtroll, unaware of the irony, also says “The last thing I want to be is a propaganda tool for a group of psychotic Islamic radicals, killing in the name of Allah.”

    Riiight. That’s why you whine for “success stories” from the worst strategic blunder in American history, the biggest boost to Islamic radicalism anyone could have ever concocted short of the bombing of Mecca (although some of the battier wingnuts have advocated even that).

    Lihachtroll is the kind of moron who would pull his own fingers off to get out of a pair of Chinese handcuffs, and then yell at everyone “Hey, look how many fingers I still have left!!!”

    Moron.

  • Name-calling is a great strategy, Racerx.

    Following up assumptions and a series of derogatory-laced “what if’s,” and absurd hypotheticals is neither mature, or adroit…

    I’ll take this moment to note that I’m unafraid to use my real name, unlike Racerx, Blue Girl, or Bubba, those who have used the most foul language in this comment section.

    That being said, I’ll address your criticism:

    I can tell the difference between “progressive cultural tolerance.” Let’s take just one example… I do not consider constructing footbaths for Muslims on tax-payer funded college campuses as “tolerance,” I see that as funding religion. Aren’t liberals, excuse me – progressives – the champions of separation of church and state… but what about college campus?

    You’re correct that we are allied with Saudi Arabia, but… being anti-war, are you suggesting we attack the Saudi’s? I don’t understand your logic. Please clarify.

    “Worst strategic blunder” or not (I say not), does that mean there have been no victories at all? No morale-raising tales of honor, or valor? All I’ve seen on this blog, and other “progressive” blogs are ridicule and disdain for the war effort, which very often spills over into criticism of the troops (if not wholesale ignorance of their heroism).

    Stop paying lip service, and actually post something positive about a soldier, any soldier from Iraq (except Adam Kokesh, who Kos has praised for protesting in uniform, while denigrating Segreant Aguina at Yearly Kos).

    Despite all the ridicule and name-calling you guys have heaped on me, I’ve repeatedly asked for a link from CarpetBagger or even DailyKos for a positive war story, anything that doesn’t also conveniently bash Bush.

    So far: zero, zip, nada. I’m still waiting.

    Something tells me even if you do find one, it will be after a very long search.

    Sheesh, all that typing, and I managed not to throw out any condescending, inflammatory remarks in your direction.

    I guess not all pro-war types are barbarians, huh?

  • We don’t have to get too caught up in conjecture, but there are a very long list of issues of which an opinion can be confidently stated as falling as predominantly Democrat, or Republican. I don’t think I need to explain it much more than that.

    No, we don’t have to get too caught up in conjecture, but when someone uses the perjorative Democrat when they should be using Democratic, it generally denotes a prejudice against Democratic political figures and policies.

    And this comes in just before an admonishment from this individual about using name calling as a debating strategy.

    I don’t think I need to explain it much more than that.

    I would also seriously call into question the figures about relative military morbidity in the American military. Are you including all of the people who died during Clinton’s presidency due to their Vietnam experiences in that Clinton number? Are you including all of the military casualites that have been denied treatment by the VA due to “pre-existing conditions” in Putsch’s numbers? Are you comparing the deaths over the eight years of Clinton with those over the six and a half years of the current resident?

    I would also say that someone who would write I have not been proven to be in error would either have some issues dealing with reality, or so religiously insane that they will not consider the possibility that they could make a mistake in the first place.

  • N. Lihach – I have been reading your posts and trying to figure out what is driving your need to come to this site and continue these arguments. I’m going out on a limb with my following supposition – I’m not trying to offend you, just understand your position:

    It occurred to me that maybe you are looking for some validation for your decision to go to OCS. I admire that you are doing that and want to serve your country. You may also be trying to find the people that agree with your decision and think you are going to be serving a just cause. And if they don’t, make them change their minds.

    Unfortunately, the majority of people in the United States think this war was necessary and that it was started under false pretense. You can’t change the fact. The people that post on this site are furious that the current administration has taken the constitution and pissed all over it; that this war has cost so many lives for nothing more than lining all of Bush and Cheney’s buddies’ pockets; and that they don’t have any strategy for getting out of this mess. Of course we aren’t going to be focused on discussing the “victories” of the troops in the Iraq and we are jaded into not believing anything that this administration publishes about the success as anything more than propaganda.

    I’m sorry if you feel that we are doing a diservice to the men and women that are serving this country but we are not going to change our discussions to please you and help you justify your decision.

  • Ack – above post clarification.

    It should read “Unfortunately, the majority of people in the United States think this was was unnecessary…

  • (: Tom 🙂

    You caught my typo: Democrat, instead of Demcoratic. I didn’t think there was a big difference, or that ‘Democrat’ was a pejorative…

    If you want to compare an idle syntax error with “fraidy cat” or “poopin chickenshite,” well… it’s a free country.

    Regarding the US military deaths, if you can find a manner by which to measure Vietnam veteran deaths, then go ahead. But that would probably mean even more died under Reagan then, explaining his higher numbers??? I don’t want to repeat myself again regarding the context of those numbers, and obviously Bush’s term is not yet finished.

    And no, no one’s proven the numbers wrong, only objected to the way they are being used.

    I acknowledge those figures can’t be used to explain away the Iraq war, but (for the third time now), our military fatalities during two wars are not devastating. We suffered exponentially worse in many other past conflicts, which makes the hyperbolic outcry over this war that much more hysterical.

    On the contrary, you are all proving me right… by the absence of even one link that I’ve asked for in my above comments. There hasn’t even been a reply about it.

    No retort about Murtha’s accusations (half the Haditha Marines he said killed “in cold blood” on Meet the Press have so far been exonerated), no excuse for Harry Reid’s absolutely irresponsible “war is lost” commentary, or Bloggers hoping for the death of the sitting VP.

    Your silence speaks volumes.

  • If you want to compare an idle syntax error with “fraidy cat” or “poopin chickenshite,” well… it’s a free country.

    Awful funny how that “syntax error” has been happening on a constant basis whenever Republican’t operatives start talking about Democratic politicians and policies. Are you sure Roger Stone hasn’t been helping you out with the bogus excuses or something?

    And, sorry if the progressive community does not feel obligated to respond to every half-baked set of Republican’t propaganda that spews from one of its’ spokesweasels. Perhaps you could maybe provide some proof of the crap you’re spewing before requiring that everyone else responds to that crap as if it was gold?

  • Tom,

    You don’t have to apologize, that’s okay. Republicans, Conservatives, right-wingers, neocons, etc. are not always right. Case in point: Invading Iraq with too few troops, disbanding the Iraqi Army, losing track of Billions of dollars to rebuild Iraq, telling them to “Bring it on,” etc.

    There is plenty to chastise the Right for.

    However, you can judge by my comments for yourself if I intended offense by using the seeming innocuous “Democrat.” If that’s the worst I’ve done, then I guess your guilty of a greater offense, since your language is considerably less respectful.

    Regarding the proof for the “crap” I’m spewing, please be specific. The figures on troop casualties is easily available online.

    Or if you like, see my Blog for more links: http://www.nonpartypolitics.blogspot.com

    Again, I published my full name here, which is more than can be said of the lot of you only interested in ruminating on Bush, or issuing invective screed.

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