2016

When Gen. David Petraeus looks to the future, and envisions the time commitment necessary to implement the president’s goals in Iraq, he’s picturing about another decade.

[T]he real test came over a lunch with Gen. David H. Petraeus, who used charts and a laser pointer to show how security conditions were gradually improving — evidence, he argued, that the troop increase is doing some good.

Still, the U.S. commander cautioned, it could take another decade before real stability is at hand. [Rep. Jan] Schakowsky gasped. “I come from an environment where people talk nine to 10 months,” she said, referring to the time frame for withdrawal that many Democrats are advocating. “And there he was, talking nine to 10 years.” […]

“I felt that was a stretch and really part of a PR strategy — just like the PR strategy that initially led up to the war in the first place,” Schakowsky said. Petraeus, she said, “acknowledged that if the policymakers decide that we need to withdraw, that, you know, that’s what he would have to do. But he felt that in order to win, we’d have to be there nine or 10 years.”

For all the talk about “turning the corner,” the top general on the ground believes U.S. forces should be able to successfully stabilize Iraq — never mind a flourishing democracy that serves as a beacon of hope that transforms the region — by the year 2016.

Or, translated into Friedman Units, Petraeus suspects 18 to 20 more ought to do the trick.

For every pundit who insists that the Bush policy is finally, after years of failure, on the right track, the assessment creates a helpful contrast. As Yglesias put it, “To say that our current policy is working and needs just ten more years to stabilize Iraq is lunacy — just leaving stands a perfectly good chance of working just as quickly at radically lower cost.”

You know, it would be cheaper and probably better for Iraq if we pulled out and sent them a billion a month for the next 10 years to help fix all the damage caused by the neocons kicking over the anthill.

  • I wonder if anyone asked the General how many troops he would need for the next 9 or 10 years.

    If he thinks it can be done with 30,000 troops then his solution is politcally possible.

    If he thinks he will need 150,000 troops then his solution is not possible with the army we currently have. It might be possible with a draft. It might be possible if we significantly increase the pay of the troops in Iraq. However, I doubt anyone thinks that 150,000 troops for 10 years is a serious possibility.

  • Guess we need 9 to 10 more years of imperialists like the Bush Laden Crime Family to “get the job done.” It’s all coming to together, the oil in Iraq and soon to be in Iran, the pipeline in Afghanistan. The NeoCon master plan is coming together. It’s the result of meticulous planning since 10 days after Dear Leader took office and years prior.

  • This surely begs the question of what these “president’s goals in Iraq” that need 10 years to implement actually are.

    “But he felt that in order to win, we’d have to be there nine or 10 years.” So two million Iraqi refugees and over half a million dead is not a big enough loss to give them their ‘win’?

    The only way in which 10-year-long ‘goals’ add up is in terms of annihilation and imperialistic occupation, redolent of the Nazi endeavors 60 years ago. Is that what this gang envisage? It would certainly seems so.

  • NeoCon’s version of “As Time Goes By”

    This day and age we’re living in
    Gives cause for apprehension
    With speed and new invention
    And things like Bill’s delusion.

    Yet we get a trifle weary
    With Mr. Kristol’s theory.
    So we must get down to earth at times
    Facts deny the Fiction

    And no matter what the progress
    Or what may yet be proved
    The simple facts of war are such
    They cannot be removed.

    You must remember this
    A death is just a death, a lie is just a lie.
    The time is getting long
    As Iraq goes on.

    And when the neocons spew
    They still say, “Another F(riedman) U(nit).”
    On that you can rely
    No matter what the future brings
    As Iraq goes on.

    Car bombs and IEDs
    Never out of date.
    Hearts full of pain
    Bloodlust and hate.
    SUVs need gas
    And Chickenhawks play war
    That no one can deny.

    It’s still the same old story
    A war for oil and glory
    A case of Bill’s old lies
    Like the Iraqis “always” throw flowers
    As Iraq goes on.

    Oh yes, Like the Iraqis always “throw” flowers
    As Iraq goes on.

  • One of the most interesting things I heard today came from, of all people, George Will on This Week, who said that by Petraeus’ own measures, he is failing. If the pre-surge Petraeus were to critique the efficacy of the surge, he would have to admit that it was a failure, because the political work it was supposed to give breathing room for has not materialized. Numerous members of the parliament/legislature have walked out, and while our troops are striving – unsuccessfully – to bring stability, there is no political work being done. Instead, the violence has moved out of Baghdad, areas that were calmer are erupting, sectarian deaths are up from a year ago, and within 6 months, we are going to have no choice but to start bringing troops home, because we cannot maintain these levels without stretching our troops beyond the breaking point.

    The military hierarchy is becoming more and more vocal, and it is not speaking in one voice. Who to believe? Which general has it right?

    The coming report to Congress is going to be preceded by an all-out PR campaign coming at the American people from all sides. There is the unconscionable advertising from Freedom’s Watch, the new “War Room” being set up within the military to sell the president’s policy.

    War should not be allowed to be sold like Viagra. Veterans should not be used as shills for the president’s policies.

    That any “product” has to be sold this hard, and this dirty, should be a gigantic, flaming, neon-lit, Diamond-Vision sized “Caveat Emptor” warning to everyone.

    Too bad there seems to be a ban on advertising the competing “product.”

  • You know, wasn’t it always these military types who wanted us to have strategic reserves of military units and material in case we needed them, and who were always worried about the next threat around the corner? What if a real threat, a real war, materialized in the next 9 or 10 years, and not just this fake, “let’s send the whole military to Iraq to work on a Gordian Knot just to make the president and the conservatives look better” so-called “threat”?

  • The continuing squabble over the surge, and the apparent laying of groundwork for the overthrow of al-Maliki in favour of Ayad Allawi, are just a smokescreen for the underlying goal – keep the disaster somehow staggering along until George W. Bush can leave office saying, “I stuck to my guns. I never withdrew”. If they can get some traction with the al-Maliki replacement plan – and everybody knows it’s a White House initiative even though Bush continues to damn al-Maliki with faint praise, because if the White House objected to it, they’d simply shut it down or make some effort to discredit it – they’d be able to say, “it’s a new dawn in Iraq, with a new leader, and he needs time to get his government stood up”. Of course the Bush White House doesn’t really give a tin shit for the Iraqi people, but Ayaf Allawi would serve the dual purpose of ramming through the much-desired oil law, and buying George Bush the time he needs to shovel the whole sorry mess into his replacement’s lap.

  • ‘Still, the U.S. commander cautioned, it could take another decade before real stability is at hand.”

    What exactly is that supposed to mean? What is “real stability”? What does “at hand” mean? (It doesn’t mean “in hand.”) What is the significance of “could” and why “a decade?” I seriously doubt Petraeus has gazed into the future, where one random event or one missed variable could turn a decade into two decades or four or forever.

    All Petraeus could possibly mean is “we don’t want to leave any time soon so quit worrying about it.”

  • If they can get some traction with the al-Maliki replacement plan – and everybody knows it’s a White House initiative even though Bush continues to damn al-Maliki with faint praise, — Mark, @8

    We may suspect that it’s a WH initiative but, apparently, al-Maliki doesn’t see it that way. His venom is all against the Dems who were the first to suggest his ouster:
    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Iraq.html?hp

  • If we stay in Iraq at significant levels(including the cost of private contractors) for 10 years, it is difficult to predict which country will be closer to democracy then, the US or Iraq.

  • ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Gaius Petraeus?

    He is a public servant isn’t he?
    In other words: He is on the public dole.
    Isn’t he?

    Quite frankly I’d feel better with both:

    1) A market place assessment of the Iraq conflict.
    2) A market place solution to the Iraq conflict.

    Wouldn’t you?

    Big Pro-Government turds like…
    Bush,
    Cheney,
    And… Gaius Petraeus (who might betrayus)
    Just get in the way of the efficiency of free markets.

    Right?

    Like the name says:

  • A couple of things.

    1. General Petraeus is a political man first, and second a general.

    2. He did not pick the year 2016 lightly. It is an election year. Interesting that nine years from now just happens to be an election year.

    3. No one seems to ask him WHY nine years. Why not six? What about seventeen? Or fifty-seven. What is it about nine years more that will make the insurgency go away? Everybody keeps taking what he says at face value. Have we really become so complacent?

  • libra; it’s actually a very cunning plan, if it is a plan at all and not a random collision of events: if al-Maliki is ousted and Ayad Allawi is “elected” as their new leader, the Bush administration wins the priceless gift of time. If that doesn’t happen, al-Maliki may be seen as much less a U.S. puppet, and he may be able to build his base after showing he won’t let the Americans push him around. In that case, the Bush administration would win, too, because if he could cobble together a working government, he might get the oil law passed. It’s not likely they could come up with such a devious win/win scheme, but it’s possible – especially since they’re spending other people’s money. $300,000 for a publicity campaign to back up an Iraqi leader they knew was never going to get elected would be way cheap, if the plan succeeded.

  • 9 – 10 years

    Translation: Once 75% of Ithe raqi males that have some kind of a genetic trait for taking risks somehow wander into a fatal situation with either an Iraqi militia, police/military, or our own forces, then Iraq will look a lot less violent. Ah, political solutions.

  • They’ve got 16 days from now until the scheduled “address” before Congress by Bush’s delusionary duo of “Pet Rat and Crock-Pot.” The army they’ve got is broken; it cannot sustain another 10 months in the field as it is, much less another 10 years. The only things than can undeniably guarantee that there even IS an army to fight this protracted occupation with is to (a) reinforce both enlistments and re-enlistments, or (b) re-establish the draft.

    As long as “Option A” is still functioning—even to a minimal degree—the People will not stand up against this war to the degree necessary to force the Congress to end the war. Thus, the only method with which to terminate the occupation is to force the hand of the WH—and re-establish a draft. A “no-holds-barred” draft that will select blindly; an all-inclusive draft that will terminate the plethora of deferment options long exploited by the Right; a mandate that says “everyone serves.”

    Put a draft like that on the table, and the Iraqi Expeditionary Force will either be home—or rotated to the actual front-line of Afghanistan—within one full Friedman Unit.

    And the only way to guarantee even getting that kind of a draft into the national discussion is to cripple the ability of the army to garner enlistments and re-enlistments….

  • Dan @ 14

    Are they sure 10 years is enough?

    If so, can we set an “artificial timetable” saying we’ll be out by then?

    Hey folks, we better take it if we can get it.
    we don’t want to be here in 110 months hearing the latest general du annee saying they need just a few more years.

    I’m sure the Democrats will find this proposal entirely reasonable.
    After giving Alberto Gonzales oversight of wiretaps, this seems perfectly okay, I would think. Why the heck not?

  • Steve at @20, The Bush misadministration has another method that they prefer to put kids to “sleep” with.
    The US forces dropped a “precision” bomb on a house in Samarra killing 7 civilians, including 5 children whose ages were from 4 to 8 and 3 other children were wounded also. A US commander responded that we are just “trying to bring some level of peace to the people”, though “rest in peace” would be more accurate. Obviously not a good day to drop bombs since a US helicopter attacked 2 Kurdish police stations killing 4 policemen and wounding 8 others. Maybe in the 9 years Petraeus predicted, we will run out of Iraqis to kill. That could be their plan after all at the rate they are going. By the way, all the progress mentioned about the surge doesn’t seem to take into account that every summer since $hrub took us on his misadventure in Iraq, the violence has gone down during the summer since the temperature gets up to 140 degrees.

  • Remember that team Bush had? In Dallas? And because I don’t follow sports (except the Cubbies) I don’t remember if it was a baseball team or a football team. But okay. Supposing he’d said to investors and the people of the Dallas/FW area, “Folks, there’s been a change. We do not anticipate any wins, but in ten years we might be able to get our uniforms ironed and, like, do some press conferences.”

    I could be wrong, but I doubt he would have been elected. Particularly in Texas. Or even found someone to go out and have a beer with him…

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