John the Baptist?

September 17, 2007

I strongly believe that a person’s religious faith, or lack thereof, is a personal matter — a freedom that even extends to presidential candidates — and that someone can believe what they want, join the faith group that they want, and worship how they want.

Having said that, when Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) announced that he’s become a Baptist, after years of identifying himself as an Episcopalian, it’s curious.

Republican presidential candidate John McCain, who has long identified himself as an Episcopalian, said this weekend that he is a Baptist and has been for years.

Campaigning in this conservative, predominantly Baptist state [South Carolina], McCain called himself a Baptist when speaking to reporters Sunday and noted that he and his family have been members of the North Phoenix Baptist Church in his home state of Arizona for more than 15 years. […]

While McCain has long talked about his family’s and his own attendance at the Arizona church, he appears to have consistently referred to himself as Episcopalian in media reports.

It’s rather odd. McCain grew up Episcopalian and attended an Episcopal high school. Asked by the AP yesterday about how his Episcopal faith plays a role in his campaign and life, the senator said, “It plays a role in my life. By the way, I’m not Episcopalian. I’m Baptist.”

The point isn’t that McCain can’t leave one faith tradition for another; he certainly can. It’s also not the point that there’s somehow something wrong with being a Baptist; there isn’t. The question is here whether McCain is pandering — did he switch religious traditions to score some points with voters?

McCain told the AP that he became a Baptist years ago, but as recently as June (three months ago), McClatchy reported, “McCain still calls himself an Episcopalian.”

Indeed, every congressional directory I’ve seen — and I have quite a few collected over the last decade or so — all identify McCain as an Episcopalian. The senator’s office apparently never sought a correction for future editions, because they all say the same thing.

What’s more, McCain and his family attend the North Phoenix Baptist Church, but he’s the only member of the family who hasn’t been baptized in the church. McCain said he hasn’t because, “I didn’t find it necessary to do so for my spiritual needs.”

Not to get too theologically picky about it, but I’m fairly certain that in order to be a Baptist in a Baptist church you have to be baptized.

It seems fairly ridiculous to think a presidential candidate would claim to be a member of a faith tradition simply to curry favor with Baptists in South Carolina, but McCain’s campaign is struggling. As a candidate, he may be kind of desperate. But this desperate?

Maybe some enterprising political reporter can follow up on this. When did McCain switch his affiliation? Has he ever, before this weekend, publicly identified himself as a Baptist?

Three years ago, Howard Dean received quite a bit of scrutiny for his decision to leave his Episcopal church for a local United Church of Christ denomination. Given the circumstances, shouldn’t McCain get similar treatment?

Three years ago, Howard Dean received quite a bit of scrutiny for his decision to leave his Episcopal church for a local United Church of Christ denomination. Given the circumstances, shouldn’t McCain get similar treatment?

No. See your above statement on why:

“I strongly believe that a person’s religious faith, or lack thereof, is a personal matter — a freedom that even extends to presidential candidates — and that someone can believe what they want, join the faith group that they want, and worship how they want.”

  • God Bless Baghdad John, he doesn’t know which religion he belongs to. He is decidedly drifting toward oblivion.

  • McCain told the AP that he became a Baptist years ago, but as recently as June (three months ago), McClatchy reported, “McCain still calls himself an Episcopalian.”

    The guy is a liar! JRS Jr., the guy is dishonest, and that is everybody’s business because he is running for President, whether what he said has some religion in it or not. There could be cases where a lie told by a candidate (a little white lie to a little kid, to keep a kid from finding out there’s no Santa or something like that) wouldn’t matter, but this definitely isn’t one of them.

    The guy is an asshole!

  • Heh, like the title.

    John’s been pandering lots lately. I view his visits to the Daily Show with annoyance with his poor attempts at trying to appeal to a younger audience.

    I generally don’t give a shit about the religion of a candidate as long as they’re rather open about their connections, honest, decent and dedicated to doing their job (yeah, I know, good luck with that.) However, I do give a shit when a candidate joins a sect/cult/whatever that has a history of trying to use gubbiment to beat the heathens over the head with their beliefs (such as certain denominations of baptists have done over the years) and then makes a big F’ing deal about it.

    So much for the no religious tests portion of the US Constitution.

  • The guy really seems to be going full-bore now, what with the anti-MoveOn rhetoric and all. I think he really wants to be president and is in denial about his chances. That’s what’s motivating this. He’s trying to turn it all around after all his early-campaign sputtering and losing his staff.

  • What’s more, McCain and his family attend the North Phoenix Baptist Church, but he’s the only member of the family who has been baptized in the church. McCain said he hasn’t because, “I didn’t find it necessary to do so for my spiritual needs.”

    followed by

    Not to get too theologically picky about it, but I’m fairly certain that in order to be a Baptist in a Baptist church you have to be baptized.

  • “Not to get too theologically picky about it, but I’m fairly certain that in order to be a Baptist in a Baptist church you have to be baptized.”

    Not really. To some extent it depends on what kind of Baptist church the North Phoenix Baptist Church is, but generally speaking (and speaking as a former Baptist myself), the Baptists don’t place a whole lot of importance on the baptism ceremony– not nearly so much as Catholics do. Baptists regard baptism as a sort of public affirmation of faith that is recommended by God and therefore a good thing to do, but not at all necessary for salvation. The Baptists I have known would say that, if you’re a member of a Baptist church, you’re a Baptist.

  • “Not to get too theologically picky about it, but I’m fairly certain that in order to be a Baptist in a Baptist church you have to be baptized.”

    Not true. Historically, Baptists have held the view that there is one baptism for the forgiveness of sins regardless of when and where that baptism took place, which means that infant baptism….such as the Catholic, Episcopal, and Methodist churches practice….was accepted.

    Some of the more conservative baptists will “rebaptize” a convert on the belief that people who are not able to understand the implications of joining the church cannot be said to have been baptized at all (which includes specifically those who were baptized as infants). A few will rebaptize not only members of different denominations, but also those who join their specific congregation from other baptist churches. Falwell’s church, for example, held and practiced the latter view.

    The latter two types of baptist churches are where you will find the theological view that without being dunked, you cannot said to be “saved” to be most prevalent because they don’t know their history. It’s also these same churches that are the most sycophantically Republican of all politically involved churches.

  • Not to get too theologically picky about it, but I’m fairly certain that in order to be a Baptist in a Baptist church you have to be baptized.

    Well, according to the North Phoenix Baptist Church website, membership has two requirements:

    There are two Scriptural requirements to becoming a member of North Phoenix:
    1) You have made a profession of faith in and are a believer in Jesus Christ
    2) You have been scripturally baptized

    http://www.npbc.org/ministry/home.php?_inc=church_membership

    Scripturally batized means immersion.

    McCain said he hasn’t (been baptised) because, “I didn’t find it necessary to do so for my spiritual needs.”

    So McCain is lying about membership in this Baptist church. It’s sort of like being an American — if you don’t fulfill the citizenship requirements, you aren’t an American, no matter what you say.

  • “Not to get too theologically picky about it, but I’m fairly certain that in order to be a Baptist in a Baptist church you have to be baptized.”

    John McCain, I baptize you, in the name of The Lord Jesus Christ!!

    There. It doesn’t matter he didn’t read it.

  • It’s pathetic that Republican canidates even need to worry to about who they are, and what their faith is within thier own party, this demonstrates clearly that the right wing social cons are in control of the Republcian party.

  • McCain is also a Jew on Long Island, a Catholic in Boston, and a medicine man in Indian Country. What a total moron.

    JRSjr – When an athiest polls as well as a Methodist and the retarded right does not go new-clear everytime a candidate fails to thank God for all that is good and blame a liberal for all that is bad, then religion will be a private matter.

    Shouldn’t every religious American be deeply offended at McCain’s actions becuase instead of faith in God his actions seem to show use of religion a as political tool?

  • We’re all Christ-fearing Baptists who would never do something like lie about our denomination to confuse a bunch of voters because that might annoy God a lot!!

  • “I’ve always been a Southerner,” McCain added in a newly noticeable drawl, “And a NASCAR fan, too.” The Senator paused to eat hominy grits from a plate on the podium. “As far as I’m concerned, Robert E. Lee had some bad breaks and this country is poorer for that.”

  • Pingback: Blog of the Moderate Left » John McCain has Seen the Light

  • Here’s an article online from Time magazine in 2000 – it’s interesting and could support either claim

    LINK

    Monday, Mar. 13, 2000
    McCain’s Faith: “I Pray Regularly”
    By David Van Biema With Reporting By John F. Dickerson, With McCain

    The 10-minute tape is hardly clandestine, but it’s not in heavy news rotation either. Two silver-haired men chat in a cozy office. Dan Yeary, pastor of the North Phoenix Baptist Church, calls it “a blessing” to include his companion “in our family and our fellowship.” He asks if they might talk about prayer.

    “Sure,” says John McCain. He explains that at the Hanoi Hilton “those of us who gained our spiritual help and strength through God seemed to do better physically than those who basically gave up.” Then he describes his practice now. “I pray regularly, and I don’t have to be getting ready for bed, to be getting up in the morning. I seize opportunities throughout the day.” He often prays in thanks for a full life, he says. “I haven’t always succeeded; I’ve failed many times. But because the foundation of your and my belief is redemption, I’ve been able to receive additional comfort, strength and the desire to move forward again.”

    Such talk, taped in 1998 for internal church use, would be no surprise from George W. Bush or Al Gore. But from McCain, who has remained discreet about his current faith while waging one of the more religiously contentious primary runs in history, it is revealing. His close relationship with Yeary’s church is unknown even to many Phoenix politicos and pastors.

    McCain’s great-grandfather was an Episcopal minister, and his father prayed twice daily–on his knees. Despite McCain’s Episcopal heritage, however, the service he attends–“every time he’s in town; John is faithful in worship,” says Yeary–is the 9 a.m. Sunday “contemporary” gathering at North Phoenix Baptist. The megachurch is part of the Southern Baptist Convention. More moderate than Bob Jones University, the S.B.C. is still scripturally and socially conservative. One prominent member is McCain target Jerry Falwell.

    McCain began attending Baptist services in Tempe, Ariz., before moving to Phoenix. “I just liked the church,” he says. The four youngest McCain children are Baptists. Still, McCain maintains his Episcopalianism. Richard Jackson, pastor emeritus of North Phoenix, is not bothered. “I’m concerned about a person’s relationship with Christ,” he says, “and I was convinced he had that personal faith.” McCain, he judges, “is not a biblically versed, mature Christian. He’s a novice scripturally. But the Hanoi Hilton is not a seminary.”

    “I don’t go [to church] as much as I would like,” McCain told TIME. When he and his wife Cindy do attend, they usually sit behind the youth section, where they can get in and out unobtrusively. “He does not seek attention,” says Yeary. “If I tried to recognize him, he might chastise me.” Arizona Congressman J.D. Hayworth, a former North Phoenix member who has prayed with McCain, contends that the candidate’s trademark candor extends to his faith. “You read the Psalms, you see how David is brutally honest with God,” he says. “That’s John. He doesn’t keep anything from the Creator any more than from the rest of us.”

    –By David Van Biema. With reporting by John F. Dickerson, with McCain

  • Pingback: The Right’s Field » John McCain, Unbaptized Baptist?

  • phoebe

    Nope, he isn’t a Baptist. Joining a Baptist Church is a BIG deal — I know because I grew up Southern Baptist. It’s a formal step, an oath of commitment to the “statement of faith”, and requires immersion baptism. He thinks if his family members are Baptist he can claim he is, too, even if he hasn’t formally taken that commitment step. By analogy, that means because I’m Independent, all my family who’s registered Democrat or Republican are really Independents, too.

    It’s really not here or there that he hasn’t joined though. The glaring lie is that he claims he’s a Baptist when he isn’t — in a VERY Baptist state where he’s campaigning. He deserves a smack alongside the head.

  • What a maverick!

    I bet he uses a salad fork when he goes to church.

    Just watch. You never know with the guy.

  • Baptism after death, Edo? I think that’s CoS (Church of Satan). Maybe some really bizarre vampire/were-republican thing. But no matter what the man says, John McCain is no Baptist. It matters not how many times you walk into a house of worship; you’re not a member until you join, and McCain hasn’t taken that “leap of faith” yet (too many Episcopalian votes to lose). If he does it now, just to prove a point, he’ll be political roadkill.

    As if he’s not already, though….

  • Pandering?

    As a registered Independent living in the State of Arizona, just let me say this.

    I am REALLY embarrassed!

  • “Baptism after death, Edo?I think that’s CoS (Church of Satan). ”

    I understadn the surprise, but actually that would be the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints aka the Mormon Church. They have a long history of doing such things, especially to those of the Jewish faith, without family consent. Google it and there really is a lot out there onthe topic. Bizarre stuff.

  • bubba

    Yep, the Mormons also marry people after they’ve died, even if they never knew each other. Many years ago I taught school in Idaho, one state north of Utah, and there were many Mormons in that area. The talk of the town that year was about a nearby Mormon family whose son had been killed in an auto accident marrying him to the deceased daughter of another Mormon family. The wedding took place in the Tabernacle in Salt Lake City. I thought that was the weirdest thing in religion I’d ever heard about.

  • Unfortunately, when a Republican becomes a Baptist, there is indeed “something wrong”. As proof I refer the reader to any response they get to googling “Christian Right,” all of whose major leaders and member organizations at Baptists. Mostly of the slavery-defending Southern Baptist varaiety, aka the American Taliban.

  • So McCain left the Episcopal Church. A flood of others have also left. My beloved Episcopal Church, which I joined at 15, has become totally secular. I also baptized my children in that denomination. My daughter is now evangelical, my sons are Antiochian Orthidox, I am Roman Catholic.

  • I am not surprised by any responses by john mccain on his religion or any promises that he would keep God forbid he became our next president.
    Just another snake oil salesman trying to seduce the electorate.

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