Ahmadinejad speaks

Putting aside the question of whether Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad should be able to visit Ground Zero, the other controversy of the week involved whether Ahmadinejad should be a guest at Columbia University in New York. The right has argued, vociferously, that the university is misguided for providing a platform to a dangerous nut. His ideas should be shunned, most conservatives argue, not considered in an academic setting.

I understand the argument, but I find wholly unpersuasive. Ahmadinejad is, regrettably, the head of state of a nation with tremendous geo-political significance. His perspective, no matter how offensive, matters. It is entirely consistent with American traditions and values to subject Ahmadinejad’s oppressive ideas to scrutiny. Let him defend his beliefs in an open setting, standing or falling on their own merit.

Critics were unable to shut down Ahmadinejad’s appearance today, and by all accounts, that was most certainly a positive development.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad took the stage at Columbia University on Monday to a blistering reception from the president of the school, who said the hard-line leader behaved like “a petty and cruel dictator.”

Ahmadinejad smiled as Columbia President Lee Bollinger took him to task over Iran’s human-rights record and foreign policy, and Ahmadinejad’s statements denying the Holocaust and calling for the disappearance of Israel.

“Mr. President, you exhibit all the signs of a petty and cruel dictator,” Bollinger said, to loud applause. He said Ahmadinejad’s denial of the Holocaust might fool the illiterate and ignorant.

“When you come to a place like this it makes you simply ridiculous,” Bollinger said. “The truth is that the Holocaust is the most documented event in human history.”

Ahmadinejad, not surprisingly, protested the introduction, calling Bollinger “rude,” and his comments “an insult to information and the knowledge of the audience here.”

Which is fine. It’s part of a free exchange. Bollinger thinks Ahmadinejad is insane, and said so. Ahmadinejad thinks Bollinger is insulting, and said so. I’m a big fan of lively debate.

And it got even livelier during the Q&A with students.

If you haven’t seen it, consider this clip (via Aravosis):

For those of you who can’t watch video clips from work, a student asked about the treatment of gays in Iran — as a rule, they’re executed — and Ahmadinejad responded, “In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country.”

Did you notice the crowd’s reaction? The students were laughing at him. Ahmadinejad became the subject of mockery and ridicule, simply by showing up and stating his ridiculous beliefs.

It’s exactly why Columbia was right to extend the invitation. What better way to make a fool of Ahmadinejad than to offer him a microphone?

I wonder why conservatives haven’t considered making homosexuality a capital crime in order to “cure” all gays overnight.

It’s so odd the conservatives object to this man who is so clearly able to show them the way towards accomplishing their goal of a more moral America.

  • I get what you’re saying, CB, but I disagree. Columbia shouldn’t have hosted this scumbag, and there are two reasons why.

    First, it’s unfair to the students and the people who work at the university–one of whom is my wife, I’ll acknowledge up front. They’re badly inconvenienced by all the security requirements, and struggling in an environment not really suitable for work or learning. And though things seem to have gone off without any major hitches, there was obviously some risk of chaos or violence that would not have been present without this nutbag spewing his hate.

    Second, while I support his right to speak in our country–while noting that NONE of us would have that right in his–I don’t think it was necessary or helpful for Columbia to legitimize him with a platform. If that puts me in a bundle with the idiots on the right, so be it. But he has a forum to speak; it’s the UN, and he’ll do that tomorrow. All Columbia has done is make itself an easier target for said right-wing idiots–not to mention costing itself millions in canceled alumni donations. What that means is less money for financial aid, professors’ salaries, physical plant services, and everything else that’s crucial to maintaining a world-class university.

    This was a bad call by Bollinger. I credit him for good intentions, but he showed no common sense here.

  • I’ll add, though, that the clip–which I watched after my earlier comment–does support your side of the argument. Funny stuff, and pretty much a classic case for the value of free speech in an enlightened society.

  • It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it.
    Aristotle

  • Absolutely agree, CB. Same thing with the wreath. This is why conservatives are making fools out of themselves by opposing this. This shows why free speech is good, too. The guy’s an asshole? Fine. Let him make an asshole out of himself.

  • This is why conservatives are making fools out of themselves by opposing this.

    If they want people to not oppose attacking Iran, they couldn’t do a better job than by letting this guy speak for himself.

  • The objection of Ahmadinejad speaking in front of an American audience was made by people worried that he would steel their issues and agenda from them. His views are not unlike the fringe of the American Right – which by the way have taken over the Republican party. -Kevo

  • First of all, to stop people from screaming at me, my father was a Jew who was lucky enough to get out of Germany in 1934.

    But my question is:
    What is the difference between
    1) denying the Holocaust?
    2) denying global warming?
    3) denying evolution?
    4) denying the link between smoking and cancer?

    I am not downplaying the millions of people who died. I am just saying that for #1, #3, and #4 there is overwhelming evidence. Why do we treat the people who deny evolution more deference than people who deny the holocaust?

  • Bill “Rage Boy of the Catholics” Donahue was on the Today Show this morning decrying just how awful and horrible Iran treats homosexuals. Since when did Rage Boy Donahue become an ardent defender of the rights of the homosexual community?

    As Bart Simpson might say “the ironing is delicious…”

  • First, one should note that, as the right complains bitterly about Columbia giving a forum to a dangerous nut, they, too, have does exactly the same thing via their own collection of “mad hatters.” In the absolute-ness of relativity, what did Columbia do that Fox News has not done? That the Bush administration has not done? That whack-jobs like Spew Hewitt and Flush Limbaugh have not done?

    Methinks the pot has grown accustomed to calling the kettle black.

    But the greater danger here—the insurmountable fear exhibited by the right; the morbid terror that they choose not to discuss—is that the clamorous rejection of Mr. Ahmadinejad offers the People of this Republic the opportunity to reclaim their political voice against a corrupt, evil, criminal government. They fear that the lesson in verbally renouncing Iran’s head-of-state may carry over, with large groups openly rejecting—in like terms, and with equal vociferousness—the Bush administration.

    The American Revolution led to the French Revolution. Perhaps openly rejecting the “Oaf of Tehran” will likewise lead to a full rejection of the “Oaf of Pennsylvania Avenue….”

  • At what point do we go from trying to ban the speech of those who visit this country to those who live in or are citizens of this country? Is what Ahmadinejad says any more offensive than what the Fred Phelps contingent is doing at military funerals? I don’t know, but I can’t remember hearing a huge outcry against Phelps from the same people who practically want to burn Ahmadinejad at the stake – but maybe I missed it.

    Do words matter? Of course they do – so do actions. I would like to think that we are strong enough and secure enough in the principles that have guided us for so long that we are not frightened by, or feel the need to censor, the words of someone whose views we don’t agree with.

    I would, frankly, be more offended by the Saudis wanting to lay wreaths at Ground Zero than this chucklehead. And more offended by Fred Phelps and by the American Nazi Party than by this guy.

    I guess in a country where a person can be arrested for wearing an anti-Bush t-shirt, it’s not so surprising that people would get themselves so worked up by someone like Ahmadinejad.

  • All Columbia has done is make itself an easier target for said right-wing idiots–not to mention costing itself millions in canceled alumni donations

    I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not sure we should allow ourselves to be held hostage to the silly whims of rightwingers. They don’t care at all about his politics and what he believes, and many of them are just as likely to be in complete agreement with him on many issues. They only dislike him because he’s on their latest hit list.

    I personally think it’s better to humanize jackasses like this, rather than allow the right to turn them into faceless monsters.

  • Any reason that #8 neil wilson, item #2 : global warming was excluded? It seems to me there is overwhelming evidence for all four items you mention. But given the controversy over Ahmadinejad’s visit, I wouldn’t call this deference. More like calculated strategy.

  • Wow, Ahmadinejad sounds as out of touch with reality as Bush does. Scarey… but we’re better off knowing.

  • I find the irony so rich, the right doesn’t want Ahmadinejad speaking at a higher education center although their views are quite similar on homosexuality and plenty of other topics including the role of religion in politics and evolution.

    Yet they some how convince their followers that the left has more in common with Ahmadinejad then they do. It’s proof that a functional mind has no business on the right-hand side of the road.

  • They fear that the lesson in verbally renouncing Iran’s head-of-state may carry over, with large groups openly rejecting—in like terms, and with equal vociferousness—the Bush administration.

    I’d think, if anything, they’d fear the Iranians throwing off these guys before US troops are there to “liberate” them (and help a bunch of rich American assholes steal a bunch of Iranian and American money, like they’re doing in Iraq).

    But I think it’s not that that’s got the right so fed up- what’s really going on is when they went to their people for advice about what to do when Ahmadinejad cam and speak, probably they’re stupid, unthinking reaction was just “Don’t let him do it” and now the advisors feel stupid because it’s become even more obvious that we could do a little better jiu-jitsu by letting the guy speak. They just don’t want to look dumb.

  • I hate to state the obvious, but all of these rabid protesters look and sound like an Iranian mob. Ahmadinejad should feel at home. Talk about irony.

  • Conservatives cannot handle positions that differ from theirs. If they can’t shout their opponents down, they put their fingers in their ears and scream, No! No! No! Anything outside of conservatism is dangerous and must be prohibited; anything conservative cannot be questioned. These are the people we share our country with and we better learn to deal with them because they’ve certainly learned to deal with us.

  • Doctor Biobrain, #12:

    I understand what you’re saying, but I’m not sure we should allow ourselves to be held hostage to the silly whims of rightwingers. They don’t care at all about his politics and what he believes, and many of them are just as likely to be in complete agreement with him on many issues. They only dislike him because he’s on their latest hit list.

    I hear what you’re saying, and I don’t disagree. My problem with this mostly is that it was scary and unpleasant for my wife, and I think this was a self-inflicted wound for Columbia.

    At the margin, I do think it’s probably mroe harmful than helpful to make it so easy for the whackadoos on the right, but that’s a minor consideration here.

  • First, kudos to Neil Wilson at # 8 for an excellent point, which should be drilled into the heads of nutjobs every time they open their quacking beaks to yammer “but he denied the holocaust!!”. Maybe he did, and maybe he didn’t – I don’t speak his language, so I couldn’t say for sure. I have, however, seen some pretty crappy translations come out of U.S. intel when crappy translation suited the occasion – remember Colin Powell excitedly showcasing that conversation between Iraqi bigwigs that had them saying silly stuff like, “Did you remember to move the cache of secret weapons and prohibited gases from unmentionable area X-19, Mahmoud?” Of course, that’s not what the individuals said at all.

    Similarly, the claim that Ahmadenijad said Israel should be wiped off the map has been repeatedly debunked, by people who do speak Ahmadenijad’s language – apparently everywhere but heartland America, where people insist on repeating it. Just like Saddam’s involvement in 9-11, the falsehood has been repeated so many times that it has become the truth; no amount of setting the record straight would do now.

    I’m not an Ahmadenijad fan, either, but these sort of performances are making him appear measured and reasonable. How much of an assrocket do you have to behave like to achieve that?

  • My hat’s off to Columbia for staring down the right-wing lions, not tasering students, and allowing the Iranian maniac to make a fool out of himself. If Bush went in front of similar audiences he too would be laughed out the door, but his are always preselected and carefully screened.

    There is a little free speech left in this country, other than the blogosphere, but you have to look hard for it. I remember in 1964 the Governor of Mississippi, a stauch segregationist, was invited to speak at my undergraduate alma mater, a decidedly left of center institution providing outspoken support for the civil rights movement. The invitation was offered by our student government and supported by our super WASP president who thought it was a good idea for both sides to be confronted by the other in a controlled setting. There were some ugly moments, but no violence. And each side got to see what it was up against. If such confrontations are not healthy for democracy then I don’t know what is.

    Congratulations to Columbia. And they can afford to lose a few millions in alumni donations. That should never even have been considered, and evidently wasn’t given much weight.

  • I thought Bollinger was inexcusably rude and boorish in his introductory remarks. Are we really championing the free exchange of opinions and ideas when we take the time to condemn those we don’t agree with before they even speak?

    You’d think Bollinger was a shill for the right wing. I was really shocked and appalled when I heard his introductory remarks. Has he no manners? Would you ever treat an invited guest to your house like this?

    What’s happened to this country, anyway? Seems like 9/11 has turned us into a militaristic, bigoted, bloodthirsty lot of angry, warmongering cretins.

  • Well said, hark. As I recall, the British sailors who were held for unlawful trespass (which is still debatable, as the boundaries in that region seem a little on the mushy side) and possible spying – that gets you the waterboard if the Americans capture you. They were sent home with new suits and a bag of presents. Displaying the apparent ignorance of good manners you describe highlights the current atmosphere of insecurity and fear.

    Yes, the detention of the Brits and their subsequent release was a propaganda exercise, but so is this, and who comes out looking good on this one is already a foregone conclusion.

  • I agree that it was right to let him speak. If he was not allowed to speak due to protests by the right then how does that make it any different than the censorship present in Iran? At least we have some semblance of democracy left.

    I agreed with is comments on Palestinian oppression at the hands of Israel but his comment that homosexuality is “a phenomenon” in the U.S. shredded any credibility he had as an academic before taking the podium.

  • “The right has argued, vociferously, that the university is misguided for providing a platform to a dangerous nut. His ideas should be shunned, most conservatives argue, not considered in an academic setting.”

    Is that *really* the policy the right wants to impose on public discourse? Because under that policy, many on the right would find themselves sealed into a giant can of ShutTheFuckUp…

  • Bollinger went off on Amahdinejad to get cred with the partisan mob outside. His “insults” were partially off-target as it is the clerics who are the dictators in Iran, not the president. The real point, however, is that he would surely not level the same whiny fusillade at the Premier of China or any other deserving, oppressive state functionary who might speak at Columbia, but in the case of the Middle East, there are those donations that dajafi speaks of.

  • Ahmadinejad has not denied the holocaust nor threatened Israel. You all seem a little captured by the US/Israeli media operation.

  • […] Ahmadinejad responded, “In Iran, we don’t have homosexuals like in your country.”

    He may have stated nothing more than a simple truth, if the estimates that 400 thousand had been executed are correct.

  • The real reason the right wingers didn’t want Amadinejad to speak at the university was because they worried that the students and faculty would be agreeing with him. After all, they’ve been accusing Democrats of being in cahoots with Ahmadinejad.

    I wonder if the right wingers figured out, after Ahmadinejad’s appearance was over, that he actually stands for the same things the right wingers do? I doubt it, maybe they need to read some of the posts here in order to see how much they are alike.

  • I thought the irony was in how much the rightwingers whine about Creationists getting laughed out of college, and saying it’s some sort of bigotry that keeps them from being employed… And yet here they are, saying Columbia shouldn’t get its funding because someone they didn’t like spoke there.

    Pot and kettle, indeed.

    Anyone know of a transcript?

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