Bush sticks to the script: ‘This government does not torture people’

With the debate over U.S. torture policy back on the front page, the president took a few moments this morning to address the controversy. He made four general points.

* First, Bush is detaining bad guys: “[W]hen we find somebody who may have information regarding an — a potential attack on America, you bet we’re going to detain them, and you bet we’re going to question them.” So far so good.

* Second, he is opposed to torture: “Secondly, this government does not torture people. You know, we stick to U.S. law and our international obligations.” There’s a large body of evidence that suggests this is false.

* Third, don’t worry, we know what we’re doing: “Thirdly, there are highly trained professionals questioning these extremists and terrorists. In other words, we got professionals who are trained in this kind of work to get information that will protect the American people.” That’s patently false. As the NYT reported yesterday,

With virtually no experience in interrogations, the C.I.A. had constructed its program in a few harried months by consulting Egyptian and Saudi intelligence officials and copying Soviet interrogation methods long used in training American servicemen to withstand capture. The agency officers questioning prisoners constantly sought advice from lawyers thousands of miles away.

“We were getting asked about combinations — ‘Can we do this and this at the same time?'” recalled Paul C. Kelbaugh, a veteran intelligence lawyer who was deputy legal counsel at the C.I.A.’s Counterterrorist Center from 2001 to 2003.

Interrogators were worried that even approved techniques had such a painful, multiplying effect when combined that they might cross the legal line, Mr. Kelbaugh said. He recalled agency officers asking: “These approved techniques, say, withholding food, and 50-degree temperature — can they be combined?” Or “Do I have to do the less extreme before the more extreme?”

Bush gave the green light to intelligence officials who had no idea how to use abusive interrogation techniques. “Highly trained professionals”? Not in this field, they weren’t.

* And fourth, this wasn’t done in secret: “And finally, the techniques that we use have been fully disclosed to appropriate members of the United States Congress.”

That’s dubious, too.

The White House has been sticking to this line since the NYT story broke. Yesterday, Dana Perino insisted relevant lawmakers had been briefed, and today she went even further, telling reporters that members of Congress, including Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman John Rockefeller (D-W. Va.), had been “fully briefed” on the secret legal opinions. When a reporter asked, “Fully briefed on the actual memos?” Perino responded, “Yes.”

Rockefeller believes differently, and issued a statement rejecting the White House line.

The Administration can’t have it both ways. I’m tired of these games. They can’t say that Congress has been fully briefed while refusing to turn over key documents used to justify the legality of the program.

The reality is, the Administration refused to disclose the program to the full Committee for five years, and they have refused to turn over key legal documents since day one. As I have said from the beginning, Congress has a constitutional responsibility to determine whether the program is the best means for obtaining reliable information, whether it is fully supported by the law, and whether it is in the best interest of the United States.

Maybe Bush meant that Republican lawmakers were briefed?

Bush gave the green light to intelligence officials who had no idea how to use abusive interrogation techniques.

That’s one of the few reassuring facts to come out of this whole mess. When Bush rubbed his hands in glee and said now let’s start torturing the shit out of people, we had no idea how to go about it.

But Bush’s “thirdly” may very well be true now.

  • “I’m tired of these games.”

    Me too, Jay. Yeah, and I’m looking at you, dumbass. “These games” have been going on for a LONG time, and you’ve been sitting there doing nothing but making noises. Time to uphold your oath or step down.

  • Of course in his mind (however tiny) he believes this. Of course, that just goes to show that his definition of torture is not necessarily what was meant by torture traditionally in the US or even what is meant by torture as defined Internationally or by most average people. And republicans still bash Clinton over that parsing of “is.”

  • Of course “fully briefed” means nothing when you’re dealing with guys who refuse to testify under oath or with any form of transcript. I wouldn’t be surprised if they said “you can see the memo but only in a room with no light.”

    Please, Dems, you’ve been played for chumps for SO LONG. Please don’t prove them right.

  • So far so good.

    Fuck that. I don’t trust a goddamn thing coming out of that miscreant’s pie-hole. Unlike our Reich Wing Authoritarian friends, I despise American Tyranny.

  • Okay, I’ll bite. If not people, then who? -sarabeth

    Nice catch on the qualifier. I’m sure they don’t consider terrorists people…well, anyone with brown skin, for that matter.

  • We don’t torture.

    Okay. Plug in Bush’s definition of torture and what do we get?:

    We don’t [employ techniques of interrogation “equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury, such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death.”]

    I guess we don’t.

  • When wingnuts see a guy with a banana shoved up his ass they usually say, “That’s too good for these people. They chop people’s heads off on videotape!”

    When I hear that, I like to say, “Did that come out in trial? I must have missed that.”

    Trial? Oh, yeah… there was no trial.

    See, for them, a banana in your ass is all the proof they need to find you guilty. After all, would we shove a banana up a guys ass if he didn’t deserve it?

  • After all the songs and dances we’ve been subjected to by White House briefers, I fully expect them to parse the hell out of any statement they make. “This government does not torture people.” “We don’t torture people.” I’m looking at these like Sarabeth. I see loopholes when Perino and Bush use terms like “we” and “this government:” do those words include or exclude the CIA. Do they understand that “enhanced interrogation techniques” are torure, or are they splitting hairs here. Does the word “people” refer to all human beings on the planet or just those who they do not describe as criminals, terrorists or extremists? I am so tired of this adminsitrations constant games of verbal CYA and parsing.

  • Bush: “We don’t torture people.”

    To Bush and his Psychophantic Circus, the above comment is 100% correct. In a way, it could be said that they’re not “lying”—because in their mindset, anyone who does not agree with them; anyone who does not partake of their daily koolaid ration and wander about aimlessly, dragging their knuckles on the floor and hanging on every word that flows from the primordial ooze that is FoxNews and the like——-

    ——-is not a person.

    The Republic currently stands witness to an administration—and the political enterprise of that party, neither recognizable nor definable as a “party”—that has increasingly demonstrated its intent to isolate racial minorities, reducing them to an almost non-citizen status. It also bears factual, experiential knowledge of equal examples of what can be defined as no less than ideological bigotry on a psychophantic scale, meted out not only against anyone who does not march in lockstep with the administration, but also against anyone who—for even the slightest shred of fantasized reason—“might” choose to stray from the razor-edge talking points of the White House and its neoconservative allies.

    To them, the new defining phrase of what makes a human being is “Homo Neocon.”

    Anything less is not human.

    Anything less is not a person.

    Anything less is susceptible to torture, at the whim of this administration, and they can say with absolute truthful certainty—–

    —–“We don’t torture people.”

    Contemplate the dangers to the planet, should this mentality be allowed to persist in a nation that currently possesses enough nuclear weapons to incinerate that planet three or four times over. Consider the ramifications of a government so bent on its ideological superiority that it would dare embrace total annihilation, envisioned as “rapture” by many, that it envisions its own destruction as victory, if that destruction is “assuredly mutual” for its myriad enemies.

    A philosophy of “It’s okay if we all die, because we likewise kill all of our enemies—so we win!”

    A philosophy of death. That is what this administration has become—a religion of death. A theology of the grave.

    And we see ourselves as being so fundamentally different from the likes of bin Laden—how?

  • Aaaah but….Cheney said waterboarding is a no-brainer.

    And Cheney is the real president while Bush is merely the presidential face – least that is exactly what Dick Cheney said right after 9/11 on Meet the Press with Tim Russert.

    Impeachment should be on the table but Dems will ride this administration to the next election on all the bad news, the GOP will let them – front page after front page of bad news.

    Then again – I can’t really blame Dems – the Repugs were so powerful and severe in their complete and total control that Dems are wanting pay back – in spades too.

    It appears as if the Republican Party is headed to another, possible voilent splitting up of radicals – pro-choice Rudy is dividing conservative voters between Christian vs neo-con – and strange too that the Rudy isn’t really doing anything but rallying to a sub-group of radicals with intent to rally to nobody else he doesnt’ have to, he’s the new “decider”. Nobody will cry if the Repugs end up in as a bunch of individual, radical, irrelevent, third party nutballs. Why shouldn’t history simply showed that Bush and Cheney destroyed the GOP – while the GOP dutifully helped Bushism to destory it too, all following piped pippers three, Reynolds, Brooks and Broder’s nightmare column beats, “Off the cliff we go, one by one, hurrah, hurrah, hurrah… and the last man left is treasonous, hurrah, hurrah, hurrah.”

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