Bush slammed for ecumenicalism

October 10, 2007

Someone asked me the other day if I could think of something, anything, nice to say about the president. After pondering the question for a bit, I said the first thing that came to mind: for all his fear-mongering, the president has been fairly good at resisting the temptation to demonize religious minorities, most notably Muslims. He doesn’t even use the phrase “Islamo-fascism,” apparently aware of how the phrase is perceived.

This was fresh in my mind because I’d read about Bush’s Oval Office interview last week with Al Arabiya, the satellite TV channel based in Dubai, United Arab Emirates.

Touting his Iftaar Dinner last night for an evening breaking of the Ramadan fast, Bush refuted any notion in this interview intended for Arab home viewing that he is out to destroy Islam.

“I’ve heard that, and it just shows [sic] to show a couple of things: One, that the radicals have done a good job of propagandizing. In other words, they’ve spread the word that this really isn’t peaceful people versus radical people or terrorists, this is really about the America not liking Islam.

“Well, first of all, I believe in an almighty God, and I believe that all the world, whether they be Muslim, Christian, or any other religion, prays to the same God,” he said. “I believe that Islam is a great religion that preaches peace. And I believe people who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives aren’t religious people.

“I want to remind your listeners that one of the first things I did after September the 11th is I went to the local mosque. And I did because I wanted to send a message that those who came to kill Americans were young terrorists, and they do not reflect the views of the vast majority of peaceful people in the Middle East.”

Later, in the same interview, the president added, “I believe there is a universal God. I believe the God that the Muslim prays to is the same God that I pray to. After all, we all came from Abraham. I believe in that universality.”

After seeing Bush explain his support for the Abrahamic tradition, I thought the right showed great restraint in not going completely berserk.

Alas, it didn’t last long.

Cal Thomas, the prominent far-right syndicated columnist, is not happy.

It is one thing to try to reach out to moderate and sincerely peaceful Muslims. It is quite another to say the claims of your own faith are of no greater importance than the often contradictory claims of another faith. If we all worship the same God, the president should answer the call of Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad and Osama bin Laden, convert to Islam and no longer be a target of their wrath. What difference would it make if we all worship the same God? […]

How can the president say we all worship the same God when Muslims deny the divinity of Jesus, whom the president accepts as the One through whom all must pass for salvation? Do both political parties have the same beliefs? Are all baseball teams equal (clearly not, because only two will go to the World Series)?

The president can be commended for sincerely reaching out to Muslims, but he should not be commended for watering down his beliefs and the doctrines of his professed faith to do so. That’s universalism. There are “churches” that believe in universalism, his Methodist church does not. No Christian who believes the Bible believes in universalism. And No Muslim who believes the Koran does either.

President Bush is wrong — dangerously wrong — in proclaiming that all religions worship the same God.

The fact that Cal Thomas seems to be the only leading religious conservative stepping up to hammer Bush over this suggests the religious right, even now, is still willing to cut the president all kinds of slack.

Put it this way: if Hillary Clinton or Barack Obama had said Christians, Jews, and Muslims all pray to the same God, do you think Dobson & Co. might raise a bit of a fuss?

What Mr. Thomas misses is that in proclaiming that all religions worship the same God –Bush is really saying that everyone should worship him.

  • “I believe there is a universal God. I believe the God that the Muslim prays to is the same God that I pray to. After all, we all came from Abraham. I believe in that universality.”

    And bugger the Hindus? Or the Buddhists?

  • Bush delivered on the SCOTUS appointments (after a halting start with Miers), he’s golden with them forever.

  • No one has a monoply on the divine. If only the more dogmatic among us would realize this, we’d be making a lot more peace than war. -Kevo

  • president has been fairly good at resisting the temptation to demonize religious minorities, most notably Muslims. He doesn’t even use the phrase “Islamo-fascism,” apparently aware of how the phrase is perceived.

    But that’s a fig leaf- that’s to make more of us less sure he needs to be opposed vigorously. It’s one of a few very small concessions out of a whole lot of bad practices and bad policy carrying real-world consequences.

  • you tell ’em, cal. YOUR imaginary friend is bigger, stronger, and more important than their imaginary friend!

  • Later, in the same interview, the president added, “I believe there is a universal God. I believe the God that the Muslim prays to is the same God that I pray to. After all, we all came from Abraham. I believe in that universality.”

    If only the perp had said Lucy instead of Abraham…

  • “Are all baseball teams equal (clearly not, because only two will go to the World Series)?”

    No… But All baseball teams believe in baseball you idiot so your analogy like your divisive perceptions are totally misguided. Your Christian god doesn’t even have a name unless you call him the god of Abraham. O course we all worship the same God you goober…we just define this God differently..it’s your perceptions that differ not your worship. I don’t believe that Bush even believes what he said but it was a good answer. You are the separation of being spiritual and being religious…you have to be divisive and preach about the other…so we know who it is we are to hate. Just pathetic godspeakers at their worst.

  • Someone may want to tell Cal Thomas that Muslims, Jews and Christians do, in fact, worship the exact same god. That’s not up for debate — it’s a fact.

    The prophet issue is where they diverge since, you know, Jesus wasn’t/isn’t/never will be “God.” He was just the spokesman (if you’re Christian).

    Anyone too dumb to know that really shouldn’t chime in on the topic.

  • “I want to remind your listeners that one of the first things I did after September the 11th is I went to the local mosque. And I did because I wanted to send a message that those who came to kill Americans were young terrorists, and they do not reflect the views of the vast majority of peaceful people in the Middle East.”

    Yeah right.

    You went to a mosque because your closest handlers (Read: Rove) suggested it.
    You didn’t want to… but you trusted Rove’s opinion enough to at least listen him out.
    (You’d have said: Go oink yourself to anyone else suggesting such a thing.)
    Rove made the point that you could use the event as ammo in the future.
    Having bullets to shoot off later always worked magic with your psyche today…
    (Rove had a way of understanding your darkest persona. He knew which corner of your sty–mind to shine his light.)
    Today you dared to fire off a few of those shells.
    It all rings hollow…

    More better Presidents please.
    This one is just too inane.

    The best thing Bush can do for the rest of his term is keep his mouth shut.

    Karl… please tell him that posthaste.
    He might still listen to you.

  • Someone asked me the other day if I could think of something, anything, nice to say about the president.

    Now, CB, just how long and deep did you have to dig to answer this one? I, personally, think that Bush ought to be doing more to make people think he’s “nice” but daggone if he doesn’t keep blowing it. He blows the dignity of the presidency by farting at his aides and thinks it’s hilarious. He has a vile temper and curses a lot. He and Cheney are Siamese twins in this respect. If he wants people to think he likes them, he puts his hands on them to grab/rub parts of them (Andrea Merkel, children, and bald men). He thinks the Constitution is nothing but a goddamned piece of paper.

    Hey, he isn’t prejudiced against Muslims — some of his best buddies are members of the bin Laden and Saudi royal families. He kills them only if they’re citizens of a country that has untold oil resources that he wants.

    But more importantly you left out his love for dogs — Barney!

  • Someone may want to tell Cal Thomas that Muslims, Jews and Christians do, in fact, worship the exact same god. That’s not up for debate — it’s a fact.

    Ayup – as do Mormons, Ba’hai, and a number of other splinter faiths that have come along over the centuries.

    I mean, this is basic stuff. You can claim that their religion is wrong, and most religions do claim that all other religions are wrong (heck, even Christians claim that other Christians are wrong, and Sunni Muslims claim that Shia are wrong, etc.), but they’re all following the same “God of Abraham”.

    What a stupid man Cal Thomas is.

  • Sort of on topic. The one nice thing I can say about Bush is he got me to pay attention to politics and to dig deep for the truth. I used to think that no one administration could screw things up too badly given our 200+ year system of checks and balances. I don’t take that for granted anymore!

  • I gotta believe there are at least as many gods as there are people who believe in one, some, many or none. Even those who are orthodox within some established religion ascribe many different qualities to their god. Some believe their god fiddles in sporting events, and others not, for example. I don’t think people have the same concept of god at all. There is something truly odd about saying we all pray to the same God, when we have no idea what that god is like, or even whether one exists.

    I don’t intend to demean those of faith. But there’s something just troubling about what Bush said. I think he means well, but he’s establishing some acceptable form of orthodoxy for the entire human race. First of all, there’s a presumption here of inclusion, the good guys, who all worship this same god, and one of exclusion, the bad guys, those who fall outside of this group. Someone above pointed out there are billions of outsiders, too. Secondly, I don’t understand why we limit ourselves to a religious framework established thousands of years ago by primitive folks whose lack of knowledge and sophistication clearly shaped and defined the structure of their beliefs.
    If we think that some god has dominion over the natural world, doesn’t it stand to reason that that world would reflect the nature of that god? We know so much more than we used to, and the universe is much older, larger and more complex, and quite possibly might not be the only one. Yet this god hasn’t changed at all – well, except for the fact the Old Testament s.o.b. of a god is clearly a different creature from the god that Jesus taught about, which is my third point.

    .

  • Good answer, Steve. I hope someone asks the Republican presidential hopefuls if they think Islam is the enemy in the GWOT. Seems to me that the base thinks it is.

    And BTW, as someone who has actually read the entire Quran, I can attest that it is even more violently despotic than a lot of Christians think it is. As an atheist, I was amused by the threats it promises for me, but it is a very dangerous book to take literally, it’s even more graphically violent than the Old Testament, which of course is replete with stories of genocide.

  • Someone asked me the other day if I could think of something, anything, nice to say about the president.

    Here’s my answer: The one good thing I can think of that Bush has done is to help destroy the Republican brand. Of course he had help, but without him they wouldn’t be in nearly so much trouble. He’s going to be the reason many people go vote next November. Even though he won’t be running, they’ll punish his party because he is the Worst President Ever, and they brought him to us.

  • That’s always been my one compliment of Bush, too. The violence in the US against Muslims immediately after 9/11 could have been much worse if the government had not made an effort to avoid it. This would have been a given in a Democratic administration, but it is likely that because it originated in this Republican administration — which controls media outlets like Fox and conservative talk radio — that less violence occurred against Muslims than would have under a Democratic administration.

    I’ve always assumed that this has something to do with Bush’s ties to the Saudis.

  • Hum, I was asked the same thing, CB, and I ended up pointing out how Giuliani took the side of the immigrants; how it was impossible to declare everyone that overstayed a visa an illegal immigrant, and how it was impossible to tell who was who on the street. It was a point where he sounded educated and lucid.

    And the word comes to mind ‘beautiful’ moments of this, where I can see glimpses of arguments which are at least rational, peace-seeking, American.

    Thank you for reminding that at least once, Bush had the right words to say to the world.

  • Preznit Bush: “… I believe people who murder the innocent to achieve political objectives aren’t religious people.”

    Hmmmmmm… That rules Bush and his administration as un-religious people, considering how many innocent people their Iraqi “adventure” has killed for political (and worse, financial) reasons.

    Though I do appreciate his pointing out that Judaism, Christianity and Islam can all trace their ancestry back to Abraham. And that Islam is a peaceful religion. That doesn’t get him off the hook, however.

  • “President Bush is wrong — dangerously wrong — in proclaiming that all religions worship the same God.”

    Yes, because then how are we to claim that God is on our side?

    “Are all baseball teams equal (clearly not, because only two will go to the World Series)? ”

    If he thinks I’m going to worship the Boston Red Sox, he’s out of his fucking mind.

  • Just take a look at what the Arab press is making out of GWB’s ecumentalism:

    RIYADH, 10 October 2007 — US Ambassador to Saudi Arabia Ford M. Fraker termed the US House of Representatives resolution recognizing Ramadan and expressing the deepest respect to Muslims in the United States as “historic”.

    The resolution was adopted in the House by a vote of 376-0 last week for the first time.

    “We welcome the resolution from the US House of Representatives recognizing the holy month of Ramadan and expressing respect to Muslims,” said Fraker. “This message of friendship is particularly appropriate here, the home of Islam’s two holiest mosques.”

    The American envoy noted that “this resolution confirms that Congress and the American people are fully supportive of these efforts.”

    The resolution, which acknowledges the importance of Muslims in America, is the first of its kind, introduced by Rep. Eddie Bernice Johnson (D-Texas) and co-sponsored by 30 legislators.

    The resolution was strongly backed by Democrat Rep. Keith Ellison of Minnesota, the first Muslim to be elected to US Congress.

    Fraker underscored the US Embassy’s community outreach efforts, including hosting iftar meals during Ramadan.

    “Moreover, we hosted Imam Muhammad Bashar Arafat, who spoke to Saudi audiences about Muslim life in America and shared his peaceful messages of cooperation and dialogue between cultures,” he said.

    “We would like to take this opportunity to wish your readers Ramadan Kareem and Eid Mubarak,” he added.

    A statement posted at the US Embassy website said that US President George W. Bush has expressed happiness on the adoption of this resolution.

    Bush said that the Islamic religion “is a great religion that preaches peace,” and that Americans are free “to worship any way they see fit.”

    The author of the bill, Rep. Johnson, told the House when debating about the bill that “the Muslim American community contributes to the vibrant growth of American society and culture. Muslim Americans play a significant role in America’s political process, economic growth, scientific development, religious tolerance, law enforcement and homeland security.”

    Ellison told legislators that as a Muslim observing Ramadan, “I can tell you it is a time of reflection, a time of renewal and regeneration,” adding, “it’s important to reassess your life, to contemplate your role in society and to benefit your neighbor.”

    He described a joint breakfast held in this spirit by his mosque and Temple Israel in Minneapolis on the Jewish holiday Yom Kippur that drew 160 people. The resolution reiterates support for American Muslims in the face of hate crimes.


    (Source)

    I am not a very big voice, but I’m not cutting GWB any slack. I repudiate him, in fact.

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