Big fundies on campus

Guest Post by Morbo

The religious extremists who run fundamentalist Christian academies in California have a problem: The kids they churn out are having a hard time getting accepted into state-owned colleges because the claptrap they have been taught has left them ill-prepared.

But no worries, a group that represents the fundie academies has a solution: Stop teaching claptrap. Just kidding! They’re going to sue instead.

The Association of Christian Schools International, joined by individual Christian schools and some parents and students, is suing the University of California (UC) system, a network of 10 schools throughout the state.

UC tries to make it easier on kids who want to attend its schools by evaluating curriculum at public and private secondary schools. At some Christian schools, the curriculum came up short. Kids were taught in history class that America was founded to be a “Christian nation.” (Did John McCain go to one of these schools?) In biology class they were, of course, taught creationism over evolution.

Who expected anything else? Some of the textbooks used came from Bob Jones University, that bastion of superior education in South Carolina.

Not surprisingly, the UC evaluators took a look at these textbooks and lesson plans and said, “No way.” They pointed out that kids who learn this stuff will not be prepared to study at UC schools and started leaning on the fundie schools to make some changes.

I feel for some of these kids.

Not every young person who attended Calvary High School of the Most Bloody Jesus wanted to go there. At least some of them were sent there by parents who sought indoctrination over education. It’s not their fault that they got a crummy education.

I know what it’s like to start having doubts about the faith you were raised in. Those first nagging questions are scary — but also kind of exhilarating. The kids experiencing such doubts might benefit from a secular education at the public university. Being exposed to real teachers who actually seek to expand a young person’s horizons and worldview could be very beneficial. Some percentage might even end up dumping fundamentalism.

For those youngsters, I have some advice: All hope is not lost. You might still be able to attend a UC school if you buckle down, study hard, focus on the SATs and come up with a strong essay for your application.

To overcome the concerns of the UC folks, you’re going to need to augment the education you have received in some areas. Start with the public library. There are some interesting books there. To bring yourself up to speed on history, I recommend Howard Zinn’s A People’s History of the United States. For a quick biology lesson, I’d go with Evolution and the Myth of Creationism by Tim Berra.

Whatever you do, don’t let your mom and dad catch you with these books. In the days of old, young people used to keep books about sex under the mattress. It will work for these tomes as well.

I wish I could say I thought the courts would give the fundies a black eye, but I longer have that confidence. The theocrats have so thoroughly compromised our political/judicial system that it wouldn’t surprise me if UC wound up having to change their entrance standards to favor the under/uneducated kids subjected to fundamentalist claptrap.

  • Exactly, Zeitgeist! That was also my immediate reaction.

    Why should students be denied an opportunity to attend college just because their home life and previous educational opportunities were substandard? We have long recognized that low-income students are disadvantaged for those reasons. Doesn’t a fundamentalist Christian home life and and attending fundamentalist Christian schools cause the same kinds of disadvantages? I think that it probably does.

    But not a quota system, mellowjohn. Quotas are unAmerican. Conservatives have been telling us that for decades.

  • Morbo, you neglected a third thing they need to read, I beleive it’s called the Constitution. “America was founded as a Christian nation”, my ass. (Anne’s going to be appalled at my crassness, heck I’m appalled.)

    And Okie and Rich are right. Those poor kids were sorely neglected by their parents and teachers. Whatever they got, it certainly wasn’t an education.

  • Perhaps they could be admitted into a special remedial program for recovering fundamentalists. Hmmm, socialized fundie recovery?

  • Christianists must be falling for W’s “soft bigotry of low expectations.” How dare we hold their spawn to higher standards than they do.

  • This is sad, yet predictable. I hope those kids can attend a “remedial program” as suggested by MudFunk. It’s not their fault their parents subjected to mis-education.

    Unfortunately kids who attend public school can also subjected to their teachers’ beliefs. Or their parents.

    Just a thought.

  • The students aren’t being denied access to college education, and no one wants to do that. However, they have not yet had the equivalent of the decent high school education that is required of applicants to the top-level universities. They have to have taken appropriate courses, and they have to have obtained satisfactory grades. Without the former, whatever grades they got are irrelevant, and the kids therefore fall short of meeting basic requirements for admission.

    They can go to community college, make up their deficiencies, and then apply to enter the higher universities as transfer students.

    People have every right to believe whatever they want, but they do not have the right for whatever they want to believe to be true. Thus the parents’ choices have consequences.

  • Wait a minute..

    how does the Declaration of Independence go?

    “We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are evolved equal, that they are endowed by Random Genetic Mutation with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Survival of the Fittest, Reproduction and Natural Selection ..”

    Like it or not, this country was founded by people with strong Christian convictions, not in fact by antagonistic atheists. No amount of slander and bigotry will erase the evidence of that from our history.

    What is sadder than the failings of primary education? That it is seized upon as an excuse to make Hate Speech against Christian Fundamentalists, instead of addressing the actual deficiencies in the system. Should our highest hope be, as Morbo suggests, that these kids are taught by “a real teacher” that encourages “dropping fundamentalism” ? I am sure that what was at issue here is neither the ability nor certification of the teachers in the schools, but some failing in the curriculum. Well, I am relatively sure. The author seems to have neatly sidestepped whatever actual deficiencies are present in the schools in favor of attacking Christian Fundamentalism in general. How exactly is this not Hate Speech again? Oh yeah, that term doesn’t apply when it’s Christian Fundamentalists being attacked; only any other religious group.

  • As a parent who homeschooled two children, I well understand the responsibility that we shouldered in making that choice. And we fully understood that any shortcomings would have their consequences on our kids’ futures. Understanding that was not enough to scare us away from homeschooling and take the safe route of sticking the kids into the system, because we frankly felt like our lifestyle (lots of foreign residency and moving between various countries) and unique situation (father worked about 5 weeks a year, and otherwise both parents were always home) made homeschooling the obvious choice.

    Yes, it is a shame when parents homeschool and their kids end up hobbled because of it, just as any aspect of dysfunctional family life harms kids. But N. Wells is right, they’re not being denied a college education, and in California the option of community college with later transfer to UC is altogether common and quite easy to do. It’s entirely reasonable for the U.C. system to have certain standards, and I hope they don’t end up being forced to back down.

    As for my own kids, they often won’t tell people they were homeschooled because of the too-common assumption that they were raised in a fundie family. Not so. They are both atheists, in fact, and have been fantastically successful in college. My daughter is currently in grad school physics at Cornell, my son studying in England. Homeschooling CAN be wonderful, and great for the kids and parents alike. Or it can be a fiasco (for Christians or non-Christians). I’ve seen both sides in homeschool families. For us, it worked out great, but it’s not something I’d advise entering into without serious commitment and reflection.

    Well, actually my daughter might label herself, if labels be necessary, as an agnostic. She did tell me she’d like to have a T-shirt that says: “Agnostic … but pretty sure”

  • What is sadder than the failings of primary education? That it is seized upon as an excuse to make Hate Speech against Christian Fundamentalists,

    How on earth can Morbo’s post be described as hate speech? Quit your whining. Just because somebody thinks fundie beliefs are nonsense doesn’t make them a criminal.

  • #10

    ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha

    Oh that felt good. I haven’t seen anything that stupid in a long time. That silly fundie. It doesn’t understand that the Declaration of Independence did creat a country. It told England that we didn’t want to be colonies any more. It was the Constitution that created a country. It gave us a framework of laws to govern ourselves.

    I guess that home schooling/Christian schooling left out a bit. Don’t worry though, there’s something called reading, if you take some time you can learn it then you can find out about real things that happened in the past.

    Oh, by the way Catholic schools do teach children how to read and do teach them the real history of the USA.

    Long live the Constitution!

  • “Fundie” has begun to carry with it some connotations – necessarily ignorant, backward and second-class. It’s become an inflammatory, prejudicial term that is no different in intent than “towel head” or “nigger.”

    To imply that teachers in a religious school are not “real” teachers or that children of parents with a religious belief should hide history books under their beds degrades a group of people based on their religious beliefs. Somehow or another we’ve gotten it into our heads that it’s OK to talk this way about Christians, or at least a certain subset of them, but if one looks at it without prejudice, it’s cut and dried speech intended to debase a religious group, which is the very definition of hate speech.

    when madstork123 gave me the same label – “silly fundie” – what was implied? Was it not that I was somehow mentally deficient? would it have been somehow different if he or she had said “that dumb nigger?” In either case I do not think I have stated either my ethnic identity or my religious belief, and either term could not have been meant as anything but a slur.

    BTW – the Declaration asserted:
    “That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do.”

    The document does not simply say that “we didn’t want to be colonies anymore” but states implicitly that these first Americans no longer considered themselves subject to colonial rule but were in point of fact a separate nation, a United States. This is why we do not celebrate March 4, 1789 ( the day the Constitution went into effect ) as Independence Day. The Constitution created the framework for a federal government, not a country. The United States had already been a Country ( with an inadequate framework for governance ) for over a decade before the Constitutional Convention was called. Maybe public school left that out..?

  • So what happens if unprepared students are allowed into major universities just because they feel their religious beliefs are a proper substitute for actually knowing anything?

    They still won’t be able to handle the course work because they just won’t know how. They’re fundamental beliefs will be challenged in a venue where just spouting a Bible verse or two will have no effect, and their fellow students, who earned their admission on merit not a free pass, will look at them like they’re retarded.

    When they fail their exams will they then sue the school for that, too? And who will want to hire them when they get out if they still have no skills except whining about how badly people treat them?

    Exciting careers at WalMart await them. If they can pass the literacy test.

  • “Fundie” has begun to carry with it some connotations – necessarily ignorant, backward and second-class. It’s become an inflammatory, prejudicial term that is no different in intent than “towel head” or “nigger.”

    Oh, cry me a river, Posthuman. And just what connotations do you and yours attach to the label “atheist?” Amoral? Ignorant? Lost? If you want be play the victim card, come on over to the atheist side, you’ll have a lot more material to work with. But then, atheists usually aren’t so good at self-pity.

  • Posthuman @ 15: your comparison of racial/religious bigotry is complete B.S.

    One problem with racism is that there’s nothing the target group can do to change. You can’t stop being the race you are.

    You can stop being a religious idiot, though. You can read books, learn things, and start making some sense in public fora. You might try using some commenters here as examples. You can also stop going to church (as I did). Avoiding places where they tell stupid lies has a salubrious effect on the intelligence.

    I wish you luck.

  • The major problem with basing an education on religion is that there is no religion on earth – and certainly not Christianity – that can keep up with the exponential increase in human knowledge. The total accumulation of knowledge is now doubling about every 36 months. God hasn’t updated the Bible in the last two thousand years, and modern Christians are running out of ways to twist, distort, stretch, or just plain ignore their Iron-age mysticism to fit scientific and technological fact. The shrill protests of persecution, the militant scheming to get “intelligent design” into schools, the political machinations, even the increasingly dangerous weirdos like the Watchmen on the Walls, all smack of the desperation of cockroaches caught out in the bright light of reason, seeking the comfort and safety of their dark little corners again.

    Maybe a cold dose of reality is just what these poor misguided kids need. God isn’t going to get them a good job. Real education is.

  • Thanks so much for illustrating my point – that instead of discussing real issues, like what exactly was wrong with a schools curriculum, what is or isn’t hate speech or the legal merits of a case against UC, you are unabashadly making assumptions about my spirituality, education, literacy and intelligence, and poking at the integrity of the beliefs of a great number of people. Exactly what I was trying to get across. Thanks.

    For all you know I am an Atheist, or a Buddhist, or I think I am God Himself, but because I am defending Christian Fundamentalists I must be one? What, no one but a “fundie” would be ignorant enough to stand up for such people? Further, I am assumed to have all the negative traits that have become associated with the term. A wonderful example of prejudice.

    Perhaps I should, as he or she suggests, take Fontor’s example for “making sense” —
    Fontor said:
    your arguments.. are complete BS

    This is certainly a convincing rebuttal. I am ready to withdraw my argument posthaste.

    Fontor explained:
    one problem with racism is that there’s nothing the target group can do to change

    That’s brilliant. So I can make inflammatory, derogatory comments against any group so long as it is possible for members of that group to somehow leave that group. Sex change technology has come quite a long way, so, for example, it’s fine to degrade women. They can after all, stop being women.

    Now that I am properly enlightened, could we have a few more posts now that document the use of the word “fundie” as an insult?

  • Posthuman: If you don’t want to be mistaken for a Fundamentalist Christian, then don’t act like one. And don’t advance their arguments. People draw inferences.

    I don’t know why you’re having trouble understanding how making generalisations about members of a racial group is different from making generalisations about a self-selected group of people who commit to certain beliefs, practises, and norms of behavior.

    And no, I’m not defending “inflammatory, derogatory comments”. But as an ex-Christian, I am very aware that superstition has consequences. These kids are, unfortunately, hitting up against them.

  • I’m not sure how the historical and scientific misinformation leaves them unprepared for college.

    All public schools should require is that one understand scientific theories and historical record as widely recognized.

    Hell, the argument presented by PostHuman might prove valuable for debate. Why is it the founding fathers used language that seemed so compatible with fundamentalism. When did Darwin write origin of species? Which founding fathers were religious, which weren’t?

    A fundie might be a valuable asset to discussion. Less so if he wises up too soon.

    If the fundie kids can read, write and do ‘rithmatic, let em in.
    I have full confidence that stronger ideas will prevail.

  • Left out a vital part…
    One should understand scientific and historical conventional knowledge. We needn’t require students to profess belief in them.

    Such dogmatic approaches would have barred Copernicus, Galieleo, and Darwin.
    I don’t fear the fundies. They fear us. I welcome them.

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