Bush offers unpersuasive defense of Mukasey

With Michael Mukasey’s Attorney General nomination looking increasingly tenuous, the president presented a defense this morning to counter lawmaker’s questions. A growing number of senators still want Mukasey to explain whether he believes waterboarding is torture, but Bush believes he need not provide an answer.

Bush said it was unfair to ask Mukasey about interrogation techniques on which he has not been briefed. “He doesn’t know whether we use that technique or not,” the president told a group of reporters invited into the Oval Office.

Further, Bush said, “It doesn’t make any sense to tell an enemy what we’re doing.” […]

“Judge Mukasey is not being treated fairly,” the president said. Without saying whether interrogators use waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning, Bush said that “the American people must know that whatever techniques we use are within the law.”

And we “must know” this, of course, because the president says so. He wouldn’t lie about torture, would he? Please.

But specifically on the Mukasey defense, the president’s pitch doesn’t stand up well to scrutiny. Mukasey “doesn’t know” whether U.S. officials engage in waterboarding or not? He should — the rest of us know about plenty of documented instances. Why doesn’t Mukasey? If we pass along a few news articles about these instances, will he answer the question?

As for “telling the enemy” about U.S.-backed torture techniques, that continues to be the White House’s weakest argument.

First, detainees can’t exactly prepare for a controlled, simulated drowning. Unless al Qaeda has secretly come up with a strategy to help terrorists grow gills, drowning is still drowning.

Second, and more importantly, when U.S. officials use abusive interrogation techniques, they necessarily tell the enemy what we’re doing — by doing it. When we put a detainee on a waterboard, and torture him, he now knows “what we’re doing.” He can then tell others “what we’re doing.” The secret about our techniques are released every time we use the techniques. (Marty Lederman explained this nicely last year.)

As for Mukasey, the “no” votes continue to pile up, particularly among Judiciary Committee members. Dick Durbin and Sheldon Whitehouse announced their opposition yesterday, and Ted Kennedy is expected to do the same today.

And the NYT had a helpful piece detailing why Mukasey can’t (or won’t) answer the simple question.

In adamantly refusing to declare waterboarding illegal, Michael B. Mukasey, the nominee for attorney general, is steering clear of a potential legal quagmire for the Bush administration: criminal prosecution or lawsuits against Central Intelligence Agency officers who used the harsh interrogation practice and those who authorized it, legal experts said Wednesday. […]

The biggest problem for Mr. Mukasey remains his refusal to take a clear legal position on the interrogation technique. Fear of opening the door to criminal or civil liability for torture or abuse, whether in an American court or in courts overseas, appeared to loom large in Mr. Mukasey’s calculations as he parried questions from the committee this week. Some legal experts suggested that liability could go all the way to President Bush if he explicitly authorized waterboarding.

And wouldn’t that be messy. Stay tuned.

  • This reminds me of the argument during the Vietnam War over the secret bombings in Cambodia and Laos. The Nixon administration argued that leaking information about the secret bombings jeopardized national security by revealing what we were doing. This promped a clever Doonsebury cartoon, which showed a couple of Cambodians going “Secret bombings? Why, just yesterday I told my wife “look, honey, here come the bombers again.” “

  • You missed the best quote of all from the NYT article–

    “’People who say we are not at war are either disingenuous or naïve,’ Mr. Bush said.”

    I think that’s perhaps my favorite strawman ever. Does anyone really think we aren’t in a war at all?

  • Excuse me…

    I know that our Constitution is “just a goddamned piece of paper”, but per Article I, Section 8 of that piece of paper, Congress (not the power hungry presidents we have been getting) shall have the power to declare war!

    Even with our Repugnicans and Spineless Dumbocrats, no declaration of war has been passed by the Congress.

    Technically, we may be making war on others, but we are NOT AT WAR! The spineless pukes that make up this and preceding Congresses have followed the Bushite path toward continuing ongoing disregard of our Constitution.

  • Doh,

    Well, to be fair to President Bush (fairer than he’ll ever be to any of us) there are many people who feel WE are not at war, per se, because there is no particular enemy to fight any more. We were led to believe Saddam had or was trying to develop WMD. He and anyone who would defend him are pretty much gone or have switched alliances now. Now, what we’re doing is essentially trying to police a lawless country where a barely-contained civil war is being waged.

  • Bush said that “the American people must know that whatever techniques we use are within the law.”

    So it’s imperative to appoint an AG who will sign off on whatever techniques we use – even if those techniques have been recognized as torture since the Spanish Inquisition.

    As a graduate of SERE, I can attest to the fact that waterboarding is torture. It puts you in fear of your life. Believe me, it is not simply having water poured on your face. If Mukasey is unsure about waterboarding then he only has to submit to it.

    I give him about six seconds, which is five seconds longer than his nomination should stand.

  • Mukasey “doesn’t know” whether U.S. officials engage in waterboarding or not? He should — the rest of us know…

    I think you are missing something.

    The question posed to Mukasey (“Is waterboarding torture?”) can be answered regardless of whether we do it or not.

    Actually, if “whether we waterboard” is (officially) an “open question”, then this should free up Mukasey to respond to the question, since he’s only talking about a hypothetical.

  • Bush said it was unfair to ask Mukasey about interrogation techniques on which he has not been briefed. “He doesn’t know whether we use that technique or not,” the president told a group of reporters invited into the Oval Office.

    This line of argument really irritates me. It basically makes the assumption that whether a given technique is torture or not depends on who’s doing it. I thought that Republicans were against situational ethics?

  • The “just trust us” paradigm marches on. Ever since that ordinary Tuesday morning six years ago, the Federal Government has abdicated any and all accountability and transparency, the Corporate Military Industrial Media has refused to investigate or report anything that might tarnish our Acting War President’s codpiece, the Acting War President has declared a Global War On a Psychological State (or Nefarious Tactic, if you prefer), and the American People have largely been frightened and traumatized by their own government into submission. Oh yeah, and we invaded a sovereign nation based on phony intelligence to pursue unconstitutional war and military adventurism and prospect for black gold.

    I was listening to the radio yesterday and someone on the Randi Rhodes show alluded to waterboarding as “gurgling.” Now I think that I understand what waterboarding is all about. Maybe someone should put together a waterboarding tutorial for Mukasey so as to avoid any future confusion.

  • Doesn’t this all boil down to two questions?

    1. Is waterboarding torture?

    2. Is torture illegal?

    It doesn’t matter who is doing it, why they’re doing it, how they’re doing or whether they’re doing it secretly or in the middle of Times Square – those are the questions.

  • K Ashford, that was exactly my thought while reading Bush’s defense. The legality of waterboarding is – to a non-Rovian – wholly independent of whether we do it. But in the ever-changing Bush-dictionary, anything we do is, by definition, legal. That is not, of course, how it should be: if Mukasey believes waterboarding is illegal and says so, and it turns out we’ve been doing it, so be it – but either answer the question or admit you will not answer because you believe your job is to protect, not prosecute, the Administration (and let people then determine whether to support you on that basis).

  • The United States of America has estabished a pre-existing pattern of prosecuting “waterboarding” as a war crime. Because of this precedent, it will not matter one iota whether Mukasey acknowledges it to be torture or not—it is already proven to be torture.

    Mukasey’s acknowledgement of waterboarding as torture will only accelerate the day of judgement for those who have committed the act; for those who have authorized commission the act; for those who have sought to conceal commission of the act—and a War Crime is not something that can be dismissed by a simple wave of the magic Presidential Pardon wand. Individuals involved can be extradited—and an endless line of rightwing pundits and underlings could not prevent that extradition from taking place.

    Bush is merely buying time with the argument that his AG nominee has not been briefed on the procedure; its details are common knowledge, and the notion that individuals identified as aiding and abetting this most heinous of acts can be held criminally accountable lends credence as to why Republican support for this nominee is beginning to falter. This is the kind of blood that can never be completely washed from the hands, once those hands have been bathed elbow-deep in that blood.

    Should this nomination fail in committee, I can only see two alternatives for the administration, being (1) holding out until December for a recess appointment—which would only buy the Bushylvanian criminals a year’s grace, at best—or (2) an acceleration of plans to vacate the Presidency and flee to that jungle paradise in Paraguay.

    THAT is why this administration; this President; this religion of neoconservativism is so blatantly desperate to stymie the question of whether waterboarding constitutes torture. It does, and it is a war crime.

    Nixon quit over a mere burglary. Bush and his cult are being linked to war crimes—and Republicans who do not wish to leave their entire lives behind for the purpose of psychophantically following their “dear Leader” into the jungle—as did the lemmings of a certain Jim Jones, one upon a time—are about to be forced into a decision.

    “What is more important: George W. Bush, or the United States of America?”

    Beyond this lies an even greater question. The world has seen the images of Saddam Hussein with a noose around his neck. They have seen the images of his hanging from the end of that noose, and of his corpse lying on the floor, the neck obviously broken. How will the world—and in particular, the United States—react to a similar image, should the “guest of honor” atop the gallows’ trapdoor be George W. Bush?

    How will America internalize the knowledge of a president being executed?

    War crimes are still punishable by hanging….

  • That reminds me, Steve. Since we’re in the habit of starting arbitrary, illegal wars with states that are not an imminent threat to the United States, let’s invade Paraguay instead of Iran. There’s got to be some natural resources down there that we can pillage and plunder.

  • and an endless line of rightwing pundits and underlings could not prevent that extradition from taking place.

    It sure isn’t endless.

  • Bush said, “It doesn’t make any sense to tell an enemy what we’re doing.” […]

    Then by this line of argument, we shouldn’t tell criminals that we use impose the death penalty or use lethal injection when doing so.

    Because obviously, it doesn’t work as a deterrant if they know about it. AND if they were to know about it, they could adequately prepare themselves…

    Stupidest. President. Ever.

  • #10 Kathy –
    Doesn’t this all boil down to two questions?
    1. Is waterboarding torture?
    2. Is torture illegal?

    Exactly. Behold George Bush’s favorite rhetorical technique – the Straw man.

    What Bush does is, he props up the third question, the one he’s really afraid of:

    1. Is waterboarding torture?
    2. Is torture illegal?
    3. Does America waterboard?

    And then he goes on to completely bypass the first two questions, and addresses the 3rd question by not answering it on grounds of secrecy!

    The only question is, who will call him out on it?

  • ***sloppy magoo***you say we are policing a civil war yet we have gone from over 200 bombings a year to well over 900 so far this year in Baghdad alone. On civilian neighborhoods. Thats several bombs a day so far. We’re done “policing” we are now doing ethnic cleansing of neighborhoods.
    Soon there won’t be anyone left to kill that oppose us. We would have nuked them already except we need some alive to make the mass murder and ethnic cleansing look like it was needed.
    But this is not war unless you can call massacring families war. This is slaughter.

  • **steve***you patriotic idealistic goober. You must know these republicans are like lemmings and would follow Bush right over that cliff. That Bush is making sure that no one will ever be prosecuted for anything this administration has done because they’ve come to depend on the stupidity and spinelessness of the democrats who loudly announced before the question was even asked that impeachment was off the table. The dems theme is “forget about it” which is all most of them are trying to do. There will be no accountability for anyone in this administration just ask Jay Rocefeller, Diane Feinstein, Bob nelson. Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton, the list goes on and on.
    Cold blooded murder in front of a large audience might…might get Bush indicted if it didn’t “interfere with policy making”

  • JKap, I can imagine a day, somewhere in the not too terribly distant future, where an invasion of Paraguay may well happen—in order to bring the terrorist that is the current administration and its sinister sidekicks to justice before the Hague.

    And bjo’—as “Jay Rockefeller, Diane Feinstein, Bob Nelson. Howard Dean, Hillary Clinton,” et al belong to the group that I identify as “enablers” of these crimes, I feel comfortable in the notion that they, too, will ultimately have to answer for their actions. If they will not stand and fight the horror, then they are, by default, a part of that horror.

    The “I was unaware” excuse will work for them about as well as “nicht Nazi” worked for all the mid-level Hitler groupies—right after the Russian tanks rolled into Berlin in 1945….

  • “must know”, eh?

    Haven’t we heard this before?

    Oh yeah:

    “People have got to know whether or not their President is a crook. Well, I am not a crook.”

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