‘One man’s torture is another man’s CIA-sponsored swim lesson’

It’s been a discouraging week when it comes to the right and torture. The Wall Street Journal’s editorial page argued that waterboarding doesn’t necessarily constitute “cruel, inhuman or degrading” treatment of U.S. detainees. The National Review’s Rich Lowry argued, in Matt Yglesias’ words, that “torture a defining value of the American conservative movement.”

But a discussion on CNN the other day, featuring Republican “strategist” Rachel Marsden, takes the cake.

BLITZER: What do you think about this issue of water boarding, torture and the attorney general nominee Michael Mukasey?

CAFFERTY: I think — I feel sorry for Michael Mukasey. I think he’s trying to tread a minefield laid down for him by that sycophantic little yes weasel Alberto Gonzales. He wrote the memo in secret saying the Geneva Conventions didn’t apply to American military when it came to enemy combatants. Who wrote secret memos saying the president of the United States didn’t have to follow the FISA court laws when it came to spying on Americans.

That kind of subterfuge of the American rule of law is an entirely separate issue from whether or not water boarding is torture or whether or not surveillance under these conditions or those conditions is a good idea. Now Mr. Mukasey can’t say waterboarding is torture because if he does, liability sudden accrues to a whole lot of folks and who knows what the consequences are. Meanwhile, Gonzales is wandering around happy as a clam. He ought to be in jail for what he did. […]

MARSDEN: Well, I think we have to define torture. One man’s torture is another man’s CIA-sponsored swim lesson.

She didn’t appear to be kidding.

And who is Rachel Marsden, and why is CNN putting her on the air to share these absurdities? I’m glad you asked.

Consider this report from the New York Post in May:

Security officers hastily escorted “Red Eye” contributor Rachel Marsden out of Fox News Channel’s Midtown headquarters yesterday for bizarre and erratic behavior. “She’s out of her [bleeping] mind. She was doing crazy stuff,” a spy told us. The brown-haired hottie is notorious in Canada, where authorities say she falsely accused a university swim coach of sexual harassment and harassed a Vancouver radio personality. A Fox News rep had no comment.

As Josh Marshall noted, “Now, consider that one for a second. Just how bizarre and erratic does a Fox pundit have to be? Right? CNN sure knows how to pick’em.”

I’d only add that Marsden’s “swim lesson” remark wasn’t the only gem of the interview. A few minutes prior, in the same CNN appearance, she explained:

“I think George Bush is doing fine. Looking back in the rear-view mirror, I think history will prove him right. Like I said, everything looks better in the rear-view mirror. People hated Reagan when he was in office. People hated Joe McCarthy and they said he was wrong about what he was doing. Turned out based on Verona Project that he was right. So I think history will prove George Bush right as well.”

Hmm. A far-right strategist that was allegedly too erratic for Fox News is welcome on CNN to defend McCarthyism and waterboarding, as if they were mainstream ideas.

The mind reels.

“People hated Saddam Hussein when he was in charge of Iraq. People hated Hitler and they said that he was wrong about what he was doing,” Marsden babbled as the men in white coats pulled her out of CNN’s Atlanta offices and shipped her back to the funny farm.

  • “What is torture” is actually quite simple to answer.

    Any techniques used by Torquemada, Stalin and/or Lenin’s Russia, the Nazis, and/or Pol Pot are torture.

    I guess Mardsen, Bush, and anyone else defending this crap don’t care that they’re carrying on the traditions of those listed above and don’t mind being lumped in with them.

    And it’s strange that they don’t care because the “rear-view mirror” of history is going to show that’s who they best resemble.

  • Rachael Marsden wants to be the next Gen Coulter except without the Adams Apple.

    I’m glad that you pointed out her own background which made small news in Canada at the time.

    Why is CNN putting her on? As much as she is an utter loon, it is the same reason why Ann Coulter and the rest of the female wing nut barkers brigade started. She’s attractive and sex (however dangerous it might be for say bunny rabbits) sells in a shallow way. TV is all about selling (sex or deodorant doesn’t matter.) Face it, TV loves the guys who let the little brain override the big brain because they don’t think enough when it matters to begin with.

    TV: Get a Sub prime loan for a house you can’t afford!
    “Typical” Male Audience: Okay!
    TV: Axe body spray/Viagra/Budweiser/an SUV will turn your ugly fat ass into a stud!
    “Typical” Male Audience: Where can I buy some?
    TV: Private insurance companies care about your health/home/life
    “Typical” Male Audience: Sure!

  • wanna bet that jonathan klein isn’t reconfiguring his onair lineup today just wondering where he can insert marsden as part of his stable of chatterbunnies.

  • If one were in some kind of professional organization that had candidates like the ones we get for President, Senator, and Representative, and the process of vetting them is like what we see during our political races, and the people we rely on to find out about the issues and candidates were like our mainstream media, and the people who are employed to express their opinions about all of this were like what we see on CNN, Fox, ABC, CBS, NBC, PBS, etc. –

    wouldn’t we just think about quitting the organization and maybe finding a new career?

  • Marsden wrote: “People hated Reagan when he was in office. People hated Joe McCarthy and they said he was wrong about what he was doing. Turned out based on Verona Project that he was right.”

    She’s an idiot. Reagan left office with a 64% approval rating. Bush has been floating in the low 30’s to high 20’s for a long, long time.

    And McCarthy? I don’t recall him catching a single genuine communist spy with his idiocy. The fact that there were spies in our government is almost irrelevant, considering his techniques were completely ineffective and possibly counterproductive to actual counterespionage. Not to mention the fact that they stepped all over the constitution and ruined lots of innocent lives.

  • As the first American Dictatorship winds down (hopefully and prayerfully), the Fiat Presidency of the Bush Laden Cabal will leave the blackest mark on American History yet.

    The only questions that remain to be answered are: can America as a nation of laws survive the Bush Disaster & Living Nightmare? Will the perpetrators of so much lawlessness and betrayal that has imperiled, usurped, and subverted our Constitution and Constitutional Republic face justice under the system of jurisprudence that they sought so cavalierly and perniciously to undermine?

  • One thing is clear: America has definitely waterboarded captives.
    No use trying to hide that fact anymore.
    It’s fait accompli.

    The game now is trying to make it retroactively legal.
    I suspect if the Dems don’t play nice with that ruse…
    Then indeed we will see some large scale presidential pardoning going down.

    But here is the interesting nuance:

    I’ve always felt that Bush signed off on torture directly.
    In fact, I suspect he insisted on it.

    If I am correct with that, he is going to have to pardon himself.
    Don’t say he can’t or he won’t.
    He has shown a willingness to do whatsoever he so pleases.
    I don’t see that changing here.
    Given that he has never truly been held accountable in life…
    It looks to me like the prodigal son’s luck is going to hold.

  • “Verona” Project?

    Is she referring to Italy or the Pittsburgh suburb? And what do either have to do with Tailgunner Joe?

    Salon did an article on Marsden a while back…she’s nuttier than even mAnn.

    .

  • I’d like everyone who thinks waterboarding is a “swim,” to request waterboarding.

    Instructions
    Fill up your bath tub.
    Get someone to push your head down for three minutes in the water.
    Answer questions.

  • Perhaps Ms. Marsden would like to be a member of the CIA’s swim team … I hear the training is just grueling.

  • She came up with or heard this line as some joke and was just looking for a venue to say it on…wella, Fox News. It sounded cute and outrageous and she just couldn’t wait to use it.
    Strategist?? Where did that title come from? It really has no meaning in her case. Is that what they call someone who just won a game of monopoly? Imagine being stalked by her…”But you said you loved me”. “I never said I love you”. Well, not in so many words but…”. God, what a nightmare.

  • @11
    Verona was an NSA wiretapping program that intercepted/decrypted Soviet cables to and from the US which were supposed to be one time use codes which were recycled by lazy code clerks at the Soviet embassy. Ran from the late 40s to the late 50s.

  • Torture is leaving a girl in a submerged car with a small air pocket while you go off to sober up, get fitted for a neck brace and find your lawyer.

  • fake related news

    President Bush came to the defense of his embattled nominee for the post of Director of Military Detainees. The nominee, General Hucksby, has come under fire from Democrats for ambiguous answers regarding a form of interrogation known as fingernail-pulling.

    General Hucksby refused to say whether this practice constituted torture, as he had not been briefed on the subject. Several Democratic Senators said that they would have difficulty confirming a nominee who did not recognize torture when he sees it.

    In his news conference, Presifent Bush excoriated the Democrats for ignoring national security in the midst of a war on terror and instead focusing on extending the federal government into health care for poor children. He pointed out the gross unfairness in asking General Hucksby to decide whether fingernail-pulling is torture, saying, “because, you see, the use of this technique is classified”.

    homer http://www.altara.blogspot.com

  • I also saw on CNN, I thought her name was West from the Washington Times, with Jack Cafferty. I was appalled. She said that waterboarding wasn’t torture because “it doesn’t create lasting damage. You can wake up the next morning feeling just fine…” When another pundit said that he would rather believe John McCain, who had been tortured, when he said it was torture. She said, “John McCain wasn’t tortured that way”. She later said, “John McCain isn’t king.” Then Cafferty said, “Neither is George Bush!!!”

  • Torture is leaving a girl in a submerged car with a small air pocket while you go off to sober up, get fitted for a neck brace and find your lawyer.

    Or killing your boyfriend because you were driving drunk and then trying to get that fact swept under the run when your hubby becomes President.

    Or even having tens of thousands of your fellow citizens get involuntarily sent off to war while you have your daddy get you a cushy Guard job which you don’t even bother showing up for.

    But that’s okay — keep defending torture. You members of the party that claims superior moral values and compassion are just showing your hypocrisy for the whole nation to see. And the more you do that, the more you will become irrelevant.

  • ” 12.
    On November 2nd, 2007 at 12:29 pm, Joshua Davis said:

    I’d like everyone who thinks waterboarding is a “swim,” to request waterboarding.

    Instructions
    Fill up your bath tub.
    Get someone to push your head down for three minutes in the water.
    Answer questions.

    Like Joshua Davis, I had an idea of what waterboarding was, and I was wrong on the technique. I thought the guy was strapped to a board, slid headfirst into a large amount of water, and keep bringing him(or her) up for air, and repeating the same process over and over again until the person screamed out whatever his interrogators wanted him to say.

    THIS IS A MUST-SEE VIDEO OF WATERBOARDING.. Watch it, and decide for yourself whether this is torture or not. If you agree with me, you should forward this video to others who think it is just another day of CIA swim lessons.

    http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dc/2007/10/hey_judge_heres_what_waterboar.html

  • I went to Simon Fraser University at the same time that Rachel Marsden did. She stalked swim coach Liam Donnelly and then falsely accused him of rape; the incident played all over the news, and in the end it came out that she was crazy. Not minor crazy, but the kind of (over-used) “bat-shit crazy” reserved for people who are just plain nuts and should spend some time in an institution to properly function in regular society. And I say this completely without hyperbole. Apparently she has gone on to harass and subsequently get restraining orders from several people, not just those mentioned above. And I don’t mean “crazy-but-I-can-see-why-she-might-think-it’s-ok crazy” like Malkin driving past the Frost’s home, I mean “everybody-would-agree crazy” like thinking you’re a chicken.

    Check out Salon’s profile on her here.

    Or, check out the great note at Crooks and Liars from which I got the Salon link.

  • Ah, the beauties of last minute cutting and pasting… sigh. Sorry about the previous post. I managed to make myself sound crazy as well…

  • Robby–Sounded sane to me.

    And instead of “bat-shit insane” try using my favorite:

    “Nuttier than elephant shit.”

    🙂

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