Biden reminds political world why he’s losing

November 12, 2007

Given his background and experience, Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.) probably expected his presidential campaign to be in better shape by now. He’s excellent in the debates, he can speak with authority on matters of foreign policy, and he’s been around long enough to know how to play the game. He’s even delivering some nice anti-Giuliani soundbites.

And yet, for several months, Biden has struggled to get above 3% in the polls, and his campaign is generally considered at the bottom of the second tier.

There are, to be sure, plenty of explanations. Biden has struggled to keep up with the fundraising totals of his rivals, he has a habit of saying dumb things that get him into trouble, and for many Democrats, his work on the 2005 bankruptcy bill was an automatic deal-breaker.

But to fully appreciate why Biden isn’t (and won’t) break through, consider his interview the other day with the New Hampshire Union Leader. (via Steve M.)

…Biden said in an interview at the New Hampshire Union Leader this afternoon that too many Democrats, including the frontrunners for the presidential nomination, do not have faith in the American people. “We’ve got to trust the American people more,” Biden said. […]

When he asks groups of Democrats if they think the American people are stupid because they elected George W. Bush twice, most respond that, yes, they do, he said. He said he thinks that attitude is a real problem for the Democrats, who fail to understand how smart and pragmatic the American people really are.

Biden was generally critical of the far left wing of his party and of the strategies the frontrunners are using to win the nomination…. He said Democrats would do better if they stopped dividing the electorate by playing to their base and instead brought people together. He criticized the left wing of his party for demonizing the rich and Republicans.

“Rich folks are as patriotic as poor folks, but we don’t talk that way,” he said.

Wow, that’s really dumb.

Reading over Biden’s comments, he almost seems to have some disdain for the party, which he sees as too liberal, elitist, cynical, and divisive. In other words, he sounds quite a bit like a Republican.

Now, he was talking to the Union Leader, which is a conservative paper, so maybe he was trying to impress the paper’s editors by repeating their talking points. Perhaps he’s thinking he can angle for an endorsement or something.

But motivations aside, what on earth is Biden talking about? The party “divides the electorate”? Is only concerned with the base? Is too quick to demonize the wealthy?

Is Biden looking at the same Democratic Party as I am?

It’s possible Biden figures his only shot at this point is running to the right, and picking up the Lieberman voters. Of course, as I recall, Lieberman came in fifth in the New Hampshire primary in 2004 (famously claiming to be in a “three-way tie for third place”).

If there’s an effective strategy here, it’s hiding well.

Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.MBNA)

Fixed.

  • I think it’s more than passing strange that the MSM will NOT present each candidate with equal exposure. (I mean aside from candidates’ paid ads.) I don’t say this because of a preference for Biden at all, but because SOMEBODY’s already decided who the frontrunners are long before elections have taken place. It seems to be a deadly game of news stations bent on pushing some candidates into the limelight and totally ignoring others. America ends up learning the most about these predetermined “frontrunners” because the media hypes them, and knowing almost nothing about how the other candidates stand on issues.

    The media utterly fails in its responsibility to educate and inform America about all the candidates. It’s bad enough when the parties themselves decide who’s going to get exposure by just omitting candidates from debates. The whole shebang seems detestable to me.

  • When he asks groups of Democrats if they think the American people are stupid because they elected George W. Bush twice, most respond that, yes, they do, he said. He said he thinks that attitude is a real problem for the Democrats, who fail to understand how smart and pragmatic the American people really are.

    Biden was generally critical of the far left wing of his party and of the strategies the frontrunners are using to win the nomination…. He said Democrats would do better if they stopped dividing the electorate by playing to their base and instead brought people together. He criticized the left wing of his party for demonizing the rich and Republicans.

    Yet I would have to agree with this statement. The fact is a number of people did vote for George W. Bush for President, twice. It does us no good to point our fingers and yell “I told you so!”

    That’s where the impeachment crowd have it all wrong. Not only had many Americans voted for George W. Bush, many many more supported Bush’s invasion of Iraq. Rubbing salt in this wound by impeaching either Bush or Cheney, or childishly withholding funding for the war will only alienate the majority of Americans.

    I am deeply saddened when I see what is written on the majority of blogs these days and I am becoming more convinced every day that the left and progressives are the most childish and thoughtless, as in completely lacking empathy for other peoples feelings and beliefs, group of people I have ever witnessed. What passes for liberal thought and ideals today is not even a poor substitute for what they should be.

  • Awww, Jack S. Sorry your feelings are hurt, but you folks really truly and absolutely fucked up.

    Many Americans were so sure of themselves even if they never read a damned history book about the middle east or spent time there. Yet they believed in someone who didn’t either and it cost them.

    For some of us, impotent anger is all we have left. This “oh we screwed up, but please don’t point out the fact that we were ignorant, stupid, ill informed or downright blood thirsty because it offends us” is just the pathetic whiny sophistry of someone unable to deal with their own guilt and failings. At this point, I’m past the point of politeness with folks who think like you in general. This isn’t an argument about raising or lowering taxes or a matter of policy/theory. This was and is about life and death of thousands if not millions and YES YOU FAILED.

    I for one don’t give a goddamned rat’s shit about your fucking feelings or the feelings of the “majority.” Tell that to the dead or the wounded or those about to die because I don’t care. Politeness be damned. You fucked up, you deal with it.

  • Jack S says: “Not only had many Americans voted for George W. Bush, many many more supported Bush’s invasion of Iraq. Rubbing salt in this wound by impeaching either Bush or Cheney, or childishly withholding funding for the war will only alienate the majority of Americans.”

    This is incorrect.

    Most Americans feel that Bush and Cheney deliberately used deception to gain approval for the Iraq war. And when asked, a majority also believes that if they did lie us into the war (see question #1) they should be impeached.

    http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/3528

    Note that this poll was done in October of 2005, and the evidence for Bush’s deception has only grown since then.

  • anney – Biden never had a chance of equal coverage in large part because he was damaged goods from the outset. He quit the 88 race in scandal. (Or at least what passed for scandal back in those more innocent days.)

  • One more point for Jack S to think about:

    It does us no good to point our fingers and yell “I told you so!”

    Actually, in a way it would help. If the media would simply ask every wingnut who comes on their shows to fess up and admit that they backed the biggest fiasco ever, it would help the viewer to know what a bunch of retards they are. This would be helpful because the same “serious people” want us all to forget how wrong they were, and now they want us to believe that Iran is Hitler and must be attacked. Pointing a finger at them would help, A LOT.

    Jack S and his ilk want us mean old hippies to let them have just as much say so as everyone else, even though they backed (twice) a guy who’s never been fit to be a Dog Catcher, much less a president.

    Sorry Jack. You and your ilk have fucked this country up but good. Time to take your medicine like a man.

    And we’d be less mean to you if you got to work against the next fiasco your president is pushing for.

  • Impeach the two traitors. And damn the imperial war-whores such as Senators Biden, Feinstein and McConnell, who have happily covered up for and supported these lying election-stealing, war-mongering vicious little creeps now currently holed up in the White House. Our lovely corporate media is also complicit in the two GOP Presidential Election thefts and the wars on Afghanis and Iraqis. Actually, the occupation of Iraq is just cover for Cheney to steal billions and billions of U. S. taxpayers dollars and move it into the pockets of corporations such as Halliburton and Blackwater with the corrupt “no-bid” contracts.

  • I am becoming more convinced every day that the left and progressives are the most childish and thoughtless, as in completely lacking empathy for other peoples feelings and beliefs

    Go read Malkin, Powerline and all the other leading conservative bloggers for a week, then come back and we’ll debate this. Right-wing thought is pretty much defined by a complete lack of empathy for others. There’s a big difference between that and progressives holding a grudge because the country got screwed over so badly by Bush and his mindless followers.

  • Oh, absolutely right, Senator! The left wing of the Democratic party are the people who have spent the last few years calling their opponents traitors and terrorist sympathizers. It’s the left who have been dividing the electorate by actively seeking ‘wedge’ issues and refusing to allow compromise bills to the floor in Congress. It’s the left wing of the party that has promoted tax cuts and regulatory policy that have increased the financial inequity in the nation to historic levels, making the rich richer. It’s the Democratic party that is obsessed with playing to its base, with candidates saying anything so that they can appeal to the rabid ideology of a select few. It’s the Democratic party that treats the average voter as stupid, that lies to them over and over, that says one thing and does another, confident that no one will call them on it. Sure. Uh-hunh. Right.

    I think the reason Biden can’t get traction is that he’s obviously convinced of his own brilliance while being obviously so full of sh*t. Any one who, after years of GOP rule, is willing to blame the Democrats for dividing the electorate, really doesn’t deserve to be running for their nomination.

  • zeitgeist

    Biden never had a chance of equal coverage in large part because he was damaged goods from the outset. He quit the 88 race in scandal. (Or at least what passed for scandal back in those more innocent days.)

    You mean his plagiarism in law school and in a speech? This should be a legitimate part of the coverage, just as GW’s DWI arrests should have been.

    I’d just like to see media outlets required to give each candidate equal time and let voters decide on the basis of what they’ve learned about candidates, not on the basis of not knowing diddly about some of them.

  • I agree that rich people are patriotic.
    Just look at all the good things that have been done by Richard Mellon Scaife, Rupert Murdoch, Sumner Redstone, Jack Welch, and the wealthy people that helped put George W. Bush into office.
    I’m sure that they would have done all of the same things even if they didn’t get massive tax cuts from this administration.
    And who would dare criticize patriots like Erik Prince, the late Ken Lay, and Mitchell Wade?

    Excuse me, I think that I just threw up in my mouth.

  • Shalimar,

    I have seen what the Republicans are all about and that is all the more reason not to become what Republicans have been. Holding a grudge, is a bad idea.

  • Jack, Jack, Jack…

    “…Holding a grudge, is a bad idea.”

    Yes, we are pissed off, but it’s not a grudge, it’s self interest & self preservation. Have you ever heard of learning from your mistakes?

  • Hate breeds hate. Righteousness breeds righteousness. Finger pointing begets finger pointing.

    And Bush has done such a good job dividing the country that it’s hard to even imagine most of us working together.

  • Also what BuzzMon said. When an entire political wing of the country has been calling us traitors and worse for 20 years through their massively popular radio hosts like Limbaugh, you’re full of shit if your advice is to play nice and be empathetic with them. If they want to continually act like schoolyard bullies then we are past the point of empathy with the other side in our political process.

  • I agree with anney #2 about the lack of objective coverage that some candidates have experienced. It does seem that the MSM tiered the candidates before presenting them fairly to the public. And in some cases, they’ve treated candidates with disdain, like Dennis Kucinich. His treatment has been like the kid in school that everyone makes fun of because he’s nerdy and wimpish and bookish and a little funny looking. No matter how smart he is, or how sound his ideas, he gets mocked and ridiculed by his classmates.

    I wish Chris Dodd had been given a fair chance. My opinion of him continues to rise, with the little I hear about and from him. He’s the right age, 63, and has plenty of experience for the office. I still think Obama is too green, too young yet.

    As for Jack S. Please – the elevation of this complete incompetent to the presidency of the United States has been a catastrophe that will take decades to undo. Shame on you all who helped put this empty shell of a man into office.

  • BuzzMon

    FWIW, just remember that Conservatives without Conscience cannot bear seeing their authoritarian heroes faced with justice. So a desire for identifying felons and their enablers and bringing them to justice is a “grudge”, not a matter of law or a vandalized Constitution. In their book it’s better to forgive and forget unrepentant lawbreakers and their supporters without consequences, you see.

  • “…Holding a grudge, is a bad idea.”

    But so is demanding forgiveness without any act of contrition. For me, forgiveness works the following:
    1) Person screws up
    2) Affected party gets angry
    3) Person offers some sort of contrition: apology restitution etc.
    4) Affected party forgives

    What you’ve offered
    1) Person Screws up
    2) Affected party gets angry
    3) Person demands affected party not be angry and not demand some sort of contrition.
    4) Affected party remains angry.

    This is what is called “Getting your cake and eating it, too.”

    I personally don’t work that way. If I screw up, I apologize and make concessions because I was WRONG. (Stupidly) I assume others behave the same way. That is why what you wrote made me furious. When YOU made mistakes, YOU have no moral high ground to demand others to forgive and forget and nor should YOU TILL YOU deal with it. By your stupid self righteous defiant attitude, I don’t think you ever will.

    This is why I have no issues or ill will towards the folks at Balloon Juice or Rep Walter Jones. They realized that this war was a bad idea, and are now doing something about it.

  • Anney – thanks for the link. I will catch that after work. I agree 99.9 %, I only have a two word correction to your comment:

    “..In their book it’s better to forgive and forget unrepentant rich Republican lawbreakers and their supporters without consequences, you see.”

    When you add rich Republican, it fixes eveything for them.

  • What point was this?

    That the left has become so overcome with hatred and anger that it is no longer possible to hold a reasonable conversation with anyone unless you agree with their viewpoint. It’s really too bad. The right wingers really blew it and we had an opportunity to begin reversing the 30 year trend toward conservatisim.

  • Do You Commit Web Rage?

    Yep.

    I suppose you think the brave protesters in Pakistan are committing “street rage”? Is it a bad thing that people are actually beginning to care – passionately – about their country, their governance, their rights?

    What is your response to someone like Intelligence Deputy Kerr saying that rather than fighting for your privacy you should just dumb down the definition and expect that the government knowns all about you? Maybe that should make you angry. Maybe we would be a better country if people here were willing to do as those in Pakistan when their government is hijacked; instead we just turn the TV channel away from news and to Entertainment Tonight, or Americas Next Top Model (and, ironically, we dont seem to get the joke that one of our leading entertainment shows is called “Big Brother.”)

    You go ahead and roll over quietly if that’s your thing, but the left has a good reason and every right to be angry about what BushCo has done to this country (and to a lot of other countries as well). Appeasing the bully never works. It only makes the idiots like Glenn Beck and Michele Malkin believe that silence means agreement, they (and the dolts who pay them to waste limited bandwidth) honestly start believing the country thinks like they do.

    It is time for the too-long-silent majority to speak up, and if a little indignation and voice raising is what it takes to be heard so be it.

    Honestly, I have real trouble seeing what the problem with that is, unless – like Dems and the “nuclear option” you think that the best way to preserve one’s freedom of speech is to never act like you have it in the first place. Not much point to that, really.

    So yeah, I rage on the web. And I rage to elected officials. And I rage at political events. And I will rage in the voting booth. And I will keep raging until our so-called leaders give us less to rage about. If you dont want to join in that, I suppose it is your right, but it rather makes you part of the apathetic problem that enables those who trample our rights. You may not have much time left to actually use your freedom of speech – I’d suggest you speak loud before people like Kerr arrange to have everyone silenced.

  • Do You Commit Web Rage? -Brian

    Yeah, I do.

    So fuck off. And take your little concern troll with you.

    I’m perfectly comfortable hating the enablers who allowed George Bush to illegally enter office and war. At least I don’t have the blood of innocents on my hands.

  • So yeah, I rage on the web. And I rage to elected officials. And I rage at political events. And I will rage in the voting booth. And I will keep raging until our so-called leaders give us less to rage about. If you dont [sic] want to join in that, I suppose it is your right, but it rather makes you part of the apathetic problem that enables those who trample our rights. You may not have much time left to actually use your freedom of speech – I’d suggest you speak loud before people like Kerr arrange to have everyone silenced. -Zeitgeist

    Quoted for truth and for your ability to be so much more eloquent than me.

  • Biden suffers from a terminal case of conceit and verborrhea (diarrhea of the mouth). He’s so in love with his own wit and voice, he just can’t stop talking. I watched him question Roberts for the SCOTUS nomination and his “question” was so long and so convoluted (but delivered with *such* charm and urbanity and self assurance — you couldn’t be faulted for thinking he was preening before the cameras…), that there was no time left for Roberts to answer it, even if he managed to figure out what the question *was. I couldn’t. So, Roberts was spared the bother of having to lie.

    It’s no wonder that ever so often Biden will tie himself in knots and say something utterly stupid…

  • Could Joe Biden possibly be the reason why Joe Biden is losing?? Not that intelligence is his strong point. He has gone out of his way to criticize a very successful (yes, put the kool-aid down and think about it) twice elected US president but he doesnt even appeal more than 3% of the people in his own party. If he kept his mouth shut for the next 7 weeks his chances in Iowa would actually improve. Hopefully he won’t plagarize his “dropping out of the race ” speech but it’s only a matter of time before he gives it. And then the whole country will know once again that compared to President Bush, Joe Biden is a LOSER.

  • That the left has become so overcome with hatred and anger that it is no longer possible to hold a reasonable conversation with anyone unless you agree with their viewpoint.

    I think you’ll find that starting a conversation by telling people they’re overcome with hatred and anger gets a pretty universal reaction no matter who you’re talking with.

  • Cool–we found the one guy who thinks Bush is the Bestest Preznit Ever. Schmuck. What exactly has he done that you deem “successful”? He’s disgraced himself, defeated his party, wrecked our budget, squandered a fortune in blood and treasure, and done serious damage to our best principles and traditions.

    Truly, a heckuva job.

    Turning to less obnoxious visitors, I can acknowledge that there’s a germ of truth in what Jack S wrote originally–but the problem is that he’s three steps ahead of the moment. As many posters subsequently pointed out (not always nicely, but so be it–that’s life on the internet), we’re not ready to “get over it” until the damage Bush/Cheney/DeLay/Rove/Norquist/Dobson did to our beloved country is repaired–and, yes, until they’re sufficiently discredited that we don’t need to fear their repellent ilk again and can resume constructive engagement with conservatives and Republicans who operate in reality and are interested in bettering the lives of all Americans, not solely the debasement and destruction of their political enemies.

    George W. Bush is what happens when an electorate doesn’t cherish its democracy, isn’t mindful of its responsibilities, to the extent that our history and our ideals demand. This isn’t a partisan thing; for all his faults, if McCain had won in 2000, I have no doubt that we’d be in much less of a mess today. But we “elected”–in that it was close enough for the bastards to steal–a name and an empty suit, a weak and insecure man so obsessed with seeming strong that he enabled a bunch of fanatics who then wrecked everything they touched.

    That’s not easily forgiven, and while we’re still feeling the direct effects, I think it’s a stretch even to ask for as much.

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