Republicans happy to accept ill-gotten gains

I’ve heard John Edwards, on several occasions, emphasize that he’s not interested in winning the votes of racists and/or misogynists. As the former senator put it in one recent debate, “If you don’t vote for Hillary because she’s a woman, or you don’t vote for Obama because he’s black, I don’t want your vote.”

Among Republicans, there’s a slightly different standard.

At a recent Huckabee event in Iowa, Glenda Gherkey, an evangelical from Evansdale, posed a question to the candidate.

“I’m concerned a lot of Christians are thinking about the values issues and forgetting about the creator behind the values issues,” Ms. Gherkey said. “I guess I feel like this country and this world needs a president who would be able to pray to the God of the Bible and he would be able to hear his prayers.”

She wondered, Would Mr. Romney’s prayers “even get through”?

In response, Mr. Huckabee said he did not want to “speak for any other candidate or denigrate them at all.” But he added: “My views are what they are. I don’t think I’ve ever hidden where they come from.”

He then tried to make a joke: “I’m glad you’ve made your choice for me. I don’t care why. I’m just glad you did.”

It’s an interesting contrast, isn’t it? Edwards has said he doesn’t want racists or sexists to look to him as a suitable alternative. Huckabee is confronted with someone who obviously prejudiced against Mormons, and he’s happy to pick up support wherever he can.

As it turns out, this trend has gone a long way in bolstering Huckabee’s campaign of late.

The religious divide over Mitt Romney’s Mormon faith that his supporters had long feared would occur is emerging in Iowa as he is being challenged in state polls by Mike Huckabee, a former Baptist pastor who has played up his faith in his bid for the Republican presidential nomination.

Mr. Huckabee’s rise in Iowa — some recent polls now put him in a dead heat with Mr. Romney, who had led surveys for months — has been fueled by evangelical Christians, who believe Mormonism runs counter to Christian orthodoxy. […]

Barbara Heki, 51, from Johnston, Iowa, who began volunteering for Mr. Huckabee over the summer…admitted that her evangelical faith also figured prominently in her choice.

“Mormons spend two years of their lives as missionaries, preaching an anti-Christian doctrine,” she said. “I don’t want someone out there, if I can help it, who’s going to be acting on an anti-Christian faith as the basis of their decision-making.”

A couple of thoughts. First, if Huckabee were really classy, he’d say something similar to Edwards: “If you don’t vote for one of my rivals because of religious bigotry, I don’t want your vote.” That’s definitely not going to happen.

Second, Romney doesn’t exactly have the moral authority to denounce bigotry — he’s been engaging in plenty of his own lately.

And third, as Andrew Sullivan concluded, “When you see the abuse of religion in politics come back to haunt its architects, it’s hard not to feel the deepest pleasure. Religious intolerance couldn’t happen to a nicer bunch of cynics, could it?”

Told ya so!

The wingnut base has been taught almost from birth that Mormonism is a cult. There’s no way they’re going to be able to deprogram very many of them in the time remaining. No way. And the religious right morons are the bedrock of the Republican party. That’s why I hope Romney makes it through the primaries.

  • And yet, the news that Giuli is losing ground made me realize that I fear Romney more than Giuli. I’m not sure why. Probably those wide shoulders.

    I’m also thinking that we need a tough Democrat like Hillary before we can afford a nice Democrat like Obama. Things are just too cut throat right now.

  • This woman is saying she opposes Romney because she has been told he spent two years on an “anti-Christian” mission.
    The way she seems to understand things, I wouldn’t blame her.
    Would I support a former missionary who went on an anti-Jew or anti-Muslim mission?

    It’s not the faith as a label or what your family told you that you were growing up… it’s what the person does in their life, sometimes as a result of that designated sect that should bear on our voting decisions.
    Chances are, this woman would not object to much of anything Romney may have done on his two year mission, assuming he even went on one. For accepting hearsay wholesale, we can blame her.

    If someone calls themselves Republican, are we not allowed to engage in prejudice that the person is unlikely to curry our favor? Many here do just that but it would behoove us to make certain each and every Republican on our ballot is worse than the Democrat before we push anyone’s lever and let Diebold’s paperless voting machines do what it will with our decisions.

  • As an atheist, I think both Romney’s and Huckabee’s beliefs are equally nuts. But even so, I don’t think it’s exactly fair to compare religious discrimination against Mormons by conservative evangelicals (or for that matter, discrimination against Baptists by Mormons) to the racist or sexist discrimination that Edwards opposes.* Religious beliefs aren’t like race or gender; they’re not something immutable that you’re born with and can’t change. More to the point, from the perspective of the religious believer, faith traditions are not something superficial like skin color that doesn’t make a real difference. Rather, they reflect a view of empirical reality that is either true or not true. If I genuinely and sincerely believed that the God of evangelical Christianity was the one and only real deity and that the beliefs of other religions are objectively false, and that therefore the creator of the universe would respond more favorably to a president who follows the correct tradition than to one who follows a false path, then it would be crazy for me not to take that into account when deciding whom to support, because it would follow inescapably that the nation would be better off with a president who has access to the true God than one who does not.

    A lot of secular liberals lose sight of the fact that religions claim to make objectively true statements about the nature of the empirical universe, but that fact is, I think, essential to understanding the perspective of the 85-90% or so of Americans who profess to hold such beliefs. A religious believer, from within his or her perspective, would be as justified in discriminating against Romney for holding the wrong beliefs on God as I am (and I am, and do) in discriminating against Huckabee for holding the wrong beliefs on evolution. In both cases, the discrimination is based on the candidate’s failure to recognize what the voter believes to be an objectively true statement of empirical fact, not a value judgment or personal preference, as secularists unfortunately tend to treat religious views all too often.

    * And for that matter, it bears noting that Edwards wasn’t really taking much of a risk with his statement. The odds that someone who would not vote for Hillary or Obama for bigoted reasons would be inclined to vote for Edwards in the first place seem pretty slim.

  • “I guess I feel like this country and this world needs a president who would be able to pray to the God of the Bible and he would be able to hear his prayers.”

    The soul-wrenching sadness of this statement goes beyond despair. Apparently this person truly believes, or thinks she does, that there is a discrete sentient being somewhere in Earth orbit that can be communicated with directly by some special person who has powers and abilities beyond those of ordinary humans. And that this being would then consistently respond and react to such communication in a way that totally satisfies the wishes of the human communicant, regardless of what anyone else on the planet wanted.

    Sort of like an organ grinder’s monkey, without the funny costume.

    This is the sort of self-imposed barbarism that will be the bane of civilization if goes too far. With the on-going war against science, rational thought and the very Enlightenment itself, it’s going to get even stinkier before it gets better, if it ever does.

    And at this point, I’m starting to have my doubts.

  • Mr. Dillion …it doesn’t matter how you arrive at your discrimination it is still discrimination and has no place in national politics whereas Hukabee continuously tries to use it to gain votes. Don’t discriminate on race and sex but do discriminate on religious belefs. Saying they just can’t help it because that is their belief and they are going to do it anyway doesn’t transfer into catering for votes based on that discrimination. Vote for me because I am a Christian is just shameful pandering and I would vote against someone not for their religious beliefs unless those beliefs are completely discriminatory, but I would vote against them for using discrimination to garner votes.
    And to the lady…if a group believes in Christ and Jesus how does that make them anti-Christian? Hukabee proves he’s a phony and has no class or integrity for not stating the obvious…God hears all prayers, but no…he milked it for votes. These bigots are sadly deranged and would kill us all to prove a point…and then be wrong.

  • Listening to NPR’s afternoon news, I listened to their coverage of the shifting sands of fortune among the Republican candidates in Iowa. After quick lip service to the other candidates, the story turned into a tent revival meeting for Huckabee by people who sounded a lot like the woman mentioned in CB’s post.

    The religious right, “values voter,” whatever you want to call these people are part of a movement that was soooooo 2004. The fundies are still given prominent billing in this election because news organizations like NPR permit it. Why? This coming election looks to be far more a referendum on the war, health care and the deteriorating situation concerning our economy than anything having to do with religious animosities regarding our culture, as was the case four years ago. Why not interview folks in primary states fearful of getting sick, losing their homes, their jobs or the seeing more lives lost in a failed war? Don’t give a megaphone to people who want to elect a candidate with God’s cell phone number on speed dial — it’s just not newsworthy anymore.

  • bjbotts,

    You seem to lack much of an understanding of the concept of discrimination. Discrimination per se is hardly a bad thing; we exercise it any time we make any kind of decision that favors one alternative over another, and it would be impossible to participate in a democratic system without doing so. Voters necessarily discriminate on the basis of all sorts of dimensions in making their decisions– political persuasion, experience, personality, rhetorical skill, etc. So saying that “discrimination is still discrimination” really gets us nowhere– of course it is, but that’s not a criticism. However, we’ve come to realize that certain *types* of discrimination– generally speaking, discrimination based on superficial criteria that are an immutable part of a person’s identity– are inappropriate bases for discrimination for a variety of reasons. Race is like that. Gender is like that. Sexual orientation is like that. Religion, for the reasons I noted above, emphatically is *not* like that. Religion is more like political persuasion– a criterion on which it would be absurd to argue it is inappropriate to discriminate in making a voting decision– than it is like race or gender. So the idea that an evangelical believer acts inappropriately in voting for someone who shares her faith (or in voting against someone who does not) makes no more sense than the idea that my voting against the Republican nominee, whoever that may ultimately be, because I don’t like conservatives is inappropriate. I plan to do just that, and my doing so will be an act of discrimination against the conservative political persuasion– not only is there nothing wrong with that kind of discrimination, but our democratic system depends on it.

    Of course, one *might* make an argument that the No Religious Test Clause of the Constitution prohibits religious discrimination in voting, but that clause is completely unenforceable as against individual voting decisions, and in any case that interpretation would be in tension with the Free Exercise Clause.

  • Andrew Sullivan is sooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo right on this one. It couldn’t happen to a more deserving bunch of fuckwits.

  • Discrimination is a challenge for everyone. If you believe homosexuals should not be married that is a form of discrimination. If your religious beliefs are ethnocentric like believing you have the truth and others don’t that is discrimination (including mormons/catholics). If you believe only christian prayers will be answered but not the mother of a dying child who happens to be a Muslim that’s discrimination (and very naive in my opinion). My wife had heart surgery and flat-lined in the hospital. She lived barely. If you don’t believe God heard my prayer then you are crazy. The key here is vote for who you think can lead the country the best.

    The problem is Huckabee has directly insulted another faith. He is capitalizing on that. He knows what he’s doing and so does everyone else. Just like Clinton and the drug the with Obama. I just can’t tolerate that kind of behavior.

    Now to be fair I am mormon. But I have several friends who are not mormon. I have many friends who are Baptist and other walks of faith, including family members. I also have people I don’t like who are mormon. Do you like everyone you attend church with?

    This is a country founded on the belief that all of us have the right to religion. Now put yourselves in my shoes. My heritage is mormon. I love my beliefs. I know I am a believer of Christ and his atonement. I am a christian and I don’t care if you think I am or not. I served a mission in Asia. I have several people that became friends of mine who are buddists. I taught children English in small villages. I helped cancer patients at a hospital. I loved the experience. Now if your faith was publicly targeted by a politician would you tolerate it?

    Did you know the producer of the movie “Schindlers List” is Mormon? So are many other people in the world. It would probably amaze you how many mormons are around doing big things to help this country. Mormons have one of the largest humanity efforts in the world. We had food to Katrina and supplies way before most other organizations. The mormon church doesn’t talk much about this in the public domain. They do it why? Because it’s the right thing to do.

    If Huckabee is elected president he is considered a public leader. His responsibility is not only to Christians but to all people in the U.S. He has intentionally discriminated against mormons. This causes me to believe he will discriminate against others, such as Catholics and Jewish believers as well. Believe me this will hurt him in his elections. I won’t vote for him and most of Utah and mormons won’t. Though I live in California. He’s putting down my faith to gain votes from other christians who have issues with mormons. I don’t think it’s wrong to have different opinions and differences in beliefs. And yes if you don’t feel uncomfortable electing a mormon then that is your decision. Though I must admit I think your naive, mormons have voted for several republican christians to become president. So obviously we share the core values as most “faith voters.”

    But Huckabee is intentionally using another religion for his on gain to be elected president. That is very “un-christian” in my opinion.

    If Huckabee is the chosen republican then you will see Utah and many mormons nation wide vote for either an independent or if he wins the democratic seat “Obama.” And for the first time in many years Utah will come out as a Democrat vote instead of Republican. If you don’t believe me just wait and see. Glenn Beck has stated that if Huckabee is elected the presidency will go to the Democrats. I’m confident that’s exactly what will happen in that scenario. I believe that the key to being a president is respect for others personal beliefs as a President. If our president is not uniting us together then we are in big trouble as a nation.

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