The ‘real’ filibuster vs. the ‘pseudo’ filibuster

The other day, I suggested that it’s time for the Democratic leadership to give up on the status quo regarding filibusters and start forcing Republicans who want to block legislation to literally filibuster. I based this in part on several conversations with Hill staffers, who told me this is an option for Reid & Co.

And since then, I’ve heard from many more who’ve said the opposite. Senate procedural rules are exceedingly arcane, but this might be one of the trickiest unresolved questions: can the majority force the filibustering minority to do things the old-fashioned, talk-’til-you-drop way?

To help try to resolve the matter, Time’s Karen Tumulty, to her enormous credit, tackled the question this week.

I called two of my favorite Smart Guys. Tom Mann of the Brookings Institution calls this idea impractical. Given the fact that Republicans could muster 41 people on most things to hold the floor, a real filibuster could go on interminably: “The bottom line is, the modern Senate can’t run without unanimous consent agreements. …It isn’t as if a different strategy would have produced a different outcome.” With so much must-pass legislation before him, Mann says, Reid’s only real option is to “take your lumps and get it done.”

But Norm Ornstein at the American Enterprise Institute thinks Reid should call the Republicans’ bluff, starting with holding the Senate in session five long days a week. “You have a different Senate now. Frankly, they’re soft,” says Ornstein. “If they had the backbone and the discipline to do it, it would work.”

That’s … really not helpful. Thomas Mann and Norm Ornstein have forgotten more about Congress than most of us know, and on this point, they don’t agree. And if they’re confused, I feel a little better about my own puzzlement.

Kevin Drum weighed in with an interesting take.

As near as I can tell, Reid does have the authority to demand a real honest-to-Capra filibuster. But then what? It all depends on who you listen to. Expert A says it would work. Expert B says no, the Republicans would just take turns speaking in between naps and the real pressure would be on Democrats, who have to keep meeting bleary-eyed quorum calls. Expert C says the problem is that it would bring all other Senate business to a halt, while Expert D says no, other business could proceed. And Expert E says it might work, but if Reid declares war on the Republicans they can start withholding unanimous consent on everything in sight, turning the whole place into a gigantic Sargasso Sea of legislative molasses.

And even if it did work, George Bush would just veto the resulting bills anyway and no one would care. Hell, Bush has now vetoed the SCHIP bill twice, and unless you’re a major political junkie you didn’t even know about the second go-around.

On that last point, I agree in part and disagree in part. Kevin’s certainly right about the inevitable vetoes — the president would have no qualms about rejecting everything in sight, reflexively and without hesitation.

But I’m not sure about the “no one would care” part. The typical voter doesn’t know what a filibuster or a cloture vote is, and only casually understands events in Washington. As far as he or she is concerned, there’s a Democratic House and a Democratic Senate, and they’re not delivering on their agenda. I know it’s because of Republican obstructionism, and you know it’s because of Republican obstructionism, but the typical person wonders why Dems are “failing” to pass legislation like they promised. “We gave them the majority in both chambers; what’s the hold up?”

Vetoes are a whole different ballgame. We’d get on-the-record votes from Republican senators (which could be used in the campaign) and we’d have an easy-to-understand explanation for inaction in Washington.

Ultimately, I still think if Reid & Co. can force real filibusters, they should.

I think making the republicans stand on the floor and watch them pour their heart into making sure that poor kids don’t get health care, or to make sure big oil gets their tax cuts will make it look real bad for the people they have to answer to back home watching their congressman take part. The Dems maybe can’t shame the republicans themeselves. but maybe they could shame the people who vote for them.

  • Depending on which bill Reid chooses today, I’m ready to brand Harry Reid as the antichrist and question the validity of his Mormonism. If there are “must-pass” bills then they are must pass for Republicans as much as for Democrats.

    The Dems don’t even talk tough. Dramatic action is required.

  • I am not an expert, but I don’t think an old-fashioned filibuster is possible. In the 1970’s they lowered the voted need for cloture from two-thirds to 60. Part of the compromise in lowering the bar for cloture was that all the minority had to do was show that they had the 40 votes to continue debate.

    What I really object to is the way the media reports these votes. They always headline “X bill fails to pass Senate!” and then report in the first line that the bill in question was not passed by the Senate. Only later in the story do they mention the actual vote or that it was a cloture vote. They always bury way down in the story the fact that the vote was often a clear majority for the bill. That should be the way the news story is presented, that the bill itself was never actually voted on. That a majority favored the bill and favored voting on the bill, but the minority blocked a vote. The Dems should be in front of every microphone presenting the story in that way after each of these votes, until the media starts reporting the real story.

  • I’ve been saying it for months. Reid needs to force the actual Capraesque style filibuster. Make the Republicans OWN their votes. Make them make speeches from the well about why it’s bad for the nation if poor and lower middle class kids get health care. Make them explain to their constituents why soldiers do not deserve as much time at home as they are deployed in a war zone. Make them defend billion dollar tax cuts for the poor widdle energy companies over funding for new sources of renewable energies. Every day make a radio ad and tv spot to air in the local market of each Senator up for re-election nest year. Bring their crazy manipulations of facts and deference to President Prissy Boots home! McConnell is already running ads a year out from his re-election hoping to staunch the bleed. Make them all do it. The Dems are rich now, the Reps are cash-poor. Cost them out of many races by making them defend the indefensible. And get the Dems on a unifying message arc. EVERY damned day.

    We know Dubs will veto everything. Make him. We don’t care if nothing gets passed, we care that the battle is engaged. And we’ll have their backs.

  • >I feel a little better about my own puzzlement.

    Don’t.

    Make them fillibuster.

    Every hour they have to spend on the floor is one hour less of them meeting with lobbyists, one hour less of them on the campaign trail in 2008, and one hour more of youtube-able potential “macaca” moments.

  • If there are “must-pass” bills then they are must pass for Republicans as much as for Democrats.

    Great point Dale. Somehow I doubt that Republicans are willing to concede anything they dislike as being “must pass” the way that Democrats do.

  • The only reason Democrats “must pass” anything these days is because they seem to lack the political will to oppose anything.

  • I don’t buy any of this “voter doesn’t understand” bit. Easy as pie in one sentence Repubs blocking every democratic bill with filibuster so it won’t get voted on.

    All these experts make it sound like dems must do what repubs want or they will shut down the senate and nothing will get done. Well nothing is getting done anyway. Republicans are blackmailing dems to get what they want? Then shut the senate down because it’s corrupted by politics. I wouldn’t give repubs anything and let them close the senate down. Voters get the message. Until we get rid of more republicans and give the dems a veto proof majority(which won’t be needed because we’ll have a dem president anyway), a bigger majority anyway then the senate will be operable again. The polls show that the middle is composed of a majority of progressive leberals, that the country is a majority of progressive liberals, then the average voter definitely ‘understands’ repubs are the source of the problem. Dems need to not compromise their integrity by caving in to republican blackmail. Shut the senate down for a yr till election day is understandable to the average voter. They thought the same thing before ’06 el;ections and were overwhelmingly proved wrong. The average voter is polled to vote with the progressives so they know we will get rid of as many republicans as there are seats that are up for reelection. Dems need to stop giving in. Let the repubs shut the congress down. They will pay for it for sure.

  • Seems they’re trying to change the meaning of filibuster, maybe they just like to say filibuster , like Kalamazoo , Walla Walla or Good Cheer

  • I might be way off, but I’ve always felt the word “filibuster” seemed to carry a kind of abstract negativity for those who don’t understand what it technically means. It seems to serve as a kind of code word used by the right to appeal to their base by reminding them that some kind of government waste of time (and tax money) is going on. E.g.: the Democrats are filibustering again (there they go again with their nonsense). When the situation is reversed, well there go the Democrats again; now they’re wasting time not getting anything done.

    Maybe my tinfoil hat is on too tight but it just seems to me that the right really do control the dialog and that the use/disuse of the word ‘filibuster’ is just a part of the game.

  • Note to Rahm and Dean. Next cycle don’t recruit any Blue Dog Democrats to run. Time to move past them to real Dems.

  • This is going to continue into 2009 unless the Democrats have 60 votes in the Senate after the 2008 election. Currently the Democrats have 49 seats and 51 if you count the two Dem-leaning independents, Bernie Sanders and Joe Lieberman. That means they need to take 9 more seats in 2008. Can they realistically do that?

    35 seats are contested, 23 of those are held by the Republicans, 12 by the Democrats.

    The professional prognosticators think the Dems can gain maybe 1-4 seats, that a far cry from the 9 they need. ( http://cookpolitical.com/races/report_pdfs/2008_sen_ratings_nov29final.pdf ) So the filibustering will continue.

    What other option, then do the Democrats have?

  • Will said, Somehow I doubt that Republicans are willing to concede anything they dislike as being “must pass” the way that Democrats do.

    I think you’re right. Dem virtues are our strength and our weakness.

  • Even if he can force a filibuster, that doesn’t mean it ill do anything.

    In order to win, there needs to be more supporters of the bill on the floor than detractors.

    …And that’s not going to happen. The Democrats don’t outnumber the Republicans, which seems lost on many people.

  • Isn’t it interesting that the Dems are as feckless in the majority as they were in the minority. And the Rethugs still call the tune in the majority, with a hated president and less campaign money in the coffers. Still unafraid to shut it all down and stick it to widows and orphans. Shouldn’t there be a call for the Dems to finally get some balls? It’s not like they don’t have a good role model.

  • From Will: “The only reason Democrats “must pass” anything these days is because they seem to lack the political will to oppose anything.”

    ANY bill that passes will be full of earmarks from both sides. Democrates are so desperate to pay off the bribes contributions they’ve received and keep the money rolling in that they’ll swallow anything to keep their corporate contributers happy.

    They only way out of this mess is to make public financing of political campaigns a high priority. Ask the candidates about it early and often.

    In know __ everyone will say the publc’s not ready for that yet. But those naysayers are the same people who dismissively said the public wasn’t ready when Reagan called for an end to capital gains taxes and the inheritance tax.

  • I remember one of the SC nominations (I don’t remember if it was Roberts or Alito) but I was sick at home and watched CSPAN all day. The Dems threatened to block the vote and the Repugs were all over it… “Up or Down vote”, “we need an up or down vote”. “up or down vote” … you couldn’t go 30 seconds without hearing those words: “up or down vote”, they had signs that said “up or down vote”… every Repug that got to speak repeated it over and over and over: “up or down vote”. Then when a Dem spoke, at the end of his talk you would hear 3 or 4 prople yeall it out: “Up or down vote”. They were not about to let the minority block what they were trying to do – they were not having it. They made it VERY clear to anyone who was watching that Dems were being obstructionists, and finally Dems caved.

    Why don’t Dems stand up and fight like that? Why do we let the MINORITY rule?

  • Third try at this…
    DEMOCRATS could filibuster their own bills quoting Republican opposition and then explainign how weak the arguments are.

    Days upon days of identifying the people who are blocking legislation and why. They’d call for cloture just to shut us up.

  • Comments are closed.