The right condemns U.S. military for ‘San Francisco-style social experimentation’

December 17, 2007

Following up on an item from yesterday, “60 Minutes” aired a very compelling report late night, highlighting an awkward reality for our war-time military: “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” mandates that gay servicemen and women who are open about their sexual orientation have to be discharged and thrown out of the armed forces. But recruiting difficulties, retention difficulties, and national-security interests make it difficult for the military leaders to reject able-bodied, patriotic, American volunteers, based not on ability or performance, but on whether or not they’re gay.

CBS’s Lesley Stahl reported that the pressures have led to a new reality — a fighting force that’s starting to care less and less about DADT and discharging capable American troops. Some commanding officers are confronted with gay troops, and decide that it just doesn’t matter — the U.S. military and American interests are better served having these soldiers serving their country than not.

As a result, gay soldiers discharged under the DADT policy have dropped from 1,200 a year in 2001 to less than half of that now. It’s still an arbitrary and capricious process — some troops are thrown out for being gay, others aren’t — but the CBS report was helpful anyway. It helped prove that the U.S. military, still the greatest fighting force in the world, remains strong, even with openly gay troops.

Except, some of the unhinged members of the conservative movement didn’t quite see it that way. ThinkProgress pointed to this jaw-dropping report from CNS News, a right-wing, online outfit.

Matt Barber, policy director for cultural issues with the conservative group Concerned Women for America (CWA), agreed with Davis. “The military is no place for such radical San Francisco-style social experimentation, especially during a time of war,” he told Cybercast News Service. […]

“If the bleeding-heart lefties over at CBS News and the [Servicemembers Legal Defense Network] really want to do something to support our troops and help the military, they should abandon their attempts to radically alter and undermine the armed forces, pipe down, put a cork in it and let our brave fighting men and women win this war on terror,” he added.

So, U.S. military leaders are wrong for keeping their units intact during a war, the Servicemembers Legal Defense Network is wrong for wanting to allow all Americans to serve, and CBS News is wrong for telling the public about the military reality.

Wow.

Concerned Women for America’s Barber, a military veteran himself, added:

“It’s been the Department of Defense’s long-standing position that to allow open homosexual behavior and other immoral conduct harms unit cohesion and troop morale,” Barber said.

“I know this to be true from personal experience,” he stated. “I served 12 years in the military. During basic training, one of my fellow recruits was sent home for soliciting sex from other male recruits. The incident was an enormous distraction from our task at hand, which was to learn how to be good soldiers.

“Instead, recruits were violated, complaints were filed, and our command was forced to conduct a thorough investigation,” Barber noted. “It was an incredible waste of time and resources, and it definitely harmed troop morale and unit cohesion.”

I don’t doubt that it did, but that’s hardly a good argument. The incident he described involved a bad apple who clearly wasn’t cut out for military service.

But it’s the typical discriminatory tack — Barber had an unfortunate run-in with a guy who was gay, and so therefore, the U.S. military needs a blanket policy against able-bodied gay volunteers serving their country during a war.

But what if one soldier hits on another soldier? First, by that logic, Barber and Concerned Women for America would also have to support banning straight women from military service. Second, given the “60 Minutes” report last night, that doesn’t seem to be a problem in reality.

U.S. troops — who deserve our support, whether CWA likes it or not — who do their duty shouldn’t be sent home.

Barber and Concerned Women for America would also have to support banning straight women from military service

Last I knew, that was in fact CWA’s position. If it has changed, it is fairly recent, because back when they were opposing the modified Equal Rights Amendment, one of the arguments was that it would allow, or even require, women to serve in combat theaters which they vehemently opposed.

  • I guess the wingnuts will finally “realize” why Bush didn’t win the war on terra: Because all those gay people Clinton let into the military under DADT rose up in the ranks and then did their level best to make the whole military “turn gay”. We was stabbed in the back I tell ya!

    You wait, those assclowns are going to believe that, and they’ll be off in the wilderness for a long time before they realize what a bunch of morons they are (if ever).

    Bwahahaha.

  • why is it that every time i see someone quoted as speaking for the concerned women of america, it’s a guy?

    just askin’.

  • It is a sad day when these people are more scared of gays and their supposed negative impact on morale and unit cohesion (must less the impact on the military as a whole – think post Viet Nam) than they are of the increase in gang activity due to the lowering of standards of military recruits. Call me naive, but if I were in the military I would have less trust for some of the new recruits suspected of being involved in gangs than I would of someone suspected of being gay.

    I am so damn sick and tired of this pathetic attitude being given serious consideration in national security and I could just cry.

  • Pingback: Military Blog Updates » The right condemns US military for ‘San Francisco-style social …

  • Gee, fear of socializing never stopped a noted racist like Patton from integrating the 761st “Colored” Tank battalion aka The Black Panthers into his 3rd Army in July 1944. Nor did it stop the US Army from mobilizing the 442nd Regimental Combat Team (made up of Japanese Americans) and shipping them to Italy. They needed qualified troops, period.

  • The incident he describes was only a problem because of the rules. A major imposition from learning because of an accusation. An accusation that his own story doesn’t say is or isn’t true. The rule was the imposition, not the act – if there even was one, his story doesn’t say – if the rule wasn’t there, the accusation would be no worse than any other childish thing recruits could say.

    It’s a stupid, circular argument.

  • Perhaps it is because the offender was a man. Could be that men just can’t be trusted in the military. Scary thought, that could also apply to Prez, VP, Sec of War, Head of CYA, Head of FBI, on and on. This Barber fellow could be onto something.

    Always very confusing, though, that thing about “letting them win”. Could be related to “let me have my way”, which, could be a solicitation no less.

  • “Matt Barber, policy director for cultural issues with the conservative group Concerned Women for America (CWA), agreed with Davis. “The military is no place for such radical San Francisco-style social experimentation, especially during a time of war,” he told Cybercast News Service. […]”

    No, but the military does need some more warm bodies to replace those gay soldiers you’re so afraid of.

    So ruck up, high speed!! We got us a war to fight!

  • God only knows what they would have thought of Harry Truman on 26 July 1948 when ordered the integration of the Armed Services.

  • “But what if one soldier hits on another soldier? First, by that logic, Barber and Concerned Women for America would also have to support banning straight women from military service.”
    Erm, a more direct analogy would be that we would have to ban straight MEN from service, since they are the ones who are more likely to hit on (or worse) female soldiers.

  • Hmmm…..Matt himself is one of the concerned women of America. Can someone say: gender identification issues?

  • the U.S. military, still the greatest fighting force in the world,

    put a cork in it and let our brave fighting men and women win this war on terror,” he added.

    Wow, for the greatest fighting force in the world it doesn’t take much to keep it from winning a war.

    PS WordPress needs to stop erasing everything I’ve written if it encounters an error. Bad WordPress. Bad. Bad. (3 times on this message alone).

    Send them a message at:
    http://wordpress.com/contact-support/

  • As a concerned American woman, I’m quite concerned that Concerned Women For America can’t find a concerned woman to speak for them.

  • The righties said:

    “If the bleeding-heart lefties over at CBS News and the [Servicemembers Legal Defense Network] really want to do something to support our troops and help the military, they should abandon their attempts to radically alter and undermine the armed forces, pipe down, put a cork in it and let our brave fighting men and women win this war on terror,” he added.

    That’s a laugh. How is kicking the people who have the expertise out going to help the war effort? How come we haven’t heard of one incident of a soldier screwing something important up because he was somehow too gay to handle the job?

    Sounds like it’s the conservatives who are being hysterical and should put a cork in it. We can’t let these people make important decisions for us.

    Former Dan, I didn’t know Patton was a racist (I don’t doubt it though). It would be good if you could provide an example of an anecdote verified by a real historian that can verify his racism. Anyway– you’re right of course in your broader point– if Patton was a racist, even that didn’t let probably the foremost military genius of our armed forces’ history be dumb enough to reject the troops he needed.

    And if he was racist, it makes you think about other racists in our society who wouldn’t balk at letting black people do their work for them, even though a lot of us would like things to be so simple that we could count on the racists not to, and thereby quickly identify all of them. They’re just not all that dumb.

  • More hypocrisy from all the same hysterical Jesus-freaks.

    I wonder what Matt Barber would say about the male Navy chief in my last command who was sleeping with three different female E-5s, two of them married. Probably something along the lines of “boys will be boys.”

  • Swan, if you ask then ye shall receive.

    From Wiki (but sourced from books I’ve read.)
    However, like many military officers of the era, Patton expressed his doubts about using black men in combat. On returning to headquarters afterwards, he remarked, “They (the 761st) gave a good first impression, but I have no faith in the inherent fighting ability of the race.”

    In War As I Knew It, he relates the interaction described above, and comments, “Individually they were good soldiers, but I expressed my belief at the time, and have never found the necessity of changing it, that a colored soldier cannot think fast enough to fight in armor.”

  • Let’s turn this thing around and explore its opposing definition—shall we?

    “The military is no place for such radically-jackbooted, spiked-heeled, leather-bound, whips-and-chains, dominatrix-esque, Bible-Belt-style social-wangdoodling experimentation, especially during a time of war. If the bloodthirsty CWA “mistress-ho’ brigade” hiding behind Matt Barber’s obvious gender confusion really want to do something to support our troops and help the military, they should abandon their attempts to radically alter and undermine the armed forces, pipe down, put a cork in it and let our brave fighting men and women win this war on terror,”

    Yeah—take THAT, you uglier-than-old-roadkill CWA mongrels….

  • On 60 Minutes, the argument veered away from “gays have no place in the military, ever” to “just not in the US military” when confronted with how gays are able to serve effectively in Europe, Canada, and just about everywhere else. Because American soldiers are in more intensive battles, we’re told.

    OK, then, let’s allow gays everywhere but the intensive battles. On ships, which is hardly any more stressful than British army life. Or on transport planes. Or in single-seat fighters! (I wanna ride your tail!) Or doing intelligence at the Pentagon.

    Former Dan: “fear of socializing never stopped a noted racist like Patton from integrating the 761st “Colored” Tank battalion…”

    Rep. Duncan Hunter tried to explain the difference by saying that hatred of gays is a moral position, whereas racism is just… totally different.

  • Former Dan said: Swan, if you ask then ye shall receive.

    Thanks.

    Whoa, Former Dan, that is a pretty damning anecdote. But, he was a southerner, and that was a half a century ago, so I guess it’s predictable. Nonetheless, it’s a regrattable smirch on an otherwise capable man.

    It’s worth keeping everyone aware that Patton was a southerner, because that movie they made about him portrayed him with some kind of a northern accent. Probably because of it a lot of people don’t realize he was a southern boy.

  • Well, surely we can all agree with Matt Barber that the proper US fighting force is comprised of criminals, morons and thugs, not g-g-g-gay people.

  • But what if one soldier hits on another soldier? First, by that logic, Barber and Concerned Women for America would also have to support banning straight women from military service

    Actually no, the logical outcome would be to ban straight men from military service, leaving only women serving.

  • Actually, something about Patton being racist strikes me as odd. Those were strange times, and if he wasn’t racist, he may have felt he had to make those remarks after incorporating the black units so as not to lose prestige with white colleagues. It may have been such overwhelming institutional racism, he felt he couldn’t do much against it. I’d really like to read up on Patton to see if there is more written about his racial attitudes to see if the anecdote is out-of-place. I could definitely see the racists wanting to claim him as one of their own. Also, he claimed to be the reincarnation of (of all people) Hannibal, who was a North African. I don’t think there is any history that says that Hannibal was white. So it’s at least not so likley he would claim that, if he was racist. Then there is the thing about him calling the Germans the ‘hun’ in his pep-up speech to the Third Army. Again, it could be explained if he was a racist by him just knowing his troops had to fight the Germans, and wanting his troops to perform well, but it seems less likely Patton would do it if he was a racist because he would probably have sympathy for the Germans’ racist ideology and feel funny if he said something like that about them (who he would regard as a bumch of classy guys).

    For all I learned about Patton over my years, he didn’t seem so much like the type to be racist. He was cool guy.

  • Sorry, it isn’t “San Francisco style,” it’s “Practically every military in the fucking world style.”

    Barber had an unfortunate run-in with a guy who was gay, and so therefore, the U.S. military needs a blanket policy against able-bodied gay volunteers serving their country during a war.

    First, you’re assuming this is true. Second, one guy hitting on another guy does not equal “run-in” for Barber. Third, if our military is comprised of such candy-assed wimps that one guy hitting on another guy MESSES EVERYTHING UP, then its a wonder we haven’t been invaded by every other country on the globe twice over. Fourth, I can imagine all sorts of real criminal activity goes on in basic training, theft, fights, drug dealing, but concerned woman Matt Barber remembers one guy hitting on another guy.

  • Swan,
    He was a product of his time and upbringing (good and bad.) His family fought for the South in the Civil War. Most of his white peers felt the same way even if they weren’t extensively written in the histories.

    Racists can’t call Patton one of their own because he used black troops and took care of them like his white troops unlike others (Ned Almond, for example, commander of the 92nd Infantry, an all black unit.)

  • They’re just crying because they know “gays” have more courage than they do .
    Hell, they’re more than happy to let woman fight their wars for em must be a real blow to their ego .

  • General George S. Patton was born and raised in San Gabriel, California .. how’s that make him a “southern boy” ??

  • The road Boosh has set out upon has been in a sorry state of disrepair for quite some time, six times, and for you loyal 25 percenters, that’s the amount of toes you have on your left foot. The bridge he crossed to get to what appears as a sun blasted lifeless desolate tract out in the middle of nothing (Are you sure this is the way?) is out as well, blowed up real nice, or so rumor has it. At the very least it would take quite a bit of effort to get back to where we were, as they tell me there is a sizable hobo camp inhabiting it’s forlorn and forgotten shell. The Caltrans worker he passed a day ago warned him that the rode ahead is in a dreadful condition as well, or at least that’s what he denies he said, as it was filtered through a formidable chunk of a puffy sickly sweet jelly doughnut confection crammed down his gibbering maw with suicidal abandon, unaware of the lurking type II diabetes about to cap his ass. And us? I try not to worry about the various potholes of of this preznit’s deceit, nor the road-kill that’s the price we must inevitable pay to play. Ah, but the play’s the thing, wouldn’t you agree?

    Gas is a small price to pay for the high fiber diet of Boosh’s life closely examined. Sometimes the pressure becomes too much to hold back as it attempts to escape in a barrage of born-again floppy-doodle, and we are ultimatley left with little choice but to reply to the unanswered question, squeezing out a joyous but cacophonous fanfare for this miscreant. Everybody by now has been warned or notified of his delicate mental condition, some getting more than a rebuke, others constantly thrown off kilter with every new geyser-like revelation.

    So we plug along, equally puzzled by where we’re going and the eternal battle with the con inside the White House, seeking freedom from all external constraints on our behavior. And ask anybody – he’s definitely misbehaving! The fear of being overwhelmed by, what lately seems to be the boogey-man of his impending discovered lies has foisted an extra heaping helping of denial and guilt, inserting severe limits on his normal exercise of desire, need, and deception. Afraid to move forward, fearful and preoccupied by the past, his uneasy self-hate a way of generating and then explaining his perpetual sense of being downtrodden and defeated throughout his life. When one gets chopped off at the knees by fate, it’s easy to feel defeated, which I guess is better than be fetid. The electorate has now jumped out of a plane twice without admitting how dangerous it is – Now there’s the possibility that some of the original mouth-breathers will do it again, and constantly run the lousy film back over and over. This movie sucks! The springs in the seat are goosing us big time, we can’t get comfortable, there’s sticky gak all over the floor, the popcorn is stale and over-priced, the media all around us constantly yammer, and we can’t get our money back.

    So what do you think? Do you think the tires need to be properly inflated? Or do you feel like a lot of people that the resale value on this car is going to be nil?

  • >they should […stop undermining our fighting bodily fluids…] put a cork in it [….]

    Where does this Concerned Woman want us to put that cork? Probably our mouths, since he is of the sort very concerned about The Gay being forced down our throats, but he could be more specific, I mean really.

  • First, Why does anyone waste their time watching CBS* or 60 Minutes? It is pure Socialist Democratic propaganda disguised as “News”.

    Second, the military is not a “hunting Ground” for Gay people. If they keep their sexual desires under control then they should be alright and serve with distinction. If they don’t, like normal heterosexual personnel that go awry, they should be properly punished accordingly.

    *CBS= Communicating Bull Shit

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