Goldberg joins Robertson in linking gays and Nazis

In the panoply of bizarre quotes from crazed TV preacher Pat Robertson, it’s hard not to appreciate the true lunacy from this gem from March 1990: “[Homosexuality] is a pathology. It is a sickness, and it needs to be treated…. Many of those people involved with Adolf Hitler were Satanists, many of them were homosexuals. The two things seem to go together.”

Given that Nazis put gays in concentration camps, it was more than a little odd for the Republican televangelist to connect homosexuality with “those people” with Hitler.

And yet, Jonah Goldberg, in his soon-to-be-infamous new book, “Liberal Fascism,” seems to make the same connection as Robertson. Sadly, No! has been documenting some of the more notable excerpts from Goldberg soon-to-be-remaindered book, and today highlighted this doozy:

Nazi attitudes toward homosexuality are a source of confusion. While it is true that some homosexuals were sent to concentration camps, it is also the case that the early Nazi Party and the constellation of Pan-German organizations in its orbit were rife with homosexuals.

It’s well-known, for example, that Ernst Rohm, the head of the SA, and his coterie were homosexuals, and openly so. When jealous members of the SA tried to use this fact against him in 1931, Hitler had to remonstrate that Rohm’s homosexuality was “purely in the private sphere.” Some try to suggest that Rohm was murdered on the Night of the Long Knives because he was gay. But the Rohm posted the greatest threat to Hitler’s consolidation of power because they were, in important respects, the most ardent and “revolutionary” Nazis.

Scott Lively and Kevin Abrams write in The Pink Swastika that “the National Socialist revolution and the Nazi party were animated and dominated by militaristic homosexuals, pederasts, pornographers, and sadomasochists.” This is surely an overstatement. But it is nonetheless true that the artistic and literary movements provided the oxygen for Nazism before 1933 were chockablock with homosexual liberationist tracts, clubs and journals.

So, ol’ Jonah is right there with Pat Robertson — Nazis and gays do “seem to go together.”

Sadly, No! goes line by line, pointing out how truly silly this argument is, but I thought I’d just note this report from the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum:

The Nazi campaign against homosexuality targeted the more than one million German men who, the state asserted, carried a “degeneracy” that threatened the “disciplined masculinity” of Germany. Denounced as “antisocial parasites” and as “enemies of the state,” more than 100,000 men were arrested under a broadly interpreted law against homosexuality. Approximately 50,000 men served prison terms as convicted homosexuals, while an unknown number were institutionalized in mental hospitals. Others — perhaps hundreds — were castrated under court order or coercion. Analyses of fragmentary records suggest that between 5,000 and 15,000 homosexual men were imprisoned in concentration camps, where many died from starvation, disease, exhaustion, beatings, and murder.

But in the drive to demonstrate “liberal fascism,” Jonah Goldberg had to go beyond Hillary Clinton, Whole Foods, and Swarthmore grads, and he ended up here.

In 2008, this book will truly be the gift that keeps on giving.

“When fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in the flag, carrying a cross.”

– Ron Pual (misspelling intentional), quoting Sinclair Lewis, who may or may not have said something like that.

Whatever the origin of the quote, Dr. P is right about this. The “crazed TV preacher” is an excellent example.

What does Goldberg have to say about all the closeted gay Republicans trolling in our nation’s public restrooms?

  • Hmm. Dominated by militaristic homosexuals, pederasts, etc. Why does that sound familiar? (cough) Larry Craig (cough) Jeff Gannon (cough) Mark Foley (cough).

  • I forgot to mention another similarity between Nazis and Repubs – the fact that there are so many “out” or only semi-closeted gays in an organization that is committed to the oppression of people like themselves. It is really quite puzzling.

  • I can see this book becoming the nail in the credibility casket of NRO. They are either going to have to fire him for his sloppy reasoning and abysmal fact-checking or accept that they also belleve this ridiculous drivel.

    Would you go down with the ship to defend the doughy pantload? Neither would I.

  • If the wingnuts had an ounce of brains or empathy they would begin to wonder about the large number of christian fundamentalists who still want to do much of what the Nazis failed to accomplish, and then they would reconsider whether they actually want to emulate the oppressive policies of the most notorious regime of the 20th century.

    But they don’t, so they won’t.

    In a way we’re better off with the wingnuts going over the falls in their bubble of smugness, rather than taking a different tack and remaining a problem.

    Have a nice time in the wilderness, douchebags. Never forget that God says you’re right, and He insists that you should never ever compromise on your principles.

  • Maybe they are right. The Republican party sees to be ‘rife’ with closeted, self-loathing fascists and preachers and authors who seem to be utterly obsessed with the topic.

  • People people, calm down here. This book is clearly a Mann Coulter-style cash-in on the rabidity of the Right. There’s no way anyone can believe this, and there’s no way that any publisher would allow such self-contradictory drivel to be published unless it was for the $$$. The samples at Sadly No have all the charm and coherency of an all-nighter term paper written by a College Republican. This attention that we are giving it is exactly what they want. We have bigger fish to fry (and Jonah Goldberg has bigger Twinkies to fry).

  • “…artistic and literary movements provided the oxygen for Nazism before 1933…”

    And then the Nazis banned artists and burned books.

    Did anybody edit Goldberg’s ridiculous book? From the excerpts, it looks like he needed someone to proofread for punctuation and style, let alone factual accuracy and logical consistency.

  • “animated and dominated by militaristic homosexuals, pederasts, pornographers, and sadomasochists.” Thanks to folks like Jonah, Coulter, Limbaugh and others, the pornographer part of this phrase has been fulfilled for a modern day comparison. The other three areas are just too obvious to even mention.

    Jonah’s just a feces slinging monkey. This tome is another nail in the coffin of conservatism.

  • Your Sadly, No! quote at the end of the post is really the “duh” quote– if promoting homosexuality, or homosexuality itself, was part of Nazism, how did that little thing about opposing homosexuality, sending gays to concentration camps, and making them wear pink triangles happen?

    Jonah may think he’s found the Holy Grail, but how come none of the conventional historians who have created massive amounts of writing on the Nazis, WWII, and the Holocaust, agree with him?

    The fact is, a lot of things overlapped in those days. If Jonah cared to look, he could probably find supporters of gay rights and writers about gay rights among the pre-WWII German communist groups and other non-Nazi groups. But he probably didn’t bother to look, because it would undermine his “liberal fascism” thesis. Just like we have Log Cabin Republicans today and conservatives who support environmentalism today, the world of Germany during the 1930s and 40s was no more a real world than ours is, and the Germans then did not say to themselves, “In order to make the history books cut and dry and to make for good debating circumstances for the Americans of the early 2000s, I am going to pigeonhole myself ideologically, and only support X, Y, and Z if I am with HItler, and only support A, B, and C if I am a communist, or not with Hitler.”

    if you read a book about the Nazis, you’ll notice their were more “left wing” factions of the Nazis who were more like laborers’ rights supporters- more like socialists- and right wing Nazis, who more supported Old Regime, aristocratic type policies and agendas. Neither of them was exactly on point with Hitler’s agenda, so he had to let them think they were going to get what they wanted- to maintain their support- all the while using them to help move Germany closer to becoming the Germany he wanted. They never knew it, but he was never going to let them get just what they wanted. So what some Nazis thought Nazism represented and what Hitler thought Nazism was could be two irreconsilable things.

    The point is, just becaue you find a record of some Nazis who supported something doesn’t mean “Nazism = X”. There were many, many, many people in the Nazi party and there is no record that support of homosexuals was a promoted or known part of their agenda. Hitler certainly condemended homosexuals at least a couple of times in public speeches, probably many more. Someone should ask a historian who knows to weigh in on that.

  • Just like we have Log Cabin Republicans today and conservatives who support environmentalism today, the world of Germany during the 1930s and 40s was no more a real world than ours is,

    That was supposed to be “no less”- sorry

  • If Jonah thinks a lot of liberals are homosexual just because we support gay rights, he should provide a statistic. I’ve never heard that more liberals are gay, and I think it’s just a fairy-tale people like Jonah tell themselves to make themelves feel good. It seems it’s the Republican politicians who keep being exposed as homosexuals over and over again. So right there, that deflates his thesis. If he can’t show that significantly more liberals are gay than are Republicans, there is not point to arguing that anything having to do with gays somehow has to do with Nazis (because he claims homosexuality has to do with Nazis, which he also has to prove independently). Also, there are Log Cabin Republicans and Republicans who support gays, like the Cheneys (who are openly on good terms with their gay daughter) and Condaleeza Rice (who attends committment ceremonies for her gay colleagues). That liberals openly support gay rights but conservatives don’t is easily explained by conservatives adopting the anti-gay position as pandering, as a political expediency, after all.

  • Everywhere we turn lately, we see fools and sophists passing themselves off as the mantel of the Right. Robertson or Goldberg, Jerry or Jimmy, they all seem to have a need to process out what I gather to be their own demons in public far too often, and far too inanely to boot. If their demons weren’t so dangerous to entertain, they’d be something we’d be watching on a Scooby-do cartoon. -Kevo

  • Somewhere- after having read all the criticism of his book since it came out- Jonah Goldberg is sitting around today thinking, “My book is deeply flawed.”

    Sorry, Jonah, but please accept this invitation to join the fold of the reality-based.

    Jonah Goldberg is a well-intentioned but naive person who looks at the very best and most reasonable of the conservatives and the most reactionary and dogmatic of liberals, and sees them as representing all copncervatives and all liberals, and then feels persecuted for it- that is where his writing comes from.

  • I find the notion that Ernst Rohm was somehow inexorably going to take over the Nazi party riding on a tidal wave of pro-gay Nazi support utterly incredible. When Hitler has Rohm killed, their wasn’t exactly a rebellion among the SA, and Nazi support didn’t exaclty evaporate. Jonah Goldberg should read more to get more of a context for his claims, instead of cherry picking them from one book by guys who are trying to make a poin or out of pages he jumped to from the index of one book.

    His claims are so amazing as to almost have to be intentional deception.

  • These guys should just stick to keeping company with their invisible friends and leave the rest of us alone.

  • I wonder how Jonah explains the anecdotes of SS officers who fell in love with female Jews in the concentration camps, helped them escape, and fled the SS to be with them? Or other Germans who risked themselves for no reward to help persecuted Jews?

    By his logic, it might be that Germans therefore were against anti-semitism, and Nazis were conservatives, therefore modern conservatives are opposed to anti-semitism. See? It all works out!

    If Jonah wants to grow up, and start approaching the real world as if it were– you know– reality, he would instead say, “The Germans were just people. Like all people, they were susceptible to racism, just like some Jews think all Jews are better or smarter than everybody else. Hitler conned these people- he gave susceptible, weakened people something to believe in, and told them something a lot of people want to hear: that there is something so special about them or where they are from, that it makes them better than everyone else, and in turn they are entitled to special things in life. The Germans went for it, but, being people, and being real people, not all of them were uniformly, racist, vicious hounds, and some of them continued to operate from their human feelings of compassion or empathy instead of according to the party line in their dealings with Jews.” Now, it’s not cartoon-logic, so it doesn’t lend itself to making sweeping statements to try to impugn people with, but if you really want to understand what really goes on in the world, and what people are really like, you have to examine people in a way that’s something like that.

  • Just throwing this out there for people who live in the DC/Metro area:

    According to the Random House website, Johan will be promoting his book at a downtown Borders about a week after the currently scheduled release date. At the very least I hope someone from the HRC and the Smithsonian HMM show up to tear him several new ones.

  • calvin thinks that Jonah and Tucker have their positions primarily because of their mothers’ political influence. It certainly can’t be because they have any talent or ability. They might object to this hypothesis in a manner similar to that in which a Supreme Court Justice denied having been aided in any way by Affirmative Action Laws. And, poor guy, now he isn’t having any fun.

    calvin thinks that if he had to hang around with some his peers on the SCOTUS, he wouldn’t be having any fun either. calvin isn’t mentioning any names, but you know who you are.

  • The snipped Sadly, No! have been published are absolute, crystal clear capsules of what the modern-day GOP has become.

    The book is so ridiculously put together, the logic that strings its concepts together so … non-existent, and the claims not just factually wrong but also inflammatory, that it actually serves as the perfect example of the neoconservativism. It will be used for years as the gold standard of a failed and corrupt movement.

    For that, we should probably thank Doughy Pantload.

    Oh, and for … the … love … of … god … Swan — could you please either put your thoughts in one post or, if you have too many, just post on your site with a link posted here? It gets old having to scroll through comment after long-winded comment from you. You have some great thoughts every now and then, but they’re often lost because you have the tendency to spam threads with conversations with yourself.

  • I’m quite familiar with The Pink Swastika, having argued with a wingnut with a truly massive gay obsession who for years eagerly promoted it. Just sent Jonah a link to the annotated PS, which documents Lively and Abrams’ staggering number of errors and distortions. Goldberg should be ashmed to have resurrected this piece of crap.

  • Laugh all you will, this joke of a book is probably getting bought up by more liberals then conservatives. I bet there are more posts and more coverage by liberals then conservatives. How’s really laughing ??

    The fact that any self respecting liberal paid money for it is a testament to our gullibility. But by all means, please go buy a copy and discuss it until the sun rises with your liberal friends.

    This book is the Reality TV of politics.

  • I though The Producers was pretty clear evidence of the entanglement between homosexuality and Naziism.

  • (sing to the tune of “Love and Marriage”):

    Gays and nazis, gays and nazis
    Go together in a tent revival
    This I tell you brother
    You cant have one without the other

  • I can’t wait for an actual scholar to eat up Goldberg’s nonsense. Typical half-truth — Rohm and his crew were indeed known to be gay, and they were also the “socialist” part of National Socialism. They were completely eliminated, killed in cold blood, and the Nazi party turned decidedly right, more or less into a authoritarian war-time economy, from that point forward.

  • Swan,

    He’s just saying that to piss you off and put liberals on the defensive. He says such things because he knows that we’ll defend the rights of gay people to exist in this country so he can say, “A ha! See I told you”. It’s childish.
    And what’s wrong with pornography? He talks about it like it’s a bad thing. I am not at all ashamed to say that I, like many people, like the occasional porn movie night. There is nothing wrong with it. Like anything it can become an unhealthy addiction. I would think for most people it’s one of those guilty pleasures. We are by nature sexual and voyeuristic beings. We all are which would leave me to believe that God created us this way. “What God a has given, let no man take away.” (book of Mark.) Ok, so that’s a little out of context. There is NO WAY anyone could convince me that all of these moralists that rail against porn don’t themselves partake occasionally or regularly (my feeling is that they like the underage kind).

  • You have some great thoughts every now and then, but they’re often lost because you have the tendency to spam threads with conversations with yourself.

    Mark D, comments like what you wrote here are trolling. What I wrote isn’t spam, nor is it a conversation with myself. It’s debunking Jonah Goldberg’s bullshit. Comments like yours look like attempts to shame me into not writing my intelligent comments on CB’s posts. Cut it out.

  • It sounds like the substance behind the “story” is that Ernst Rohm was gay, plus there were 5 guys or so who wrote pro-gay pamphelets who later became Nazis. But to Jonah Goldberg, that’s like Nazism = pro-gayness. Whatever.

    It’s funny, by the way, that every time I write five or so really fact-based comments on a post that pick apart some conservative’s argument to bits, some regular commenter goes nuts and tries to shame me into not participating on this blog.

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