When someone other than Giuliani hits the terrorism button

There’s a line between talking about national security on the campaign stump and exploiting the politics of fear. I just don’t always know where that line is.

Clearly, ads like this one from Rudy Giuliani fall into the “shameless demagoguery” category. If the former mayor wants to emphasize the terrorist threat, that makes sense. If he wants to argue that he has a strategy to prevent attacks, terrific. But for the better part of the year, Giuliani has instead decided to effectively tell voters, “If you don’t vote for me, you might die.” It worked for Bush-Cheney nearly four years ago, but Giuliani seems to be struggling with the pitch.

On the Democratic side of the aisle, meanwhile, we have this.

Facing the prospect of defeat in tomorrow’s primary, Hillary Clinton just made her strongest suggestion yet that the next president may face a terrorist attack — and that she would be the best person to handle it.

She pointed out that the day after Gordon Brown took office as the British prime minister, there was a failed attempt at a double bombing in London and Glasgow.

“I don’t think it was by accident that Al Qaeda decided to test the new prime minister,” she said. “They watch our elections as closely as we do, maybe more closely than some of our fellows citizens do…. Let’s not forget you’re hiring a president not just to do what a candidate says during the election, you want a president to be there when the chips are down.”

This comes immediately on the heels of a new direct-mail piece from Clinton allies to voters in New Hampshire: “‘A Prime Minister is on the phone: They’ve lost a warhead,’ says the fictional memo on the front of the mailing. The solution? ‘Send in the right woman for the job.'”

I can’t quite decide how close to the line this is.

On the one hand, Clinton has a pitch to make: she has a broader foreign policy background than Obama does. As part of this message, it’s not unreasonable for Clinton to make the case that in the event of a crisis, she believes she’s best prepared to handle the emergency.

On the other hand, Clinton’s argument seems to go quite a bit further than that. She’s arguing that, come 2009, al Qaeda is going to try and kill Americans, testing the new president. In other words: Be afraid.

Seeing this, Matt Yglesias adds, “For the ‘using Republican talking points’ watch, Hillary Clinton warns that terrorists will devour your children if Barack Obama is elected president.”

Now, I’m not sure if I’d go that far. In fact, I’m not entirely sure Clinton’s comments were entirely out of line, though they seem to go in the “politics of fear” direction.

Let’s open this up; I’d love some feedback — Clinton’s comments were fair and reasonable, or they were unfair and bordering on fear-mongering. What say you?

Easy. It’s over the line. Her message of a big scarey world (Republicans and Mean people) that only a few (herself) are able to protect us from is not working anymore.

Anyways if they really wanted to talk about protecting us, it’s not about the President being Sherlock Holmes it’s about policyand resources. So lets talk about those and not about President Super Heros.

  • I vote for unfair and fear-mongering. In particular, the supposition the London and Glasgow bombings were somehow timed and purposefully testing a new leader, without any real evidence to support this.

  • Hey Hill don’t offer us false fear. I think her example was far enough removed from being scary that it was fair enough.

  • Doesn’t the analogy that a terrorist attack equates to the chips being down kind of understate the serious nature or said attack?

    And, when you send out a mailer with fake memos about missing warheads, you are warmongering, but what do you expect from a Kyl-Lieberman yea vote.

  • Anyways if they really wanted to talk about protecting us, it’s not about the President being Sherlock Holmes it’s about policy and resources. So lets talk about those and not about President Super Heros.

    here here!

  • It’s fear-mongering. Clinton did nothing more than the Rude Dude does — set up the scenario and say he’s da Man. Now, if she’d given us some insight into how she’d approach the hypothetical situation or what action she’d take, that’d be something else entirely. If asked, however, my guess is she’d say she doesn’t deal in hypotheticals.

  • I honestly don’t know. But one thing for sure is that I wish (and hope) all of my candidates (Obama, Clinton, Edwards, Richardson, Kucinich) would refrain from using GOP talking points on the stump.

  • You really make this difficult CB.

    Hillary is skirting the line, there is no question. But then America is in danger. This may sound like a Republican’t Conservative frame, but then they’ve won a few elections with it.

    The real question is how will the person react in such a crisis. Now I know that Guiliani, Cheney and BGII reacted incompetently after the 9/11/01 attacks. I don’t know if Hillary would have reacted competently…

    … except she was there in 1999, before the Millienium terrorist attacks. You know, the ones that didn’t happen. And they didn’t happen because the Clinton White House was full of adults and policy wonks and people who thought Government ought to work and thus rather than go on a vacation when America was under threat, they dealt with it.

    Hillary Clinton may deserve no credit for it, but at least she’s got the sense to hang with the kind of people who can protect America. So yes CB, I think she gets a pass on this one.

  • It’s too obvious an argument. We’ve had six years of every event and decision being framed against a terrorist threat. Of course the American people think about who can protect this nation while sizing up their choice for President.

    As a contrast, in his Iowa speech Obama said:

    “And I’ll be a President … who understands that 9/11 is not a way to scare up votes, but a challenge that should unite America and the world against the common threats of the twenty-first century…”

    How refreshing is that?

  • Clinton’s comments were fair and reasonable, or they were unfair and bordering on fear-mongering. What say you?

    I’d say her desperation has made her go well over the border, and I say that because she has so little credibility on the terror/security issue. If we’re attacked again, does she think that Obama would do something as stupid as helping launch a war on a state which wasn’t involved, like she did? What about the Iran resolution? Is she wanting that kind of security enhancement?

    If Hillary and a lot of other Dems had been smarter, we’d be in a lot better position security wise. To hear her act like she’s going to keep us safe is laughable.

  • “Clinton’s comments were fair and reasonable, or they were unfair and bordering on fear-mongering?

    Bordering on fear-mongering? No.

    Fear-mongering? Definitely yes!

    I’ve supported Obama all along, but I would have been comfortable with either Clinton, Edwards, Dodd, Biden… But Senator Clinton is really starting to piss me off.

  • Correction, I should have said “To hear her act like she’s going to keep us safe is laughable.”, I should have said “safer”, not “safe”. IMO Hillary would keep us about as safe as any Dem with a brain.

  • This is a bit off-topic, but to piggy-back on my previous post — another Clinton comment that irritated me during the Saturday night debate was her argument that electing a woman would bring “change”. Did she not realize that a Hispanic candidate was sitting next to her and a black candidate was two seats down?

  • She’s straddling the line.

    Manipulating the electorate by fear is reprehensible regardless of party affiliation. HRC’s suggestion that we will suffer an attack and that she’s the only one who can protect us is no better than a playground bully scaring a smaller kid. The fact of her gender and politics provides no moral cover whatever.

    The print ad, on the other hand, is a bit softer. It doesn’t explicitly say that the dingos are about to eat your babies, and has a bit of a smile at in the punchline (at least the way I read it).

    If this is ‘True Hillary’, she’s stands to lose a lot of support.

  • Chris said: “This is a bit off-topic, but to piggy-back on my previous post — another Clinton comment that irritated me during the Saturday night debate was her argument that electing a woman would bring “change”. Did she not realize that a Hispanic candidate was sitting next to her and a black candidate was two seats down?”

    I didn’t watch, so I need to ask. Did she say it as though to imply that Obama or Richardson’s election would not also be change?

    Because, after all, woman have been kept out of power too, and they do represent more than 50% of the population.

  • Let’s open this up; I’d love some feedback — Clinton’s comments were fair and reasonable, or they were unfair and bordering on fear-mongering. What say you?

  • We absolutely MUST win the Global War On a Psychological State (or a Nefarious Tactic, if you prefer). Now, I’m not sure how you “win” a “war” on a psychological state (or a nefarious tactic, if you prefer), but the moment that Americans experience terror, or the nefarious tactic of terrorism is perpetrated against them, we have surely lost this global war (and have to start all over again). So, we MUST stay on the “offensive” against said psychological state (or nefarious tactic, if you prefer).

    I guess what I’m saying is that since 9/11 happened (and the “unsolved” anthrax terrorist attacks upon United States Senators happened) we MUST remain at DEFCON 1 (and perpetual “war”) indefinitely or until we “win.”

  • 2 things:

    (1) AFSCME leadership has nothing better to do than copy and paste Karl Rove mailers.

    (2) AFSCME rank and file couldn’t care less – reference: Iowa.

  • Crap, I don’t know what happened to my comment there.

    After the quote, it was supposed to say this:

    I think with what Clinton said, the answer is, the Republicans started it. We are already in an environment where people talk about terrorism too much to scam and scare voters. What’s wrong with a Democrat responding to the concerns of voters about terrorims when the Republicans have already created the psychological environment for the voters to be hyper-focused on it. As is said, “You snooze, you lose.” So long as Hillary’s comments weren’t gratuitous, it’s not a big deal, and I think these commments weren’t.

  • Fear-mongering, versus hope-mongering; which would you rather have? Me, I find fear paralyzing; it stops me from taking action. It’s that what Hillary wants us to be? Immobilized zombies?

  • Yes, it’s fearmongering, but it’s still fair. If Obama can’t handle himself on the National Security question then whoever the Republicans eventually nominate will eat him for breakfast in November. And we all know that the Republicans will be a lot further over the line than anything Clinton will do.

  • Crisis and fear aid Republicans.

    If she is asked about a loose nuke or some other terrorist threat at a debate, I’m fine with Hillary claiming to be the best woman for the job of responding to it. As long as she then lists the steps that she will take to prevent that from ever happening.

    For added points, she can talk about the failures of recent Republican administrations to take similar steps to prevent the terrorist threats. (Take your pick: supporting Saddam Hussein when he used chemical weapons against his own people; funding Osama bin Ladin in his fight against the Soviet Union; trading arms to Iran for hostages; defunding anti-terrorism measures after January 20, 2001; ignoring a Presidential Daily Briefing entitled “Bin Ladin determined to attack within the United States; the list goes on.)

    Bringing up a hypothetical terrorist threat spontaneously, she’s trafficking in Republican talking points. It shows she either doesn’t know how to win as a progressive Democrat, or she doesn’t wish to do so.

  • I can’t believe I’m going to defend Hillary when I have no intention of voting for her but does anybody really believe that al Qaeda doesn’t watch what’s happening in American politics? They don’t strike me as stupid people. They seem to watch their enemy aka us pretty closely. Whoever is elected will be pushed in some way, whether that happens here or somewhere else. That’s not fearmongering, that’s reality. And what have they been hearing about Obama almost non stop during this whole campaign? That he is inexperienced. If you were al Qaeda and Obama is elected, wouldn’t you test that assertion? And it isn’t isolated historically. Young kings often found themselves forced to demonstrate their tactical/military skills, at least since ancient Egyptian times. More recently, if JFK had been older and more experienced, do you think the USSR would have been so overt about the missiles in Cuba?

    I like Obama but his lack of experience does worry me. That worry is reasonable. That another politician points it out does not alter the fact that it is reasonable.

  • Jen and Anyone else who want to respond, but I really don’t understand this Obama wouldn’t know what to do if they attack right after he is elected. He isn’t screening bags at JFK, he’s isn’t going to personally be responsible for ground tactics in Iraq, he won’t personally be listening to chatter and all that other stuff. We are picking a president for their judgement in selecting people to be in charge of those things, their policy decisions, their internationl diplomacy, ect.

    What resource does one canidate have over the other is checking baggage? They will ultimately depend on the same millitary and civilian personel to do all the real work, until policy is changed.

  • also…sorry to ramble, but does anyone have an example of what the correct thing to do is? Is there a manual? I do believe most of us would agree the United States Goverment (remember we don’t have just one ‘decieder’) didn’t get the last few responses to attacks correct.

  • I’m with DM Andy.

    It’s fear-mongering and fair. Just ’cause it’s fair though, doesn’t mean I have to like it.

  • I think Obama is a smart man and will select smart people to advise him. While others will do the real work, he is the decider, the one to tell them what to do. Since he is perceived as young and inexperienced on foreign affairs, someone out there will try to test that inexperience. I just worry that in having to prove he is a strong leader – and he must prove he is a strong leader, he will overreact. JFK very nearly did. An older, more experienced leader would probably not be tested the same way and thus would not be placed in a position to overreact.

    As I’ve said before, I like Obama. While I will vote for Edwards in the primary, I will campaign for any of these candidates.

  • Thank you Jen…I get where you are coming from now. So in the end you only need to hope he understands the point you just made and not that he was older.

  • Eliott, That he understands the point and can act accordingly when the pressure is focused exclusively on him. Experience would make that easier. Having spent his life in a racist world while still maintaining his sense of hope and grace, he stands a fair chance. But it’s not a gamble I’m comfortable with.

  • Where is Hilary’s foreign policy experience? She is in her second term of her first elected office. Riding shotgun to her husband doesn’t qualify as “experience.” She doesn’t get any top secret breifings being first lady. The fact is that Obama has held several elected offices and a spot on the Senate Foreign Relations committee and Homeland Security Committee. If we’re going to talk “experience” lets not forget that years don’t equal experience. If not saying the Obama has the perfect experience either, but I’m tired of the assumption that Hilary is the “experience ” candidate.

  • I’m not so sure that I wold call it “fear-mongering,” as that would suggest it’s being done for a hidden agenda. “Fear-pandering” might be a better term—and yes, she’s guilty as sin.

  • Let me get this straight. Al Qaeda is going to want to “test” Obama because of his inexperience….in order to find out what exactly? Whether he’s weak? And how does a “strong, experienced” President react to an attack that would make them refrain from attacking? Start a war?

    Don’t tell me about experience. Tell me about policy.

  • By Hillary’s logic we should just let Bush stay in office forever, than for sure we won’t haved to go through the “al qaeda attacks a new president” test.

    What’s her point?

  • I’ve thought for a long time that a change in government would be an opportunity for another (presumably smaller scale than 9/11) strike, especially if a Democrat who was likely to get serious about going after al-Qaeda was elected. It’s just a good opportunity to destabilize the nation, and force a continuation of highly symbolic and totally ineffective policies that ultimately serve AQ interests far more than ours.

    But while I’m sure HRC would appoint good people, the fact is that no one person or department could be prepared to effectively handle an attack soon after a changeover. They just wouldn’t have had time to formulate plans, review whatever hypothetical scenarios (if any) had already been developed, and assign responsibilities. A new government is just vulnerable, and I doubt HRC could shorten than window of vulnerability by more than a couple of weeks, if that. Even the best hires still have to learn the org chart.

  • Random, late night thought… can anyone imagine how helpful Bush/Cheney would likely be to an HRC transition team? Would it be too generous to expect a 1 on a scale of 1 to 10?

  • That goes for any Democrat at all, Beep. Any Democrat at all. If they’re not with them, they’re against them.

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