Obama’s vision of a ‘working majority’

One of the more persistent knocks against Barack Obama has less to do with his specific policy proposals, which are pretty clearly progressive, and more to do with his “post-partisan” style. By emphasizing “bringing people together,” Obama, according to his Democratic critics, too often sounds like he’s using “conservative frames,” “right-wing talking points,” and sending “dog-whistle” signals to the right.

Of course, nearly all of this is in the eye of the beholder. For Obama fans, he’s appealing to independents and fed-up Republicans to expand the party and build a broader Democratic coalition. For Obama opponents, the exact same appeals are part of some kind of “triangulation” strategy. Worse, his critics say, Dems are just supposed to take Obama on “faith” — he seems like he’s using a moderate tone to advance a liberal agenda, but what if he’s actually moderate?

Kevin touched on this yesterday:

[I]n the end, this is what it all comes down to. Is Obama kidding or not? Does he really believe that he can enact a progressive agenda by reaching out to Republicans and bridging the red-blue divide, or is he just saying this as a way of shaping public opinion and winning an election? And if he does believe it, is he right?

As a lot of us point out endlessly, both Obama and Hillary Clinton have very similar views on both domestic and foreign policy. Not identical, but pretty close. So really, the key question for progressives ought to be this: Which political style is most likely to advance the cause of progressivism? The soothing, post-partisan Obama style, or the more directly political Clinton style?

It’s a multi-faceted question, and I hesitate to over-simplify matters, but I think Kevin’s description is quite right. What’s more, given some of Obama’s comments in the debate last night, I think the senator’s sensitive to the question.

Consider some of these remarks from the event in South Carolina:

“I want to be clear. What I said had nothing to do with [Republican] policies. I spent a lifetime fighting a lifetime against Ronald Reagan’s policies. But what I did say is that we have to be thinking in the same transformative way about our Democratic agenda. We’ve got to appeal to Independents and Republicans in order to build a working majority to move an agenda forward. That is what I said. […]

“[W]hen you talked about taking on the Republicans, how important it is I think to redraw the political map in this country. And the reason I say that is that we have gone through the 2000 election, the 2004 election, both of which were disappointing elections. But the truth is that we as Democrats have not had a working majority in a very long time. And what I mean by that is a working majority that could push through the kinds of bold initiatives that all of us have proposed. And one of the reasons that I am running for president is because I believe that I can inspire new people to get involved in the process, that I can reach out to independents and, yes, some Republicans who have also lost trust in their government and want to see something new. When you look at Bush and Cheney and their record, the one good thing they’ve done for us is they have given their party a very bad name. That gives us a unique opportunity in this election, and what we can’t do, I think, is just to take the playing field as a given. We want to expand the scope of the electorate so that we can start getting a 60 percent majority, more folks in the House, more folks in the Senate, and I think that’s something I can do.

“And that’s why we’ve seen record turnout in every election so far. I’m not taking all the credit for it. I think people are voting against George Bush. But I also think that we’ve inspired people who had not previously voted before, and that’s what the Democratic Party has to do.”

Now, one can certainly argue that Obama’s strategy is flawed. For that matter, one can say the strategy is sound, but Obama is the wrong candidate to execute it.

But I think it’s increasingly clear what Obama is actually trying to do — put a moderate face on a liberal platform, in the hopes of expanding the Democratic pie. Maybe that can work, maybe not, but I think the suggestions that he’s some kind of triangulating, Gingrich-loving closet-Reaganite are misguided.

See, that’s the problem with a lot of so-called liberals and conservatives: there’s always that “us verus them” mentality. What Obama is getting at is most of the country doesn’t see themselves as a liberal or a conservative before they see themselves as American.

The reason nobody in the federal government can get anything done is they’re too busy slinging mud when one person praises a member of the other party and vice versa. Wouldn’t it be nice in 2008 if the election was so definitive nobody could cry “recall” or “fraud” instead of having some really close race?

The times when government works best is when there’s some compromise. You can disagree all you want, but Hillary could have the best policy ideas in the history of mankind, but if she wins in November she’ll be in a four year punching match with the Republicans and nothing will get done.

  • I think CNN’s Bill Schneider framed this pretty well:

    The debate also showcased the remarkably different primary strategies of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama. She’s going for the partisans that have historically constituted the overwhelming majority of primary voters. This is clear over and over again in her language, every time she talks about “fighting Republicans.”

    Obama, on the other hand, talks a very different game — he repeatedly said last night he can forge consensus, and will work with Republicans.

    Clinton’s strategy of going for the partisans in the primaries has shown itself to be a winning one time and again. But this election season has been anything but normal — and it’s possible that after eight years with one of the most partisan presidents in history, even partisan Democrats want a consensus builder.

    Clinton is running as the anti-Bush, while Obama is running as the un-Bush. Which will primary voters prefer?

    I understand what HateTheGame is saying in #1 above, but the Republicans gained a ton of structural advantage through this “punching match” starting back when they obstructed Bill Clinton’s judges. My fear is that “compromise” takes teh form requested in WaPo editorials: that Democrats let the slate start clean. Unfortunately, history cannot be undone. If we want to really accomplish anything progressive that is meaningful, we have to keep up the fight at least until the playing field is level. Otherwise our good works will be undone by conservative judges, undermined by bureaucracies stuffed with Bushies, etc.

    Schneider’s frame describes exactly why I support HRC over Obama. I think they are both good people with good proposals, but I want a fighter not a conciliator. It is why I supported Dean over Kerry as well.

  • I agree with you, HateTheGame (and I like the fact that you don’t hate the players!) What you articulated is one of the prime reasons that I am supporting Obama and not Hillary. On a policy level, there is barely a centimeter of daylight between the programs they propose. But I foresee Obama as someone who can implement his policies without incurring the wrath of the fire-breathing right by simply existing. That’s the problem with the Clintons; they are so reflexively reviled by the right, the mere existence of Hillary is a call to arms for the GOP. Obama is someone who– dare I say it– can make progressivism popular. I understood right away what he was getting at last week in that quotation about Reagan; he aspires to be the Reagan of the left, a galvanizer who can inspire people to cross party lines in droves and embrace a new vision for this country. Whether or not he can do that is an interesting question– when I see Obama the orator, I think so, but when I see Obama the debater, I get a little worried. Nevertheless, I do believe he would have more a shot of doing so than Hillary, who, by the simple fact of her surname, will mobilize Republicans to keep obstructing progress just for the hell of it.

  • We have been repeatedly told that most Americans support liberal positions but somehow get conned into voting against the party that might actually try to achieve those positions. Perhaps, Obama is just trying to run that gauntlet to get elected. Were all the SC justices who turned out to be liberal on the bench just a pack of dirty liars? No theres a RWTP for you,lol.

  • Why does anyone buy HRC’s rhetoric about “fighting the Republicans”? That is just pandering to the primary constituency.

    Her whole career in politics amply demonstrates that she will NOT “fight the Republicans,” except to win or hold onto office. In policy terms, she will do everything humanly possible to avoid being perceived as a liberal. Nobody is going to get to her right on the use of force. She is a triangulating, DCL-style, tough on crime centrist who will sell out progressive interests in a heartbeat just like she sold us all out in voting for the Iraq War, which she has never apologized for. Has she even take a strong stand against waterboarding or warrantless wiretapping? Short answer: no. She and Chelsea Clinton had a champagne toast at the demise of Howard Dean at the 2004 DNC.

    HRC has a history in American politics, and the picture is clear. Progressives, she is not on your side, and I can’t figure out why anyone is capable of deluding themselves about this. It’s not like she’s a fresh face on the American political scene.

  • I think that Obama’s “post-partisan” strategy is exactly right. There are a lot of Republican voters in my neighborhood (and probably yours) who are fed up and ready to try something else, but they can’t. The past propaganda has been too effective for them to abruptly switch sides, even though they may have figured out that they have been voting against their own interests all these years.

    Everyone who has been wrong needs a way to save face when he faces the truth. Saint Ronald always said that he didn’t leave the Democrats, the Democrats left him, which invited other Democrats to join him. So it will have to be for us to get back the votes of the Reagan Democrats.

    There are plenty of reasons for disgusted Republicans to vote with the Democrats this fall. Hillary Clinton isn’t one of them.

  • The health care debate in the early 90’s is a good example of how Hillary fought hard, but failed to accomplish anything, despite the fact (I believe) that most people wanted a health care system that works for all. Obama’s appeal is that he’ll be less easy to demonize, in part because he does subtly concede that Republicans are not all evil. That said, he doesn’t concede that the Republican ideology is anything less than awful, even though it sounds that way to people who get agita when they hear the name Reagan.

  • …what Obama is actually trying to do — put a moderate face on a liberal platform, in the hopes of expanding the Democratic pie.

    Is is really a “moderate face”? Or is he reaching out to Republicans on those areas where there ought to be common ground? For example, some Republicans might join the groundswell for universal healthcare if only it wasn’t associated with Democrats who are associated with abortion, which they loathe. Obama seems to be saying, We may disagree on some things, but let’s work together on our common interests.

    The question is whether him saying it is enough to overcome what Okie calls the “past propaganda.” But how else is it accomplished, other than by reaching out?

  • I sense Obama could be the progressive answer to Reagan. Keep in mind in 1984 Reagan won all but one state, a landslide the likes of which the US had never seen. A new term, “Reagan Democrat” described how he won. This is why his legacy has fueled the conservative movement to this day.

    Based on the (unfortunately large number of) independents and Republicans I know, Obama has the potential to coin the term “Obama Republicans”. If we have that kind of mandate (in a first term, no less) working for progressivism, we may be able to actually make some progress.

  • Every candidate has a schizophrenic challenge: win the primary, then win the general. Under normal circumstances this mens being really progressive, then sliding back to the center.

    This year’s already different, and it’s likely to get more so. With Republicans in moral collapse and strategic disarray, I think this is the time to be progressive in the primary, progressive in the general. Like it or lump it. “Be ye either hot or cold, but be not lukewarm….” The public is tired of pussyfooting and triangulating. We’ll have the votes. Let’s go for broke.

    The alternative is treading water and hoping we won’t be swamped. I think that’s naive in today’s world. We’ve already given away all our manufacturing jobs, and they’re not coming back. What jobs we have left are in construction and agriculture, and for those we want cheap labor. So what’s left? We need to turn to totally new industries — manufacturing efficient solar generators, e.g., which will incidentally lessen our dependence on oil. We need to pull out of the one-and-a-half-trillion dollar sink hole in Iraq. We need to have a sensible health care program in contrast to the dollar drain we have now.

    For me, Edwards is the only one with anything like this “vision”. The others are only slightly better entertainment than professional wrestlers.

  • But I don’t want a moderate face. I don’t want a moderate anything. I want heads on pikes and a purge of the Bushies. Moderation to me means accepting the last 8 years as the base and working with that. We don’t need a new face or a new deal we need a whole damn new foundation. I don’t think either Hilary or Obama will even offer, much less provide, a new foundation. So all I am left with is who will be the least disappointing.

  • geez, i dont know what Republican party you all have been watching the past 20 years, but its not the same one I’ve seen. They can be changed by “reaching out”? Really?

    this party is disciplined, dirty, and evil. they have shown a willingness to break any law, a greed that cannot be sated, and there is no tactic too low. Every attempt to play nice, especially when the Dems retook Congress, was taken advantage of and thrown in our faces. Even if a Republican senator, for example, wanted to play nice, McConnell would twist his or her arm until it broke.

    just because Obama has charmed you doesn’t mean he can charm them (seen any evidence of it in the Senate?) the Republicans have successfully run things from a minority position, they aren’t about to concede easily. they understand one thing and one thing only: force.

    they’ll take your outreach and your reluctance to crush them and every extra minute it buys them will be used to obstruct, to continue to hurt those who most need help.

    we’re gearing up to take a knife to a gun fight again. who will be shocked when we and everyone we claim to support gets shot? those who aren’t rich and entrenched need a fighter. if you wont get in the gutter with Boehner, McConnell, Rove, you’ve already lost (just ask Max Cleland, Al Gore or John Kerry to name three). you want to put a stake through the heart of their movement, you have to find them where they live – let me tell you, it ain’t on the shining hill.

    Oh by the way, for everyone here who slams on the Telecom Act of 96, but think Clinton is more corporate than Obama, remember that Michelle is an attorney at Sidley & Austin and one of their largest longest clients is AT&T. Just a thought.

  • Mr. Composer,

    I think if the last 8 years has taught us anything it’s that the psychology of our President, their temperment, and “vibe” if you will are paramount to how they can (or can’t) lead effectively.

    I’m a conservative at heart, but I *want* someone who can talk me into some sort of healthcare system that works for the country as a whole, not just the rich and famous. I want someone who wants to show me why their way is better, not just pander to whoever the base is today.

    I’m not saying that the parties shouldn’t fight over judges(if there’s every a time to be concerned about the bent of a person in our government, it’s in the case of judicial appointments). I’m also not saying we’re going to all hold hands and sing kumbayah all the time, but I’m sick of feeling disgraced by my President. Through stupidity, or inablity to keep thy fly zipped, or whaever else.

  • Oh by the way, for everyone here who slams on the Telecom Act of 96, but think Clinton is more corporate than Obama, remember that Michelle is an attorney at Sidley & Austin and one of their largest longest clients is AT&T. Just a thought.

    So there’s equivalence? Clinton signed the Tcom act 0f ’96 into law. Obama’s wife works for Sidley and Austin. Yeah, that balances out. You fogot to throw in that Obama often uses the telephone.

  • Obama’s “Post-Partisanism” is the ultimate weapon against against the Neocon Beastie.

    Just spend a few seconds thinking about what “the party of Bush, Cheney, and Rove” would look like, if you drained away the support it’s had over the years from Independents, BlueDogs, Christians who now equate “Conservative” with “Xenophobic Hatemongering War-on-Everything Disease” and moderate Republicans.

    Imagine a GOP that’s reduced to it’s permanent “28% Solution Base”—and compare it against a comprehensive, “Anti-GOP coalition” that wields a 72% majority.

    A coalition that leans Left, but contains its own system of checks and balances.

    A coalition that doesn’t move forward with the lightning speed that some Progressives and Liberals might want—but at least moves forward, instead of regressing back to the knuckledragging era.

    A coalition that can last long enough to guarantee that another Alito never makes it to SCOTUS, and another Brown never makes it to FEMA, and another Gonzo never, ever, EVER makes it to AG.

    A coalition that will forever prevent another presidency like the one we’re cursed with now—rather than one that will, once in power, merely revert to the status quo that led to the rise of Newt Gingrich.

  • The conventional wisdom is that a Dem will most likely win the next election.

    With Hillary I believe her floor and ceiling are probably for votes is around the 50% mark. And her unfavorable ratings are about the same. Obama has a much higher ceiling for support.

    I guess the choice now is to roll the dice and go for HRC and hope she can win a 51-49 victory over McCain. We’ll probably lose some house seats and pick up a seat or two in the senate; or

    Go with Obama and get at 51-49 victory at worst. But if you go with Obama there is a real possibility a big time win both at the top of the ticket and down ballot.

    If you are looking for someone to bring in new generations of Dems for years to come; or bring the reagan Dem’s back to the fold; or convince non-wingnut Repub’s to cross party lines Obama is the one. HRC can do none of those things.

    HRC may be able to duke out a narrow victory over McCain. However, Obama is a game changer.

  • Martin,

    That’s the whole issue, you’re not going to get that. Granted, I’d love to see Bush, Cheney, and the lot of ’em locked up for war crimes. Let’s come back to reality. The President’s job is to help the American people. More vitriol and divide will only succed in what we have now: Congress passing boatloads of legislation that it knows will never get signed into law.

    If you’re suggesting we don’t need a “new deal” what’s the old deal that will give you the revenge you want and at what cost? We can go back to 1858 when members of congress were coming into the capitol building with guns, that’ll solve a lot…

  • Steve,

    You took the words right out of my mouth. Thank you! I’ll check in later, I need to stop posting every 3 seconds.

  • Obama’s comments from last night (re: Reagan) sound like “damage control.” His over-denying of partisanship is insipid. Choosing not to be strident is one thing; but acting like there’s a “third way” couldn’t be more “Clintonian.”

    My preference of candidate is based on acting like a real Democrat that will stand up to the Republicans: Edwards (1st), Hillary (2nd), and Obama (3rd).

    I also agree with comments by zeitgeist.

  • If we want to really accomplish anything progressive that is meaningful, we have to keep up the fight at least until the playing field is level. -zeitgeist

    But first we have to win, and if that electoral map you posted yesterday is any indication, as I have long suspected, it will be harder to do than a lot of Democrats think.

    I think Obama is right about building a coalition and healing the partisan divide, and the way to do that is to get Independent and moderate Republican voters invested in Democrats now.

    It’s isn’t about just winning the Presidency this time; it’s about bringing people around to the Democratic way of thinking and winning down ballot and creating a lasting effect.

    Schneider’s frame describes exactly why I support HRC over Obama.

    And also why people like myself are leaning towards Obama. Sorry Dennis, maybe I’ll still give you a pity vote! 🙁

    I’m certainly not one of those starry-eyed Obama supporters that make Zeitgeist and others so weary and sardonic; he has flaws and makes mistakes, but I’m of the opinion that building a bridge is a better way to progress across a ravine than throwing dynamite into it.

  • The country is tired of Bush and his BS, just as they were tired of Clinton and his (different) BS but the end of the term. And Clinton’s BS cost Gore the election..

    I see Obama reaching out to disenfranchised Republican voters, and there are a LOT of them. Hillary won’t get them.

  • Hey zeitgeist, I think you’re thinking that Obama wants to reach out to the Republicans who have been fucking us all over for decades, but those aren’t the Republicans he’s talking about reaching. What I’m getting (could be wrong!) is that he wants to reach past those jerks and grab the people who would normally back them up. He wants to grab the folks who really don’t know what their Republican leadership is doing or even agree with it.

    There’s a lot of potential voters who have historically but not always voted R simply because there was an R by the guy’s name. Think about how many Republicans believed that Bush was progressive on climate change and a host of other issues. They were conned by the Tom Delay bunch who knew damn well that their voters don’t really support what they’ve been doing.

    It looks like Obama wants to connect with those republicans, and basically steal them away from their party, the way Reagan did with the “Reagan Democrats”. Of course Reagan screwed those RDs, but that’s not Obama’s fault nor is it our concern. If anything it makes those people less likely to vote R.

    my $.02

  • As usual, the media missed the most important message which Obama delivered last night and I hope that both Hillary and John were listening when he delivered it.

    One of the chief criticisms of Obama is that his “unity message” won’t make the evil Republicans play nice-nice if he wins the presidency. He made the case I have been trying to articulate. His goal is not just to win the White House, its to build a Democratic-led coalition that exceeds 60% by also sweeping out obstructionist Republicans in November too! This cannot be emphasized enough. Further, in my opinion, Obama hasn’t framed bringing new voters into the fray as something solely for himself. If Hillary and John were truly wise they’d stop framing their candidacies upon THEIR ambitions and join Barack in making it about the COALITION more than themselves.

    To me the greatest development that could occur for the Democratic Party would be for all three to embrace new voters adding energy and new ideas to the Democratic Party. I want to see them fight for leadership of this coalition instead of seeing it as merely a tool to get Obama elected. If its built succeessfully, the coalition is something any of them could use to forward progressive politics in the manner Reagan created his transformative era from a then unlikely grouping of varied interests coming together which allowed Republicans over 20 years of relative dominance in American politics.

    Last night we heard each candidate tell us why they deserve to be POTUS, but I only heard one say that building a working majority was an even more important part of getting the progressive agenda from the idea stage and making it a reality.

  • The mistake Dem partisans are making is the mistaken belief that strict partisanship will be as effective at building government as it was at dismantling government. The second you recognize that Dem goals are fundamentally different from Republican goals, it should be obvious that they require different strategies.

    Our system is biased towards the status quo, hence the super-majorities needed to over-come fillibusters, the veto power of the pres, the even larger majorities needed to override the veto, the incredibly difficult amendment process…

    Partisanship enhances the status quo bias. For a party that’s already achieved a multitude of its goal, partisanship is great. The GOP would love a partisan cage-match right now, because it turns the debate into a political game where fillibustering and obstruction are fair game.

    Sure, we all want Bush’s head on a stick. I’d love to personally beat the crap out of him myself. But that’s not a strategy that will get a progressive agenda anywhere.

    The question is, what do you view as more important. Getting revenge, or pushing your agenda? The two, IMO, are mutually exclusive.

  • It is tempting to lump all Republicans together (and I’m guilty at times), but there is a distinction between appealing to independent and moderate Republican voters and compromising with partisan Republican elected officials. I could be wrong, but I think that’s what Obama is getting at.

    He seems to believe that there are moderate Republicans dissatisfied with their more radical representatives, and I think there’s a case to be made for that. If Obama is elected, Republican obstructionism such as we’ve seen this year in Congress could become even more transparent, further isolating moderate Republicans from their reps. If he fails to expose partisan Republicans as being out of the mainstream, he’ll come across as ineffective. If he compromises too much with Congressional Republicans, he’ll be seen as a sell-out.

    It’s a gamble involving a leap of faith which has to be weighted against HRCs approach. If the past past Clinton administrations are any indication, hers would be one of compromise but within a general atmosphere of hyperpartisanship — the worst of both worlds.

  • I find it interesting that HRC supporters say we should “fight fight fight”. The Dems in Congress have proven to be weak for the most part and unable to counter the GOP. HRC’s fight fight fight mantra (which since she’s a DLC triangulator is a falsehood) is only going to make the GOP more unified (if that’s possible). BHO doesn’t evoke the same hatred among the GOP or their constituents (a reason indies/moderate Reps will vote for him but against Clinton) and it’s far more likely that he’ll get something accomplished.

    But let’s say that neither Obama or HRC would get much done as Prez because of GOP obstruction. I’d rather not have 4 more years of screaming and then a GOP Prez in 2012. I’d much rather have a grassroots builder who most American’s like, who can get people out to the polls to increase the Dem majority, and who can get reelected again in 2012.

  • geez, i dont know what Republican party you all have been watching the past 20 years, but its not the same one I’ve seen. They can be changed by “reaching out”? Really? -zeitgeist

    This is a common and persistent misconception of Obama’s strategy. He’s not reaching out to the Republican party. He’s reaching out to Republicans and Independents who are tired of the Republican party.

    He’s offering them another option of trying on the Democratic mantle. Hopefully some will like it and continue to support the Democratic party. Hillary’s baggage, like it or not, takes this option off of the table.

    It isn’t the Republican party that’s tired of partisan dickery; it’s the voters. As I said in a comment above, you yourself posted a link yesterday indicating that the race, because of the electoral college, would be closer than what so many people, like brian at comment 16, think.

    If Clinton supporters weren’t so happy to misconstrue his comments about Reagan, they’d realize that reaching out to other voters is exactly what Reagan did successfully.

    RacerX actually nailed all of this at 22. I guess we’re up to $0.04 cents now.

  • Yes RacerX, the whole “the GOP never compromises they’re very disciplined” critique is a total dodge. It’s pretty obvious Obama isn’t talking about “independent” Senators when he’s talking about reaching out; he’s talking about voters. So why assume he isn’t talking about voters when he adds, “…and even some Republicans”? It’s pretty obvious there are host of moderate Repubs and moderate Evangelicals who are totally dissatisfied with there leaders, and are looking for someone who will speak to them and respect them and affirm their values, regardless of policy proposals.

    Another thing some Dems don’t seem to understand. McCain has strong support from Indies who disapprove of the Iraq war. Crazy, right? But voters like that are the norm.

    Politics isn’t some science experiment where the parties go up on stage, offer differing hypothesis, test each, and one is declared a winner. And it’s not a philosophical challenge, where two arguments are offered, and the one that is deductively valid and sound wins, and the one that is fallacious loses. Politics is about persuasion, and if the goal is to persuade as many people as possible to agree with you, starting out by telling them you’re ready to fight them…well, you’re not gonna change many minds. All you do is drive moderate GOPers right back to their party and help your opponents consolidate their base.

  • Well-put at #13, HateTheGame (and, by the way, that would be Ms. Composer, not Mr.) Aside from the issues, which obviously concern all of us here, I think a lot of Americans are sick of, as you put it, being disgraced . . . in addition to being sick of the Bushes and the Clintons. Another reason I am supporting Obama over Hillary is, I detest nepotism. Nepotism gave us the current embarrassment-in-chief. No more! (I continually attempt to argue to my 60-year-old mother that voting for Hillary is actually very antifeminist– do we really want our first female president to be a former first lady, for whom many– dare I say, most– Americans will be voting simply to establish a shadow presidency for her husband? What are we dealing with here, George and Lurleen Wallace? But, I digress). But, yes, I definitely see your point about a president not mortifying us through his handling of affairs, be they personal (Bill) or of state (Georgie).

    And, Brian at #16, I agree with your assessment of likely election results, a projection that is, no doubt, a motivating factor in the red-state Democrats’ endorsements of Obama. (On a slightly humorous note . . . Obama had better get the nomination . . . because, if Hillary does, who could she pick for VP? Everybody from the swing states has endorsed Obama!) I’m sure that our down-ballot candidates who are hoping to unseat Republican incumbents are praying every day for an Obama victory. He has coattails that could solidify a progressive majority.

  • What Obama doesn’t understand is that when you put your word out about there being a Social Security “crisis” and how Reagan brought back “entrepreneurship” to the land, you can’t just casually take it back as mere rhetoric. It matters, and Obama ought to be more careful about his choice of words.

  • Obama is not reaching out to the left or to the right and they better get used to that. He’s reaching over and around them and speaking directly to the people they are supposed to serve.

    And he’s counting on people believing in him to do what he says, to make the career politicians live up to what he means for them to do. And if they don’t, he will use his position as president (if elected) as leverage to make them bring us all up, not drag us all down (like a certain Dances with Swords Sitting President).

    I like Obama’s style. I like his policies. I like his agenda. I like the fact that he’s not taking shit from the Hillary/ Bill duo. His ears are a bit to big to be Romney sexy but he’s a nice looking man if comes down to that.

    The question isn’t “Is White America Ready for a Black President” the question should be, “Is White America Ready to Stop Playing Games and Have a President Who Makes Sense”.

  • zeitgeist: “this party is disciplined, dirty, and evil. they have shown a willingness to break any law, a greed that cannot be sated, and there is no tactic too low.”

    As RacerX and doubtful said, there’s a distinction between the dirty, evil Republican Party and the voters who pull the lever for the GOP for lack of a persuasive alternative. Obama’s goal appears to be to convince enough of them that the GOP has ben dirty & evil and that they’d be better off with him.

    It may be science fiction, but it sounds nice.

  • I haven’t read all the comments so excuse me if this is repetitive but Obama’s statements strike me as nothing but egotistical.
    Hillary’s strategy may or many not be succesful but she certainly can implement it. Obama’s strategy only works if he truly can be some overwhelming figure that can transform and inspire not only democrats but a large portion of everybody else. But where has he shown such abilities? Yes he had a few legislative victories in Illinois and on ethics- but they really weren’t transformational moments and he is not succeeding on inspiring even the majority of democrats in this primary season so far.
    Its also difficult to be the leader of a movement when you are building that movement from scratch.
    He only has four years to be the president until the next election.
    Reagan was the leader of a conservative movement for years before he won the presidency- so he could start pushing his agenda from day one with other people because he had already solidified his base.
    Obama can’t do this.

    So before we get into a theoritical argument over what strategy works best – don’t you have to first show that Obama really could implement it?

  • David W.
    Can I get a site on that “entrepreneurship” quote? I haven’t heard it before and I am starting to wonder just how wildly the Clinton machine is going to swing the Reagan thing through intentionally misconstruing his words.

    Other than that, I agree with RacerX, HatetheGame, etc. Live in a red state for a while and you realize just how many Republicans are dying to jump ship. Then you realize how few of those would be willing to vote for Hillary ever, and how many of them are dying for a chance to vote for Obama. Their policy proposals aren’t that different. But the way they sell them is, and that makes a big huge difference.

  • That’s the problem with the Clintons; they are so reflexively reviled by the right, the mere existence of Hillary is a call to arms for the GOP. Obama is someone who– dare I say it– can make progressivism popular. I understood right away what he was getting at last week in that quotation about Reagan; he aspires to be the Reagan of the left…

    Just like Republicans “reflexively” have Hillary, black folks “reflexively” hate Reagan.

    In my hometown (Cincinnati) there’s a highway called Ronald Reagan Cross County Hwy, that, ironically, divides the North and South parts of the City.

    Democrats, progressives and black folks call it Cross County Hwy; republicans and conservatives call it Ronald Reagan Hwy. And as sure as people knowing which high school you went to around here means they pretty much know your family background, economic status and which side of town you’re from – what you call the highway shows which side of the political line you’re on.

    Obama invoking the name of Reagan for ANY reason is seen as sharp pandering to the right by any self respecting Democract, progressive but especially by black people. I heard someone screaming about it on the Tom Joiner Morning Show as I was driving to work.

    And that’s the problem black people will have with Obama. His message of ‘Hope and Change” cannot be seen as disintegrating to a Rodney King whine of “Can’t We all Just Get Along”.

    Black folks have been “Getting Along” and “Barely Getting By” for too long and that usually means taking a step behind and to the left of white folks. We want and need a president who will fight for the equality of all people, but will recognize that black folks still aren’t equal to begin with. Evoking Reagan is a misstep in that direction but a fixable one. Black folks aren’t about to hear anything decent said about President “Ketchup is Vegetable” or “Trickle Down” Economics ( and yeah we know that supply-side economics is the same bullshit – don’t fall for the okey-doke.)

  • On January 22nd, 2008 at 10:16 am, HateTheGame said:

    That’s the whole issue, you’re not going to get that. Granted, I’d love to see Bush, Cheney, and the lot of ‘em locked up for war crimes. Let’s come back to reality. The President’s job is to help the American people.

    I don’t care about Bush, Cheney etc war crimes (as entertaining as that would be). I want someone who will go in and purge the incompetent and corrupt Bushies from every corner of the Gov’t and bureaucracy. Someone who will push through laws UNDOING the crap that has passed in the last eight years. Someone who will say what happened in the last eight years was bad for the American people and the only way we can help the American people is to undo the damage. This will require stepping on toes, twisting arms and breaking kneecaps. Reaching out to their broken bodies may be ok, but only after they are broken.

    So far we are getting Bush-lite. They promise not to be as bad. Raise the damn floor, for gawdsakes.

    If you’re suggesting we don’t need a “new deal” what’s the old deal that will give you the revenge you want and at what cost?
    This ain’t about revenge (though I will accept it), this is about saving a sinking ship. I’d settle for someone who could bring the standards up to the Clinton era, which were pretty low (not for nothing did we refer to Bill Clinton as the best republican president since Nixon).

    We can go back to 1858 when members of congress were coming into the capitol building with guns, that’ll solve a lot…
    Well, I DO live in Alabama;>

  • Barack:
    And what I mean by that is a working majority that could push through the kinds of bold initiatives that all of us have proposed.

    Naw Barack…
    Tenacious Hillary is going to bulldog her health care plan through.
    Probably in her first 100 days. Just like the LBJ days of yore. It takes an arm-twistin’ President!
    (Not even a Congress!)

    Here is a reality test for the reality-based community:

    Raise your left hand if you think Hillary’s National Health Care plan will ever be enacted.
    If your hand is up you are a certifiable loon.
    It ain’t-gonna-happen. It is pure fairy tale. I guarantee it.

    The only chance anyone’s plan has is with a broad working coalition.
    Barack is right to bring this to the table.
    He needs to hammer the point.
    Even better:
    Tie it to Clinton’s historical loss of Congress in 1994.
    Warn that this will likely happen again.
    Hammer and hammer and hammer that conflation.
    It really is a winning meme.

  • socratic_me, here’s the quote of what Obama said via Paul Krugman:

    “I think Ronald Reagan changed the trajectory of America in a way that Richard Nixon did not and in a way that Bill Clinton did not. He put us on a fundamentally different path because the country was ready for it. I think they felt like with all the excesses of the 1960s and 1970s and government had grown and grown but there wasn’t much sense of accountability in terms of how it was operating. I think people, he just tapped into what people were already feeling, which was we want clarity we want optimism, we want a return to that sense of dynamism and entrepreneurship that had been missing.”

    The “excesses of the 1960s and 1970s” is rather insulting too.

  • Count me as someone who is very happy to have to choose between capable and talented candidates like Hillary and Obama (and, I wish, Edwards). Count me also as someone who is very, very, very concerned about the impacts of baseless (he’s a Muslim plant. Oh, and a drug dealer.) and bigoted (Oh my, he really is a black man, isn’t he!) attacks that are being and will increasingly be made against Obama. Too many Americans are very susceptible to this kind of crap.

    I have no doubt that Hillary’s negatives (some earned, many not) are a problem, but Obama’s negatives will certainly climb as the onslaught accelerates.

    My dream right now is that all of the mud slinging that goes on now among the fold (as in the above comments) would simply stop, and instead focus on policy substance and governance style.

    Somebody above said Hillary can’t work with repubs like Obama can, that she’ll just try to ram everything through like she did the health care plan. First, both Hillary and Obama, based on the record, are quite competent at working across the aisle. She has a record of working well with repubs in the Senate, and many repubs started commenting very early on that she wasn’t the demon they had been told she was – she was actually quite able and good to work with.

    As for trying to ram the Clinton health care proposal through in the 90s, it is revisionist to pretend that what happened wasn’t an effort to work quietly with all of the contestants (insurance companies, pharma, repubs, etc) to cobble something together that could pass, and to forget that those contestants responded by destroying any possibility of a plan because that would give the Dems a win (Gingrich and crowd) or cost them some dollars (the “health care” industry).

    The repubs are pretty clear that they will do everything they can, once again, to keep the Dems from getting any kind of universal health coverage passed because, on a strategic level, that would demonstrate in a very concrete way that government can work for the public good and cement a Dem majority for a generation. They simply can’t allow it to pass.

    So, which candidate is better equiped to fight against entrenched opposition to any Dem initiatives. The reThugs and their media machine simply aren’t going to change their nature. They will have to be beaten.

  • Really behind this morning, but wanted to weigh in on things –

    I watched a replay of the debate this morning on C-SPAN, and found it very interesting on a number of levels, but let’s look at the Obama message/strategy.

    I keep hearing Obama say that he is the transformative candidate, that he is the one who can bring about the change we need, but when I look at his record, I’m just not feelin’ it. If he is going to self-assess as the candidate of change, I think it’s incumbent upon him to make sure that his resume supports that assessment.

    When I hear him responding to the other candidates, I am not impressed – and it may be that being engaged with others in a setting where he has to account for his words and his actions just doesn’t translate from the stirring rhetoric we hear in speeches, when he is in total control of what is said. He is less fast on his feet than I would expect from hearing his speeches, and seems to spend a lot of time explaining what his words and statements meant. Is this a case of him being so inside his own head, and so intent on his message, that he hasn’t spent the time he should have considering how those words would be received? Or is it something else? Because I think that when there is that much pushback on something like the Reagan comments, he needs to consider that he was not effective in getting his message across.

    Unless…the message he was delivering was not meant for Democratic ears, but for a conservative editorial board that he expected would respond well to the invocation of Reagan’s name. In that case, I find it troubling that in this day and age, he didn’t expect to have to explain to one audience what his words to another audience meant – you know, kind of like Mike Huckabee explaining to Tim Russert that what he said to the Baptist Convention about taking the nation back for Christ was not the message he would give the rest of us. I find that sort of thing disingenuous and a little tone-deaf.

    I get that no candidate from either party can win on just the votes from theor respective parties, that we – and they – will need the votes of independents and even Republicans, if we are to put a Democrat in the White House. But, I think there’s something to be said for running on positions that are right on a human level, making the case for those positions, and encouraging people to join you – as opposed to being so concerned with what those independents and Republicans want, and shaping your message and your agenda to get their votes.

    Voters are reportedly registering in record numbers, and so far, those numbers are bearing themselves out in record turnouts on the Democratic side; maybe there’s something I’m missing, but I don’t think these people are registering as Democrats because they want to vote Republican.

    Both Clinton and Obama stretched and distorted the truth last night – but this is what happens when it isn’t clear what your words mean, and you are no longer in control of what people decide to think they mean. Obama has experienced with his Reagan comments what Clinton experienced with her LBJ comments.

    John Edwards rocked – he looked and sounded like the adult in a room with two bickering siblings.

  • ROTFLMLiberalAO said (#38): “Even better: Tie it to Clinton’s historical loss of Congress in 1994. Warn that this will likely happen again.”

    In large part that happened because Clinton raised taxes, and the reThugs and their media echos hammered him for it across the nation. “He’s taking money out of your pocket.” & Reagan’s essential contribution to public discourse: “No new taxes.”

    Of course, that tax hike was good public policy, and made an important contribution to the budget surplus at the end of his term. Unfortunately, the reward for forcing the right thing was losing Congress.

  • Grumpy:
    What alternative is that? Do you mean like in Tennessee where you had a choice between Bob Corker and Harold Ford Jr.? Also, what exactly is a Ray-gun Democrat? I have never seen anyone define that term. Are those the Democrats in the South that fled when LBJ signed the Civil Rights Act into law?

  • wvng:
    How much did Clinton build up the party? Did he help any candidates out? Did they explain why they raised taxes? I will vote for Hillary in the general if she is the nominee but lets not pretend that the Clinton’s care about anything other than themselves.

  • Martin,

    I know what you’re driving at. One part of me totally agrees with you, but I can’t fight the feeling that fighting slash and burn with more slash and burn is the solution. To simply blame everything on the GOP is a bit of a stretch. We wouldn’t be in Iraq without a lot of complicit Dems. Everybody whines about the Patriot Act now, but at the time… and Katrina was an epic cluster%#$ at both the state and federal levels.

    I don’t want a wasteful government or one that tries to wipe everyone’s nose but at this point I’d accept them blowing all of our money on something to do with healthcare as opposed to starting useless wars and giving lobbists more cash to play with. If they’re going to waste my money (which they are, no Republican has ever shrunk the federal government, and no Democrat has “fixed” poverty) at least let it be something that has some tangible benefit SOMEWHERE.

  • The Republicans are already figuring this thing out – and they are coalescing around McCain as the “consensus” candidate who has appeal accross party lines.

    The Clintons’ are counting on using Rove’s 50+1 math strategy since Hillary will never be a consensus condidate.

    Go ask any republican you know, “in the general, would you vote for McCain Obama or Clinton?” How many do you think are going to vote for Hillary?

    I have no doubt Bill Clinton will successfully bully the party establishment into nominating Hillary, only to lose the white house to McCain in the General.

    Barak Obama is attempting to force us to think outside of our narrow political interests, and gawd is he pushing against the entrenched status quo. I see it here, I see it at KOS and HuffPo.

    Talk about depressing.

  • #44 Joe Klein’s conscience (btw, your name is of course an oxymoron). “Did they explain why they raised taxes?”

    Of course he did. One of Clinton’s strongest suits was always explaining why he was doing what he was doing, in concrete ways that would impact real people. I am constantly amazed when I hear him speak on policy how well he lays out precisely why he did what he did, and what effects he hoped to achieve. As much as he was (and is) capable of dissembling about personal matters, I’ve always found him to be remarkably clear and open about policy objectives (as opposed to Bushies where actual policy objectives are always the opposite of what they say). And I have no doubt that President Clinton’s overriding goal in everything he did (and continues to do) was to provide more opportinuties to people. To raise people up. He is also clear in saying that not everything worked out the way he hoped (see NAFTA) but reminding listeners that developing the best policy is a process that includes revisions.

    As for explaining taxes, he did, but it was kinda tough when America had been the recipients of Pavlovian conditioning via Reagan’s “No new taxes.” chant for a decade. That conditioning is sadly still in effect.

  • I think Obama is playing to the middle. I think he (correctly) recognizes that Hillary is such a polarizing figure, even if she COULD win in November, she’ll never be able to get a working majority.

    If Obama wins in November, he could bring moderate republicans (such as myself) over to his side long enough to get something done. If Hillary is Prez next January, it will be a war-footing in Congress until she’s gone.

  • If – if November’s election sees a dramatic shift to the Democratic side in both the White House and Congress, Hillary will be able to be as partisan as she wants to be. But given how many Republicans are leaving Congress, we may see a very different brand of Republican in both houses and then Obama’s approach may get back to the days when people could agree to disagree but wouldn’t pull the crap of our current brand of GOPer. Whatever the solution, we have to get away from the hamstrung Congressional majority that we’ve had since 2006. Not getting anything done just won’t do in the years ahead.

  • does anyone besides myself think that Obama is believing too much of his own hype? Apparently He’s the transformative figure, He’s the one who’s going to bring love and understanding to politics, He’s the one who will make everyone want to go along with a progressive agenda. Does this sound like a messiah complex? Creepy

  • Newsflash for Obama supporters… The greatest fairy tale is that Obama could ever overcome the entrenched political support and media attention given to a Hillary/Bill tag team. You look at South Carolina and say, Obama will win, and maybe he’ll win big, but the only hope he has on Feb. 5 is if that win translates into enormous, nation-wide media attention.

    The Clintons are well ahead of Obama on that front. They are going to flood the airwaves with Bill Clinton, hoping that all those undecided democratic voters will embrace what they know, rather than what could be. After S.C. Obama will spend all his time refuting wild accusations, which will be the first and only impression he makes on voters in other primary states. If, by some magical set of circumstances, Obama wins enough delegates to compete at the convention, we’ll see how many superdelegates owe their political careers to the Clintons’ largesse. And, perhaps we’ll see how many lawyers the Clintons will hire to force the DNC to recognize Hillary’s win in Michigan (there was a reason she was still on the ballot).

    The only thing democratic about this process is that it coincidentally involves a group of wealthy and influential citizens that have formed an association called the Democratic Political Party. We should all sit back and admire Obama’s courage, but if you’re gunning for a spot in Hillary’s cabinet (as I’m sure all you casual blog posters are) I would start proclaiming Hillary love, because I hear that her vindicative streak lasts almost as long as Rudy Giuliani’s.

  • It does not sound like a messiah complex after the win in Iowa (an all-white, middle-America swing state). Nor does it sound like a messiah complex after all the endorsements of the red-state and purple-state Dems like Kent Conrad, Ben Nelson, Claire McCaskill, Jim Doyle, and Tim Johnson. Those who actually live in red states, and know how voters react in those states, understand the polarizing nature of Hillary’s candidacy, and know that it will hurt us down-ballot. Obama, by contrast, DOES inspire voters, and, by being at the top of the ticket, can help elect down-ballot candidates, thus solidifying our majorities in the House and Senate. I think everyone here is looking forward to the prospect of a Lieber-proof senate. Well, if we nominate Obama, it can happen this year. Nominate Hillary, and we risk keeping very slim majorities and having McCain veto progressive legislation just as Bush has done.

    (To play devil’s advocate to my own argument . . . perhaps it is to our long-term benefit if we nominate Hillary and lose. Whoever gets elected this time runs a high risk of being a one-term president, due to the dismal economic trends. With that being the case, perhaps it is best to get the Clintons out of the way so we never have to deal with them hindering our party again, and let Obama clobber McCain in 2012. But, again, I’m just playing devil’s advocate).

  • does anyone besides myself think that Obama is believing too much of his own hype? -g8grl

    I’m more inclined to believe that reactionary supporters of other candidates are playing up the ‘messiah complex’ in blog comments.

    Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that Obama believes himself to be a political messiah?

  • Caped Composer, I’m sympathetic to that “let the Republicans clean up their own mess and get rid of the odious Clintons in the deal” line of thinking. Unfortunately, while that’s probably okay personally for many (most?) upper middle class liberal types, it doesn’t serve the country very well. Any Republican successor to Bush, even McCain whom I don’t find personally disgusting, will ensure that the Supreme Court tilts far right for the next 20-30 years. They’ll staff the executive branch with ideologues and hacks–almost certainly not as bad as the Loyal Bushies, but plenty bad enough for anyone who wants honest, competent, effective governance. (Again, even McCain is the sort of guy who will look to placate restive factions within his coalition by giving them, say, the Department of Commerce.)

    The country really can’t afford four more years of Republicans, but unfortunately if the Clintons continue to put their dynastic prerogatives ahead of the national interest that’s exactly what we’re heading for. And who knows what the political landscape will even look like in 2012? Reagan took office in a time of economic downturn too, was pummeled for the first two years of his term, and had the good fortune to run for re-election just as the arrow was pointing up.

  • Braden,

    The greatest fairy tale is that Obama could ever overcome the entrenched political support and media attention given to a Hillary/Bill tag team. -Braden

    Are you arguing that Obama isn’t getting as much media attention as Hillary? When was the last time you saw either of them mentioned on the news independently. Their coverage is joined at the hip. Edwards is the one who isn’t covered by the media. Neither Obama or Clinton are lacking money.

    They are going to flood the airwaves with Bill Clinton… -Braden

    You think that Bill Clinton will help her campaign, but I disagree. His attitude of late has been cantankerous and angry. Not the smooth, easy talker we knew in years past. His presence also guarantees no support from moderate Republicans for Hillary.

    The only thing democratic about this process is that it coincidentally involves a group of wealthy and influential citizens that have formed an association called the Democratic Political Party. -Braden

    Well, this isn’t a national election, and though I wish there were more strict regulations for primary processes which must be agreed upon to form a national party, they don’t exist now, and it’s up to each party to determine how they pick their candidate.

    Just be happy it’s not a three-legged sack race.

  • TCC, that could be the likely scenario in November. Far too much of the “reaching out” done by the Clintons and their “enablers” over the past several weeks has been founded on a “Sith” philosophy of “either you’re with us, or you’re our enemy.” People who are targeted like tend to have long memories, and the general election is less than 10 months away.

    I’m not seeing any Republicans talking about bolting their party to support Clinton; neither am I seeing even reasonably-large swaths of the Indie vote going her way—and that’s a chunk of the electorate that’s bigger right now that either one of the mainstream parties. In some areas, Indies probably outnumber Dems and GOPers combined.

    Then, added to that, there are Dems who themselves will not support her in the general. If the message that the HillBots want to promote is “You’re not A REAL DEMOCRAT unless you vote for HRC,” then I think we’ll be seeing a lot of Dems tossing that “D” into the trash heap, and walking away.

    Will there be those who think it’s cute to yell crap like “Don’t let the door hit you in the a** on the way out?” Yep—and then they’ll get to share “permanent fringe status” with the GOP, as more and more people come to the conclusion that their country is more important than a mere political party. As the dominant national parties further lose their strong-armed power over the election process, you might even see a lot more states go to open primaries—maybe even all of them—because the majority of registered voters will have rejected “the mantra of the donkey and the elephant….”

  • The results of a three-legged sack race might, in fact, be more democratic. If you re-ran the sack race over and over again there’s probably at least a 30 percent chance that someone else would win. In this primary, I suggest that the chance of a candidate other than Hillary winning is close to 3 percent. I guess it all depends on how much influence being the White House for 8 years gives a candidate. If you say “not much” I’m afraid your naivety will force me to suggest relocation to country full of the politically naive (Canada).

  • Zeitgeist said – remember that Michelle is an attorney at Sidley & Austin

    Zeitgeist, you need to get your facts straight. She was an associate at Sidley & Austin after she graduated law school. For the last 5+ years she has been working at the University of Chicago Hospitals.

    She then worked for the University of Chicago Hospitals beginning in 2002, first as executive director for community affairs and, beginning May, 2005, as Vice President for Community and External Affairs at the University of Chicago Hospitals.

    I believe everyone here is misconstruing Obama’s message. He is reaching out to independent and Republican voters in order to build a coalition of Americans to push forth his agenda. Once in Washington, he will use that coalition to fight the Republican politicians (who will be negligible in their ability to affect policy anwyay, since they will be losing seats in both the House and Senate).

    Vote Obama or face Hillary “more of the same” Clinton’s one year and out Presidency.

  • Dajafi, as I stated inside the parentheses, I was only playing devil’s advocate. The economy is even affecting the upper-middle-class– the only group it is not affecting is the super-rich– so, basically, it affects everyone. Therefore, I definitely do not want to see four more years of Republican rule. (I guess I’ve just gotten into the habit of playing devil’s advocate in every argument, since I’m engaged to a lawyer!) I share your concern that the dynastic narcissism of the Clintons is no good for the party, and, by extension, the country.

    Good point about Reagan starting out in an economic downturn– I guess I didn’t realize that; I was born in 1979, so I obviously was not tuned in at the time! But, you beat my devil’s advocate argument. I guess there is no silver lining in this . . . Obama has to get that nomination!!!!

  • Oh, and Braden . . . as for your comment about Canada being a country full of the politically naive . . . if naivete means abolishing the death penalty, legalizing gay marriage, providing health care to all citizens, and condemning the U.S. government’s use of torture, then call me naive, and proudly so!

  • Here’s a thought: I have five Republican friends (I know that sounds strange and counter-intuitive, but it’s true), who are all what I call “real” conservatives (as opposed to movement conservatives). We all know where each other stands on issues (and are often surprised to remind ourselves the things we agree on, which we do), and we don’t go try to propagandize each other, since both sides know that would not work and would be counterproductive to the friendships.

    Thus, I have been pleasantly surprised to have all five voluntarily tell me individually how much they like Obama, and when they list their reasons they are mostly the reasons I like Obama.

    Four of them don’t know my atittude about the Clintons, but it turns out they share them, and for many similar reasons having to do with the lack of character.

    Yes, this is entirely anecdotal, but I find it not coincidental that I would – out of the blue – hear things that confirm what Obama said: “But I also think that we’ve inspired people who had not previously voted before, and that’s what the Democratic Party has to do.”

  • On January 22nd, 2008 at 11:45 am, HateTheGame said:

    I know what you’re driving at. One part of me totally agrees with you, but I can’t fight the feeling that fighting slash and burn with more slash and burn is the solution. To simply blame everything on the GOP is a bit of a stretch. We wouldn’t be in Iraq without a lot of complicit Dems. Everybody whines about the Patriot Act now, but at the time… and Katrina was an epic cluster%#$ at both the state and federal levels.

    You’re right. And the slash and burn has to apply to the Bush enablers. It really shouldn’t be too tough to get the Dems to vote to undo all most of the Bush crap. The went along with Bush just as they go along with HilBama. What we’ll need is a president who will make Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi stand up and start pushing through the agenda.

  • Dean, with his 50-states strategy, wanted to expand the Dem base. When Dean first started talking about the 50-states, the Dem establishment thought the idea was crazy; the establishment felt the siege mentality (defend and hold what you already have) would be more effective; let’s give the red states a pass, let’s whistle past Dixie. But, here I am, in VA, where Dean’s strategy has already paid off — instead of being solidly red, we are now purple and have a good chance to turn blue in November. The formerly crazy idea is now considered a wise and a good thing.

    But, when Obama tries to do the same thing — expand the base — it’s, suddenly, naive, impossible, and crazy. Helloooo?

  • The 50-state strategy wasn’t about selling off pieces of the Democratic platform in order to garner Republicans and independent votes, it was about establishing a network of organizational structures for the party in all 50 states – something that was nonexistent in more states than you would have thought possible.

    Democratic registration is way up, and if voter turnout is any indication, the base is motivated and eager to show the Republicans the door and take back their country. I am less inclined to think this is the Obama phenomenon as much as I think it is the result of 7 years under the Bush administration.

  • Anne, if “Democratic registration is way up,” that to me implies that a lot of new voters are coming of age and registering as Democrats, and/or a lot of voters who were previously Republican or independent are switching.

    With the first group, we have a pretty good and consistent sense of whom they prefer between Clinton and Obama. With the second, we’re talking about people who were politically of age when the Clintons ruled previously, and didn’t choose to identify as co-partisans with them.

    So exactly where do you get a sense of optimism that those new Democrats are likely to be as enthusiastic for The Restoration as we might wish them to be? I can credit that Bush’s serial foulups motivated them to register or re-register as Democrats… but Bush isn’t on the ballot. And Clinton, both as an enabler of Bush’s worst mistake and the embodiment of an Old Politics, isn’t very viable as a forward-looking agent of change.

  • on the other hand, dajafi, we know that turnout has been way up in the Democratic caucuses and primaries so far, yet Clinton has won two that were contested (NH and NV). in short, people have turned out in much greater numbers than years past driven both by Obama supporters and Clinton supporters.

    it is likely that some of that increased turnout overlaps (oh to have a Venn diagram tool on a blog!) with – and is made possible by – increased registrations. so there may be some reason to think some of the new registration is also Clinton support. People that weren’t “co-partisans” with Bill Clinton may now view his administration in a much more favorable light post Dubya. I know quite a few people who, given the luxury of peace and prosperity, thought Bill’s dalliances and cover-ups thereof were scandalous, tawdry, and deserving of (unsuccessful) impeachment. I don’t know one of them who still feels that way now that they have seen what high crimes and misdemeanors really look like. They feel silly for worrying about his personal life and wish that were all we had to worry about these days.

  • The Caped Composer: “On a policy level, there is barely a centimeter of daylight between the programs they propose. But I foresee Obama as someone who can implement his policies without incurring the wrath of the fire-breathing right by simply existing.”

    This, unfortunately, relies on the belief that the “fire-breathing right” is driven to excess only by the Clintons. Unfortunately, the 2000 and 2004 elections proved that the “fire-breathing right” will go batshit regardless of who the opposition is. All that matters is if they have a (D) after their name.

    Trust me on this, by November, a general election Obama will be as vilified as Clinton and his negatives will rise to her levels. And a President Obama will be treated to the same kind of attacks on his legitimacy as was Bill Clinton (he may even be impeached if the Republicans ever manage to regain control of the Congress). The media will never give him a break in their reporting and selfish Democratic leaders will undermine him at a moments notice if they can see some short-term benefit to themselves.

    Once again: the problems Democrats have faced in the last 20 years are not because of Clinton. It’s because of the Republicans.

  • Wake Up AMERICA!!! This IS IMPORTANT

    Food For Thought!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    1. Hiliary Clinton FAILED miserably to change Healthcare system during Bill’s term !! Her ideas and ideas and philosophy has not changed.;what makes things diff. today?
    2. She represents BIG GOV’T, more taxes. Check her voting record. She also as Big Govt does not vote to protect our individual rights; she is part of our elected officials who continually take rights away.
    3. She cannot and does not represent the middle class or the american workers! She has always been part of the privlegdged. Don’t buy her lies ; she just wants your vote. She will not represent us in the white house accordingly.
    4.She and Bill Clinton have a lot of secrets and baggage. Books and even videos are available…. check it out! They have a dark past ; they have others do their dirty work. People who have gotten in their way tend to disappear.
    5. Our current FINANCIAL situation is due to Bill Clintons executoive order which gave the financial institutions the right to increase interest rates on loans and credit cards into the double digits. We used to call these rates usery….
    6. Bill Clinton wrote more executive Orders than any other President in History!! That is right… none of these issues were ever reviewed by Congress or anyone. You can bet that if Hiliary wants to get something done, she will use the same tactiv and no one will have any say or oversite. DO you REALLY TRUST this woman?????? THINK!…
    7. Bill Clinton also opened wide and welcomed (pushed) to bring China into the United Nations. And we know how that is turning out!
    8. NAFTA….. Bill Clinton term…. and how has that turned out for American workers?
    9. If High Level excperienced Democrats including Edward Kennedy, can’t and DON”T TRUST her … how or why should we the people????? Careful, careful.
    10. Do you really think we want Pelosi and H. Clinton to be the woman we hold up for our young women to aspire to and use as role models??? As a woman, I want women to be seen positively and make progress to powerful positions; but I cannot get behind these two woman. Pelosi shoots from the hp with emotional response without the facts. Hiliary Clinton, well she could not even deliver a sincere apology for lying about being under gunfire during a visit.

    I offer this as food for thought…. we must be careful who we may elect for a presidernt.

    Do you really think that if Hiliary Clintons own party delegates do not trust her that she can actually make an improvement with our relationships with other countries?????????

    Just food for thought!
    Thank you
    Please pass along and discuss these issues….. its worth all of our time!

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