Unsafe in any election

Following up on a brief item from yesterday, it’s probably worth noting that a certain third party candidate is moving forward with plans for a fourth presidential campaign. (Apparently, the results of the first three weren’t quite clear enough.)

Ralph Nader, the consumer advocate who ran for president in 2000 and 2004, said he is considering another bid for the White House because he believes the current contenders aren’t standing up enough to corporate interests.

“Look at the major areas of injustice, deprivation and solutions that are not being addressed by the major candidates,” Nader, 73, said in a telephone interview today. Among other issues, he cited the need for a “practical timed withdrawal” from Iraq, programs to crack down on corporate fraud and a rearrangement of the U.S. tax system.

The Bloomberg report doesn’t mention it, but Nader was also a Green Party candidate in 1996, which would make this year his fourth campaign, not his third.

As for a certain presidential election that led to the Bush Nightmare, Nader still insists that Gore would have won easily in 2000 if only he had done everything Nader told him to do. “We had proposals that if Gore had picked up on, he would have landslided Bush,” Nader said.

The unpleasantness of 2000 notwithstanding, Nader appears anxious to run yet again — it’s just not quite clear why.

By his own admission, Nader doesn’t expect to win, he doesn’t expect to change the Democratic Party’s agenda, he doesn’t expect to appear in the debates, and he doesn’t even expect to make the ballot in every state. So, what exactly is the point here?

Asked about this a few months ago, Nader said, “What third parties can do is bring young people in, set standards on how to run a presidential election and keep the progressive agenda in front of the people. And maybe tweak a candidate here and there in the major parties.”

Is it me, or is this wildly unpersuasive? Major parties can and do bring young people into the process; in fact, Barack Obama seems to be pretty good at it. For that matter, Nader’s multiple efforts have never affected election standards, and his campaigns have generally done a poor job of promoting progressive ideas, instead focusing on his personal disdain for the two major parties.

Yes, I suppose Nader could certainly “tweak a candidate here and there in the major parties,” but isn’t that a pretty shallow reason to launch four consecutive presidential bids?

It’s possible that Nader, like Michael Bloomberg, is convinced that there’s a real hunger in the country for a third-party candidate, but there’s ample evidence to the contrary.

To be sure, it’s likely that Nader’s ability to influence election results has passed. After “peaking” in 2000, with 2.7% of the popular vote, Nader dropped to 0.38% in 2004 (which was even worse than the 0.7% he garnered in 1996). It stands to reason that he’ll fare no better in 2008.

But given all of this, why bother? Why would someone with an impressive legacy on behalf of consumer take additional steps to make his enemies happy, his allies resentful, and his reputation tarnished?

Didnt a bunch of his 2000 supporters try to draft Gore for 08? Better late than never, or something…..

  • Why bother? Take your pick: Ego, desire for attention, hoping to live down the ignominy of being (rightly) blamed for helping the 2000 election to be stolen. Whatever. Is Lyndon LaRouche running this time? Or is he dead yet?

  • Why would anyone run for President and be subjected to humiliation, ridicule and venom? Ego, and sometimes ego coupled with agenda.

  • Evidence points to Nader being a narcissistic egomaniac, why would he need anything other than a shallow reason?

  • The Bloomberg report doesn’t mention it, but Nader was also a Green Party candidate in 1996, which would make this year his fourth campaign, not his third.

    Fourth run for the office, at least. Did he actually even campaign in ’96? I somehow remember him just, like, agreeing to let the Greens put his name on the ballot if they felt like it.

    (He didn’t make it on the ballot in Ohio – I recall that. I wrote him in. The first and only vote I’ve ever made for Nader.)

  • Sorry Ralph, Ron Paul energized the crowd you’d appeal to. There’s no one left to write blog posts in all caps about sticking it to the man and shaking up the system. Aren’t there any unsafe cars that we need protection against? How about unsafe toys from China?

  • It’s awful to have to watch a guy who made his bones legitimately in the consumer protection world turn himself into at best a joke, or worse, an embarrasment. But our brains change as we age, and his still thinks it’s long ago. The smiling men in white coats should probably take him away for a well-earned retirement far away from a computer and a telephone.

  • Just to be clear, he is not running as a third PARTY candidate, he’s running as an independent. Third Parties at least have the pretense of a group of people backing the candidate (ie: The Libertarian Party). Nader ran as a Green Party candidate once (and pretty much tore that party apart). The only thing a third party candidate can really hope to do is garner enough votes to get the party on the ballot permanently and help build the party. An independent can achieve nothing, except maybe as a spoiler.
    I don’t have the animosity towards Nader that many have, I think there were far more reasons (cough cough Supreme Court) Gore lost [the electoral vote], but the idea that he is actually doing something by running is just silly

  • I used to have great respect for Nader, back when he took on the auto companies, but if he really wanted to gain influence he’d meet with the candidates and offer to endorse them or campaign for them in exchange for their pushing some of his issues. He probably wouldn’t be able to accomplish much if he did win (not that there is any chance of that) – a president without strong party support in the legislative branch has a hard time accomplishing objectives.

  • Ralph Nader was one of the greatest American heroes of the sixties and early seventies. He did more for consumer rights than anyone I can think of. It is sad that he convinced so many people in 2000, with the help of Michael Moore and Bill Maher, that there was no difference between Bush and Gore. At this point any vote he gets will probably be from someone who would rather write in Scooby Doo than vote for one of the main candidates. But I blame the people who were too g.d. lazy to see the difference between Bush and Gore for what happened in 2000.

  • It would be easier to have respect for Nader if he engaged in some political activism between election cycles, rather than just showing up to run for president. His consumer activism was decades ago, and he’s been riding it ever since.

  • Could Ralphie just drive his damn Corvair over a cliff and be done with it?

    Everything he says he wants to do – Iraq, corporations, tax, voter participation – Obama’s doing 100 times better than Ralphie ever would or could.

  • Ralph Nader isn’t just considering a bid for the presidency in 2008. He’s already on the ballot for the nomination of the Green party. At least in California.

  • I think ego covers it. And perhaps senility….Maybe he’ll fade away…He did cause the misery of the 2000 election as without him, there would not have been a recount for the Supremes to step into and award the presidency to the idiot.

  • what exactly is the point here?

    I remember last time he ran some Republicans paid him a lot of money (obviously in an effort to dilute the Democratic vote). Maybe Ralph needs the money. The kindest thing I can think of is that he intends to take their money again and then do nothing to hurt the Dems, not that he can at this point.

    I’m saddened that this guy, who should be an icon of our movement, has made himself into such an anathema by being the poster child for purity trolling.

  • Aren’t there any unsafe cars that we need protection against? How about unsafe toys from China?

    Isn’t that the truth. Where was our vaunted “consumer activist” when our kids were chewing on lead-painted toys from China?

    Nader hasn’t done anything worthwhile for years. He’s almost destroyed the Green Party in the US – or at the very least set them back decades.

    If he wants to contribute to the national dialogue he can damn well start doing something to contribute. Hell, if he wants to make a political impact why doesn’t he try running for the House? He’s got the name – in the right district at one point he could have been swept into office and he and Kucinich could have teamed up to do something tangible. Now he’s just the punchline to a national joke.

  • I’m telling you that if GM brings back the ’61 Corvair, Ralph is a shoe-in. Otherwise, not so much.

  • Sadly, Mr. Nader (out of respect for the individual I once knew) has become the pathetic epitome of Quixotic figures—both Quixote and the windmill. As such, his “heroic effort” becomes little more than a tool for the GOP’s desire to buy yet another election….

  • Please please please please please let this guy into the debates this time. I’d pay serious coin to watch Obama issue an epic takedown on Nader.

    How’s Ralph’s Halliburton stock doing these days? I’d assume pretty good. Take it and retire, sockpuppet.

  • Wow it’s like a sea of misconceptions and misinformation on this board! So I’ll just try to throw out some truths in response in no particular order…

    Nader is constantly working for political and social justice. He doesn’t take breaks between elections at all. You just don’t hear about it if you rely on the mainstream corporate media who isn’t interested in reporting on anything but how he could be a spoiler. We writes articles and books, he speaks out on the same vital issues he campaigns on, following 2004 he continued traveling across the country speaking about the need for immediate withdrawal and encouraging people to pressur Conyers to go forward with impeachment, he works with other activists and citizen groups to get their issues and solutions out there and acted on. Just spend some time googling and that should be clear enough.

    Ego? You can claim just about anything a person does is about ego, it’s a very convenient form of slander, but if ego is what has motivated Nader to fight for seatbelts, OSHA, environmental protection legislation, greater citizen involvement in government, voter rights, peace, etc. then we need more egomaniacs. I always thought though, that people with big egos didn’t take the risk of public condemnation over and over for little things like convictions as Nader does — they’d much rather bend to opinion polls to remain loved above all else.

    Obama has taken on Nader’s agenda? Are you kidding??? I don’t know where to begin…. check out votenader.org from 2004 and compare platforms. The campaign website is still up. You really think your candidate compares? Especially on corporate power? And Iraq? Obama won’t commit to getting out of Iraq — except at rallies in liberal towns, but then he remembers himself on national debates. Do you know your candidate at all or is it just that you have no clue about Nader’s convictions?

    Martin, though I would prefer a distinction made between third party candidates who are candidates of parties and independent candidates, I’ve seen the term ‘third party candidate’ widely used to encompass all candidates who are not of the Democratic or Republican parties. But then you may be right to point out Nader was not the Green candidate in 2004 (though whether he may be in 2008 is yet to be determined), because a ton of people assumed he was and never knew Cobb was actually the Greens candidate and Nader was running as an independent.

  • I know. Maybe he’s Jesus Christ, rising from the dead every four years.

    (Will I be struck dead for even thinking of such blasphemy?)

  • Nader still insists that Gore would have won easily in 2000 if only he had done everything Nader told him to do.

    Yeah, which is why Gore got 48% or so and Nader got 2%. Because Nader knows a lot better than Gore. yup. no ego issues there.

    although i do get a kick out of all of the snide comments about there being no difference between Bush and Gore on a site where daily lately I read that there is no difference between McCain and Clinton. Fool me once. . . we won’t get fooled again and all that.

  • There’s a huge difference between Clinton and McCain. That said, Clinton is no Gore, and McCain is no Bush.

  • Maybe Ralph is really a member of the vast right wing conspiracy looking to hijack the dems in every election. Just thinkin…

  • “#28 has been into a different kind of kool-aid it seems……”

    Although there may be some truth to what #28 says, I think it is fair to state that maybe we are all wrong thinking that there are only 2 different ‘realities’ in politics. There appears to be room for a few more.

  • Okay #28 – you tell us. What does Nader’s run bring to the table as far as accomplishing ANYTHING he claims to want to accomplish?

    He’s not building a third party (he nearly destroyed the third party that nominated him in 2000), he’s not going to win (he’s not – he doesn’t have the infrastructure in place to be able to win – the best he can do is shave votes off the margins), and he’s not going to bring enough to the table to force a change to either party’s platform.

    In short, even if is virtue is pure he will accomplish nothing positive for his agenda by running. And that’s time and effort that could be better spent elsewhere.

    (Hell, he coulda run in the Dem primary and tried to gather enough delegates to force a bit of his agenda into the party platform. That’s about the only way things get, you know, done in this country. You can hate the system all you want, but your choices are pretty mcuh to work within it or figure out a way to destroy it.)

  • Nader is 73? Cripes, he’s older than McCain, who in turn is giving dirt a run for it’s money. I kid, I kid.

  • ***Bri N comment 28***Thanks for the perspective. Additionally, people put things on Obama because they want to believe he stands for these things without ever checking how he really stands on those issues. For instance his response to the SOTU :

    “Each year, as we watch the State of the Union, we see half the chamber rise to applaud the President and half the chamber stay in their seats. We see half the country tune in to watch, but know that much of the country has stopped even listening. Imagine if next year was different. Imagine if next year, the entire nation had a president they could believe in. A president who rallied all Americans around a common purpose. That’s the kind of President we need in this country. And with your help in the coming days and weeks, that’s the kind of President I will be.”

    Questions from Melissa McEwan from Shakespeare’s Sister:
    1. Why will the Republican members of Congress rise to applaud you, and the conservative half of the nation tune in to support you, unless you pursue an agenda that appeals to them? How do you pursue an agenda that appeals to conservatives, but is also progressive? 2. What is the common purpose around which you envision the country rallying? (snip) 4….Do those of us on the progressive side of these issues have reason to worry that you will not be a vociferous advocate for any controversial or ideologically discordant issues? (snip) ……“Can you please assure me that, as both the Democratic candidate and as president, you would be more interested in pursuing a progressive agenda than the pipe dream of post-partisanship?”

    Seems all of the candidates are “generally speaking” with pretty rhetoric but I don’t hear much about how they are going to combat the powers that have come to be under Bush.
    btw…I believe the voters young and old are coming out in droves not because of any particular candidate but out of the necessity to stop what is happening to our nation. We see our democracy slipping away chunk by chunk and the planet dying and we are saying enough is enough and are going to do whatever we need to do to change direction.

    In the famous words of Rush Limbaugh, “Reagan is dead! His policies may live on but we are in the process of doing something about that as well!”
    Nader’s leadership is and has been much appreciated…but a presidential run is just a waste at this point.

  • Let’s make this real simple. Nader is a useless old man. He needs to go away and stop hurting us. Period.

  • As a progressive, I’m pretty disappointed with both of our current choices. Let’s face it, neither one is exactly a dream candidate for advancing progressive causes. So I think there is certainly a need here for a third voice. In fact, should Nader decide to run this year, I will vote for him.

    Oh wait, no I won’t. Because I’m not BATSHIT INSANE.

  • Is everyone in agreement that no one can run for president unless they are a Democrat or Republican?

  • It’s his perfect right to run, and it’s my perfect right to call Ralph Nader a weiner.

  • Actually Nader also ran briefly in 1992 (for both Republican and Democratic nominations) and was mentioned as a possible candidate in 1972. So actually this is his SIXTH run for president.

    Why I would NEVER vote for him (even if he could win):

    1) He’s not qualified. Since he has never even been a city council member he is definitely not qualified to be President.

    2) He’s only running because of his ego. If he really wants to get elected and change things he should start out as a mayor or city council member or legislator. By only running for president he shows that he is not serious about getting elected and that he is in it only for the glory and his ego.

    3) Goes with number 2: It’s easier attacking the establishment as an outsider. If he were to get elected he would have to work with others (he’s not known for working well with others) and he would have to make difficult decisions. That’s why he only runs for President.

    3) He’s anti-union, at least when it comes to his own organizations. He has repeatedly stopped his own employees from organizing.

    4) He is a multi millionare who owns stock in multi national corporations. All while he attacks big corporations. This includes Cisco which has extensive manufacturing ties to China.

    5) He is a big phony. While portraying himself to be a pauper he is a multi millionaire and he lives in his sister’s mansion in DC. He refuses to release his tax records even when other candidates do so. And of course he attacked Gore and Kerry for his financial holdings.

    6) His supporters treat him like a god. I don’t like people who have a cult of personality around them. I don’t believe anyone is perfect. Even people I admire. If you raise questions about Nader, you get attacked viciously by his supporters. He has become a Lyndon LaRouche. His supporters act like cult members.

    7) His supporters and his campaign are politically inept. If he really wanted to make a difference he could have campaigned on his ideas in places that are very progressive already. Or he could have campaigned in conservative states. Instead he chose to campaign in swing states. That way, his message would have gotten out, Al Gore (the center left candidate) would have won the presidency and the Republican/ conservative agenda would have been further hampered. Instead he attacked the candidate that was closer to his followers, and avoided attacking Bush, the candidate farthest from his followers. This is horrible stragedy unless you don’t care who wins.

    This also illustrates the futility of third parties in this country. Like it or not this country has a winner take all approach and that means that only a Republican or a Democrat can win the executive branch. This is not Germany where one votes twice — once for a person and once for a party. This is not a system where you can get into parliament with only 5% of the vote. In other countries third parties form coalitions with the bigger parties that they are close to in policy. Here, third parties just throw bombs at the folks they are closest to.

    This dooms their chances at real reform and allows the party least like them to gain power. It is complete political ineptitude to support third party candidates for the executive branch.

    http://www.realchange.org/nader.htm#money

    http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1200nader.htm

  • Let’s see…an unknown lawyer builds his reputation by attacking a car, the Corvair, as “unsafe” (though it was only one chapter in his book). The Corvair is the first economy car built in the US and opens the way for more compact cars by other manufacturers.

    From http://www.failuremag.com/arch_history_corvair.html
    Interestingly, 1966 would have been the last model year, had the Nader book not drawn so much negative publicity. Even the National Highway and Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) had opened an investigation into its handling. There was simply no way GM could halt the line without appearing to “cave in” to the charges, so production continued, albeit in limited numbers, through the ’67, ’68 and ’69 model years. Ironically, the NHTSA report, released three years after Corvair’s demise, would exonerate Chevrolet of all charges, concluding that the Corvair was no more prone to accidents and rollovers than any other comparable car of the period.

    Was the Corvair a failure? It’s a matter of perspective. General Motors produced nearly 1.8 million Corvairs over 10 model years. The Corvair pioneered such technological advances as turbo-charging, true four-wheel independent suspension and unit-body (or unibody) construction, and its independent suspension was adapted for later model Corvettes.

    Nader does what he does for Nader.

  • Nader offers a choice in a nation of false choices. Corporate power runs nearly everything, including most comments above. America deserves the government it gets. Nader runs, sheep complain.

  • Ralph Nader’s legacy encompasses the spectrum of his life long work, especially his presidential candidacies. He has started a presidential exploratory committee http://www.naderexplore08.com

    My political and civic identity was born through exposure to the candidate for whom I caucused for in Nevada, Congressman Dennis Kucinich.

    Not only was I going on a limb, scrambling to educate myself on his record, bio, the issues, his campaign style not to mention volunteering for a political campaign, calling radio shows, canvassing, going to a town conference, and attending a free speech rally where I was interviewed for a published newspaper article.

    Wooo!

    A lot to absorb and digest to say the least.

    Part of this process was owning my power as a citizen.

    I, after 31 years, affirm:

    * Politicians are public servants. They are elected to serve the public. We are the public. We are their Boss.

    * When does a Boss grovel at the feet of their employee?

    * A vote cast is duty. The highest level of civic participation in this democratic republic. The highest level of critical thinking is a mandatory prerequisite.

    * The media’s power lies within the scope of communicative channels of distribution. The more channels accessed produces the variety of information and opinion necessary to serve as background information. Independent research is equally necessary.

    Our future, the future of my three boys, everyone, everywhere is deeply affected by civic, social administration and control; in simpler terms, politics and government.

    If we are to honor our existence and our time on Earth than we must participate.

    Fight off all urges or coercion to be satisfied with the role of spectator.

    A long comment, I know.

    I strongly support Ralph Nader as an activist, and as a President candidate.

    The Democratic Party uses the Nader Myth to cover up the fact that Al Gore abandoned his supporters and all voters in Florida. Diebold delivered on it’s promise.

  • Nice herd mentality on this board. Giving a louder voice to the anti-corporate, anti-neoliberal message is a good thing, even coming from much-despised Nader. Aside from Kucinich (barred), Gravel, and a few Ron Paul ideas, he might be
    the only one telling the truth in this campaign. But go ahead and snipe and gripe
    and vote for Clinton or Obama to tinker at the edges of a rotten system that will continue to impose suffering on millions around the world. Then pat yourself on the back for being so progressive.

  • I would definitely like to see another candidate for President besides the poor choices we have now, but I’m not sure Mr. Nader is the one. I just checked his website votenader.org and found that the biggest issue hurting Americans at home, ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, is not even on his 12 Issues That Matter Most in 2008 list. Illegal imigration should be a number one Priority, right up there with the Iraq war. I am looking for an anti-amnesty Presidential candidate, he’d get my vote!

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