Clinton shifts campaign managers — the beginning of trouble or the end?

There’s an obvious response to charges that Hillary Clinton’s campaign is in trouble, as evidenced by the decision to replace campaign manager Patti Solis Doyle with another longtime aide, Maggie Williams — Clinton is hardly the first to make this kind of change.

Last summer, with his campaign faltering badly, John McCain replaced more of his senior staff, but he went on to benefit from the reorganization and is now the presumptive GOP nominee. Four years ago, not long before the Iowa caucuses, John Kerry changed campaign managers, and went on to win the Democratic nomination. In the spring of 2003, Howard Dean dropped his first campaign manager to hire Joe Trippi, who went on to help propel Dean into the top tier of Democratic candidates.

The point is, plenty of campaigns have made these kinds of changes, and gone on to do very well. It need not be seen as a sign of disaster. There is, however, one big difference — major staffing changes by McCain, Kerry, and Dean all came very early on in the nominating process. They were struggling before voters were weighing in and while there was still plenty of time to correct flaws in the campaign’s strategy.

The Clinton campaign’s switch, then, is qualitatively different — swapping campaign managers after 32 states have already hosted primaries or caucuses is harder to dismiss.

At the same time, [Solis Doyle] suffered a setback over money, and though in recent days the campaign has boasted of a $10 million month and many new donors, it never built the online donor base that Ms. Doyle had promised. Nor did it adapt to Mr. Obama’s message of inspiration as his campaign grew in strength, prolonging the battle long past the point when Mrs. Clinton was expected by her strategists to have clinched the nomination.

The replacement of Ms. Doyle was in part a signal to donors and other supporters that the campaign was regrouping and was poised to right itself, even as Mrs. Clinton faces uncertain prospects Tuesday in contests in Virginia, Maryland and the District of Columbia.

It seems Solis Doyle bought into the notion that the contest would be effectively over on Feb. 5, and had built a campaign strategy around this assumption. It proved to be a mistake.

Apparently, there was quite a bit of drama behind the scenes.

I found this, for example, quite surprising.

Initially, Clinton’s former White House chief of staff, Maggie Williams, was brought in to run the campaign even though Solis Doyle was still there. The result was confusion and awkwardness for the staff, who weren’t sure who was really in charge.

But even more problematic was the campaign’s money crunch. Over the last seven years, Clinton had raised $175 million for her reelection and her presidential campaign. But Solis Doyle didn’t tell Clinton that there was next to no cash on hand until after the New Hampshire primary.

“We were lying about money,” a source said. “The cash on hand was nothing.”

In turn, Clinton didn’t tell Solis Doyle that she was lending her own money to keep the campaign afloat. Solis Doyle found out third-hand. And when she asked Clinton about it, the senator told her she couldn’t understand how the campaign had gotten to such a point.

I’ve never seen the inner workings of the Clinton campaign up close, but I’ve always pictured an extremely efficient, professional operation, run by some of the most experienced Democratic staffers in the business. What I didn’t imagine was a campaign manager who didn’t tell the candidate they were running out of money, and a candidate who didn’t tell the campaign manager about a $5 million personal loan.

Also, one report suggested the campaign’s finances were just part of the problem.

One senior official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to speak freely about the campaign’s inner workings, said, “The dissatisfaction — to the extent there has been — has not been about money.” Asked what the source of dissatisfaction was, this adviser replied, “There is a sense that this is a fatiguing campaign and some new energy primarily was useful.”

It’s worth keeping in mind that it would probably be foolish to see a staffing change like this as tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Indeed, my hunch is Obama supporters might look at the Clinton staffing change as proof that Obama has the upper hand.

Clearly, the fact that a change like this was necessary proves that the Clinton campaign is not where it wants to be, but don’t underestimate it. This is a team that’s gone pretty far, and has had quite a bit of success, despite a flawed strategy and internal dysfunction. A fresh perspective and a renewed approach may very well give this campaign a boost.

According to this article it looks like some serious money management issues were present as well.

  • I don’t make much of staff changing while there are still alot of votes to be counted. Altough I don’t believe that this stradegy of brushing off all the caucuses states ws very smart. If Obama wins it will only be because of that approach. Whoever came up with that approach should have been gone along time ago. Had it not been for that approach Clinton would have won Iowa then NH and gone on to win. If you remember back in Sept or Oct there was talk of skipping Iowa and start in NH but then when it was leaked they changed approach and that was a mistake.

    One other thing that hurt Hillarys campaign was media driven from Iowa on when they crown Obama the messiah. So now it looks like we’ll be stuck with him. I guess 2012 can’t come soon enough now. This won’t be a cake walk for Obama because I don’t see any red state that he will win. It won’t be ARK, OK or TN or even AZ won’t even come close in the red state caucuses that he has won. So my guess is McCain will be the next president.

  • Jim, what makes you think that it would be easier for HRC to win the general? In fact, she does worse in the head-to-head polling vs. McCain than Obama.

  • The people are speaking, no they are shouting, and they want Obama.

    Obama has not had a losing night yet. He won Iowa big, tied new hampshire, won nevada, won south carolina, won super tuesday, won this saturday as well as sunday, and is poised to win tomorrow. Obama has a 986-924 lead in the delegate count, he is the choice of the people. And with a month to campaign in ohio, texas, pa, and with momentum on his side, it is highly doubtful that hillary can close the gap.

    Obama is the people’s choice.

    The only people still voting for hillary are those so in love with the democratic party’s establishment that they fail to embrace the most dynamic presidential candidate anybody under the age of 50 have ever seen.

    Also, Obama has the ability to work with both republicans and democrats to get the job done. Hillary starts with 50+% of the aisle standing against her. Why return to partisan politics like e had in the 90’s? Let us unite our country by electing Obama.

    Hillary has good reason to be scared. Her only hope lies in the Super Delegates. We must have faith that the system will work and that the Clinton Establishment machine will allow the will of the people to nominate our candidate.

    This was a great weekend for American politics. Obama emerged as the candidate the people desire.

  • Jim: With that analysis HRC can’t win either as there’s no doubt she’d do even worse in red states.

  • One other thing that hurt Hillarys campaign was media driven from Iowa on when they crown Obama the messiah. So now it looks like we’ll be stuck with him. I guess 2012 can’t come soon enough now.

    I keep hearing snide comments like this about how the media or Obama’s supporters are merely cultlike morons who are looking for a “messiah” to save them.

    You might want to watch this video of an actual Obama supporter and see how informed they really can be.

  • Jim: With that analysis HRC can’t win either as there’s no doubt she’d do even worse in red states.

    Agreed. This has to be the lamest argument put forth by the Clinton camp: “The states Obama has won in the primaries are largely swing states and red states!”

    Why exactly is that a bad thing? Does anyone seriously believe that the Democrats will take NY and CA and the other base blue states no matter which one is the nominee? Don’t we want the one who does better in the purple states?

    No, the Democrats aren’t going to take Idaho or Utah. But the guy who plays best in Missouri, Washington, and Colorado has a shot at those states at the outside, and will play better for moderates and independents in the swings across the country.

  • Exactly what has he done in the Senate he along with McCain have missed 2/3 rds of the votes while running around the country. I’m sorry but I see no chance of Obama being president in 09 that being said he may by chance win but nothing will get done unless the dems have 60 senators because there is no way that republicans are going to allow him to succeed. As for leaving Iraq not going to happen no matter who is president. So if anyone believes that think again. Its very hard to against military commanders advice.

    I may vote for him if FL gets represented at the convention otherwise I will just vote for local issues.

  • I would think that this was a necessary change, but too little too late. Looking back, I think HRC’s victory in Nevada was a Pyhrric or deceptive one at best. It reinforced the Clinton’s campaign view that Obama was a limited rival who would be out by the end of January without considering Obama’s oratory skills, organization and his demographics.

    What Obama’s done is apply 4th Gen warfare techniques into a leadership race. This signals the end of monolithic top down campaigning as Tom Cleaver has mentioned.

    To not totally knock Hils team, as they ran it they would have done well as late as 2004. It really is her bad luck that she ran at the same time as Obama.

  • Hillary narrowly beats obama in hard core democrat states like mass, ny, ca. But those narrow wins indicates that either party will satisfy our traditional meal ticket states.

    Obama wins HUGE in the red/purple states. He has the ability to bring new states into the blue in november, while retaining our hold on our traditional power states.

    Like I said, the only way that Hillary wins this thing is if she steals the nomination on the super delegate front. The will of the people is clearly with Barack.

  • The wheels are coming off. Obviously.

    When your head people lie to each other about the macroeconomics, you are DONE. There’s no telling what else they’ve been lying to each other about.

    Re #7: Krugman is human, and his coulumns, which are normally excellent, are suffering from a slight credibility problem. He takes Republican smears, tries to tie them to Obama supporters, and totally ignores the way the Clintons (Bill in particular) have repeatedly made demonstrably false statements about Obama.

  • Frank Rich diagrams some of the issues the Clintons are setting up for us to deal with. I sure hope he is wrong:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/opinion/10rich.html?em&ex=1202878800&en=e24742716b04417f&ei=5087

    The question now is how much more racial friction the Clinton campaign will gin up if its Hispanic support starts to erode in Texas, whose March 4 vote it sees as its latest firewall. Clearly it will stop at little. That’s why you now hear Clinton operatives talk ever more brazenly about trying to reverse party rulings so that they can hijack 366 ghost delegates from Florida and the other rogue primary, Michigan, where Mr. Obama wasn’t even on the ballot. So much for Mrs. Clinton’s assurance on New Hampshire Public Radio last fall that it didn’t matter if she alone kept her name on the Michigan ballot because the vote “is not going to count for anything.”

  • Is this what her “35 years of experience” have taught her about executive management? So much for “ready on day one”.

  • Well whatever else they may or may not accomplish, looks like they’ve grabbed some headlines away from those weekend caucus results. I doubt the timing of the announcement was an accident.

  • Jim: Its very hard to against military commanders advice

    Where have you been for the last 8 years? Bush has been ignoring (and firing/replacing) military advisors every time they get in the way of his Cheney’s desire to embroil the middle east oil reserves in total civil unrest.

    Why are you posting nonsense without facts or evidence? what trolling operation are you posting for?

  • Steve Benen Wrote:

    It’s worth keeping in mind that it would probably be foolish to see a staffing change like this as tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Indeed, my hunch is Obama supporters might look at the Clinton staffing change as proof that Obama has the upper hand.

    ~

    I think it’s fair to say that we do. And I would say more, and more clearly than you have.

    This entire topic is something I’ve been scratching my head over since Iowa. The Landslide victory in Maine actually told the whole story loud and clear. The campaign manager swap, the campaign out of cash and these stories leaking out are just the “Background” on that story.

    Hillary loses Maine in 20 point landslide. That’s the whole story. Let me explain.

    It’s now clear that they hand no campaign plans after Super Tuesday, even though in Iowa Mark Penn was saying stuff like, “Its all about the delegates”. Was this just bluster? Didn’t he know it was all about delegates? Now they have no cash and no plan, which means they have no campaign left to speak of.

    After South Carolina, Obama’s people started fanning out around the country. It’s clear they planned a national campaign from day one, probably since his announcement speech a year ago. Hillary presumed she would blast out of Iowa the winner and march herself into the white house. In fact, she though she wouldn’t even need to campaign in Iowa (remember that?). This turns to have been just a fantasy. Run of the mill over confidence and campaign incompetence.

    If you care to look closely, the marks of incompetence are all over Hillary’s campaign. It has been slipshod, messy even schizophrenic since the beginning. It has no message. And no message control, just look at Bill Clinton to understand what I mean.

    What is Hillary campaigning for? What are her core beliefs? I keep asking myself that question. And there are no answers forth coming from her campaign. The only thing I can say with confidence about Hillary is she is for woman’s rights, and Health Care. Beyond that… I got no idea. That is another mark of her campaign’s incompetence.

    From Iowa on, every message out of the Clinton Camp, has been playing catch up with Obama.

    Iowa: I am the Future Democratic Nominee
    NH: Ooops… now I’ve found my voice
    NV: Culinary union should not be allowed to vote
    SC: He only won because there are so many black people in SC.
    Lead up to Super Tuesday: Florida and Michigan should count!
    Super Tuesday: Obama is now the Establishment Candidate (LOL!).
    Somewhere along the Line: Hillary has even became the candidate for “Change”!
    Finally: We stopped Obama in California. ~ And then came Maine

    If you think I’m just saying this to be a jerk, look at the clarity of John Edwards campaign. Even though he never caught fire, he ran a very very good stump. Is there any doubt what he cares about?

    I’m not saying this because I want to pile onto Hillary’s unfortunate situation. Her campaign is going down in flames. The next month is going to be painful to watch. I just hope we don’t have to drag her screaming off the stage at the Democratic Convention, as she flails around trying to rip down the Obama Victory banners.

    Finally, before I log out, let me say, Obama has run a class act campaign. In fact it’s been better than that, probably the best I’ve ever seen. He took on the Clintons. And now it seems clear that he won. To have a campaign that can go national like this, with such ease and sophistication during a primary fight is just unbelievable. This isn’t even the general election for Christ’s sakes.

    Hillary on the other hand has been captain on a sinking ship. Pretty strange, since she claims to be the “Experience” candidate. If that where true, this never would have happened.

  • Jim,

    Your comment at 11 has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand and is not a response to any tangent discussion with another commenter. It looks more like it was designed to derail any discussion of Clinton’s staff changes and create conflict between supporters of different candidates.

  • Well whatever else they may or may not accomplish, looks like they’ve grabbed some headlines away from those weekend caucus results. -CalD

    I’m not sure I agree with that; most of the headlines I’m seeing indicate Hillary is changing her staff in reaction to losing. In my opinion, the timing makes this a little worse for her campaign. Smacks of desperation to do this immediately after a big loss.

  • Actually, I think the deck-chairs scenario is valid—but it needs to be established in a different context. Granted, rearranging those chairs does no good, once the iceberg’s been hit, but in the Clinton team’s case, they’ve sighted the iceberg, and have decided that moving the chairs around is a realy good way to change the course of a ship that’s too big and too fast for its too-small rudder….

  • Ed (#7):

    Thanks for the link. I read the article (you always post great info), and I was puzzled. As we’ve seen here over the past few weeks, it’s been the Clinton campaign that has seemed to dip into almost Rovian attacks on Obama (Republicans have the good ideas, you supported the war, etc.), not the Obama campaign. In fact, we talk here often of whether Obama can/will stay out of that style of campaigning. So I was surprised to see this:

    “I won’t try for fake evenhandedness here: most of the venom I see is coming from supporters of Mr. Obama, who want their hero or nobody.”

    Venom? Hero worship, maybe, but no more than for Kennedy, and I don’t make fun of that generation for being excited by government. I’ve not seen this “rabid Obama supporter” denigrating Hillary, who’s all Obama or nothing. The article was actually talking about Nixonian politics, of all things. How amazingly inept a comparison! Nixon was anti-charismatic, and was forced to continue the pre-TV, back-room politiking he knew because he couldn’t beat Kennedy’s charisma (ignoring the chance that maybe Nixon actually won but was robbed in Chicago).

    I’m pro-Obama, but more I’m pro-anythingbutmoreofthelyingGOPswine, which means I’m pro-Hillary if she gets tapped to run. What am I missing from the apparant attack pience on Obama’s supporters?

  • ED and eadie,

    That whole Kurgman article left a bitter taste in my mouth. The entire thing is a straw man hit piece on Obama supporters. Especially revolting was his comparison of Obama to Bush:

    I’m not the first to point out that the Obama campaign seems dangerously close to becoming a cult of personality. We’ve already had that from the Bush administration — remember Operation Flight Suit? We really don’t want to go there again.

    One thing this election cycle has taught me so far is that we have to question the motives and integrity of even the most reliably progressive voices, especially when they wear their agenda so boldly on their sleeve.

    “Why, then, is there so much venom out there?” Krugman asks. Well, I think he answered his own question in his baseless and one sided opinion. I wonder, does he read his own work?

    Opinion articles like ‘Hate Springs Eternal,’ are part the root of the problem.

  • eadie 23 and Ed 7. There has been plenty of name calling on both sides here and at other sites. From my perspective as one who likes both candidates and is now in the Obama camp, it appeared to me that the Obama criticisms have mostly been: “he’s not ready”, “he’s naive, you can’t beat the rethugs and govern on hope”, and to a much lesser extent “he’s a snakeoil salesman.” The criticisms against Clinton have more often (not universally) been tinged with CDS venom and “I’ll never vote for her I’ll vote for McCain first.”

    It would take some time, but someone with time could go back over the last few days and do a tabulation. I suspect it would support Krugman’s and Ed’s position.

    I’ll end by saying what I say in every post – we would be lucky to have either of them as President, and both are vastly superior to any of the reThugs.

  • Over the last seven years, Clinton had raised $175 million for her reelection and her presidential campaign.

    Seven years?
    That is a phenomenal piece of info.

    It is reasonable to suppose that campaigns have life spans. If so, at what point do they reach middle age? Senescence? At what point do they start to fatigue?

    More interesting!

    Consider this: Lance Armstrong was a genius at tapering his training so as to peak at 2 weeks in July. Yesterday Benen had a post on momentum. Maybe momentum isn’t the right variable to examine here. Perhaps “peaking” is the frame we should look at to capture a campaign’s vitality.

  • You never count the Clintons out, especially with their backs against the wall, but If I were a betting man…

    As for the Krugman piece: I told you so. I warned you, I warned you, but you didn’t listen to me. Like Friedman, you think I’m your enemy for telling you not to step in the dog doo five miles up the road, and you march right into it, then blame the guy who warned you for gloating, when really, I’m just shaking my head in sadness.

    As always happens with the Clintons, they are buoyed by their enemies because what ever sins they do commit end up seeming pale and far preferrable to the vitriol spewed over it and methods utilized to take advantage of it. Til now, you were able to keep it hidden on the Net, now this is a frame that will likely follow Obama into the generals.

    But hey, who am I? Just some dork on a blog.

  • Steve Benen Wrote:

    It’s worth keeping in mind that it would probably be foolish to see a staffing change like this as tantamount to rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Indeed, my hunch is Obama supporters might look at the Clinton staffing change as proof that Obama has the upper hand.

    ~

    I think it’s fair to say that we do. And I would say more.

    For me, all of this has been coming down the pike since Iowa. The Landslide victory in Maine was the final chapter in this sad tale of Hillary’s Campaign incompetence. The campaign manager swap, the campaign out of cash and these stories leaking out of Hillaryville are just the “Background” on the real story.

    Hillary loses Maine in 20 point landslide. That’s the rub. Let me explain.

    It’s now clear that they hand no campaign planed after Super Tuesday, even though in Iowa Mark Penn was saying stuff like, “Its all about the delegates”. Was this just bluster? Didn’t he know it was all about delegates? Or was he counting on winning Super Tuesday?

    Obama team had planned a national campaign from day one. After South Carolina, Obama’s people started fanning out around the country. Meanwhile Hillary assumed she would blast out of Iowa the winner and march her ass into the white house. In fact, she though she wouldn’t even need to campaign in Iowa (remember that?). This turns to have been a fantasy. Or to say it more plainly, total incompetence.

    If you care to look closely, the incompetence is the bi line all over Hillary’s campaign. It has been slipshod and messy since the beginning. It has no message. And no message control, just look at Bill Clinton to understand what I mean.

    What is Hillary campaigning for? What are her core beliefs? Why does she want to be president? I keep asking myself that question. And there are no answers forth coming from her campaign. The only thing I can say with confidence about Hillary is she is for woman’s rights, and Health Care. Beyond that… I got no idea what she cares about. That is another mark of her campaign’s incompetence. Look at the clarity of John Edward’s campaign. Even though he never caught fire, he ran a very good stump. Is there any doubt what he cares about?

    From Iowa on, every message out of the Clinton Camp has been a garbled reactionary stew devoid of Vision, Leadership or Character. She’s simply been playing catch up with Obama.

    In Iowa, “I am the Future Democratic Nominee”. Then oops, “I’ve found my voice”. In NV, “Culinary Union should not be allowed to vote if they backed Obama! A bit later, “He only won South Carolina because there are so many black people there.” After that, Florida and Michigan votes should count because they voted for ME! On Super Tuesday, she declared that, “Obama is now the Establishment Candidate”. And somewhere along the line Hillary became the candidate for “Change”. Finally her campaign crowed, “We stopped Obama in California”.

    ~ And then came Maine

    I’m not saying this because I want to pile onto Hillary’s unfortunate situation. Her campaign is going down in flames. The next month is going to be painful to watch. I just hope we don’t have to drag her screaming off the stage at the Democratic Convention, as she flails around trying to rip down the Obama Victory banners.

    Considering all this, let me say, Obama has run a class act campaign. In fact it’s been better than that, probably the best I’ve ever seen. He took on the Clintons. And now it seems clear that he won. To have a campaign that can go national like this, with such ease and sophistication during a primary fight is just unbelievable. This isn’t even the general election for Christ’s sakes.

    Hillary on the other hand has been captain on a sinking ship. Pretty strange, since she claims to be the “Experience” candidate. If that where true, this never would have happened.

  • Damn! I posted a half edited, unreadable piece of garbage on accident. Crap! Well if you didn’t read the first post at 19 I don’t blame you. Sorry about that. Please give 28 a chance.

    Thorin

  • Does this site endorse Hillary? It seems like a very pro-Clinton stance, and they seem to ignore Obama’s dominance in these primaries.

    Iowa – wins big
    NH – uses Iowa momentum to close gap and cause delegate tie
    NV – continues with momentum to win more delegates
    South Carolina – wins big
    Super Tuesday – momentum keeps rolling as Obama wins more delegates
    Saturday – SWEEEP in a LARGE way
    Sunday – CRUSHES CLINTON in a state she was supposed to win
    Tomorrw – ???

    If Obama wins big again tomorrow, will this site finally recognize that he is going to be our party’s nominee?

  • Harry Hood wrote:

    If Obama wins big again tomorrow, will this site finally recognize that he is going to be our party’s nominee?

    ~

    Some how I don’t think so. Steve Benen the blogger, as near as I can tell, is a Big D Democrat. In the way that Popes are all Catholic, and Bears Shit in the woods. Steve is for Democrats. And he sort of lays out the news on all things Democratic. He leaves it to us to rip our nipples off and sling bloody flesh nickles at eachother.

    He’s a Big Tent Democrat.

  • From Krugman’s article linked by Ed at #6: I’d like to see more moments like that, perhaps starting with strong assurances from both Democratic candidates that they respect their opponents and would support them in the general election.

    If I could have my wish for the day, I’d wish that to lead off the next head-to-head debate Obama would simply say to Hillary something along these lines: “Each of us has millions of supporters, and obviously we can’t be responsible for what they say in their moments of passion, nor can we be held responsible for the rudeness and vilification that they sometimes heap upon you or I. I can, however, apologize to you on behalf of any of my supporters who have acted in that manner, whether in print, on blogs, or elsewhere. And I can—and do—encourage my supporters to cease with character attacks on you, Hillary. You’re an honorable opponent and, should you prevail in winning the nomination, I will support you 100%, and I would hope that all my supporters would as well.”

    How awesome would that look? Damn, I wish I had a magic lamp!

  • Former Dan @ 12 writes: To not totally knock Hils team, as they ran it they would have done well as late as 2004. It really is her bad luck that she ran at the same time as Obama.

    HER bad luck? How about Edwards running against both of them. Somebody should have told him up front that he faced the overwhelming obstacle of being a handsome, eloquent, charismatic, qualified white male. How delusional would he have to be given all those factors to imagine that he could ever become president?

    It’s like all those poor very good pro golfers who just happen to have the misfortune of living in the time of Tiger Woods. Bad luck indeed.

  • Krugman’s column is actually a bit more nefarious than it seems at first glance. He’s not actually complaining about the dirty campaigning that Obama’s organization has engaged in because he can’t! They haven’t! You have one really stupid memo early in the campaign that Obama apologized for and retracted, but other than that you don’t hear Obama’s official supporters mention Whitewater or Travelgate or the various other sordid stories that fill out Hillary’s political life. On the other hand, Hillary’s surrogates mention drug use, “radical madrassahs”, and make condescending racial remarks that seem to imply that Black voters aren’t an important part of the Democratic Party.

    What Krugman is actually saying is that the voters shouldn’t engage in ruthless attacks against their opponents. I hate to break this to him, but F**K OFF. If I hate the Clintons I’m perfectly entitled to bring up every single real and imagined scandal they have ever been a part of to try to smear her personal integrity. A Hillary supporter is equally entitled to do the same (and they do, but in smaller numbers).

    It’s funny, the democratic process in this country usually works the other way. Candidates typically end up saying despicable things about their opponents that turn off the average voter and result in apathy and low voter turnout. In this election, both candidates have been remarkably nice, but their rank-and-file supporters are at each other’s throats. You know what, I like it better this way. I’d rather vote for a political candidate who rises above the fray.

  • I hate to break this to him, but F**K OFF. If I hate the Clintons I’m perfectly entitled to bring up every single real and imagined scandal they have ever been a part of to try to smear her personal integrity.

    Not a real Obama supporter. I have more respect for them than that.

  • Thorin,

    I agree with your comment at #19 with one caveat: don’t count the Clinton campaign out yet. They may be down, but they are not out.

    Even as an Obama supporter, I have enough respect for the Clinton campaign to not dis them like that. Sure, they are experiencing problems and momentum seems to be in the Obama camp right now, but like they say in sports “that’s why they play the game” as anyone who watched the Super Bowl will tell you.

    And as I have said many times before, I will vote for Clinton if she gets the nomination. The next president will likely appoint more than one Supreme Court Justice. That fact alone makes it a critical vote. But I have also said many times that Obama is more electible in the general election because of his appeal to independents and centrist Republicans. Without Obama, McCain will have the advantage among independents.

  • It’s almost like a parody of a campaign run by a bunch of professional “Heathers”. But then, these are the people who have always known they were entitled to hold power. They’ve been like this since I first met their type back in grad school 35 years ago.

    The person she really needs to get rid of is that slimy little fuckwit, Mark Penn. If ever there was a staffing reason to vote against a candidate, it would be to keep this Rove-wannabe as far from the levers of power as possible, while allowing him to remain on the same planet.

  • Independent Thinker Says: I agree with your comment at #19 with one caveat: don’t count the Clinton campaign out yet. They may be down, but they are not out. Even as an Obama supporter, I have enough respect for the Clinton campaign to not dis them like that.

    Well, I guess that is exactly what I’m arguing. They are out. And this is the final proof. If you read 28 it should be more clear that I’m not talking about Hillary, but her campaign. Though I believe there are leadership issues not running a better campaign. I think it is the campaign itself that has made her look far worse than she actually is.

  • Thorin,

    Regarding #19, #28 and #38, I GOT the message the first time, though your wordsmithing was definitely better on #38–LOL! What I am say is that I AGREE with your conclusions. You are probably correct, but until people actually vote in Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania, we won’t know for sure.

    I agree with you that it appears that the Clinton campaign is listing and in bad shape, but I won’t say it is beyond repair until I see the results in the final big states.

  • We’re going to win the election — with either candidate. This year we’d win if we ran Michael Dukakis again. We almost beat Bush with John Kerry — before the war showed itself to be the disaster to everybody that it has become, when 9/11 was more of a living memory, before the country had had four years to lose their fear of gays, and with Bush at least looking vigorous, not showing his age the way McCain does. Oh, and when all the parts of the Republican party were pulling together.

    McCain can’t pull the christian extremists back with him, he’ll lose a lot of the dittoheads who listened to Directive A from Fearless Leader and missed Directive B, and he can’t answer the 64,000,000 vote question without losing support either way. (“Sen. McCain, do you see yourself, for the most part, the preserver of President Bush’s legacy, or the corrector of his mistakes? And if the second, what were they?”)

    The question is, how will the Congressional races be affected, and this is the political reason I support Obama — I also think he’s the better campaigner and will make a better President yes, but we’re talking ‘the numbers game’ here.

    Some of the Hilary haters will come out, if she is the candidate. Not as many as too many of us fear — remember how many of them hated her for supporting an adulterer. McCain’s second marriage is questionable enough to keep them home. And others, who hate her because she’s not liberal enough will not come out for McCain. But some will come out. I don’t think they’ll cost her a single state. But most of them would sit out if Obama were running.

    It wouldn’t cost her a state, but it might cost a dozen seats in close races — and most of the formerly ‘deep red’ districts will be this year.

    Conversely, Obama has been bringing people out everywhere. I’d love to see comparisons — Congressional district by Congressional district — of the attendance in the caucuses compared to past years, and the number of people voting in the primaries compared to the Democratic vote in the previous Congressional election. This may not mean that he would carry some of the areas, but it would mean that the Republicans — underfunded for them, and under-enthusiastic about their candidate — would have to defend previously safe districts. And we might win even more of them.

    Of course, this assumes that the excitement and enthusiasm he engenders keeps up, but, barring a major disaster, why shouldn’t it? Especially against McCain. He looks old compared to Hilary, but imagine seeing him and Obama. (And it is specifically age, not ‘senior wisdom’ that he projects. Somebody should put together a YouTube video showing a McCain speech from 2000 and his Super Tuesday speech side by side. It would be devastating, especially if it included shots of how being President ages everyone, comparisons of the way they looked on election night and four years later. The point ‘and they were younger, look at where McCain starts from’ doesn’t even need to be said.)

    So, I think Hilary costs us some seats, Obama wins us some — not just in previously red districts, but in close districts the Republicans might have defended better if they weren’t ‘stretched so thin.’

    It’s enough for me to support him if I had no better reason. But still, remember

    “Hey, Republicans!
    We’ve got two good candidates, and you’ve got none
    (wanna borrow one?)”

  • Independent thinker said:

    Regarding #19, #28 and #38, I GOT the message the first time, though your wordsmithing was definitely better on #38–LOL! What I am say is that I AGREE with your conclusions. You are probably correct, but until people actually vote in Texas, Ohio and Pennsylvania, we won’t know for sure.

    ~

    I understand what you mean. Part of me is scared to believe what I’m writing. But in the history of politicking. I don’t think there is any example of a campaign as thread bear as Clintons beating a campaign as crystalline as Obama’s. The cash. The message control. The discipline. The volunteerism. The determination. The get out the vote squad. And the quality of the candidate. And now that approval is 50/50 in America. They cynical campaign watcher in me cannot believe that Clinton has a chance to win this thing.

    I say this, as a guy who has been betting with all his cash on a long shot since January 2006, and confident I would lose my shirt. I never thought Obama would pull this off though I knew deep down he should. Emotionally I don’t want to allow myself to believe it now. But they cynic says…

    This race is over.

  • President Lindsay @ 32:

    I’ve been listening very carefully to Barack’s victory speeches. I’ve noticed a lot of subtle changes with the passage of time. One of the more recent changes is along the lines you mention: party reconciliation.

    Recently he has begun to arc words out to soothe bruised egos. Of course this is extraordinarily mature gamesmanship. He is not the party’s chosen nominee. And the Clinton machine is awesome: 7 years and 175 million dollars and 1000s of favors callable as the wife of an ex-president! Yet still he hones his message, assuming otherwise, and understanding that the time has come to play his hand just that way.

    The audacity of hope… indeed.

  • “Does this site endorse Hillary? It seems like a very pro-Clinton stance, and they seem to ignore Obama’s dominance in these primaries.” (#30)

    Most partisans think the other side gets the breaks and endorsement while their own is being ignored. It’s actually a sign of health (which Nietzsche defined not as the absence of illness but as a measure of how much illness the body can stand).

    I share the antipathy of many here toward the Cllintons’ lies and innuendos (e.g., the Jesse Jackson crack, the … why list them?). Fact is, all sorts of “dirty tricks” have been used in politics, all the way back to the early days of Athenian democracy in 500 B.C..

    Immediately after WWII Richard Nixon’s people successfully spread a last-minute rumor that incumbent CA Congressman Jerry Voorhees was a Communist. This hatchet job wrecked a very good man and launched a long political career for Nixon which, with several bumps along the way, led to a seriously fatally flawed presidency. But beforre he fell, “tricky Dick” took down many much worthier opponents.

    Nixon’s long-time campaign manager, Murray Chotiner once told me “You don’t enter a political campaign to win. You enter it to so destroy your opponent that he’ll never raise his political head again.” Much the same spirit dominated the 1800 US Presidential campaign between John Adams and Thomas Jefferson.

    I think some of that mean spirit exists today. We expect it from the right. They have been schooled in hatred and loathing ever since the campaign of Barry Goldwater (the “movement” conservatives). The Good vs. Evil view of things dominated the Reagan era (“welfare queens”, e.g.) and has hit some sort of crescendo (or nadir) with Karl Rove’s faith-based creeps in the Bush Crime Family.

    But, as I’ve suggested above, that’s politics. Rough-and-tumble, whatever works, damn the torpedoes, etc. There really is only one limit: when your tactics become counter-productive, when they begin to backfire on you. Nixon lived a nearly complete political lifetime before his caught with him. It now looks as though – with Pelosi and Reid as co-conspirators – Bush will actually live through his allotted political lifetime. It’s unfair, immoral, maddening … but it is a fact. We haven’t mounted an effective counter punch.

    There’s no question (in my mind) that the Clintons have turned what long ago was charming into something more akin to bullying. They once stood for “change”; now they represent “more of the same”. I’ll take “more of the same without the Bush Crime Family” if I have to, but my preference is for the promised sea change, domestically and abroad.

    Which makes the Hillary hating expressed by some “movement” Obama supporters all the more painful to me. It’s going to make it very hard, should Hillary get the nomination (a real world, amoral possibility), to join in producing a Democratic victory in November. We must keep our eyes on that prize.

  • Krugman has betrayed deep frustration. He is so frustrated his column is nearly incoherent. He fabricates a one-sided story of dirty politics and even compares Obama to presidents Nixon and Bush. This is only more evidence of just how deep allegiances run for both Hillary and Obama.

    Contrary to Krugman’s view, and omitting earlier remarks by Bill Clinton, I think this campaign has been fairly fought by both candidates. Sure some potshots have hit the press as will always be the case, but overall the contest has been civil.

    One more comment: The tendency of some Hillary supporters to talk of the “Obama cult” is unfortunate but inevitable. Obama, in his speech at the Jefferson-Jackson dinner on Saturday, spoke of “the cynicism that so often passes for wisdom”. These detractors will actually lay claim to a greater concern for policy and a deeper understanding of the issues when in fact they are only reacting to that which they refuse to accept. There is nothing wrong with a leader inspiring his or her people. The great ones always do.

  • Nicely written Ed.
    Did you write about your caucus experience?
    If so… I missed it.
    Post a url please.

  • You know what… I’m too old to be thinking or doing something stupid like this, but I think I might just have to jump on a plane and go canvas for Obama in Texas. You know what, I’m sure I’ll have an awesome time at Austin rallies. And meeting democrats all over the Silver Star State.

    I’d expected to spend my long awaited vacation time on a hammock on a beach somewhere… But you know what. These memories will be worth it for the next 50 years.

  • Thorin @19
    “Hillary on the other hand has been captain on a sinking ship. Pretty strange, since she claims to be the “Experience” candidate. If that where true, this never would have happened.”

    The Titanic’s captain was experienced too, they don’t hand a ship that big, expensive and “unsinkable” to just ANYONE.

    “Foolish” to invoke the deck chairs line?
    Seems a little harsh.

    “Premature” is as mean as I’d say about it. That would probably be wise, too.
    I don’t assume Hilary is down. She’s like a phoenix George Foreman Freddy Krueger. Always check for a pulse before you turn your back. Maybe not even then.

  • SV, I think you didn’t bother to actually read Krugman’s column, because it was neither frustrated nor incoherent. He wasn’t accusing Obama of Nixon-tactics, he was accusing some of my fellow Obama supporters of that. And if you’ve been paying any attention, you should know full well that he’s right. Many Obama supporters are very enthusiastic about bringing up things like Vince Foster and Whitewater, all the while blithely assuring everyone that Obama could easily survive the Republican smear machine that would swiftly kill Clinton’s candidacy.

    Like it or not, that’s very blatant mud-slinging. And it is also flat-out wrong. Krugman is quite right when he points out that all the GOP smears of the Clintons were manufactured out of thin air. And any of my fellow Obama supporters who really believe that the GOP won’t be able to create similar lies about our candidate are living in a fairy world. As Krugman also pointed out, they did it to Gore and to Kerry; they can do it to Obama also. Yet, this amazingly blinkered Obama-v-Clinton flame war is happening at every major liberal blog, and at quite a few of the not-so-major ones. It’s happening *here*. Take off the rose-colored glasses and have a good look around.

    Now, I’m not particularly worried about Obama being able to deal with GOP smears. He’s already done a fair job of it, what with thumbing his nose at Faux “News” and his glee at Bush’s recent weak criticism of his foreign policy ideas. I think any Clinton supporter who claims that Obama can’t deal with it as well as Clinton could is wrong.

    But any Obama supporter who says that Obama wouldn’t have to deal with it (which is the clear implication whenever they bring it up) is also wrong. So we need to stop pretending that Clinton’s “baggage” from the 1990’s is an advantage for Obama. It isn’t. If Obama wins the primary, as I hope he does, then going into the general election with such an amazingly naive belief about the GOP’s mud-slinging politics will spell certain defeat.

  • Shade Trail:

    he was accusing some of my fellow Obama supporters of that. And if you’ve been paying any attention, you should know full well that he’s right. Many Obama supporters are very enthusiastic about bringing up things like Vince Foster and Whitewater, all the while blithely assuring everyone that Obama could easily survive the Republican smear machine that would swiftly kill Clinton’s candidacy.

    I have to call bullshit on your argument.
    Here’s why:

    If she cannot survive the left wing slime machine she will not survive the right wing slime machine.

    ‘nuf said.

  • Very well stated, shade tail. I’m a Clinton supporter that will vote for Obama should he win the nomination. It’s the principles and policies that are the goal and there are virtually no differences between Obama and Clinton in that regard.

    Many Obama supporters are very enthusiastic about bringing up things like Vince Foster and Whitewater, all the while blithely assuring everyone that Obama could easily survive the Republican smear machine that would swiftly kill Clinton’s candidacy. Like it or not, that’s very blatant mud-slinging. And it is also flat-out wrong.

    ka-CHING!!

  • Nice one, Thorin; well, nice two, but that was a mistake. I’d like to believe the Clintons are out – and I’m surprised to feel that way, because I liked Bill Clinton and thought he was mostly a pretty good president, but Hillary seems to have such a sense of entitlement – because I was a fan of Obama more or less as soon as he declared. Still, I also have to agree with those who counsel that it’s not time for the victory dance yet. Don’t underestimate how badly Hillary Clinton wants the presidency.

    That’s not necessarily a bad thing, it should go to somebody who deeply desires it, otherwise it might go to a lazy boob like Fred Thompson. But there is virtually nothing Hillary would not do to seize the nomination, even knowing the majority of Democratic voters prefer someone else.

    So far, Obama hasn’t had to get dirty. Would he? I don’t know, but he wants to be president at least as much as Mrs. Clinton does, and it’s so close to becoming reality. I hope it doesn’t get to that point, because it’s harder to see him as an inspirational figure when he’s sprawled in the mud, grunting and wrestling with Hillary.

    The Democratic party as a whole would be wise to keep in mind that this nomination battle has already dragged on past the point when the eventual nominee should be focusing on the real enemy – the Republicans. Right now the candidates are so busy fighting each other that the eventual nominee is going to have an abrupt course change to deal with soon. Better get with the G-suit.

  • Many Obama supporters are very enthusiastic about bringing up things like Vince Foster and Whitewater… -Shade Tail

    Those people are not legitimate Obama supporters. Those are trolls doing what trolls do. Real Obama supporters disavow themselves of that garbage.

    I think if you look at it logically, you’ll find that the simple solution is that that they are disgruntled Republican trolls, since everything about their arguments, save for espousing support of Obama, is exactly the same material they’ve been using for a decade.

    Don’t fall into the trap of attributing the views of a vocal minority to the majority. Most Obama supporters are reasoned, level-headed Democrats who want the same things for our country as Clinton supporters, but think his approach is better than hers.

    Just because Krugman writes a column based on the ravings of blog trolls doesn’t legitimize them; it only serves to make him look foolish.

  • I find it odd that almost every criticism that Hillary people make of Obama applies at least as much to her, if not more so (eg, he can’t win in red states). I am convinced that they have a real problem in that they can’t find any actual reason to dislike Obama. And apparently, a majority of primary voters can’t either. Had he not come along, I’m sure she would have been the obvious choice and I would have supported her. But he’s here and they can’t find any reason why we should reject him. I still don’t understand why they keep trying at this point. He’s proven that he’s at least as good of a campaigner as Hillary (if not better), he raises more money, and their policies are almost identical. I don’t see what the problem is.

    BTW, I can’t believe that Jim would suggest that Hillary might win in Oklahoma. I can’t speak for Arkansas or Tennessee, but there’s no way McCain is losing OK. He could just send his old uniform to tour the state and never have to show up there himself, and he’d still win by a large margin. This kind of talk really makes me feel bad for her supporters, when it’s obvious they’re just clutching at straws. But let’s keep things in the realm of reality. We’re all friends and there’s no reason we need to invent things to make our points.

  • Have you read this?

    http://fish.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/02/10/a-calumny-a-day-will-keep-hillary-away/index.html

    My concern is that, once again, we are not going to elect the person best qualified to be president. I guess your take on that will be … what qualifies a person to be president? I think experience does, some of you think elloquence does.

    Mr. Obama has never been tried as a public/political figure. His opposition to the Senate … literally fell away from him. He hasn’t had to see a bad situation, find his way out of it and go forward. We have multiple bad situations on our hands. Electing someone with a proven record of working through bad situiations and coming out the other side standing up seems like it should be somewhat tollerable.

  • Marian @ 58 – Obama has held elected office longer than Hillary, building a strong reputation as a State Senator. I don’t know why some people don’t consider state legislators to be real, but I do. Moreover, he has clearly shown that he’s at least as good a campaigner as Hillary. I mean, if he can’t handle pressure, I fail to see how this bodes well for her that he’s beating her so far for the nomintation.

    Besides, in what way has she proven that she can handle pressure? I suppose she didn’t go postal during the whole Lewinsky/Impeachment thing, so that counts for something. But I doubt you’re suggesting that Obama would will go on a shooting spree either. The truth is that it takes a weak person to fold when being attacked and that most people handle pressure fairly well. So I fail to see what you’re talking about, short of the standard invented stuff against him that I mentioned earlier. I’m not saying she’s folded under pressure, but I fail to see what you’re talking about.

    BTW, I suspect that the main reason Obama didn’t have a real Senate challenger is because nobody but Keyes wanted to lose to him. Remember, even at the time he was considered a future presidential contender and “rock star,” so much so that he was given the keynote slot for the 2004 Democratic convention. Since then, he’s proven that his reputation was deserved. If an invincible fighter like Hillary can’t take him out on her own, I fail to see why we should do it for her. As I said before, it just sounds like her supporters can’t come up with any legitimate reason to reject him, and it appears that a majority of Democrats can’t either.

  • One of the biggest issue on this story is that it leaked at all. And that was one biggest problems Bill faced in the Whitehouse, that the place leaked like a sieve. The Bushies always ran a tight ship, and even after people leave the Whitehouse most of them keep a tight lip and can only praise Dear Leader. I don’t know what it is about the Clintons, but their people have loose lips, and this story is really horrible for them. I don’t know if Obama will have this same problem, but I hope he gets a better handle on it.

    Message control is one of the most important things in politics, and even one insider willing to tell the media about all the behind-the-scene confusion going on only makes the situation worse. As CB said, Hillary was supposed to be running a tight organization. The fact that she can’t even keep her campaign staff from blabbing isn’t a good sign. But then again, I’ve often thought that this might be a Republican v. Democrat difference and that loose lips might be an unavoidable part of any Democratic presidency because they’re just not authoritarians like Republicans are. All the same, something needs to be done. Staff loyality isn’t the most important thing for a president, but its close.

  • Shade Tail said:
    “SV, I think you didn’t bother to actually read Krugman’s column, because it was neither frustrated nor incoherent. He wasn’t accusing Obama of Nixon-tactics, he was accusing some of my fellow Obama supporters of that. And if you’ve been paying any attention, you should know full well that he’s right.”

    Shade tail, you’re absolutely right. In my reaction to perceived Obama slights I ended up talking out of both sides of my a**. And yes I have seen Obama supporters slinging the mud and I don’t like it. I had believed the smearing to be less pervasive amongst Obama supporters, but I have been schooled. Now, with a clearer head, I will commend Krugman in addressing the mud slinging because frankly it should help refocus Obama’s supporters. But I still think he victimized the Clinton’s disproportionately.

  • Many of the criticisms of Obama, particularly those that attack his experience, seem to assume the president does all this stuff himself (or herself). The president does not personally lead the Department of Homeland Security, or guard the Port Angeles border, or listen in on people’s phone calls or plan attacks on countries he or she believes need attacking for whatever reason. The president appoints what he or she judges to be well-qualified individuals to head up the various departments – those departments pool their collective wisdom and judgment, and offer it to the president in the form of a briefing, which may or may not require him or her to make a decision based on the information presented. Bush was roundly mocked for referring to himself as The Decider, and although he deserved it, actually he was right; he was mocked more for making such a stupid, cataclysmic mess of it than for any suggestion that the president should not have the last word.

    President Obama or President Clinton will not need to have the experience to run the departments of Justice, Foreign Affairs, Environment, Defense or Energy. All they will need in the way of experience will be the judgment to know who is most capable of doing so. Barack Obama is not going to pick all blacks, and Hillary Clinton is not going to pick all women. Experience isn’t nothing, but it’s nowhere near as important as some are making it out to be.

  • Prup, don’t get cocky if you think the democrats could win even if they nominated Dukakas you didn’t see him campaign. And JRS Jr don’t put to much stock in national head to head polls pitting McCain/ Obama and McCain/Clinton right now. They don’t really mean much. Unlike most of the people that post here most of the voting public haven’t really started focusing on politics yet. This can be seen by the fact that only 10% of the eligible democrats participated in the Washington caucuses. Obama to a great degree is a blank slate to a large portion of the voting public. Unfortunately his introduction to that voting public will to a large measure come from the republican attack machine. If Obama wins the nomination I guarantee every republican you see on TV after that will mention, fairly or unfairly, that Obama is the most liberal Senator in the Senate. This will be one of their main talking points through to the election. I can even see them tying him to their hated enemy Hillary with an ad. Imagine a picture of Hillary then a voice over “you thought Hillary Clinton was too liberal, Barack Obama is 15 Senators to the left of her, as a matter of fact he’s the most liberal Senator we have.” “This is John McCain and I approve this message.” If the Obama supporters think Clinton has been to rough on him, they ain’t seen nothing yet, wait until the republican attack machine zeros in on him. I am unapologetically a democratic partisan, I am supporting Clinton but will support, canvas for, and vote for whoever the democratic nominee is. I just hope that if it Obama wins the nomination he can stand up to the attacks that are sure to come from the republicans.

  • If the Obama supporters think Clinton has been to rough on him, they ain’t seen nothing yet, wait until the republican attack machine zeros in on him.

    Oops, Gary. Looks like somebody missed memo. The new meme coming from HQ is that Obama and his peeps are too rough and that they’re ripping the party apart and destroying everything holy and good. Plus, we’re cultists who support him too much. Hillary gave up being rough after Barack showed he could play the game better than her while still looking charming. And now she’s relying upon voter sympathy to protect her from her rabid foes who use Republican arguments to smear her.

    And so you’re really going to have to drop the whole Obama’s got a glass jaw meme. That was soooooo pre-Super Tuesday, before Hillary was told she was out of dough. Try to keep up.

  • Dr B. Sorry I don’t read memos from either camp. The point wasn’t that Obama has a glass jaw, it’s just that his jaw hasn’t even been tested yet. Clinton has proven her jaw to be made of steel since at least 1992. Let’s hope that Obama’s is as strong has hers.

  • Clinton has proven her jaw to be made of steel since at least 1992.

    Really. Well you should try telling that to the people around here who insist that we’ve been too rough on Hillary. They’re still sensitive to bogus Clinton scandals that most people have forgotten about. Apparently, they’re still worried that jaw’s going to break.

    As for Obama’s jaw going untested, what the heck has Clinton been doing? She’s losing the race, yet still won’t try to make any kind of punch? Sounds like a poor strategy to me. Besides, how exactly do you break a jaw if impeachment doesn’t count? What is it that you think will happen to Barack? That he’ll be attacked so much he’ll cry during a debate? He’ll drop out in October? Suicide? Please tell me, I’d like to know what a broken jaw means.

    Because as far as campaigning goes and getting his message across, it’s quite obvious he’s excellent at it. Probably better than Hillary. He’s now taking a good lead on the candidate who was the Invincible Fighter with the huge campaign chest. Now she’s broke and is basically giving up hope of winning any states until Texas and Ohio. So if he can’t handle himself on the campaign trail, what does that say of Hillary? The truth is that you’ve got nothing real you can say about Obama, so you’ve got to make up these mystery smears, in hopes to scare people away from the Democrat they really want. It’s not working. Hillary’s a fine candidate, but Barack’s clearly better. Voters seem to agree.

  • you’ve got nothing real you can say about Obama, so you’ve got to make up these mystery smears

    You seem much to sensitive Dr B, seeing mystery smears where there are none. I am a pragmatic union card carrying partisan democrat (that post partisan wave hasn’t swept over me yet, probably never will). My only concern is that we have a democrat in the white house come next January. To that end in my opinion Clinton will be the stronger opponent against McCain in the fall. However as I said either one will have my vote.

  • You seem much to sensitive Dr B, seeing mystery smears where there are none.

    I’m sorry, but I consider it to be a nonsensical smear on Obama to suggest that he’s untested, with the implication that we’re seriously playing with fire if we nominate him. It’s one thing to have said this back in 2006 or even a year ago when he first announced and was touted as a “rockstar” but with little evidence he could really campaign. But at this point, having coming from behind and outlasted seasoned politicians like John Edwards, and now beating Hillary in a well-fought campaign that she over-spent on; I fail to see how he’s untested.

    I think it’s quite obvious that he’s proven himself so far. And as I said, we’re now at the portion of the campaign where the Clinton people are putting up the white-flag and wanting a truce with us, and I’m fine with that. Things really did get kind of ugly (though I do think GOP hi-jinks may have been involved). And I have no problem if people have geniune questions that can be answered regarding Obama. But too often, they’re still tossing out these generic “He lacks experience” memes that are unanswerable. No matter what one thinks of Obama, it’s obvious that he’s at least as good at getting his message across as Hillary. And I strongly believe he’s much better, which explains his popularity. She wins when he can’t get his message out because she was the default candidate, but the more he talks, the more people listen.

    BTW, as I keep telling people, I believe the “post-partisan” thing is just a ruse to help him sell himself to the media elite who want to go to parties with both R’s and D’s. It’s just a little bit of sugar to help the liberal medicine go down. And if it allows a Republican to save face by supporting a liberal policy sold by a “post-partisan” president, I’m all for that. Will it definitely work? Who knows. But Obama is the only shot we’ve got at seeing if it can. And if it can’t, then we’re no worse off than if we hadn’t done it at all. But again, if nothing else, it’ll help the media buy it, and that’s a big part of our problem.

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