A behind-the-scenes look at the Clinton staff shake-up

On Sunday, Patti Solis Doyle, the campaign manager for Hillary Clinton’s campaign, was sacked. About 48 hours later, Mike Henry, the deputy campaign manager, was gone. By last night, two more staffers had left the campaign as well.

As I mentioned the other day, I’ve never seen the inner workings of the Clinton campaign up close, but I’ve always pictured an extremely efficient, professional operation, run by some of the most experienced Democratic staffers in the business. If the campaign faltered, it wouldn’t be the fault of a slapdash, mistake-prone team.

But The Atlantic’s Josh Green has a fascinating item this week on the inner workings of the campaign, and what led to the staff shake-up. The problem began early on by dismissing Obama’s chances.

“Not a lot, but some people, were losing sleep about Obama as early as last winter, keeping an eye on his moves and tracking his hires and outreach,” a Clinton insider admitted to me last spring. “There were two reasons nothing happened. First, by admitting he’s a factor, you’re giving him the credibility that you don’t want him to have. Second, everybody thought he would flame out. They didn’t think he could pull a money team and enough talent together to mount a serious challenge.”

Of course, Obama did just that, relying on the new donor class Clinton had ignored. “When Obama came along,” an embittered Clinton aide told me, “suddenly you had your choice of rock star.”

The Clinton team soon came to realize that Obama was a credible candidate for the nomination, but decided the way to neutralize the threat was to stick to the “inevitability” strategy.

Here, too, Solis Doyle was disastrous; her lack of skill in areas other than playing the loyal heavy began to show. The first public sign of this came just after Clinton’s reelection to the Senate. Even though Clinton had faced no serious opponent, it turned out that Solis Doyle, as campaign manager, had burned through more than $30 million. As this New York Times story makes clear, the donor base was incensed. Toward the end of the Senate campaign, Solis Doyle did her best to bolster the impression of the inevitability of Hillary’s nomination as the Democratic presidential candidate, spreading word that Clinton’s Senate reelection fund-raising had gone so exceptionally well that $40 million to $50 million would be left after Election Day to transfer to the incipient presidential campaign. But this turned out to be a wild exaggeration — and Solis Doyle must have known it was. Disclosure filings revealed a paltry $10 million in cash on hand; far from conveying Hillary’s inevitability, this had precisely the opposite effect, encouraging, rather than frightening off, potential challengers.

Rather than punish Solis Doyle or raise questions about her fitness to lead, Clinton chose her to manage the presidential campaign for reasons that should now be obvious: above all, Clinton prizes loyalty and discipline, and Solis Doyle demonstrated both traits, if little else. This suggests to me that for all the emphasis Clinton has placed on executive leadership in this campaign, her own approach is a lot closer to the current president’s than her supporters might like to admit.

Ouch. How did Solis Doyle get the campaign-manager position in the first place? Green explained that she was rewarded for her “loyalty, rather than her skill, despite a trail of available evidence suggesting she was unsuited for the role.”

And all of this comes, of course, after recent revelations that Clinton was intentionally kept in the dark about the campaign’s financial troubles, with her top aides preferring to keep her in a bubble, reinforced by constant encouragement that everything was fine.

So, what happens now?

Even at this late date, Clinton has a clear path to winning the nomination if she can prevail in Ohio and Texas, as she’s expected to. Solis Doyle’s replacement, Maggie Williams, is thought to possess many of the skills her predecessor lacked, while enjoying a relationship with Clinton that is every bit as close. Every reaction I’ve gotten from inside the campaign has been exuberance at Williams’s arrival — followed by concern over whether the change was made too late.

I can still imagine a scenario in which Clinton recovers and wins the nomination, despite mismanagement in her campaign, but a) it’s a little tougher to believe than it was a couple of weeks ago; and b) it’s even easier to imagine Clinton in a far better position in the race right now were it not for these very costly internal mistakes.

Is Hillary really hoping to have the delegates from Michigan and Florida seated? Makes me sick. Obama wasn’t even on the ballot in Michigan, and Hillary should not have been either. And we all know that Hillary always starts off leading a state and then when Obama campaigns there, he takes over. They didn’t even allow campaigning in Florida.

Hillary’s last resort of MI, FL and a coup of the Super Delegates is disgusting.

I voted for Hillary in Massachusetts, but I am so disgusted by her at this point.

Hillary should step aside and let the party unite under Obama. If she was looking out for the best for our party, that is what she would do. Unfortunately, Hillary is a Clinton, and what is best for the Clintons looks like what they care about the most.

  • Anybody know what that hour long buy on the Hallmark Channel cost her? Was this a wise use of limited campaign funds?

  • above all, Clinton prizes loyalty and discipline…

    I’ve seen this leadership style before. Heckuva job, Hilly.

  • If Hillary had the best interest of the party in mind, she would step down and allow us to build momentum for Barack.

    But I have a feeling Hillary’s negative ads are just about to start. She cares more about herself than the party.

  • …were it not for these very costly internal mistakes.

    “Internal” doesn’t quite work here for me. Not sure what the right word is, but it has to include some kind of top-down management style that encourages the formation of Bush-like bubbles.

    On the other side one naturally wonders if Barack’s campaign team is composed of strong dissenting voices freely batting around ideas. Much the way he asserts his cabinet will be. It is a superior way to govern. But only if you have a knack for picking the right strong voices. Some do. Some don’t. Some, like Hillary and Bush, are loathe to even try.

  • If Hillary’s star goes neutron and completely blows up, I hope this is the end of the old generation of Democratic “heavyweight” consultants who have been so adept at losing and blowing tons of money in the process. Clinton’s team reminds me of Detroit automakers: when the rest of the world is demanding new and different, Detroit sticks with what made them money in years past, only to see the competition pass them by in a cloud of dust.

    Barack’s team seems to have the much better instincts. They haven’t played their entire hand yet and still have lots of wiggle room to grow and advance their candidate. Plus they seem to have the mindset that it takes a lot of good, old-fashioned hard work and organizing to get things done. Hillary’s team seems to be making a lot of assumptions and gambles that just aren’t panning out. The Hillary team has a much better product than they are letting on, they just haven’t sold it very well.

  • Skipping the FISA vote rendered Senator Hillary Clinton as unfit to be president of the United States. The FISA bill represents one of the most important constitutional issues in recent memory. I suspect Clinton deliberately did not vote on the FISA bill for political expediency. She would be damned by the left if she voted for telecom immunity and damned by the right if she voted no.

  • Hillary is toast; it’s all over now… She is much too corporate, much too in favor of imperial aggression in Iraq, much too in favor of bombing Iran. She has worked for twenty years to keep our health care corporate: run by HMOs, insurance companies and pharmaceutical corporations. Losing eight primaries in four days must be a record for a presumed (and presumptuous) “front runner.”

  • Could this be the end of the line for Mark Penn, Terry McAuliffe, James Carville, Harold Ickes and the rest of the Clinton cronies? Glory be, I hope so!

  • Sorry, everybody, I don’t buy the argument at all that Hillary should just “step aside” at this point of the game. Obviously, the previous commenters were all Obama fans who want the game over NOW. That’s not how it works.

    To rebut some of the the arguments thus far:

    1. None of the candidates campaigned in Michigan or Florida due to the party’s ruling regarding the early candidates. Why take your name off the ballot? What would that accomplish, other than disenfranchising voters on those states?

    2. I don’t believe for a second that Obama “takes over” once he starts campaigning in a given state. It takes time for any message to resonate, even Obama’s “Hope.” Obama certainly has nowhere to go but up in most states given the lack of name recognition he’s had in comparison to Clinton’s and just by the difference of the number of years in the public eye (at the national level) each candidate has spent.

    3. Considering the hell the media and Republicans have put the Clinton family through, valuing loyalty and discipline is bad…how? Agreed, you still need people who will stand up to bad ideas and spout the truth when needed. But loyal staffers is a good thing and Obama’s campaign is no different.

    Until it becomes obvious that Hillary has no chance at the nomination, I say go for it. We can argue, sometimes successfully, about negative messages and framing; we can argue about faulty strategies (and God knows, Hillary’s staff has/had several); and we can argue about much else. But until the primaries are over or it becomes unarguably apparent where the Democratic Party is headed for a presidential candidate, Hillary should stay in.

  • I think, given Solis Doyle’s ethnic roots, that the Clinton campaign should strongly encourage her to actively campaign for Hillary in Texas.

  • Honestly, I think that at this point we can write off the Clinton campaign. Her strategy, widely professed by this point, requires wins in both Texas and Ohio on March 4. Barring some earth-shaking news about Obama between now and then, his run of wins across February will reverberate in a win in at least one of those states (probably Ohio, maybe both).

    To me, the defining factor has been his margins of victory. Sure, Hillary has pulled out wins, but not by the margins which Obama has claimed– multiple times over. Even her win in California was heavily overshadowed by early voting (note the relatively high number of votes for Edwards there, despite the fact that he had already dropped out).

    At this point– again, barring any earth-shattering news about Obama– the conclusion is inevitable. I’ll bank on a 60-40 win for Obama in Ohio, and the game is already over at that point. As we have seen in the past week, Superdelegates are Not going to risk shattering the party by deciding the candidate. Obama will most likely not get to the ‘magic’ 2025 number by the convention on pledged delegates, but he will have a significant lead– and that will be enough to break the vote to his side.

  • The story is going after Hillary’s strength, and is far more damaging than given credit for at the moment. Her allure is that she runs a tight ship, is astute, and knows how to roll up her sleeves and play politics. This paints her as George W. Bush, prizing loyalty above all else and shielded from reality.

    The one major story line I saw brewing — of Obama the “cult”– has largely been clamped down, with that kind of divisive talk either getting muzzled or marginalized, which was the one major flaw I saw undoing his campaign. Once it made it into Krugman, they seemed to have finally realized the characterization was spreading and showed themselves able to correct course, as I feared they wouldn’t be. So, I don’t see what slows him down.

    Hillary’s move for Florida only reinforces the image of desperation, and lacking character. I think Obama’s about to pull away. Give Hillary her opportunity for a comeback in Texas and Ohio, but if she has turned things around by then, it’s time for me to shave my head and take up the bongos.

  • Like the French Generals said in 1930: “the Germans can never cross Belgium again and it’s impossible to come through the Ardennes forest because it’s impassable, so they can only attack us here where we are building this great fortified line that will defend France forever.”

    Or like the American Admirals said: “The Japanese can’t build airplanes good enough to fight us and certainly they’re too myopic to fy them off aircraft carriers and attack Pearl Harbor.”

    Or like theneocons said in Baghdad in 2003: “Those people don’t even have an army! And besides, they’ll greet us as liberators!”

    Overconfidence is always a recipe for overthrow. And I can’t think of a bigger bunch of overconfident morons than the Clinton campaign.

  • Skipping the FISA vote rendered Senator Hillary Clinton as unfit to be president of the United States.

    The vote wasn’t close, so I don’t fault Hillary for not being there, but she should have stated her position on the day of the vote, so we all know where she stood. Her complete silence on this issue allows her to waffle later (compare with Obama who, although out-of-town, put out a statement declaring his opposition to Kyl_Lieberman on the day of the vote).

  • Jim@#10,

    Clinton has claimed over and over again that she is best equipped to fight the right wing slime machine but Clinton could not even handle a challenge from within her own party. She’s made some pretty dumb mistakes. When the chips went down, she sent in her husband and looked how well that strategy worked out. Clinton came out looking weak and not her own person.

    What I would like to see is an analysis of Clinton’s campaign expenditures vs Obama’s. I’ve read that Clinton has spent a ton of money on consultants rather then spending it on media buys or building grass roots support. If that is true, that was a very bad strategy and it would verify my suspicions that the campaign payroll is bloated with cronies and hangers-on.

    For fifteen years, the Clintons have been pilloried by the media and this year is no different. The NY Times should be ashamed of itself for allowing Dowd and Rich to write six columns in a row condemning the Clintons. In a way, I am happy to read that Clinton’s campaign was badly run because that is a better reason for her loss than attriubting to the likes of a trash like Maureen Dowd.

    I agree that Clinton should stay in the race but if the day comes that Obama clearly has the most pledged delegates, I would hope that Clinton bows out gracefully.

  • Rather than punish Solis Doyle or raise questions about her fitness to lead, Clinton chose her to manage the presidential campaign for reasons that should now be obvious: above all, Clinton prizes loyalty and discipline, and Solis Doyle demonstrated both traits, if little else.

    Does this remind anyone of another entitled moron????

    Vote Clinton! Get Bush!!!

  • It’s crazy to talk of writing off the Clinton campaign or Hillary dropping out ahead of TX, OH and, depending on how things turn out in those states, PA. We need to let those races go forward or else Clinton fans will be unlikely to accept Obama’s status as winner.
    That said, it seems obvious that Bond is a Clinton supporter. Why else would he flat out reject the idea of caucuses, which appear to benefit Obama?
    If seating the delegates won’t affect the outcome of the nomination, I say go ahead and do it. But if it will, it would be pure suicide for the Democratic Party, which would be cleaved in two overnight. The idea that Clinton could win the nomination through an election in which Obama’s name wasn’t even on the ballot is disenfranchising in the extreme.

  • Also, I think the shape of the two campaigns and the way they have been run is a clear reason to support Obama. We need a candidate who can run a tight ship and so far Obama’s campaign has been run to near perfection. Hillary’s camp, on the other hand, looks disorganized, frantic and unprepared, something we can’t risk in the general election.

  • JimH “But loyal staffers is a good thing and Obama’s campaign is no different.” Absolutley, loyalty is essential. But where Obama’s campaign differs is in the fundamentals, because it’s his strategy and he is in charge. Not beltways consultants with beltway wisdom. That should be the prime concern for any fresh face; it’s what ruined Ned Lamont’s campaign in 2006 in the general. He listened to “them,” got cautious, and lost his edge.

    I’ve been expecting that to happen with Obama. Certainly, at some points, the beltway pros would take over and he would lose his edge. But they haven’t and he won’t.

    Clearly, Hillary was allowing her political handlers to make the major decisions and herself to be swept into office through their expertise. Just the way it worked out for Kerry.

    It saddens be greatly to hear that such an extremely talented woman surrounded herself with sycophants and lived in a bubble. I would never have imagined her doing that. What a waste.

  • #10: But loyal staffers is a good thing and Obama’s campaign is no different.

    Sorry, there’s a difference between loyal incompetent staffers and loyal competent staffers.

  • 1. None of the candidates campaigned in Michigan or Florida due to the party’s ruling regarding the early candidates. Why take your name off the ballot? What would that accomplish, other than disenfranchising voters on those states? -Jim H from Indidana

    That’s what agreeing not to participate meant to all of the other candidates. Michigan knew the rules and chose to break them. Now they must accept the consequences. The voters were not disfranchised by Obama and Edwards and others; they were disfranchised by their state government. I don’t like it one bit that their voices won’t be heard in this primary, but as I have argued so many times before, it is a fact, a done deal, and there is no going back now without having serious disastrous effects on the Party.

    3. Considering the hell the media and Republicans have put the Clinton family through, valuing loyalty and discipline is bad…how? -Jim H

    It isn’t that valuing loyalty is a bad thing; it is valuing it above all else. The case was made the Solis Doyle did a poor job managing Hillary’s Senatorial campaign, begging the question why she was chosen to manage her Presidential campaign? I think it is a fair question.

    Like the author, I too am surprised by the poor management overall of the Clinton campaign. They have gone of message repeatedly. We’ve seen so many different ‘Hillarys,’ sometimes I don’t know what to expect of her. They’ve shrugged their shoulders and written off states I thought they’d do well in, all the while making excuses for their poor performance. This does not reflect well on her message that she would be ready on day one and that she’d manage the office well. I’ve always thought that she had those advantages, but now I’m convinced otherwise.

    Obama is not just a better messenger; he’s a better manager.

  • Loyal staffers, yes. Bubble, no. Seriously, this makes her look like Bush, and credits her collapse to the same character flaw: a lack of empiricism and inquiry.

  • “I think, given Solis Doyle’s ethnic roots, that the Clinton campaign should strongly encourage her to actively campaign for Hillary in Texas.”

    What ethnic roots are you referring to? Is that relevant? Does that mean now that ethnic and racial roots are fair game in the campaign?

    Oh and people, Hillary is not Bush. You sound like fools when you say that.

    And are Dem campaign consultants the reason Ned Lamont lost? Could it have been Obama’s endorsement of Lieberman? You will probably say it was Hillary’s endorsement of Lamont. Considering how much Dems hate Lieberman, I am astonished you all are comfortable with the fact your man campaigned for him.

    Funny how with Obama in the lead his supporters cant let up on the nasty, bitter, belligerent snarky attacks on Clinton. If you are all so smart, if your candidate’s ship is so tight, what is the explanation for the way you are angering half the party with your constant snarky belligerence?

    Mismanagement of her campaign, now THAT is a real issue and it admittedly does not reflect well on her management. Cant you all discuss it without the belligerence? I am telling you, I know lots of HRC supporters and you are really going to have trouble mending the fences here if you keep this up much longer. No one likes a sore winner.

  • I can’t buy the argument that Hillary should continue to fight right up until the bitter end, until it “clear she has no chance at the nomination”. I hope the big upcoming primaries will decide the issue, so that the writing on the wall is clear for everyone to see; the reason for that is that the Republicans have already settled on their candidate, and have shifted the crosshairs to the Democrats. The Democrats, to some extent, are still fighting themselves. One candidate is inexorably expanding their base, and the other is inexorably losing it. One of the crucial issues in this nomination battle was “electability”. How clear does it need to be? One candidate, by every indication thus far, is likely to inspire significantly greater turnout and is consequently more likely to win. No, I’m not fooled by the Republicans that may be voting Democratic in the primary, but will reliably vote Republican in the general. I don’t doubt they exist, but the margins of victory are still wide enough to bury them deep, deep.

    On another note, the comment section here provides considerably better political analysis than any MSM site I’ve seen. Considering this isn’t (I’m guessing) your regular job, you guys are great.

  • The first thing a president does is choose the people to carry out the policies of his or her administration, from the cabinet on down. Clinton chose a campaign manager who didn’t just fail to meet expectations, but crashed and burned. Clinton’s expensive consultants seem to have done nothing but lose her early lead and make a fortune for themselves. I’ve supported Clinton, I’ve given her money, but today Obama looks not only more inspirational but like a much better judge of who can get a huge and difficult job (cleaning up the Bush mess) done.

  • More priceless spin from the Clinton campaign in response to Obama’s recent wins.

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    This, from Mark Penn:

    Clinton’s strategist, Mark Penn, tried to downplay the importance of momentum to Obama, who now has a string of eight consecutive wins. “Winning Democratic primaries is not a qualification for who can win the general election,” he told a conference call with reporters.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/feb/13/hillaryclinton.uselections20082

    – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

    I supposed that LOSING over 50% of the contests to date is PROOF that Hillary can win a general election. We are to believe that the more she loses to Obama, the better her chances of beating McCain and the vast right wing conspiracy in November.

  • I’m a bit wary of drawing sweeping conclusions from these accounts, especially knowing the historic animus toward the Clintons in the DC press corps. I could imagine someone with a different agenda rewriting this same set of facts in a less unflattering way. Also bear in mind that it’s not at all certain Hillary won’t end up as our nominee, so we might want to have a care about trashing her personally.

    If this account is essentially correct, and Hillary Clinton hired and kept an incompetent staffer in an important position, then she’ll pay a price for it, perhaps a pretty steep one. I do think the comparisons to Dubya are overdone; just watching Clinton vs. Dubya speaking in public it’s pretty glaringly obvious that one is a doofus and one emphatically isn’t. Last of all, even if Obama ends up with the nomination, I expect that Hillary will have a long and distinguished career ahead of her. I take no joy in watching the humiliation of someone important to our side of things, nominee or no.

  • I’m not sure how true all this is but the whole loyalty and bubble thing shares the crap out of me. If it’s true, I would be very much against her winning the nod or the election. We do not need more bubbles, mismanagement, or loyalty. We need someone who will take the American populace into consideration. Someone who will restore rule of law and do ANYTHING right for the country. This is a very disappointing thing to read.

  • Sorry, I do think H. Clinton is a strong candidate, albiet one that met a ‘stronger’ one. Still, I will vote for her if she is the nominee over McCain. But, I don’t see how her staying in is really hurting Obama. To me, this is a neck-and-neck horse race. It has held the public, news, and internet’s attention like no other. The two candidates are campaigning, and they’re both tough, so no luster lost there yet for Obama. Would Obama drop out today if he were down 50 delegates????? ‘Whether we’re up, or we’re down……’ yada, yada.

    I would not be opposed to some sort of ‘eat crow’ solution to Florida and Michigan though. Let them schedule and pay for a new primary in 1 month. Extra delegates, even if not a win, may push Obama over the magic number. 2 cents~

  • Now I am curious as to how Solis Doyle spent $30 million on Clinton’s 2006 senate campaign. I bet 999 out of 1,000 voters couldn’t name her opponent. I wonder if Solis Doyle is on the up and up. Maybe she and Clinton’s other cronies thought the well would never run dry and happy days were just around the corner.

  • I am curious about how they spent so much money on the 2006 Senate and the Presidential campaigns too. They don’t seem to have gotten very much for their money, very little in the way of organization and not much in terms of commercial time either. Were the staff that expensive, and if so why?

  • Dear #10 Jim from Indiana, I, #8, James K. Sayre, have only been an Obama supporter only because my first choice, Dennis Kucinich, and my second choice, John Edwards are no longer active candidates for the Democratic nomination for President. Obama is my third choice. Hillary’s march to the crown-fitting and coronation seem to have hit a few snags. I am quite tired on the Bush gangster regime, which was partially based on corner-cutting and a sense of Royal entitlement. We have had enough of Royal Rule in the 21st century, we now need a candidate that represents the people (Obama), not corporations (Hillary).

  • If Hillary Clinton cannot manage her own campaign – what does this say about her running our country. I’ve seen no one raise this question. She doesn’t know where her money is going? She doesn’t know that her campaign manager is inept or doesn’t want to see it? It baffles me considering her past controversies how anyone who professess to be a democrat can vote for this extremely corporate woman (by the way I am a woman).

  • As for the disenfranchised voters in FL and MI..they can pay for another primary, there is plenty of time between the last primary and the convention. That is the ONLY fair and equitable thing to do. Surely Dean and the rest of the DNC realize that.

    As a former Kucinich, then Edwards supporter and now possibly an Obama supporter, I must say watching Hillary’s campaign self destruct has been informative..I think it shows what a lousy a President she would make.

  • Hillary trashing serves no good purpose (nor does Obama trashing, I might add) and makes the people who do it look like juvenile assholes. Pardon my language, but it is true. It is time to behave like adults.

    It is true that Obama seems to have run the smarter campaign at this point, but I am hardly going to write off Clinton yet. She has been in politics for a long long time. Underestemate her chances at your own peril.

    However, if she loses either Ohio or Texas, I believe she SHOULD make a graceful exit for the benefit of the party. On the other hand, if she dominates those two states, then all bets are off and it become a horserace once again.

  • I’m actually having trouble buying this. How could Hillary not have known that her campaign had $40 million or so less than it did? If she did, she’s utterly incompetent, and I’m not buying that. I understand why they may have told people that, but Doyle wasn’t the strategist; from what I understand, she was just managed things but that Penn and others were the spin-doctors. I’m sure Doyle screwed up, but this really sounds like they’re throwing her under the bus to save Hillary. But as it is the Bushies, when the only choices are incompetent versus deception, neither is good.

  • “1. None of the candidates campaigned in Michigan or Florida due to the party’s ruling regarding the early candidates. Why take your name off the ballot? What would that accomplish, other than disenfranchising voters on those states?” Jim H from Indiana

    doubtful responded to this well, but i’ll add something (as a MI voter). She never agreed to take her name off the ballot, only to not count the delegates. To many in MI, this came off as her gaming the system from the start. She claims that there was a vigorous campaign for “uncommitted”, but from what i could tell, that “campaign” only started a few days before the primary. To some degree it was targeted at those who wanted to vote for Obama or Edwards as a way to have their voices heard. But there was another aspect to it: sending a giant middle finger up at the Michigan Democratic Party. That’s why i did it.

    Obviously, i can’t speak for every Michigander. But the general feel is that our unpopular governor and our rotten ass Senator who voted with the Repubs yesterday conspired with HRC to hand her the state. They were talking about getting those delegates seated before the primary even happened. And our gov is angling for an administration position.

    I don’t think HRC wants to redo the primary here; my guess is that it wouldn’t work out so well for her. Seriously, she only beat “uncommitted” by 15% and as far as i know, we are the only state who’s Republican primary had higher turnout than the Democratic. Romney beat HRC in total votes and McCain beat “uncommitted”.

    The final problem is that our primary is open. So do those who voted in the Republican primary get to vote twice? A closed caucus won’t go over very well, unless there is enough time for our many independents to register…and that still doesn’t solve the problem of voting twice.

    I can’t see how we can do it over, and if you think the DNC and MDP looks bad here now…just wait until they say, “we changed our mind on punishing you, because it seems that we actually need you now.” And i will be very upset if those delegates are seated before a nomination is conferred.

  • Ref # 39

    Florida deomcratic party is working out the solution for having a new primary vote in Florida. What I have heard lately is sending out mail in ballots to all voters that voted on Jan 29th and all the names that were on the ballot then will be on it again.
    Most of you don’t know it but millions of Floridians voted on Jan 29th not just because of the primary there was a very important Amendment to the FL constitution reagarding skyrocketing real estate taxes One other thing the FL House, Senate and governship moved up the primary and they are all run by the repuke party. When the speaker of the house was ask about the threat by the DNC of losing all FL delegates he made the comment that thats just how things go. So you can’t lay the blame on dems in FL. In MI it is a different story because the dems control the state and chose to ignore the DNC.

  • One other thing I forget they could have 10 more votes in FL and Hillary would still get 51% just like she got on Jan 29 because most of the dems here in central FL are originally from NY and MI and around Miami the from NYC mostly jewish.

  • Jim,

    Agreed. I think that the two states get lumped together, but the situations are very different. Especially in that your state had all the names on the ballot, and at least you can blame it on the Republicans.

    The turnout thing will be hard to work out here, but it sounds like FL has the possibility to let the candidates campaign and really just do it over. Looks like it will just be us left out in the cold…which is fitting.

  • I guess MI could possibly do the same thing just allowing those that cast votes unless yours was an open primary. FL was closed. I’m just teribally afraid that if FL vote don’t get counted that it will be like a gift to the republicans and again the repubs will have all those dems in FL that made an effort to vote and I’m afraid that they may not bother in Nov to make that effort. Our congressional districts are pretty much a gforgone conclusion unless we get more Mark Foleys come out of the woodworks. In my con dis Ginny Brown Waite won something like 69% to 20% and some to a third party in 06.

  • I do think the comparisons [of Hillary] to Dubya are overdone…

    Perhaps… but here is the fatal overlap:

    George Bush rules from the gut, trusts his instincts, and believes he is right.
    Hillary Clinton rules from her mind, trusts her arguments and believes she is right.
    They both have the same fatal flaw:
    They both know they are right.

    Neither one has shown an inkling that they bring the science of doubt to the table. How do I know Barack is different? Because he has spoken at length about bringing dissenting voices into his Cabinet. He has made it an issue. This is obviously the best way to govern. If you don’t think so… they I encourage you to vote for Hillary or McCain or Jeb or whomever. All of those people have one thing in common: All begin from the same autocratic know-it-all perspective.

    I believe in the power of doubt and the advantages of dissent.
    Weakness is avoiding opposing arguments.

  • Florida and Michigan delegates SHOULD be seated at the convention, and if we are lucky Clinton will win TX, OH and PA and go on to become the Democratic nominee. She will make a far better president than Barry.

    BAC

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