Mark Penn identifies ‘significant’ states

I’ll occasionally wonder if the hostility many Democrats have for Clinton strategist/pollster Mark Penn is excessive, right up until he gives another on-the-record interview and reminds me how he ended up with his reputation.

As I’ve mentioned before, the problem is hardly ever with what Hillary Clinton herself says. She’s sharp, on-message, and disciplined, rarely making the kind of verbal gaffe that hurts her campaign. It’s her surrogates that are the problem.

Here’s Penn, for example, drawing a distinction between states Clinton has won and those Barack Obama has won.

“Could we possibly have a nominee who hasn’t won any of the significant states — outside of Illinois? That raises some serious questions about Sen. Obama.”

This, apparently, wasn’t just a random comment made by accident. Penn is reportedly urging superdelegates to consider the “quality of where the win comes from” when weighing which candidate to support.

This doesn’t raise “serious questions” about Obama; it raises “serious questions” about Penn’s judgment.

What’s the overall tally now? 23 contests to 11, in Obama’s favor? It seems to me, the persuasive Clinton spin is that this isn’t really a state-by-state contest, but rather, a delegate hunt. Individual victories are largely symbolic, given that the candidate who comes in second is still going to pick up delegates.

But that’s not Penn’s argument at all — he prefers to make the case that Obama isn’t winning “significant” states. Clinton has won 11 contests, but they’re more impressive, the argument goes, because she’s winning important states, unlike those Obama victories, which, to borrow Penn’s word, lack “quality” (because they’re caucuses, or “red” states, or have a lot of African Americans, etc.).

As Atrios responded, “I recognize that it’s spin. But it’s really bad spin! And they’re highly paid professional spinners! It’s their job to come up with better spin!”

The truth is, Penn’s argument isn’t just rhetorically foolish, I suspect it’s substantively wrong, too. Penn is arguing that there are “serious questions” about Obama because he hasn’t won “significant” contests against Clinton. Presumably, the “serious questions” have to do with his viability as a general-election candidate.

But this isn’t especially persuasive. Clinton won “significant” states like New York, Massachusetts, and California. And while all of those victories were certainly impressive, is it Penn’s contention that Obama would lose all of them as the Democratic nominee? That Obama is such a poor general-election candidate that he’d lose some of the bluest states in the Union?

If anything, I think Penn’s analysis has it backwards. The question isn’t whether Obama could pick up states in November that Clinton won; the more salient question is whether Clinton could pick up states that Obama won.

The fewer on-the-record interviews Penn gives, the better it will be for the Clinton campaign. He’s really not helping at all.

What a bloated, overpriced fool. Mark Penn is symbolic of the consultant-driven culture on the Dem side that has had us losing for years.

  • Mark Penn is just like Karl Rove, only less electorally-successful and not quite so handsome or charming.

  • reason #5984849848 why i’m not voting for hillary: tools like mark penn and terry mcauliffe running the show.

  • ‘It’s her surrogates that are the problem.’

    Um…maybe…I’m kind of a ‘buck stops here’ kinda guy, though. If HRC’s surrogates are flinging verbal fireballs and she’s not stopping them, She’s a big part of her own problem.

    Qui tacet consentit.

    The usually electorally unimportant state of Indiana votes in May. If her campaign isn’t careful, she could shoot herself in a delegate place…

  • Nail head, meet hammer. Exactly.

    Penn’s starting to sound like the Hitchcock movie “Rope” when Brandon chit chats over dinner about which people are morally superior enough to decide who should be allowed to commit murder. What a co-ink-a-dink, Brandon believes he and his closest friends and his mentor fit the bill over who should be legally allowed to kill others (relax, I won’t spoil the movie for you, haha).

  • As all campaign strategists do, Mark Penn speaks for his boss. As far as I’m concerned, anything that comes out of his mouth might comes out of Clinton’s mouth.

    She could have hired somebody else, but she chose him…a reflection of her character.

  • Mark Penn, fat bastard extraordinaire, ate the Clinton campaign out of house and home, and when they ran out of food he started eating his own head.

    You’d think after Gore and Kerry’s humiliations (to say nothing of Dukakis) they’d do everything possible to kiss the ass of the “flyover states.”

    You’d think wrong.

    Clinton & Clinton + Penn + Wolfson are totally out of touch. Obama is going to hand them their own entrails. Now I’m convinced.

  • As far as I’m concerned, the most significant state in the union by far is Vermont. John McCain was just here about an hour ago. We’ll see who wins here on the Dem side March 4. I’m guessing Obama will crush.

  • Hillary won the Oklahoma primary, even though we are usually considered one of those insignificant fly-over states.

    But Oklahoma has notoriously bad taste in politicians, since we send the likes of Inhofe and Coburn to the Senate.

    Losing in Oklahoma may be a badge of honor for Barak Obama.

  • After L Boom’s comment it’s difficult to say anything about Penn that is any more succinct and on target. But as long as Mr. Penn is associated with the Clinton campaign, I will have less respect for her campaign apparatus as well as Mrs. Clinton’s tolerance for incompetent and destructive staff members. I would expect that campaign staff would accept that their job is to gather more voters under the candidate’s tent rather than turning voters away though obnoxious comments and actions. Heckuva job Mr. Penn.

  • “Could we possibly have a nominee who hasn’t won any of the significant states — outside of Illinois? That raises some serious questions about Sen. Obama.”

    I do wonder how the Clinton campaign came to think this was a good idea. The best counter, and I do hope Obama uses it in Wisconsin, is to say “Hillary Clinton and her campaign don’t think your state is significant.”

    I’ve thought, for some time, the Clinton campaign is in trouble. Too many states have gone uncontested. And there’s been too many weird explanations for why that is. Oh, the caucus system isn’t fair, blah blah blah.

  • The interviewer should have followed up, for the record, by having Penn list the ‘important states’ remaining that have yet to hold primaries.

  • Hillary should have started by firing this A** first after losing Iowa he is definately an idiot. I listened to one of Hillarys radio interviews yesterday and was ask about “superdelegates” directly from Wisc. and she stated that they are free to vote whichever way they decide and there was none of this Mark Penn crap as a matter of fact she said that she hadn’t heard it but would check into it. Campaign idiots say alot of things that don’t necessary mean much Obamas spokesman yesterday said some pretty dumb stuff himself stating that Clinton can’t possiblly catch up in pledged delegates, either he doesn’t know how to count or hes being stupid. If by chance according to my math if Hillary and Obama split TX fairly even and Hillary were to win 65-35 in OH then pledged delegates would be tied again even steven. That would mean roughly 95 each in TX and roughly 100 to 41 in OH the race would be tied again.

  • You know what, the real worry isn’t that this is bad spin, it’s that this might not be spin at all, but rather something Penn and the Clinton camp truly believe. As Joe Biden once said, don’t tell me what you value, show me your budget, and I’ll tell you what you value.

    To wit: they apparently lost many of these states precisely because they diverted their resources away from them towards big states like California, Mass, and NY. What’s more, the Clinton camp, which has been so successful by co-opting local political machines via mayoral endorsements, didn’t have local networks to go after like that because, by and large, during his husband’s administration the Democrats were not building political infrastructure like that in those states. Further, within the states Hillary has decided are significant (again by looking at the amount of resources expended), we see in places like Nevada her relying entirely on the AFSCME to win Clark County for her and getting destroyed everywhere else. We see her doing almost no GOTV in SoCal and just letting the patronage machines do it for her. etc ec.

    And what does that all suggest? That she doesn’t see those predominantly rural states nor less populous rural areas in general as significant. Further, it evinces almost a complete disdain for actually building and expanding Democratic infrastructure for the future, either the GE or beyond. She is quite literally practicing the electoral politics of the “status quo” and “50 +1”, while Obama is quite literally showing what a “new kind of [electoral] politics” might look like by successfully enacting Howard Dean’s infrastructure- and party-building 50-state strategy.

    Which leads me to my last point. There is ample evidence, as noted, that her campaign really thinks that way, at least to a large extent. Which makes me take pause and note that Colorado, Iowa, Missouri and Virginia were all “red” in 2004 and all could easily be blue (and in fact, I would say Obama would be the heavy favorite in 08 to win those states over McCain right now, but Clinton not so much) in the coming election. Those states are worth combined are worth 40 electoral vote, Ohio and Pennsylvania wortha total of 41. What’s more, Obama also could very well put Kansas into play, as he seems right in the mold of a Kathleen Sebelius, has her endorsement, has ties to the state and seems to connect well there. She might not think that’s significant, but throw in there KS’s 6 electoral votes, and I think that’s very significant, and we can see his collection of mid-west states and over-all enormous appeal in the Prairie & Mountain-West regions is very significant.

    It just doesn’t seem to me like the Clinton campaign is trying to break the electoral logic or mold of the past 3 campaigns at all; indeed, it seems more like they’re embracing it with gusto. That alone is reason to vote for Obama. That’s not just a drawback, it’s a fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to build political majorities, and suggests prioritizing personal achievement over building the party. It takes a lot of resources to build a political machine from the ground up in most of these states, and thus far Clinton has shown us no reason to believe she’d do it in the general. Those resources to precious to be wasted in all these vast, neglected swaths of the US that so ready to vote Democratic in the Fall if we just give them a reason; they’re best focused on “significant” states like CA, NY, FL, and OH.

    Yuck.

  • Mark Penn is a walking talking point for Obama. Oh the fun of pointing out to real live voters how insignificant they really are to the woman who really really deserves their vote. Much more than they guy who really really thinks they and their votes count.

    This strategy could also work when speaking to uncommitted voters – if you choose Obama…

    Is Mark Penn channeling Karl Rove?

  • Penn will be by Clinton’s side in the White House for the next 4-8 years. Does anyone really think that’s a good idea?
    He’s run a terrible campaign built on cheap cynicism, and the fact that Hillary can’t function without him tells you all you need to know about her judgement/integrity.

  • Why do I have this nagging feeling that the super delegates are going to self destruct the party. This is going to get ugly and I can see an implosion of the Democratic party if they pick Hillary and all the support Obama has pulled will stay home in November.

    Penn is fueling this non-sense. I am sure the voters of all the unimportant states are very impressed with his dismissal of their vote. This sort of tactic is going to kill the party. Our biggest asset/flaw is we are principled and principles are sometimes more important then the win.

    Stop please, we do not need to disenfranchise our own party.

  • Comparing Rove and Penn? Please don’t.
    Here is a list of Rove’s favorite authors:
    http://www.williamgibsonbooks.com/blog/2008_01_01_archive.asp#5814617391207664098

    And here is a quote from quote from Ezra Klein’s Penn book review:
    http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/3320/trending_towards_inanity/

    All this is in service of his concept that “microtrends” now govern our world: “It takes 1 percent of people making a dedicated choice—contrary to the mainstream’s choice—to create a movement that can change the world,” Penn writes. Why 1 percent? Who knows? Penn doesn’t stick to it himself. Sometimes, it’s one-tenth of one percent, as in his al Qaeda example, or 10 percent, as with lefties, or sometimes it’s the microtrend of—I kid you not—the tens of millions of Americans who moved to the suburbs in the 20th century. Toward the book’s end, Penn says the “magic of the 1 percent threshold” is that “ten people with bazookas can overcome 1,000 people with picket signs, but they can’t overcome 10,000 people with picket signs.” Chew on that one, grasshopper.

    I assure you, as much as Rove deserves condemnation…
    He will bother himself to even skim through Penn’s book.

  • I used to think I would vote for Hillary if she won, but now I am not so sure. They’re now openly pushing for the Florida and Michigan delegates to be counted, despite the rules. From the article:

    The campaign says it will fight to seat Michigan and Florida, where they are now claiming 178 delegates, “whose votes we think should be counted at convention,” Cecil said.

    I’m from a “significant” state, and I am going to help Obama kick her ass. I am very close to saying that I will not vote for her if she’s the nominee.

  • Hey, apparently I am from a significant state! I HAVE ARRIVED!!

    I liked HRC, really, but this stuff of late is over the top. Sorry, kiddies, I don’t give a rats ass what state you are from…YOU ARE SIGNIFICANT! How dare he belittle so many Americans.

    This is a little too Bush-like for my comfort zone. I am completely not digging the vibe.

  • I’d just add that I really hope that when Obama goes on his riff about changing politics, door-by-door, block-by-block, ward-by-ward, etc etc….he throws in a line like “because in this movement for change, we value every vote. Everyone’s voice is significant. Every rural town, ever city, every state in this great nation. We will never write your part of the country off, and even if we eventually lose your area, we will never cut you out of the process.”

    FWIW, though, I can’t imagine this helping Hillary’s national numbers.

  • You know, I bet that no one reading this could name more than ONE “advisor” on the Obama campaign. David Axelrod’s the only one I know.

    What this means is that Obama is running a campaign without “egos”. They seem to be speaking with one voice, too. And it seems like a damn good campaign, at least so far.

    You’ve got all the “egos” and “voices” at Hillary’s campaign, stepping over each other to talk about Hillary, her rivals, etc. Just shut the fuck up, guys.

  • I’m a pro-‘bama but even so, I really, really wish the fat gentleman would stop singing before it’s all over; his gray cells had been overtaken by the fatty ones and his voice is way out of tune…

  • Racer X – I think I’m already there. And if she wins with anything but a true victory (more pledged delegates and votes), I will definitely be there.

  • The company we keep: Mark Penn speaks for HRC with some seriously kool-aided spin. That is not the message of a progressive candidate.

    Really, she is in a lose-lose situation that no amount of spin is going to help, and the more idiots like Penn and her other advisors spin, the more Democratic leaning voters like myself will turn away from her in both the primary and general elections.

    Really really, spin is a major turnoff for progressive voters.

    If the trend continues, and she loses the (non-super) delegate vote to Obama’s momentum, she’s toast.

    If she upsurps the popular vote and grabs the nomination via super delegates, she will lose the general election, and we are all toast.

    There are lots like me who will not vote for dirty tricks, period. Mark my words, Penn: No amount of micromanagement and micromanipulation will turn that tide.

  • “either he doesn’t know how to count or hes being stupid. If by chance according to my math if Hillary and Obama split TX fairly even and Hillary were to win 65-35 in OH then pledged delegates would be tied again even steven. That would mean roughly 95 each in TX and roughly 100 to 41 in OH the race would be tied again.”Jim

    According to CNN Obama leads Clinton in pledged delegates 1096 to 977. That’s a difference of 119 votes.

    Using your math, Clinton gains on Obama (100 – 41 = 59) 59 pledged delegates. That still puts her 60 pledged delegates short.

    Of course this is assuming that Clinton and Obama split all the other delegates between now and Ohio 50/50.

    I’m not saying she can’t catch up in pledged delegates, only that you math doesn’t work out. She’ll need to do better than splitting Texas and Winning in Ohio 65-35.

  • What if everything Obama supporters said were portrayed as if they were said by him, wouldn’t that be something?

    Things like this only tend to piss people off when they hit a soft spot, am I to take it that the Obama crowd is cringing because despite the idiocy of claiming that the smaller states that Obama won are somehow insignificant, that somehow there’s some truth to the meaning behind the words, ie: she is winning where it counts more?

  • Things like this only tend to piss people off when they hit a soft spot

    By this logic, Bush is the most insightful and prescient man of all time, because he pisses us off every day.

    I can’t tell by your statement whether you agree with Penn or not? You say it’s idiocy, and then suggest he’s right, that she’s winning where it counts?

  • What he said was insensitive at best, idiotic is more like it.. yet the reactions it gets reminds me of the reactions to things like “caucuses are not really indicitive of the will of the people”.

    but like I said, if it didn’t ring true, people would just shrug it off. Things like this are being taken into account by the super delegates, and therefore it is relevent, which is why it hurts so much.

  • We’re not shrugging it off because he could be a man in an incredible position of power for the next 8 years. So when he says something that is both idiotic and false, it sends up a red flag, and it makes us both pissed off and worried, because someone idiotic might be in power. Got it?

    Like this latest thing with McCain voting in favor of torture bills despite speaking out against them. That pisses me off. Not because his vote “rings true” for me, but because he has a LOT OF POWER and his unethical moves SCARE ME.

  • McCain voting for torture after previously stating he was emphatically against it only gives ammo to the future democratic nominee to slam him for flip-flopping to appease the wing nuts, so I smiled when I saw that news.

    I have no love for Mark Penn, and don’t appreciate the fact that his words reflect so badly on HRC who herself would not have said this.. I was merely stating that his words have some truth to them.

    Take for example, the number of states HRC has won is significantly less, yet the number of delegates is quite close.

  • Greg,

    Could you explain why you think there is truth to Penn’s words? My interpretation of it is pretty much the same as Steve’s.. the big states Clinton has won are disporportionately “safe” blue states, while Obama is making more meaningful inroads into the delegate-rich purple states.

  • People are angry because it’s incredibly insulting to 11,000,000 + dedicated Democrats (and Dem-leaning Indies) that voted for Obama and the millions who voted for Hillary to. Because it’s damaging to the Democratic party writ large to dismiss 22 states as meaningless. And because, on top of all that, it’s wrong, as I noted above. In what world are Iowa, Colorado, Missouri, and Virginia “insignificant” in the general? They all should be incredibly important battle grounds in the general, previously-red states ready to turn blue. Of course, that’s hard to do if you didn’t campaign there, didn’t build infrastructure there, and then after you got your ass-handed to you noted that those states don’t matter anyway, there votes don’t count and they’re insignificant.

    Is it really so hard to see why this would enrage Democrats precisely because it’s so far from true? And yet so damaging at the same time? What’s difficult about this? People have been pretty clear about why they’re upset, no need to search for hidden motives.

    Oh, and

    What if everything Obama supporters said were portrayed as if they were said by him, wouldn’t that be something?

    Please, lets drop the bullshit here. Need I remind you of the shit-storm Obama had to deal with because comments Axelrod made after Bhutto’s assassination? Guess what: all campaigns are held to task for the comments of their surrogates, and the higher-up the surrogates, the more responsibility is given to the campaign head. Penn is her chief strategist. It’s pretty much impossible to argue in good faith that him making public statements to spin losses is somehow not representative of the Clinton campaign’s message, and as such shouldn’t be accountable to Hillary.

    The buck stops….over there. Hm, where have we heard that before?

  • By electoral college count, the biggest “purple” states are Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michegan, 2 of which have voted and whose voices were attemped to be silenced, yet clearly chose HRC by large margins. The other 2 favor HRC, and their delegates will in fact be seated, and we’ll know soon enough which way they vote.

    I’ll say it again, I don’t agree with the choice of words, and frankly find them to be offensive.. but then again I don’t really care that much for Mark Penn to begin with, and I really hate that this is actually reflecting bad on HRC.. I merely stated that there was some truth to the underlying message, that the states she carried had much more delegates, if not then Obama would have the presumptive nominee status that McCain has, would he not?

    The really offensive thing to me is that Florida had all of the candidates on the ballot, Obama broke the rules and aired commercials across the state, Clinton won BIG, and all I hear from the Obama crowd is that our votes are insignificant.. double standard much?

  • OBAMA WASN’T EVEN ON THE BALLOT IN MICHIGAN. ARE YOU SERIOUSLY HONESTLY IN GOOD FAITH ARGUING THAT IT MADE NO DIFFERENCE IN THE RESULTS?

    Seriously this is like arguing with a fucking Soviet. “Our guy got 100% of the vote!” REALLY I WONDER HOW.

    As for Florida, their delegates were stripped. The people there were TOLD their votes wouldn’t count. To make them count now would be unfair to those who took the party at its WORD and stayed home.

    double standard much?

    What the HELL. Your votes are insignificant, OBAMA did not decide that, his SUPPORTERS did not decide it, THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY DID. We are simply repeating what is FACT. You guys got your delegates stripped, for better or for worse (imo worse!), the other states didn’t. How is that a goddamn double standard?

    If I have two buckets, one of which is full of shit, and the other one is empty, it is not a double standard to say one bucket STINKS and the other DOES NOT.

  • Easy, Tamalak. But I hear you. Arguing for the seating of the FL and MI delegates requires a willing suspension of fair play and Greg knows it.

    If those delegates are seated and put Hillary over the top, there will be serious hell to pay. All of the independents and young people Obama has worked so hard to engage will stay home or go running to McCain come November. The Democratic Party will be ripped in two. Hillary will lose the general election, cost down-ticket candidates their races and be the scourge of the party for the rest of her career.

    If she had so much concern for the FL and MI voters, why didn’t she say so earlier? Oh yeah, because she was busy kissing Iowa, NH, Nevada and SC voters’ asses. Her game is patently transparent and totally cynical. She won’t get my vote if she wins dirty.

  • Tamalak,

    Don’t let Greg’s wishful thinking and disdain for rules and fairness get under your skin. Greg knows deep down that Michigan and Florida delegates won’t be seated and has persisted in fact-free arguments despite having been contested on every single one of his points so many times today I’ve lost count.

    Delusion has taken over so many Clinton supporters lately, it’s almost sad.

  • Tamalak, Florida had more voters turnout for this primary than any other in state history, 1,749,920 voters! That’s 28,658 more than New York!

    I’m sure that the number of people who didn’t bother to vote for their candidate of choice were close, or would you say that ONLY Obama supporters stayed home?

    And, people were not told that their votes would not count, on the contrary we were told that they would count but that the delegates would not be seated..

    Considering that Obama is supposed to have the edge among educated voters, it would be foolish to think that his supporters would be the only ones to believe they should stay home on election day, especially since affluent people are more likely to own homes, and therefore had very good reason to get out and vote for the property tax reform bill which was also on the ballot.

    As for Michegan, people were encouraged by both Obama & Edwards to get out and vote uncommitted, the fact is that they didn’t have enough support, and uncommitted only got 40% of the vote. If they hadn’t encouraged this, then your argument would carry more weight.

  • Obama wasn’t allowed to do the retail politicking in Florida that he does best and the Clintons have a little bit more name recognition than him, so he might as well have not been on the ballot.
    Same with Michigan, where there was no concerted effort to get people to vote uncommitted and how many people are going to go out just to vote uncommitted anyway.
    Greg, I can’t believe you’re seriously making an effort to argue this.

  • What if everything Obama supporters said were portrayed as if they were said by him, wouldn’t that be something?

    I’d agree if Hillary Clinton hadn’t said basically the same thing the day before Mark Penn did.

    “It is highly unlikely we will win Alaska or North Dakota or Idaho or Nebraska,”

    That was her backhanded way of dismissing Obama’s wins. In her mind he doesn’t win important states.

    This is pretty good evidence that Clinton (under advice of Mark Penn) plans to concede a significant number of states to the Republicans before the general election even starts. It’s a dangerous and stupid game during a year when Democrats are making huge inroads into former Republican strongholds. There’s your electability argument right there. I wonder if Obama would like to take up her debate offer, just to ask her what other states are insignificant to her campaign.

  • By electoral college count, the biggest “purple” states are Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michegan

    That’s exactly the logic that got Clinton into this predicament to begin with. She focused solely on the big prizes and Obama picked up delegates in small state after small state, while adding big states of his own, like Illinois and Virginia.

    Hillary Clinton was the heavy favorite to win this thing just a month ago and now she’s in a position where a better than expected showing by Obama in Texas or Ohio can shut down her campaign completely. All he has to do is get within 10 points of her and she’s done.

  • I don’t think that this was a mistake at all. I just shows the cynical, personal goal-driven principals that HRC’s campaign is driven by. The only idiots who think like this are status-quo Washington insiders who have no interest in improving the quality of our government.

    Stick a fork in her.

  • Greg (in postings too numerous to list),

    Just because you’re in Florida, doesn’t mean you can mis-spell “Michigan” with impunity. Once is excusable. But, your personal version — Michegan — repeated over and over, in every posting, only reinforces the idea that Clinton supporters are the uneducated ones.

    God, but I miss Zeigeist and Anne; even though I disagreed with them, at least they wrote well…

  • “By electoral college count, the biggest “purple” states are Florida, Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Michegan, 2 of which have voted and whose voices were attemped to be silenced, yet clearly chose HRC by large margins.”

    In other words, as Penn would have put it, Obama failed to win the “significant” purple states.

    Arguing that Obama campaigned in Florida because he bought national TV ads which were aired in the region is disingenuous. Clinton neglected to defend voters’ rights when the states were originally stripped of their delegates, and began doing so after South Carolina just at the moment Florida was the next state on the calendar.

    Clinton’s comments were reported in the national news media and carried in Florida, and I think there is a teeny chance that that may have affected the voting results. If nothing else, Florida voters could show their lack of pleasure with the DNC by voting for someone who was criticizing them. Pretending that this was not “campaigning in Florida” because she was standing somewhere else when she made those remarks is ridiculous. For that matter, what Clinton did demonstrated how hollow the DNC’s ban on campaigning in the states really was. Most people follow the election on either the internet or national TV anyway.

    If Clinton’s concern for Florida and Michigan voters had an ounce of sincerity about it, she would have complained when they were stripped of their delegates in the first place. For that matter, so would you. In retrospect, it’s obvious that the Democrats should have adopted a compromise similar to what the Republicans did, since their solution avoided the trouble the Democrats are still dealing with over this.

  • Libra, your spell checker is obviously superior, you must be smarter too. I guess I must be illiterate, stupid, and uneducated. Your logic is irrefutable.

    If you would like, I can offer synonyms as well so that you will have no problems understanding the meaning of the wrds regardless of hwo htey are speled.

  • Splitting image, pretending that running “national ads” which you know are going to run in Florida the week prior to the primary is NOT campaigning is itself disingenuous. Why then did we not see those “national ads” prior, or since? Your arguments carry no real weight.

    On the contrary, speaking out on behalf of voters being disenfranchised is not campaigning, I’ll refer you to my other posts, Floridians already had very good reason to go to the primary besides casting their vote for the nominee.

  • My biggest problem is that Hillary could have had any of the political advisors she wanted. And not only did she pick Penn and the others, she’s had them around for years. Either she’s an idiot who’s not listening to them or she agrees with what they have to say. I think it’s got to be the latter. But I don’t see how that’s good for her.

    I wasn’t against her until recently and would still vote for her over McCain, but I’ve always found that the only smart people who fall for BS artists like Penn are other BS artists; and these guys aren’t even good at it. At least Rove and his gang are clever about their spin. This stuff is not only pathetic, but it hurts the campaign. And the fact that Hillary has been with these people for awhile is a big sign that we’re better off with Obama. I don’t think the problem is Hillary’s longtime advisors. When she’s kept them around this long, the problem is Hillary. She’s using the people she agrees with.

  • I think Greg is right. If Obama ran ads, that’s good enough. It’s not like he’s famous for attracting huge crowds to listen to him, or like he’s got some great reputation for wooing said crowds into supporting him due to his awesome speeches. The best Floridians could have done was to see a national campaign spot that Obama might have run, and him showing up in the state and doing what he does everywhere would have made no difference; even if that would have gotten him in the local news, which wouldn’t happen from a national ad campaign.

    That’s why Hillary traveled all the way to my fine state of Texas to campaign; because she could get the same results staying at home and running national ads. Everyone knows that. Politicians get the same results if they just stay at home and run ads.

  • Hillary: The “one-woman solution to the Republican’s problems”

    The Economist says it plain and simple, yet again, in their article on McCain:

    If Democrats were to deprive Mr McCain of the chance of running against Hillary Clinton, that would be the cruellest blow. Mrs Clinton would be a one-woman solution to the Republicans’ problems, a guarantee that money will flow into the party’s coffers and that true-red voters will troop to the polls.

    They said it months ago, in their article on the Clintons:

    If what should be a cakewalk in November turns into a rout, the Democrats will know who to blame.

    Steve

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