When conservatives decide adultery no longer matters

The Washington Post’s Michael Gerson, Bush’s former chief speechwriter and someone who seems to take the issue of politics and morality seriously, devoted his latest column to John McCain’s Vicki Iseman controversy. Not surprisingly, the conservative columnist defends the conservative senator against the charges first raised by the NYT.

Most of the argument is about what one would expect, but I was a little surprised to see Gerson give McCain a pass on the adultery charge, even assuming the allegations are accurate.

Even if the accusation of infidelity were true, this kind of past relationship is hardly disqualifying for high office anymore, given a series of more prurient precedents. An affair between adults is a far cry from President Bill Clinton’s exploitation of an intern, which involved not merely a failure of character but also an abuse of power.

This strikes me as wrong on a few levels, and I’m actually a little surprised Gerson would put it in print. It’s not the conservative line on sexual morality at all.

First, even on the surface, it’s not at all clear that the Lewinsky affair would be qualitatively worse than an Iseman affair (assuming, just for discussion, that the latter actually occurred). The age differences between the participants is similar — though I think McCain’s age gap with Iseman is slightly bigger than Clinton’s with Lewinsky — and everyone was a consenting adult.

What’s more, as Jonathan Chait noted, Lewinsky didn’t report directly to Clinton during her internship, while McCain “had enormous leverage over Iseman. He was the Chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, she was a telecommunications lobbyist. Winning his favor had great potential value for her, and alienating him would have been extremely damaging to her career.”

In the minds of some Republicans, one is serious enough to undo a presidential election while the other, if accurate, is irrelevant?

Second, I’d argue that the Lewinsky comparison itself is flawed. Clinton was a sitting president, while McCain is a presidential candidate. In this sense, the more apt comparison is Iseman to Gennifer Flowers, not Iseman to Lewinsky — candidate accused of adultery to candidate accused of adultery.

And, remind me, what was the response from conservatives and reporters in general in 1992 when a tabloid paid Flowers handsomely to tell her story? As I recall, the phrase “character questions” was used in relation to Clinton approximately 17 million times over the course of the campaign.

To hear Gerson tell it, McCain shouldn’t endure similar questions, at all, precisely because Clinton did. Conservatives argued 18 years ago that a man who would cheat on his wife couldn’t be trusted to be faithful to his country. Conservatives are now prepared to argue that McCain shouldn’t even be asked about adultery?

And third, Gerson’s argument turns conservative standards on morality on their ear. His pitch, in effect, is that McCain’s alleged adultery is irrelevant because others have committed adultery. Except, “everybody does it” is antithetical to the right’s worldview at a fundamental level. Right is right, wrong is wrong, there are clear lines on sexual morality that are not flexible or adaptable depending on who’s breaking them and how.

Just to be clear, I haven’t the foggiest idea if the NYT report, thin as it was, is accurate, or whether McCain’s relationship with Iseman was inappropriate. Maybe we’ll find out one of these days, maybe not. The point, however, is that some conservatives, who led the mob when it was Clinton failing to meet their moral standards, have suddenly decided to define deviancy down.

To borrow a ’90s-era phrase, where’s the outrage?

IOKIYR – duh!

  • Lewinsky didn’t report directly to Clinton during her internship, while McCain “had enormous leverage over Iseman. He was the Chairman of the Senate Commerce Committee, she was a telecommunications lobbyist.

    Whoa. I cannot believe either you OR Chiat would type and stand by that. Bill Clinton was President of the United Freaking States and Monica Lewinski was a 22 year old intern—doesn’t matter who she “reported to.”

    That’s a terrible argument.

  • McCain’s sexual dalliances, if they did in fact occur with Iseman, would in all likelihood be the worst kind of sexual acts a politician can engage in: sex as a quid pro quo for political action. If Iseman boinked McCain for the purpose of exchanging sex for political favors, it would be far worse than anything Clinton did.

  • That’s not excusing McCain, or claiming there was no abuse of power in that instance, but they aren’t even in the same zip code in terms of power disparity.

    Iseman was in her thirties and a professional lobbyist. She made a conscious decision to play an angle with McCain, and probably held a great deal of power in the relationship if there was in fact a flirtatious aspect.

    Monica was 22 years old and fresh out of college being taken advantage of the smoothest most charismatic polician of her (or my) lifetime.

    I don’t even remember what the rest of this post was about this is so jarring to me!

  • Conservatives argued 18 years ago that a man who would cheat on his wife couldn’t be trusted to be faithful to his country. Conservatives are now prepared to argue that McCain shouldn’t even be asked about adultery?

    Which is an especially odd point given the fact that he was known to have committed adultery with multiple mistresses — including Cindy, who later became his second wife — back when he was married to his first wife.

    In 2008, McCain’s been proven to be a serial adulterer. With Clinton in 1992 there was just speculation.

  • In terms of the legal and ethical issues, petorado is right, McCain’s is the worse offense (if what he guesses is true). But in terms of the interpersonal dynamic and morals, Clinton’s actions are far more repugnant. to me

  • Iseman was in her thirties and a professional lobbyist. She made a conscious decision to play an angle with McCain, and probably held a great deal of power in the relationship if there was in fact a flirtatious aspect.

    Iseman was 31 when the alleged relationship began, only nine years older than Lewinsky was when her relationship began with Clinton. In both cases, the women have been portrayed as the pursuer — I seem to remember that Lewinsky flashed her thong string at Clinton, so she’s not exactly the one being seduced there.

    Ugh. That’s all I’m going to talk about Lewinsky for the year. I already feel exhausted by it.

  • What TR (#8) said. Lewinsky went after Bill, not the other way around. She wanted to give him a blow job. He apparently decided that sounded pretty good to him. Either way, it was utterly consensual and there was no quid pro quo. Other than both getting sex.


  • Conservatives argued 18 years ago that a man who would cheat on his wife couldn’t be trusted to be faithful to his country.

    Conservatives politicians were more appreciative of their fundamentalist base 18 years ago. They fed the base the red meat they craved – like the Lewinsky scandal – and in return they received the fundamentalists’ zealous support. Now, after 18 years of faithful servitude by the base, conservative politicians just expect the fundamentalists to reflexively swallow whatever pathetic excuses they sling.

  • “Iseman was 31 when the alleged relationship began, only nine years older than Lewinsky was when her relationship began with Clinton.”

    Well those are 9 pretty important years. There’s a huge difference between the maturity and agency of a 31-year old professional and a 22-year old

    But this has no impact on the larger point. Gerson is literally using the “everyone does it” defense, which is completely nonsensical coming from a conservative Republican. The right jumped up and down during the Lewinsky scandal insisting that that couldn’t possibly be a defense.

    Was Gerson a prominent enough individual back then that he might have commented on the Lewinsky scandal? Would be great to see a quote…

  • Yup Reicht Republicans do have double standards on adultery… and every other issue. They politicize everything in case you haven’t noticed…for instance…little things like justice.

    Sex should never be a political issue except where it shows hypocrisy or disception. So that isn’t the main problem with this story and others that are breaking out like chicken pox about McBush.

    The big problem is corporate footsy in our government: As Howard Dean said in an interview yesterday on National Journal’s radio show On the Air:

    Dean: I have no idea whether the affair story is true or not, and I don’t care. What I do care about is John McCain — and this has been well-documented — is talking all the time about being a reformer and a maverick, and in fact, he has taken thousands of dollars from corporations, ridden on their corporate jets, and then turned around and tried to do favors for them and get projects approved. He has tons of lobbyists on his staff. This is a guy who is very close to the lobbyist community, a guy who has been documented again and again by taking contributions and then doing favors for it. This is not a guy who is a reformer. This is a guy who has been in Washington for 25 years and wants to give us four more years of the same, and I don’t think we need that.

  • Until someone can get across that the GOP is only about money, nothing will change.

    – Money trumps “family values” Values comes into play for others not them.
    – Money trumps “christian values” Chrisian values works until it means you are not making (or taking) money.
    – Money trumps everything. Period.

    And, as far as I am concerned, Lewinsky was a plant. First, there’s the thong thing. Then there’s the blue dress thing (GAG ACK BARF!!) Everyone knew that BC’s dick lead him around and that if it presented itself on a silver platter he was going to partake.

    Having Linda Tripp and the blue dress magically appear? Does anyone really think this wasn’t orchestrated?

  • Uh, Mr Furious?
    What favors was Monica looking for, as opposed to what favors does a lobbiyist want?
    Sound to me liks a groupie verses..uh, what do you call trading intimate female companionship for economic purposes?

    Either way, the hypocracy of the Republican is the main point. The real purpose of the (former) outrage was desire for power, not at all about morality.

  • Lewinsky was not an intern during the “affair” she was a 22 year old adult employee of the White House. Inappropriate, yes, but consenting adults all around.

  • They’re the party of moral outrage, not the party of morality. You expect them to hold their own to the standard they hold others to? That would imply they actually have some personal values, rather than using claimed values as a political weapon against their tribal enemies.

  • Major yawn on the whole subject!

    1. It is old news, find something from this century if you want it to matter.
    2. He is the designated loser, so he gets a pass from Amerika on almost anything.

    Come on people! You act like this is the first time you’ve seen this before.

  • Mr Furious said:
    That’s not excusing McCain, or claiming there was no abuse of power in that instance, but they aren’t even in the same zip code in terms of power disparity.

    Different kind of power though. Bill’s power was persuasive and McCain’s was more coercive.

    Plus Bill was hot. McCain was not.

  • The reason why an attack on McCain about infidelity is bogus is the same reason that an attack on Clinton about infidelity was bogus.

    As far as I am concerned, both are off limits.

    We elect a President to run the executive branch, not to be a religious leader or an icon of sexual mores.

    Talk to your priest, minister or even write to Dear Abby if you want that kind of advice.

  • Look how this thread turned into the Bill and Monica show. Does anyone wonder why 1/2 the party desn’t want Hillary back in thw whitehouse. 8 more years of that, no thanks. It’s not her fault, but it’s the truth.

  • No mystery here. GOP fundamentalists are experiencing what Gould called punctuated equilibrium. While they remain fixated on copulation, their abhorrence has evolved from inter-racial to inter-faith to inter-gender with each leap facilitated by experimentation. They are currently dabbling with the inter-species leap.

  • It is sad that America’s hero succumbs so easily to the amoral , pustulence that has marked the Bush Administration. The Bush /Cheney cabal, is a carbuncle seeping copious amounts of purulent effluvium to those who seek approval by the Bush and Cheney. America’s Congress and judical branch should step far away from this river of infection. Yet it hasn’t. It has wallowed with enthusiasm in the thick tenacious putresence.

  • One set of rules for Republicans, another for Democrats:
    It’s taken years for an indictment of Rick Renzi.
    Don Seligman was railroaded to prison by Rove & Co. in six months.
    Bill Clinton was impeached for lying about a blow job.
    Karl Rove exposed a CIA agent and lied to the FBI but wasn’t even indicted.
    Hillary Clinton would be a bad president because she cackles.
    John McCain would be a good president because he tells his lies on a bus called the Straight Talk Express.

  • Sex is obviously important to Republicans. Proof? MSNBC spent all day yesterday and half of today talking about the NYT story. Though only 6 of 59 paragraphs had anything to do with sex, it was the only focus of the talk shows. I never once heard the term “conflict of interest”.

  • OK, let’s take his argument to heart (conveniently, the party of morals would like to loosen them before a presidential election, but that that is just a coincidence).

    Private affairs are off the table.

    Let’s talk about John McCain’s professional life as a sitting US Senator getting very comfortable with a lobbyist in which he just so happens to chair a committee that said lobbyist is paid to influence.

    Does it really matter if they had sex ??

    The implication of impropriety is great.

  • Plus Bill was hot. McCain was not.

    Now hold on there slick. Different folks have different tastes in men. McCain has never been someone anyone could consider “ugly” on a physical level (YMMV on the spiritual, ethical, moral and intelligence levels, however).

    I mean, Chris Matthews thinks McCain’s teh HOT with his manly odor and his straight-talking swagger. And Bill Clinton is teh NOT. Different people have different tastes.

    Re: Gerson

    His pitch, in effect, is that McCain’s alleged adultery is irrelevant because others have committed adultery

    Hey, if this is the future of politics than I’m all for it. If it ain’t illegal or have a direct ethical impact on their current, past or future jobs then I’m all for it.

    And if McCain had lived by that adage back in ’98 when he was voting to impeach the President for getting a hummer in the Oval Office, I wouldn’t be laughing at the schadenfreude right now.

    But the quid-pro-quo aspects of this, if true, should be the story. Not the hanky-panky. Because even though my irony meter always likes a good tickle, we really can’t afford to have another openly corrupt jackass who thinks the rules don’t apply to him in the Oval Office right now.

  • I’d say the question of whether a president (or an aspiring one) would conduct an affair is relevant, because it exposes a lack of judgement. I for one expect my president to think with the big head, not the little one.

    That said, I was really surprised that the LIBERAL media* let McCain’s star character witness get away with saying what “great character” he had without pointing out the fact that she was one of several mistresses he had back when he was married to his first wife. When you look at her creepy smile, though, it appears that she thinks the irony is extremely amusing.

    * Do a Google (News) on “cindy mccain” “first wife”. You’ll get eleven hits, very few of which mention his affair with Cindy. Here’s one:

    http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article3295472.ece

  • NonyNony said:

    Plus Bill was hot. McCain was not.

    Now hold on there slick. Different folks have different tastes in men. McCain has never been someone anyone could consider “ugly” on a physical level (YMMV on the spiritual, ethical, moral and intelligence levels, however).

    Oh come on the dude is ugly. And sadly, he would have had to make love the way he hugged Bush in the famous picture.

    So long and thanks for all the fish.

  • On February 22nd, 2008 at 2:53 pm, Racer X said:

    That said, I was really surprised that the LIBERAL media* let McCain’s star character witness get away with saying what “great character” he had without pointing out the fact that she was one of several mistresses he had back when he was married to his first wife. When you look at her creepy smile, though, it appears that she thinks the irony is extremely amusing.
    ____________

    It’s not irony. She’s smiling because, out of ALL the mistresses McCain had when he was shopping for a new wife and taking all their bodies out for a test spin…CINDY WAS THE BIG WINNER! Johnnycakes was only cheating on that sitnky OLD wife of his because he didn’t find his SOULMATE yet! And Cindy is IT! She’s something special! Why, ALL the married guys she ever banged told her so! So Johnnnycakes would never do a thing like that to her! Right? RIGHT???

    Yeah, I just got optic nerve damage from my eyes rolling in the back of my head that fast and far too. But I gar-ohn-tee that’s what that smile is all about, pardner

  • NonyNony (30) ” If it ain’t illegal or have a direct ethical impact on their current, past or future jobs then I’m all for it.”

    Part of me agrees with this. But I have known too many people (mostly men) who have done really stupid things because of the complications of improper affairs. Let’s assume Bill Clinton did nothing that ethically impacted on his job. He would still be subject to conflicts of interest, coersion or blackmail, if for no other reason, he’s married and he cares about his reputation.

  • Let’s assume Bill Clinton did nothing that ethically impacted on his job. He would still be subject to conflicts of interest, coersion or blackmail…

    Yup. That’s a point that often gets overlooked (by me also). Like many of these instances, it’s not the “crime” it’s the cover-up. In Bill’s case, he perjured himself before admitting what happened. In other cases, actions that harm or impact others are very likely. Individuals get blackmailed or coerced. Laws are broken to cover stuff up.

    I could care less about the sex. It’s the aftermath.

    Everybody up there jumping all over me that Monica was the aggressor…please. That is NOT a level playing field. And I hold Clinton completely responsible for what ensued.

  • Do we really wish to discourage the conservative punditry dropping the habit of hypocritical holier-than-thou?

    I may not applaud this lowering of expectations, but I’ll offer a golf-clap.

    I think everyone will be happier as long as they don’t start holding the can’t-keep-it-in-their-pants Democrats to a HIGHER standard. (Not to say we mightn’t pull it off.)

  • Even supposing that Iseman had been the aggressor in this story… Are we to believe that a man who resisted torture is unable to resist blandishments from a bimbo? A man without self-control wants to control the country? Give me a break.

  • You know, everyone keeps mentioning about how Bill Clinton “lied under oath.” Apparently he had asked the court to define sex as penetration, under which he did not have sex (using that definition) with Monica Lewinsky.

    It’s just funny that the oligarchy currently in power has done far worse than Bill Clinton ever did, and yet it all seems to come back to the infamous blowjob. Torturing people? Blowjob. Ignoring law? Blowjob. Like a broken record or something.

    Now, can we finally stop talking about Bill’s dick, please?

  • I have a daughter who was Lewinsky’s age when Lewinsky did Bill. 22-24 isn’t a kid. Lewinsky knew exactly what she was doing when she– yes– stalked Bill. My daughter said, “Hey, I would’ve done him too.” Power is an aphrodisiac. If Lewinsky hadn’t been wandering around the halls of the West Wing laying in wait for Clinton, he would have never seen her. Go back and read the stories in the 90’s. McCain and and Iseman were also two adults. McCain and Clinton both have histories of infidelity. The only difference is Clinton stayed married. McCain divorced his wife, 2 years his junior, and married a pretty rich blond 17 years his junior and whose family wealth enabled him to run for public office and use it. Clinton never was hypocritical about what he did. His only problem was that the GOPher establishment was out to get him from day one. McCain is the hypocrite. “Straight talk express,” my ass.

  • Dear Readers,

    Monica Lewinsky WAS NOT AN INTERN when she had her relationhsip with Mr. Clinton. Gershon writes it and you can’t stop repeating it. It is Republican meme. Stop using RNC language. She had been an intern but she was at the time a 22 year old woman who was NOT AN INTERN.

  • Yesterday, Bay Buchannan on CNN said: This is not the Democratic Party, this is a party of values. We assume our candidates have been loyal to their family.

    Let it be known that they are a party of hypocrites. Adultery is evil-doing as long as its a Democrat who does it. Assumptions of vices are only true when they don’t have an (R) at the end of their name. Reagan, Newt, McCain, Giuliani all married their mistresses after divorcing their first wives and some their second wives.

    McCain caved into torture after a few days and knew that the North Vietnamese would accept a false admission because they thought torture only brings out the truth and they didn’t really want the truth. He was against it because of what he knew about it and now he votes for it because it makes some of his party feel safer because we do it. He’s not even faithful to himself.

    As long as he can assume that he is virtuous in spite of the facts, he’s happy. Remember, they don’t want to be reality based.

    Perhaps he does think that this will give him a boost, like that which Clinton received when the public realized that all that Starr had after a couple of years was a soft porn tale of nine BJ’s (only one to climax) over sixteen months and a blue dress for a cost of fifty to seventy million dollars after a lot of promises of revelations of corruption.

    Well, the evidence of corruption is coming out at the beginning (starting with the Keating scandal, already proved) and we are to expect that he got all of those trips in corporate jets and campaign fund-raising and there was no communication of what favors were wanted and, evidently, granted.

  • Adultry really still matters. It matters because it breaks a promise made to annother (unless the partners agreed to an “open” marriage).

    Promises are the glue of society. A man’s promise alone is considered an adequate compensation at law. A person who breaks a promise of any type has no credit. Yes! Credit is not a term that relates only to the ability to borrow money but it’s original {and still current today} meaning relates to honor!

  • Fair is fair. Perhaps the best solution to sort this out is for the government to assign a special prosecutor and spend $55,000,000 to check out the information on the proposed affair, the relationship to a specific lobby, whether favors were done etc, etc. Of course, many other issues will come up during the investigation and can be added to the list later. We should also go back 16 year to check out anything else that does not pass the smell test, or at a minimum would make great copy for the rags.

    Alright now, lets get started.

  • Also, I get really, really, really tired of people saying Clinton committed perjury. They use this legal technical term and make these comments without any knowledge of the definition. Two points on this topic:

    1. To misstate or lie in a deposition does not automatically mean you committed perjury. The misstatement or lie has to be relevant to the case at hand. The judge in the case discussed had already ruled anything relating to Monica was not relevent because if it occurred it was consensual.

    2. As an earlier poster commented, Sex was defined for this deposition as vaginal penetration. As clearly shown from the illegal Linda Tripp audio tapes, that DID NOT HAPPEN. So when Billy said I did not have sexual relations with that woman, he was being accurate. The lawyers could have asked more detailed questions, but did not want to clarify the issue because they had heard the tapes and already knew the truth. They had the statement from Clinton they wanted, and ran with it.

  • Yup Reicht Republicans do have double standards on adultery… and every other issue

    It seems to me that Republicans politicians and pundits have no standards whatsoever. They play politics simply to win, and any pretense of morality or principles is just that – a Machiavelian manipulation of their public image to get votes.

    When you say these things are “antithetical to the right’s worldview,” that may be true of the right-leaning public. But the politician’s worldview is “beat the democrats,” and that’s all.

  • People are funny. All a sitting president has to do is point to a woman and she’s on her knees just because he’s the POTUS? I didn’t realize the office came with that perk.

  • so these guys seem to be comparing to what billie did while in office, smart chaps i must say but keep in mind he was the president of father of all countries

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