Obama and his Army captain contact in Afghanistan

In last night’s Democratic debate in Austin, Barack Obama was responding to a question about his readiness to be commander in chief. After explaining a bit about his approach to military issues, Obama spoke about conditions in Afghanistan for U.S. troops after resources were diverted for combat in Iraq.

“I heard from an Army captain, who was the head of a rifle platoon, supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon. Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24, because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq. And as a consequence, they didn’t have enough ammunition; they didn’t have enough humvees.

‘They were actually capturing Taliban weapons because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief. Now that’s a consequence of bad judgment, and you know, the question is on the critical issues that we face right now who’s going to show the judgment to lead. And I think that on every critical issue that we’ve seen in foreign policy over the last several years — going into Iraq originally, I didn’t just oppose it for the sake of opposing it. I said this is going to distract us from Afghanistan; this is going to fan the flames of anti- American sentiment; this is going to cost us billions of dollars and thousands of lives and overstretch our military, and I was right.”

Today, the right side of the blogosphere is all worked up about Obama’s anecdote, which they insist is impossible, making Obama a liar. (Of all the various right-wing responses, my personal favorite was this one, which repeatedly calls the senator an “Obidiot” — far-right humor is just so droll — before concluding, “Thank you lord for making liberals such simpletons.”)

So, who’s right? As a rule, the phrase “the right side of the blogosphere is all worked up…” should be a dead giveaway.

ABC News’ Jake Tapper did a little legwork and checked Obama’s story out. The campaign put Tapper in touch with the Army captain directly and, not surprisingly, he backed up Obama’s story.

The Army captain, a West Point graduate, did a tour in a hot area of eastern Afghanistan from the Summer of 2003 through Spring 2004.

Prior to deployment the Captain — then a Lieutenant — took command of a rifle platoon at Fort Drum. When he took command, the platoon had 39 members, but — in ones and twos — 15 members of the platoon were re-assigned to other units. He knows of 10 of those 15 for sure who went to Iraq, and he suspects the other five did as well.

The platoon was sent to Afghanistan with 24 men.”We should have deployed with 39,” he told me, “we should have gotten replacements. But we didn’t. And that was pretty consistent across the battalion.”

He adds that maybe a half-dozen of the 15 were replaced by the Fall of 2003, months after they arrived in Afghanistan, but never all 15.

As for the weapons and humvees, there are two distinct periods in this, as he explains — before deployment, and afterwards.

At Fort Drum, in training, “we didn’t have access to heavy weapons or the ammunition for the weapons, or humvees to train before we deployed.” … “We weren’t able to train in the way we needed to train,” he says. When the platoon got to Afghanistan they had three days to learn.

They also didn’t have the humvees they were supposed to have both before deployment and once they were in Afghanistan, the Captain says. “We should have had 4 up-armored humvees,” he said. “We were supposed to. But at most we had three operable humvees, and it was usually just two.”

So what did they do? “To get the rest of the platoon to the fight,” he says, “we would use Toyota Hilux pickup trucks or unarmored flatbed humvees.” Sometimes with sandbags, sometimes without.

Also in Afghanistan they had issues getting parts for their MK-19s and their 50-cals. Getting parts or ammunition for their standard rifles was not a problem.

“It was very difficult to get any parts in theater,” he says, “because parts are prioritized to the theater where they were needed most — so they were going to Iraq not Afghanistan.”

“The purpose of going after the Taliban was not to get their weapons,” he said, but on occasion they used Taliban weapons. Sometimes AK-47s, and they also mounted a Soviet-model DShK (or “Dishka”) on one of their humvees instead of their 50 cal.

Maybe I’m just a simpleton, but it sounds to me like Obama’s anecdote checked out.

Jake Tapper (yes, I know) has done some investigating into this:

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/from-the-fact-3.html

Seems the story is true.

  • 40% under-manned; 50% under-equipped. And McCain thinks we can fight for a thousand years with a military machine this badly broken? Please….

  • Did Obama open himself up to this kind of charge with his lack of experience? Didn’t he bring this on himself? What does this say about Obama’s judgement that he gave the blogs and opening like this?

  • Did Obama open himself up to this kind of charge with his lack of experience? Didn’t he bring this on himself? What does this say about Obama’s judgement that he gave the blogs and opening like this?

    Not a thing.

    More manufactured right wing nonsense.

  • Gave the blogs an opening? Who voting for Obama in the general election is going to read far right blogs?

  • Did anyone read the moronic screed about “fact checking” “Barrack Obama” over at The Jawa Report? My suggestion would be getting good at “spell checking” first.

  • Steve, please don’t link to strata-sphere again. All it does is raise the question, “What’s the difference between a blog and a troll with bandwidth?” I mean, you can only get so much milage out of snarky name-calling and incoherent blather.

  • And what does it say, yet again, about Chris Matthews who knows the truth about this, just as Tapper found out, yet poses this ‘question’ about Obama anyway ?

  • Steve,

    Have you seen the Title of Josh Marshall’s post on this subject? Because it’s genius:

    WINGNUT BRIGADE MOWED DOWN AT OBAMA RIDGE

  • Wait a minute…that’s not the real Chris Matthews! It’s old man memekiller, or old woman, or young, I don’t know, but what I do know is you would’ve gotten away with it, if it weren’t for this meddling doubtful. Haha. Zoiks!

    Seriously, though. Is this all they got? I’ll be laughing all the way to November if this is the best they can come up with.

  • Although I doubt it, I hope that the Chris Matthews of #4 is the ‘Tweety’ himself.

    “Did Obama open himself up to this kind of charge with his lack of experience? Didn’t he bring this on himself? What does this say about Obama’s judgement that he gave the blogs and opening like this?”

    Having said things in a debate that have been verified, Obama must still be open to attack for veracity? Having said things in a debate that have been verified, what the hell did he bring on himself? Having said things in a debate that have been verified, what the hell does this say about his judgement?

    What kind of wierd puke wants to suggest that truthfulness should open Obama to charges of lack of experience & bringing things onto himself & questioning of his judgement? Must be the real Tweety.

  • I’m sure those wingnuts will fact check McCain’s BS with equal vigor, right after they apologize to Obama.


  • What kind of wierd puke wants to suggest that truthfulness should open Obama to charges of lack of experience & bringing things onto himself & questioning of his judgement? Must be the real Tweety.

    Or someone making fun of Tweety and expecting us to get the joke.

    Did I miss out on the free humor-ectomys that were being passed out around here or something? I thought it was funny. Though not as funny as the “Nicholas Kristof” post in the McCain thread a few posts down.

    Anyway – “Right Wing Blogs accuse Dem of lying. Dem supported by facts on the ground.” I think that’s the blog equivalent of “Dog Bits Man” isn’t it?

    Of course, countering their idiocy is important because it makes sure that when Maddow or anyone else who shows up on one of the talking head shows gets bombarded with this piece of stupid they know what the truth is to blast right back. Still – I just assume that the right-wing blogs are factually wrong these days until shown otherwise.

  • Quick! Pull Flush Limpbags out of the bottle of oxycontin! Prop him up by the microphone! Mr. Arse Zit needs to reassure the 101st Keyboardists that the Captain is clearly a phony soldier!

    I also second doubtful @ #13 and add that by October the fRightWing will go a long way towards making the word Republican synonymous with Filthy Racist Bastard Pig.

  • I’m sure those wingnuts will fact check McCain’s BS with equal vigor, right after they apologize to Obama.

    ROTFLOL!

  • Or someone making fun of Tweety and expecting us to get the joke. -NonyNony

    I tried to clue people in on the joke with an, if I may be so bold, equally (if not more) funny comment at 13. 🙂

    But it is Friday, and it’s been a long week. I can certainly understand if people’s funny bones quit working.

  • Like wow, doubtful![13] Old Scoob and I ran and hid in an old rain barrel when we saw Chris Matthews coming out of that creepy mineshaft. But jinkies! You saw through that memekiller’s kooky disguise all along!

  • Or someone making fun of Tweety and expecting us to get the joke. -NonyNony

    It’s not too often that Chris Matthews posts ’round here!

  • It was the same with Edwards’ (I think it was Edwards’) statement about 200 000 homeless vets sleeping under the bridges. The frighties jumped all over it… and then it was proved to be true.

    You’d have thought that, by now, they’d have learnt. Everything said in public is likely to be documented (on YouTube, if not somewhere else), jumped on and checked. And the Dem candidates are perfectly aware of it; none of them are stupid.

    So, if one of them tells a story which sounds preposterous, the assumption should not be “he/she is lying”. If a story sounds preposterous, it’s because it’s true; the frighties DID, indeed, screwed up our country to this extent.

  • I don’t mean to pimp someone else’s blog, but an occasional dose of Jon Swift could keep the ol’ funny bone functioning properly.
    But you know that you nailed it when there are reactions like this.

    Oh, and Bush sucks!

  • NonyNony…typical right wing humor. It zinged right over my head. 🙂

    I used to think Dennis Miller was one of the funniest human beings on earth. Now, I often think *crickets* when I hear him. He turned into a winger and is almost never funny anymore. I don’t bother lisening to him – ever.

    So, Chrissy…nice job of emulating that right wing (anti) humor! I didn’t get it at all, so you did a brilliant job! 😉

  • One of the truly sad things about the Wingnut brigade is, if they’re ever right (and statistically that possibility is not necessarily zero), only true believers will believe them and we of course will understandably think they’re lying.

    These people are mindless drones parroting whatever they expect The Masters want them to parrot. I consider them little better than slaves.

  • Obama is a radical…at best, and his connections to radical Islamic groups is alarming. Today, I found out that he is also connected to two members of the former Weathermen group, i.e. William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn.

    This Captain needs to watch his words more closely around Obama…

  • How can the story be checked out for validity if the “army captain” refuises to give his name?

    Are we suposed to just take Obama and this reporters word for it?

    How many times already have liberals been so quick to trash america and the military that they’ve just bought into stories that later turned out to be untrue?

  • To dragon scholar:

    the only mindless drones are the obama wackos who are ready to put an empty suit with 2 years expereince in the US Senate in the White House.

  • CNN is reporting that the Captain’s unit was not split up, even after showing a quote where he says that 15 of 39 soldiers were reassigned and not replaced. Then they say he was not “scrounging for Taliban weapons” after showing a quote that they had to use Taliban weapon parts to fix their own weapons, since they couldn’t get parts from the Army. Finally they quoted the Captain as saying that he’s still angry about it. However, the placement of this quote makes it look like he’s angry at Obama for lying. Truly amazing!!!

  • Watching the CNN Democratic debate last night, I wondered if Barack Obama had reprised George W. Bush’s infamous “not ready for duty, sir” accusation about the American military’s preparedness. As it turns out, what sounded like Obama hyperbole about the state of overstretched U.S. forces in Iraq and Afghanistan is by and large accurate. And that makes it a far cry from then Governor Bush’s slanderous charge at the 2000 Republican National Convention.

    For the details, see:
    “Obama and Bush’s ‘Not Ready for Duty, Sir’ Fraud.”

  • Chris Matthews, let me get this straight. Sen. Obama should not tell the truth and expose the inept administrations follies because he might give the right reason to complain that he’s telling the truth…

    did i get that right?

  • Bowa @ 32

    …who are ready to put an empty suit…

    Obama is certainly an ‘Empty Suit’…though he reminds me more of a wooden-puppet. His connections to Islamists, crooks, Weathermen’s William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn, Soros, etc. should send up a ‘Red Flag’ to anyone paying attention or caring about the freedoms that America offers for all.

    So far, he has gotten away with just the TRUST ME stuff, by offering “hope and change” (?!?…Er, OK), but his words will have to have more substance before the elections, and he is now being watched a little closer.

    In fact, he is starting to finally interest me a tad, and I may soon start blogging on him. What was his mother really like? How radical is Michelle Obama (apparently her college thesis will offer some clues)? Why does he have so many connections to people who hate America?!? At first, he reminded me of one of those people who want everyone-to-like them; however, now I am not so sure if that is his true motive, and that makes him more interesting.

  • how many years of experience did Abraham Lincoln have again? how about George Washington?

    Washington was the General of the Continental Army that had won the war and made the United States possible.

    And Lincoln was one of the founders of the Republican party who was one of the ideological architects of the abolition movement which remade the union.

    Obama on the other hand is a party hack who has been the most reliable liberal vote in the Senate — he offers change ….but no new ideas — in fact he is just a 1970’s McGovernite wrapped in a a lot of pretty words.

  • Why is it that there is no discussion of how our military is so under equipped, and inadequately trained before deployment? Do we not spend literally trillions of dollars on defense? Is there ANY excuse for a shortage of humvees, armored or not, rifle parts, or ammunition?

    I know the MSM is braindead, but we spend more money than the rest of the world put together supposedly on our military. Why don’t we hear more about this? (That’s a rhetorical question)

  • It’s pretty hilarious that people so readily compare Obama to Lincoln.

    Lincoln wrote his own speeches. And his “themes” were not just a bunch of platitudes and a rehash of the failed social liberal policies of the 1970’s.

  • Seaberry – go find some black helicopters and the people REALLY behind 9/11

    Bowa – the change he’s talking about is not ideas – the change is getting rid of the petty BS that stops good ideas from happening. how many times does he have to say that. It’s very simple but nobody’s been able to figure that out. Reagan spent his years fighting dems to get things done, Bush I too, Clinton the opposite GW the same — when is it going to end. When are we going to say – we’re not moving forward we’re standing still while things still need tending too?

    meanwhile the FITS HITTING THE SHAM

    and when did Republicans start hating democrats. It most certainly was not like that 40 years ago. How can we create a strong nation with a strong middle class if we’re bickering about BS?!?! name calling, and who quoted whom without giving credit,

  • Maybe I’m just a simpleton, but it sounds to me like Obama’s anecdote checked out. Let’s see if it really does.

    I’ve read some of those right-wing blogs and they dispute Obama saying the platoon was led by a captain. For those who were in the military, platoons are almost never led by a captain. However, the Tapper story notes that Obama’s captain was a Lt. when he led that platoon. Ball 1.

    Then there is a claim that Obama said the platoon had been split up, and that just doesn’t occur. Reading Obama’s statement, he doesn’t say that, just that, “I heard from an Army captain, who was the head of a rifle platoon, supposed to have 39 men in a rifle platoon. Ended up being sent to Afghanistan with 24, because 15 of those soldiers had been sent to Iraq.” So he doesn’t say the platoon was split up, and the captain does say to Tapper that those 15 were transferred to other units that were shipped to Iraq. Ball 2.

    Then Obama says, “And as a consequence, they didn’t have enough ammunition; they didn’t have enough humvees.” Obama’s captain says, “At Fort Drum, in training, “we didn’t have access to heavy weapons or the ammunition for the weapons, or humvees to train before we deployed.” … “We weren’t able to train in the way we needed to train,” he says.” Obama seems to be right about the humvees. But, they had enough ammunition in Afghanistan, not at Fort Drum. Later on the captain says they didn’t have spare parts for their special and heavy weapons, but no shortage of ammo for their rifles. Ball 3 and Strike 1.

    Now we get to the kicker.

    Obama says, “‘They were actually capturing Taliban weapons because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.” Let’s repeat one statement that the captain said, “Getting parts or ammunition for their standard rifles was not a problem.” Strike 2. 3 and 2 count. Then the captain said, ““The purpose of going after the Taliban was not to get their weapons,” he said, but on occasion they used Taliban weapons.” Strike 3 and Obama is out of there.

    The idea that Obama would assert soldiers would be capturing Taliban weapons because they weren’t equipped is ludicrous at best, and an outright fabrication at worst. It also displays a huge lack of understanding of combat. It has always been the case that enemy weapons are captured because they are useful, and this case is no different as the captain said. I’ve never been in the military, but I’ve read enough about it over 30 years to know this. But it wasn’t because they weren’t equipped properly, or that this showed some negligence on the part of the current commander in chief. It’s just another smear by the unoriginal Obama.

  • Bowa @ 38

    Washington was the General of the Continental Army that had won the war and made the United States possible.

    And Lincoln was one of the founders of the Republican party who was one of the ideological architects of the abolition movement which remade the union.

    Excellent points, once again! I don’t like to look at a divided America, but the Democratic Party forces such upon Americans in their quest to destroy the Individual freedoms that has made America great. Make no mistake about it, the Democratic Party wants to turn America into a socialistic country where the rights of Individuals are ignored, and where ‘Mob Rule’ is the order-of-the-day…so to speak.

    Looks like this Presidential race has exposed the divide that “African-Americans” still have from the days of slavery, from their struggles of 50’s and 60’s, and want to carry this division of Americans even further as they throw their full-support behind Obama because he is at least half-black. What is the percentage of “African-Americans” and blacks here in America? The Democratic Party has a problem on their hands, huh. After Bill “The First Black President” Clinton, the Democratic Party wanted a white woman for President, but that plan is looking rather weak. They’ll turn to age discrimination next.

    America can’t keep fixing the messes that Democratic Presidents leave behind, and either Hillary or Obama would be the worse disaster of all, i.e. America cannot survive either of them.

  • Rich @ 39

    Why is it that there is no discussion of how our military is so under equipped, and inadequately trained before deployment? Do we not spend literally trillions of dollars on defense? Is there ANY excuse for a shortage of humvees, armored or not, rifle parts, or ammunition?

    Are Americans really this brain-dead, or is half of America just this hateful?!

  • I love these fake wannabe-military poser Repugnicans like “Seaberry”. They think because they read milblogs and jerk off to Soldier of Foirtune they’re qualified to spit shine the boots of real military officers like Murtha or Kerry. It is amusing, but only in a deluded sort of way..

  • Sorta OT, but the definition of a “carpetbagger” comes to mind when thinking of what the Democratic Party is actually about. Their supporters want to forcefully take from others, through the force that only a Government can bring upon Individuals, what is not theirs.

    carpetbagger: 1: a Northerner in the South after the American Civil War usually seeking private gain under the reconstruction governments.

    It might work at first, but is that what we really want?!?

  • melior @ 45

    I love these fake wannabe-military poser Repugnicans like “Seaberry”. They think because they read milblogs and jerk off to Soldier of Foirtune they’re qualified to spit shine the boots of real military officers like Murtha or Kerry. It is amusing, but only in a deluded sort of way..

    Clearly…the “End is Near”.

    It’s moments like this, that I agree with those who think that America needs to be pruned before it’s original intent of Individual Rights can continue…so to speak gently.

  • SteveIL,

    So if the platoon has enough ammo most of the time, that’s “enough ammo”? I disagree. If a platoon is EVER short of ammo, it means somebody didn’t do their job.

    The Captain also said they used a taliban weapon rather than their 50 cal. Obama’s statement was accurate.

    Unlike you, I was in the military, and, while soldiers will pick up and may even use weapons taken from the enemy, that would not include the 50 cal, unless something were seriously wrong in the supply chain.

    Seaberry and Bowa, please get a room. Your ignorance-driven drivel-fest is pathetic.

  • Charles,

    According to my buddy just back from Jalalabad soldiers wouldn’t bother with using enemy weapons. They’d simply write down the serial numbers stamped on them by American distributors and warehouse them again. Later on they’d take the weapons back to the Afghan security forces station where they had been originally distributed before being given/sold to Taliban/Al Qaeda/feuding clan buddies/brothers/acquaintances for money or bribes. We’re still paying people not to blow us up and it still isn’t working.

  • Looks like this Presidential race has exposed the divide that “African-Americans” still have from the days of slavery, from their struggles of 50’s and 60’s, and want to carry this division of Americans even further as they throw their full-support behind Obama because he is at least half-black.

    Yeah that’s true. Because my ancestors asked to be enslaved, whipped, and treated like animals, and then when it happened we got all mad about it and wanted to be free. Hypocrites.

  • dnA @ 51

    Because my ancestors asked to be enslaved, whipped, and treated like animals, and then when it happened we got all mad about it and wanted to be free.

    Got your interest, huh. Good, When was the last time that any of your ancestors were “enslaved”, and when was the last time that any of them were whipped or lynched? No links or proof are needed…just a rough estimate will do.

  • Keori,

    Yeah, what strikes me about this story is that a 50 cal (or equivalent, as the story indicates) is a weapon that would be used by a specialist, with a lot of training — and that person would be highly unlikely to want to use a weapon they hadn’t been trained on, especially in combat — unless they couldn’t get ammo or repairs for the 50.

  • Rich @ 39

    Why is it that there is no discussion of how our military is so under equipped, and inadequately trained before deployment? Do we not spend literally trillions of dollars on defense? Is there ANY excuse for a shortage of humvees, armored or not, rifle parts, or ammunition?

    “Are Americans really this brain-dead, or is half of America just this hateful?!”

    -Seaberry

    What exactly is brain-dead/hateful here?

  • “But, they had enough ammunition in Afghanistan, not at Fort Drum. Later on the captain says they didn’t have spare parts for their special and heavy weapons, but no shortage of ammo for their rifles. Ball 3 and Strike 1.”

    While rifles are essential on the battlefield, so are M-203s, SAWs, M-240s, Mk-19s, .50 calibers, and mortars. Without these, you’ve basically have the same amount of firepower as a police department.

    As an 11Charlie from waaay back, I would hate to get this before a deployment:

    “Well, the bad news is that all of our 81s are deadlined, our SAWs are waiting for new gas regulators, and the M-203s have to go to the line companies.”

    “But the good news is that you guys get two extra bandoliers of 5.56! Aren’t you lucky!!”

  • SteveII says: I’ve never been in the military, but I’ve read enough about it over 30 years to know this.

    And another fRightie coward shows up. So what was it, Hero Boy? You tried to get in but all those minorities were volunteering for the great bennies? You had other priorities?

    Our maybe you were just the standard issue little Right Wing COWARD?????????

    Tenth-witted morons like you are soooooooooooo pathetic.

    I say that as a Vietnam Vet, who happens to be good friends with a diferent US Army Captain, this one returned from Afghanistan only last July, who tells a similar tale because it’s still true.

  • I’m trying to figure out why all the right wing trolls are out in force today. Is there a Cheeto shortage I’m not aware of?

  • I will ignore Mr. Cleaver.

    Charles (#48) and 2Manchu (#58),

    Obama’s entire point is to show his being against Iraq from the beginning, that the U.S. shouldn’t have gone there. And he’s using this story of a former platoon leader to base that on. Based on what the former platoon leader has stated to ABC’s Jake Tapper, I have already indicated that part of what Obama asserted was entirely plausible. But, Obama’s key statement is “They were actually capturing Taliban weapons because it was easier to get Taliban weapons than it was for them to get properly equipped by our current commander in chief.

    As I, and many others, have shown, that is a complete fabrication, and based on the statements of the former platoon leader. Let’s examine it further.

    Obama and the captain said the platoon was down 15 guys went sent to Afghanistan, those 15 transferred to units going to Iraq. No dispute there. Basically that means that the platoon was down a squad or so (two at the most). It is obvious from the captain’s statement that they did have the heavy weapons a platoon has, and trained a squad to use them in Afghanistan. As far as ammunition, quartermaster units at another echelon handle ammo distribution to the various units, including platoons, sent into combat. Now as every soldier from General to private knows, the amount of ammunition distributed for combat purposes has never been anything but a guess at best, since once the shooting starts, soldiers have to be economical with their rounds or they could come up short while in the midst of battle. There is no way anyone can dispute that statement. Even with the captain saying they didn’t have enough parts or ammo for their heavy weapons, there has never been an officer that has ever said they always went into combat with enough ammo, weapons, or men; at some time or another an officer leads his men into combat short-handed. This has been the case throughout the history of warfare. This doesn’t dispute what the captain said, but it doesn’t mean what I said was wrong either, nor am I being disrespectful of the captain. But it does indicate that Obama’s statement, the one I highlighted earlier, is patently false, and shows a complete lack of military understanding. Granted, I’ve never been in the military either, but I do have some understanding of military matters, and apparently it is greater than the man who wants to be the commander in chief. But, I don’t even have to use that; I can base my statement about Obama’s fabrication simply on the statements from the captain that Obama used.

    Again, the whole premise of Obama’s statement is to show how he was against the U.S. going into Iraq in the first place. So what? As I’ve stated, President Bush didn’t send anyone into Iraq without congressional authorization. Therefore, it’s a moot point, and has been ever since certain members of Congress have been using that argument. There have been investigations and investigations and investigations on how President Bush determined that it was the right time to invade Iraq and get Saddam Hussein out of power, and all those investigations haven’t come up with anything that was done in violation of the law, nor will they. The President and Congress made their determination, and sent the troops in. So if Obama wants to continue his ridiculous assertion that he was against the war, fine. Like everything else, it is nothing more than a political assertion, not a legal one. But what it also shows is that we have a completely irresponsible candidate for President who is more willing to play politics while the defenders of the United States are in the middle of a war against those who the federal government has deemed this country’s enemies. And that defines Barack Obama to a tee.

  • “Now as every soldier from General to private knows, the amount of ammunition distributed for combat purposes has never been anything but a guess at best, since once the shooting starts, soldiers have to be economical with their rounds or they could come up short while in the midst of battle.”

    You don’t have to explain that to me. I went into Panama during Just Cause with 600 rounds of 5.56mm. Weighs like a bitch, let me tell you, especially considering all the other stuff I was carrying. We also had two more cases per gun sqaud for backup. So I’m quite aware of the logistical capabilities of our Army.

    “Even with the captain saying they didn’t have enough parts or ammo for their heavy weapons..”

    And this ISN’T a bad thing? Like a said before, you take away the crew served weapons from an infantry unit, all you have is a well-armed police force, up against insurgents with AKMs, heavy machine guns, RPGs, recoiless rifles, rockets, and mortars.

    “…there has never been an officer that has ever said they always went into combat with enough ammo, weapons, or men; at some time or another an officer leads his men into combat short-handed.”

    A platoon that is short 15 soldiers going into combat is a serious issue. I know it’s not uncommon for units to be short bodies when they get deployed. We were usually 2-3 guys short from what our TO&E was supposed to be, but that was for a 27-man mortar platoon. When you’re short 15 guys in a 39-man infantry platoon, that’s a real problem.

  • 2Manchu, you pretty much confirmed what I said. Also according to the captain, they were deployed to Afghanistan in the summer of 2003 (between June and September). He says they added in a half-dozen men to the platoon during the Fall (between September and December). Assuming the captain is a reasonable man, and I wouldn’t think he isn’t, they ended up adding one of those squads within a couple of months. Yes, they are still short men. No argument there.

    He also doesn’t say when he went into combat, whether it was when he was down all 15, or down nine after he got his new additions.

    Sorry, still too many holes in Obama’s statement to take seriously.

  • Well, there’s this quote from CB’s later post of this subject:

    “It would appear that we have another case where the Bush Pentagon, particularly the Office of Public Affairs is forcefully inserting itself into the civilian election process. Earlier today I referenced Barack Obama’s anecdote from Thursday night’s Democratic debate about an Army Captain in Afghanistan who said his unit had had to get from captured Taliban ammunition they weren’t able to get quickly enough through standard Army supply channels. ABCNews’ Jake Tapper talked to the soldier in question, who confirmed the story he’d told Obama. Now NBC News also appears to have confirmed the story by talking to the Army Captain in question.”

    “But Pentagon spokesman Bryan Whitman is telling reporters he doesn’t think it’s true and that of course they can’t confirm it unless the soldier — still on active duty — comes forward to discuss the issue with the Pentagon brass, a step that would surely do wonders for his future in the Army.”

    “I don’t know how far this is going to go. Phillip Carter, the military affairs writer who’s in the reserves and did a tour in Iraq, says that from his own experience in Iraq and discussions with Afghanistan vets who report doing the same thing as the anonymous captain, he finds the story ’eminently believable.’ But this is becoming a pattern in which political appointees at the Bush Pentagon volubly insert themselves into domestic political debate or even election campaigns.”

    Now losing 15 soldiers out of 39 may not sound like a big deal to a civilian. But these are fellow soldiers which whom you trained with, lived with, and depend you life on.
    It’s not simply a case of swapping out personnel like some temp agency.

    How much are you willing to risk your life for someone who has only been in country a week or two?

    As for the ammo situation, there’s a big difference between not having enough rounds because your S-3 FUBARed the METT-T (basically, not planning the mission well enough), and your division support command being short because another theater was getting allocated most the resources from the States.

    So which is it? Did soldiers not have enough rounds because someone in battalion didn’t think they needed enough, or was there not enough ammo in Afghanistan to go around?

  • Even though the story checks out, I also heard the army captain was angry and bitter because he exaggerated and twisted some of the details. Further more he said he ‘heard from an army captain’, making it sound like a recent event, and if the rifle platoon was in Afghanistan from 2003 – 2004, then Obama was not even a US senator at the time, and he did not speak directly to the army captain about this topic, but one of his staffers, although he spoke to the army captain before in more general terms. So even though the story is a real event, the details and nuances are twisted by Obama. He is so desperate to sound like he actually knows something because he is actually being advised and coached beause he is a green inexperienced kid not runninig on his own merits and qualifications.If anyone tried to call him about twisting the nuances of the story he will cry like a spoiled baby and get support from inside his party and pressure on the media. Yeah I am sick of Micky Mouse running for president. The democratic and republican party want him as the nominee, because republicans think he cannot win against McCain, and if he does win then both democrats and republicans have a presidential whipping boy. It would never happen with Hillary! So not a big story or big deal, but in respect of the larger picture it falls into perspective!

  • Charles,

    So good to see you again! Having never manned a crew-served weapon, I cannot personally comment. My history is the checkered past of MI, not combat arms. I will agree with you that I would not want to enter combat trying to use a weapon I had no training on. Using an M-14 to shoot lines for unrep required some extra training for the different handling. I’m just grateful that my brother will be going to Iraq with an M-4 instead of that POS M-16 I qualified on back in 1996. At least, that’s what he said when he called last week. And my buddy in JBad had an M-4. The M-16 is a piece of crap, and I wouldn’t wish that thing on anyone.

  • “Captain Tells NBC Shortages Were in Training, Not Combat”

    How embarrassing for you guys. But I agree with you liberals. It’s Bush’s fault that this Captain has to scrounge Taliban AK-47s for ammo while training in New York.

    Jesse Macbeth, Scott Thomas Beauchamp, and now Captain ?. Don’t challenge us on military matters, my liberal anti-war friends.

  • So, if I tell a lie to the one person,
    and if that person repeats my lie to the public,
    then the NEWS calls me,
    and I repeat the lie to them,
    BINGO
    I have just verified what I said.
    Single unnamed unverified source.

    This one person is telling the stories, that they were short of ammo for stateside training, and that verifies that our troops are short of supplies in combat…IT DOES NOT.

    Just because this ‘captain’ is saying things you want to believe, does not make the ‘captain’s’ statement true.

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