When you get hit with a kitchen sink, it hurts

Hillary Clinton clearly won some impressive victories in Texas, Ohio, and Rhode Island yesterday, but how did she pull it off?

I’ve been thinking the last few days about this piece that ran in the New York Times last Tuesday.

After struggling for months to dent Senator Barack Obama’s candidacy, the campaign of Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton is now unleashing what one Clinton aide called a “kitchen sink” fusillade against Mr. Obama, pursuing five lines of attack since Saturday in hopes of stopping his political momentum.

The effort underscores not only Mrs. Clinton’s recognition that the next round of primaries — in Ohio and Texas on March 4 — are must-win contests for her. It also reflects her advisers’ belief that they can persuade many undecided voters to embrace her at the last minute by finally drawing sharply worded, attention-grabbing contrasts with Mr. Obama.

I was a little skeptical about this strategy. First, Dems at least claim to be turned off by negative campaigning — especially within the party — and Clinton ran the risk of a backlash by launching relentless attacks. Second, I thought the kitchen-sink strategy might be too unfocused. Sometimes, it’s best to focus on a couple key points and hammer away. When one goes on the offensive with 10 areas of attack, the message becomes garbled — the criticism starts to resemble one giant mass of negativity, and people lose track of what it is they’re supposed to be upset about.

But my skepticism proved to be unfounded. The Clinton campaign threw everything they could think of at Obama, and as it turns out, some of it stuck.

I’m sure I’ll miss a few things, but off the top of my head, the attacks included:

* Rezko
* Canada/NAFTA
* Accusations of “plagiarism”
* Obama’s crisis-management abilities at 3 a.m.
* The media has given Obama a break
* Obama’s healthcare mailings are “Karl Rove-style politics” (“Shame on you”)
* Obama’s experience is similar to George W. Bush
* McCain’s experience is preferable to Obama’s
* Pictures of Obama wearing African garb
* Obama didn’t hold holding hearings as chairman of a Senate subcommittee that is in charge of overseeing NATO troops in Afghanistan
* Obama “denounced” Farrakhan, but didn’t “reject” him
* Obama’s message of “hope” is worthy of mockery and derision
* “60 Minutes” — Obama’s not a Muslim “as far as I know”

And those, believe it or not, are just from the last week or so. Some of these were obviously nastier than others, but, in total, it constituted a classic kitchen-sink-style attack. Some of it was bound to have an effect.

Now, I should note that I’ve seen some Obama supporters use this to rationalize major losses yesterday. As the refrain goes, “You won, but only because you took the campaign in an ugly direction.”

That, frankly, sounds a little petty, and it’s not the point I’m trying to emphasize. Rather, Clinton’s kitchen-sink strategy is a clear explanation of what worked and changed the campaign dynamic over the last week. It’s not even a mystery — one can look at the Ohio polls before the attacks began and after. And in Texas, before and after. Obama had narrowed the gap, and Clinton had seen her double-digit leads disappear. Then she launched the no-holds-barred attacks, and for the first time in the entire campaign, Obama’s numbers slipped. It’s hard to call this a coincidence.

This isn’t a value judgment. If you’re an Obama fan, the argument is, “Clinton couldn’t make an affirmative case for her nomination, so she had to tear Obama down. She’ll do anything to win, even if it hurts the party and helps Republicans.” If you’re a Clinton, the argument is, “We played rough, and it worked. This proves that Clinton is a fighter. Besides, if Obama can’t withstand relentless attacks now, he won’t be able to withstand relentless attacks later.”

Who’s right? In all likelihood, both are.

Going forward, there are two angles to keep an eye on. The first is whether Obama, who has been very reluctant to attack Clinton aggressively, sees the results as evidence that negative campaigning works. If trying to focus criticism on the other party is going to lead to primary defeats, Obama may not have a choice but to go after Clinton the way she’s gone after him.

The second is whether Clinton’s kitchen-sink style ends up undermining the party over the long haul.

[I]f Texas and Ohio are any indication, the negativity will take its toll. Exit polls published by CNN showed that barely more than four in 10 Democrats said they would be satisfied no matter which candidate won the nomination.

That kind of malaise is a stark contrast to the kind of universal enthusiasm seen from Democratic voters through early voting in January and much of last month. Even as Clinton got blown out in South Carolina, for example, more than three-quarters of voters said they would be satisfied if she were the nominee.

If the campaign stretches to June or even to a contested convention in August, reuniting the party could be difficult for either candidate.

My hunch is that yesterday’s results will take the campaign in an increasingly ugly direction. Voters sent a message — people respond well to negative attacks. The consequences for the party will likely be discouraging.

Don’t forget getting Bill the hell out of sight. I think that helped her too.

  • Yes, she used almost nothing but negativity to blunt his momentum…

    But that’s all she did, and the question will be — as after NH and Feb 5, how long will it take for Obama to regain his momentum. And will Democrats tolerate 7 weeks of the kitchen sink, instead of just a week.

    No doubt, the Obama campaign lost control of the narrative in the last five days or so… Remains to be seen if they’ll let that happen again.

  • CB, the Clinton campaign also worked the refs: don’t discount how important that was to altering perceptions.

    Going negative works in close races. It worked yesterday, absolutely no question about it.

    The Obama campaign has to find a way to counter these attacks. Otherwise we will go into the Democratic convention with a floor fight on our hands.

  • “My hunch is that yesterday’s results will take the campaign in an increasingly ugly direction. Voters sent a message — people respond well to negative attacks. The consequences for the party will likely be discouraging.damages.

    Wonder how many dems will be left feeling good about both candidates after the convention?

  • 2 questions – I’ve heard that CBC is now saying that the report of Obama’s surrogate reassuring the Canadian embassy about NAFTA stance is not only wrong but a manufactured lie. Yet as far as I know Josh Marshall is still buying it – what’s the truth?

    Is there any quantitative data from exit polls about Publican party members crossing over to vote for Clinton in Ohio and/or Texas? How much should we factor this in in considering the magnitude of her victory in the two races?

  • “Clinton couldn’t make an affirmative case for her nomination, so she had to tear Obama down. She’ll do anything to win, even if it hurts the party and helps Republicans.”

    That pretty much sums it up. Her praise for McCain’s “experience” should be proof enough that she doesn’t care what happens to the party if she’s not the nominee. I can’t wait to hear her asking us Obama people to help her beat the guy whose experience she so highly values.

  • I tend to agree with Josh Marshall on the state of the race: Obama will assuredly keep his lead with the delegate count — the math is irrefutable — but if this remains a fairly close race by the time we get to the convention, the supers will likely throw it to whoever looks like the best hope for the general election. So the real burden here is on Obama to show he can fight back effectively.

    That said, I’m struck at just how short-sighted the Clinton campaign has been. It’s not just the way they’re providing the Republicans with loads of ammo for the general election if Obama is the nominee. Even if she gets the nomination, she’s now framed things in ways that will work against her as well. If she makes this election’s main criteria the number of years a candidate’s spent in Washington and the depth of national security experience, then she’s practically doing McCain’s work for him.

    As much as I think this is a poor plan, I will reiterate what I’ve been saying for the past few weeks — no matter who the Democratic nominee is, that candidate will get my support and my vote. Unlike some, I’m focused on the issues above all else.

  • Obama may have to reply in kind. The Republicans will hit:

    Rezko = not even close to the Hsu scandal

    8 years ago the Clintons were broke, now they are worth over 35 Million. Who gave them the money?

    Tax returns. What’s she hiding?

    Why are you hiding the First Ladies papers since you are taking credit for White House experience?

    After this round of primaries is working the refs still going to work or is it just whining?

    Mark Rich?

    Hugh Rodham?

    Missing hearings on Afghanistan?

    Remind people of the Clinton administration failures.

    Obama has not run a single ad on these issues. If she’s going to run attack ads, he should fight back. If she pulls back, so can he.

  • Stephen raises another good point in #5 about the GOP Hillary vote. Rush has been programming his wingnuts to vote for her, and I definitely saw it happening yesterday. Of course it’s unclear how many wingnuts could actually bring themselves to vote for Hillary (even if it was against a black democrat), but I would say that since there’s a lot of wingnuts in Texas it could have been significant. I also saw very strong turnout for Hillary among the gay community, they seem to think Obama is evil for some reason.

  • Do we really want four or more years of this kind of thinking, i.e. win at all costs? Is this the kind of behavior we want to reward? It’s depressing…

  • sdh (3): CB, the Clinton campaign also worked the refs: don’t discount how important that was to altering perceptions.

    And don’t forget that it only worked because the Media engaged in willful self-flagellation. Can you imagine this strategy working against McCain? Not a chance!!!

  • As someone who started the primary season inclined to like Clinton better than Obama, I’m impressed by the degree to which she has managed to make me despise her. The fact that I’m saying that about either of our candidates does not make me feel good about November–they’ve far outlasted their welcome.

    Still and all, I don’t see what McCain’s got to run on other than racism or sexism. It might work, but this year the position of self-interest is fairly difficult to mistake even for the mouth-breathers.

  • Obama supporters may not be the only ones rationalizing today, Steve. Maybe the media worms turn on Obama, as suggested yesterday by Drum, did the trick. Maybe Republican crossovers, with or without limbaugh, decided to throw a wrench in the works. Given that relatively weak list of sink items you gave, I doubt the kitchen’s culpability.

  • Best advice to Hillary came from W Kristol. Play the politics of fear. It worked. A thank you note would be nice.

  • TR (7) said: no matter who the Democratic nominee is, that candidate will get my support and my vote. Unlike some, I’m focused on the issues above all else.

    But why do you think HRC is focused on the issues? Because she says so?

  • I am now officially sick of the Clintons.

    Sick. Of. Them.

    Their strategy seems to be “If you can’t win, start throwing shit until your opponent looks as bad as you do”. Then when the general election comes, the Republicans will thank you for doing their work for them.

    What a great primary strategy!

  • Michael highlights a good point. “Obama supporters may not be the only ones rationalizing today, Steve. Maybe the media worms turn on Obama, as suggested yesterday by Drum, did the trick.”

    The media loves its horseraces. That is what this is all about you know.

  • Go Hillary!! If the Democrats want to win in November Hillary is their best chance. Obama has had three opportunities to take this contest, and the CAN’T CLOSE THE DEAL. He outspent her 2-1, yet she beat him in OH and TX. He has won a bunch of states that Democrats will never take in a general election. Clinton has won all the states that Democrats MUST win to capture the White House.

    If Obama can’t withstand the scrutiny now, how in the hell will he stand up against the Republican slime machine?? He folded like a cheap suit this week.

    BAC

  • I think she would rather burn down the house before she lets Obama get the keys.

    Right now the only way she can win is to win UGLY. That is it. Period. She can’t catch up in elected delegates. So she’s got to bring him down in electability, get to the convention and twist the arms of party insiders to over turn the will of the popular vote.

    So get ready for more of this stuff. If she wins, she won’t win with honor. But then again, honor and integrity and all that stuff are not something a president should be concerned with. Afterall that’s what we’ve learned from the current president.

  • ‘Kitchen Sink’? Why not say she threw a rolling pin at him? Steve, you naughty little sexist!

  • Part of Obama’s appeal to me has been that he has been saying all along that citizens will need to keep engaged in order for him to bring change to Washington. He is able to get people enthusiastic about supporting this change because he appears to “walk the talk” about being a different politician. I judge that he is trying to take the high road.

    Should he start going negative, I think he will lose a lot of that energy and support. Indeed, the reason I think NAFTA “controversy” was effective is because it allowed Clinton to portray him as “just another politician”; in effect, dragging him down to her level where she could more effectively compete with him on other issues.

    And while many Obama supporters would vote for Clinton if she won the election, I suspect she will only get a fraction of the financial or volunteer support from them that Obama gets. Her style of politics is not what they signed up for. As someone wrote earlier: they would be voting, once again, for the lesser of two evils rather than for someone they wanted.

  • I voted for Obama and hope he wins, but H. Clinton’s wins were impressive. She really is tenacious, determined and relentless. (Is that redundant?) She is a hell of a tough campaigner and I give her credit.

    Her new theme song should be “Save the Last Dance for Me.” You may have flirted with the new, younger and more attractive candidate, but you went home with Hillary.

    I think that the Democrats can benefit from a prolonged primary IF the candidates can focus their criticisms on McBush and the GOPer’s in Congress. Hoepfully they will run as if their Democratic rival would/could be on their ticket. (eternal optimist).

  • She had to show his weaknesses and in some ways she did him a favor. The press has been pretty hands-off with Obama and that isn’t going to help him down the line if he is the nominee. He needs to learn to “take a punch” and come back fighting if he has any chance in November. But … I’m not convinced that will be the scenario anyway.

    I was thinking about some of the people who post here that have such vile, deep seated disrespect for Hillary and insult people like me (47 year old woman with a Ph.D) who support her. What is it? Women have a capacity for working their butts off — doing three jobs at once and yet you fling your general insults at all of us who you consider foolish for supporting her. If you young (and probably old) bucks live a life like she has and are sitting within striking distance of the presidency of the United States … just let someone tell you … you should drop out. She’s had 13.5 million people vote for her. Why should she or us give up?

  • Did I miss the proof that it was a Clinton staffer directed to provide Drudge ‘ONE’ picture of Senator Obama in Somali garb?

    Senator Clinton said she’d win Texas and Ohio. Scary that she did, eh?

    Racer X said: “Stephen raises another good point in #5 about the GOP Hillary vote.”

    And I thought one of Obama’s claims to the nomination was that HE could get Republican votes. Now you complain that Clinton does?

    Sigh. I suppose, in the end, if one of the candidates doesn’t have a good advantage in delegates the only solution is a Clinton/Obama ticket.

    Can you handle that? I know I can.

  • Clinton really shouldn’t have deployed her kitchen sink strategy, given that there’s enough waiting in the wings to pose a serious dent to her credibility. No one will be able to argue that Obama flew to Switzerland to offer support for NAFTA. Hillary did just that—November 1, 1998.

    No one will ever be able to portray Obama as a corporate legal shill. Clinton was—and for that matter, might still be—just that. She fought numerous actions on behalf of corporate interests, against “the little guy.”

    And no one—not even Walton’s ghost—can even begin to think about accusing Obama of being a lawyer on the board of Wal-Mart during the run-up to their pushback against organized labor, fair wages, and responsible benfits packaging. Clinton’s “been there; done that; got the t-shirt.”

    Finally, the one question that can be planted in everyone’s mind over the next 7 weeks is this: How did someone (Hillary, not Bill) who was flat broke and millions in debt in 2001 amass a personal worth of $35 million in seven short years—on the salary of a United States Senator?

    When a “smoke-and-mirrors witch” throws a kitchen sink, it’s probably best to make sure that she’s not standing under a falling house….

  • I was asking myself the same question this morning. I think that the problem with the Obama camp is that they have been playing defense for the last 2 – 3 weeks. They seem to be waiting around for Hillary Clinton and her camp to do something then they react. Barack Obama needs to be more proactive. Take the fight to Hillary.

    Remember Obama’s victory in speech in Houston a couple of weeks ago. It was awful. He sounded like Al Gore or John Kerry as he delivered a policy speech. He needs to stay focused and stay on message. He is bring a big can of change and if you don’t want change you can vote for the other guy.

  • Clinton did run an effective campaign and I am interested in how Obama will respond to it. What Clinton did to Obama is nothing compared to what the GOP will do to either nominee.

    I think Obama can go negative on legitimate issues, in particular Clinton’s tax returns andlibrary and foundation donees. I strongly think the returns should be made public before Clinton is the nominee. For one, I don’t want to hear that the Clintons benefited greatly from the largesse of Middle Eastern Muslims associated with in any way with radical Islamists.

    Money is one issue that CB omitted from his analysis. Obama has not disclosed February’s numbers and Clinton must have spent a bundle last week. Will Clinton’s wins bring in the big bucks? Will Obama’s supporters keep sending in those millions of small donations?

  • BTW, I think Obama’s single biggest mistake was acting like he was the presumptive nominee. He paid too much attention to his own press.

  • Why are today’s comments so full of anti-Clinton remarks?

    Ohio and Texas were states where Clinton had a strong lead until the meme of Obama’s tidal wave started to wear that down. She didn’t build her lead there by going negative. She kept her lead there by fighting off Obama’s attacks on her. She won there by better representing the needs of voters in those states. She stopped Obama’s inevitability claim by showing that he was not going to be better for voters in those states than she was. You all call that going negative. I call it effective campaigning.

    Obama’s strategy of ridiculing her ads didn’t stop her criticism of him from reaching voters, and I believe it built sympathy for her. It was negative but it was not effective because it just wasn’t substantive, so it was perceived as silly and petty.

    I see folks above talking about Limbaugh’s call to voters to back Clinton. That was probably about as effective as O’Reilly’s boycott of all things French. Obama has had the largest number of Republican cross-over voters, including in Ohio. They did not win this election for him because Clinton’s support among traditional Democrats was too strong to overcome that way. Accusing Clinton of the technique Obama has used all along strikes me as ridiculous.

    Obama failed to make strong in-roads among Hispanics because they don’t think a few Mariachis singing his praises are enough to convince them that he truly cares about their demographic. Obama’s premature suggestion that Hillary should quit has been insulting to Clinton’s base, especially women, and I do not find it surprising that they came out for her again.

    Obama needs to rethink his campaign strategy because he cannot win large Democratic states while appealing to Independents and running to the right of Hillary. People want to elect a Democrat, not an all-things-to-all-people bag of empty promises. Obama might win by showing that he is a Democrat and progressive, but I don’t see him doing that if he insists on running against McCain instead of Clinton over the next few months. How insulting is it to the aspirations of Clinton supporters that he in effect says he will ignore her candidacy and focus on the male opponent instead?

    I believe he will not be our nominee in the Fall.

  • Clinton has been under attack from the beginning, the notion that they should start bashing Hillary now is pretty silly. If I were HRC, I’d be saying “bring it on” because she has proven she can survive the scrutiny, Obama has yet to prove that he can.

  • Mike B (12) said: “As someone who started the primary season inclined to like Clinton better than Obama, I’m impressed by the degree to which she has managed to make me despise her. The fact that I’m saying that about either of our candidates does not make me feel good about November–they’ve far outlasted their welcome.”

    ditto. The Penn approach is winning, and I’m really afraid we will all lose as a result. Here’s Maddow and Olberman talking about playing the fear card:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vsesw8cb7eQ

  • Although we may not have wanted to see these issues brought up in the primary, Clinton isn’t doing anything that the GOP won’t do in the general election. The questions I woke up with this morning is, “what could Obama have done differently in Ohio and Texas and will he do it going forward?”

    The Other Ed posted a list of attacks that should be effective against Clinton and McCain has his own weaknesses. Of course, when Obama goes negative it will contribute to the meme that Obama is “just another politician.” I’ve never thought of him as anything other than a politician, but how does Obama combat this stuff and (give HRC a few more headaches) without damaging his “brand identity?”

  • Clinton won the news coverage week big and that more than her campaign’s negative attacks on Obama probably prevented Obama from closing the gap any further in the two big states in which she was always favored. The calendar does not favor her (except for PA and W. VA), and she is unlikely to have quite so favorable a news week again.

    The odds are heavily against Clinton, but she certainly is entitled to stay in this race at least through the North Carolina and Indiana primaries on May 6. The risk is that the campaign gets uglier. I hope Gore, Richardson, Biden, Brazille and other party elders (including some prominent Clinton supporters) send the message that that they will step off the sidelines, if necessary, to prevent the remainder of campaign from being as ugly as the lead-in to Texas and Ohio. If the campaign is more positive and focussed on beating McCain and other Republicans in November, there may be more benefits than risks from an extended campaign.

  • #21 – Chrisbo “Her style of politics is not what they signed up for.”

    Nailed it.

  • I don’t mean to beat a dead horse, especially since no one here seems to believe the horse was ever alive.

    The polls didn’t change too much the last few days in Ohio or Texas but the Intrade numbers changed A LOT

    I wrote on Monday night that Clinton was doing far better.

    Intrade still had Obama as the favorite in Texas but significantly reduced the odds from Sunday through Tuesday morning.

    I think that Intrade again proved to be better than the polls.

    Why don’t people pay attention to Intrade and less to the polls?

  • Glenn Greenwald’s latest posits that the right wing Wurlitzer has more to do with the press recently going more negative on Obama than anything the Clinton campaign might have been able to get them to do. Interesting though how congruent the right wing attacks are with Clinton’s…

  • As others have noted, the only way for Hillary to win the nomination is to beat Obama down so badly that the Supers think he can’t win the general in November and decide to give the nomination to Clinton. I have spent the last eight years hating on the Bushies for doing being all politics all the time. I won’t condone that kind of behavior in my party. If Hillary gets the nomination I don’t intend to vote for her. I have waited eight years for something different from Dubya’s standard operating procedures. I can wait four more.

    When Hillary has a lifelong Democrat who has never voted for a Republican for statewide/national office saying such things then the Party is going to be in shambles if we have to endure a brokered convention.

  • Obama will now change gears from front runner caution to full engagement.
    Hillary is schooling Barack on Rove 101 tactics.
    Barack needs to trust in the force and keep in touch with that which brought him into national attention. Hillary needs to be put down.. where is her foreign experience..where is her tax retun?

  • Clinton didn’t get the huge wins she was supposed to have gotten in Ohio and Texas. Given the polling 2 weeks ago, the squeaker in TX should be an embarrassment. She won Ohio soundly but didn’t break the 60/40 mark.

    I think we may be buying into the horse race mentality here, being willing to see the race extended out of morbid curiosity.

    Clinton won states she was expected to win. No great upset occurred here. It remains to be seen if there was any material (delegate) gain from these victories.

  • “Limbaugh has been actively urging his Texas listeners to cross over and vote for Clinton in that state’s open primary Tuesday, arguing it helps the Republicans if the Democratic race remains unsettled for weeks to come.” – Crooks & Liars

    There was a huge push down here in Texas to keep this race close. Two weeks ago it was vote for Obama because he is the easiest to beat, then when Hillary went negative, they realize this was good for the R’s and pushed to keep it tight.

    This is a nightmare for the party.

    People pleaze, this was how it was suppose to go down. I am already tired of the media acting like this is a huge loss for Obama. It’s either a upset or a loss these days, it never goes as expected, even though yesterday went exactly as expected.

  • By reading your comments about the Republican vote making a difference, it will come as a surprise to most if not all of you that Obama got more Republicans to vote for him than Hillary… HRC won BIG with actual democrats, and slightly beat him out amongst independents.

    From CNN’s exit poll:

    Vote by Party ID Clinton Obama
    Democrat -67% 54% 45%
    Republican -9% 47% 52%
    Independent -24% 49% 48%

  • This is not worthy of you, Steve..

    * Rezko: the Chicago newspapers have been trying for at least two years to get answers to questions about Obama’s relationship with Rezko, including the details of the house purchase, and have been stonewalled by Obama. Why shouldn’t he have to answer the questions?

    * Canada/NAFTA: Austan Goolsbee can take issue with the memo written by the representative who took notes during Goolsbee’s meeting with the official from the Canadian consulate, but the Obama campaign spent three days denying there was ever any meeting. There was a meeting, NAFTA was discussed.

    * Accusations of “plagiarism: whole sections of Deval Patrick speeches made a reprise in Obama’s speeches. Regardless of whether Patrick gave the OK to use them, Obama deceived his supporters, and it took a couple days for the whole story to come out.

    * Obama’s crisis-management abilities at 3 a.m.: This is a legitimate issue, is it not?

    * The media has given Obama a break: Are you seriously suggesting that they have not? There’s a reason those SNL sketches struck a chord with voters.

    * Obama’s healthcare mailings are “Karl Rove-style politics” (”Shame on you”): When a Democratic candidate uses GOP talking points and recycles Harry and Louise to make distorted claims, he should be ashamed. Had this mailer come with McCain’s name on it, ALL Democrats would have been outraged.

    * Obama’s experience is similar to George W. Bush: It isn’t?

    * McCain’s experience is preferable to Obama’s: I don’t think the word “preferable” was used. It was a comparsion based on the length of time and the matters faced.

    * Pictures of Obama wearing African garb: Come on – this was not a Clinton attack and you know it. The picture was all over the RW blogs days before Drudge put it up, and it had been out and available for 2 years. No one has conclusively determined that this was Clinton’s responsibility, and if there were irrefutable proof, it would have been out by now.

    * Obama didn’t hold holding hearings as chairman of a Senate subcommittee that is in charge of overseeing NATO troops in Afghanistan: Well, he didn’t. He was “too busy” by his own explanation. Do you really want to make the case that this was not a legitimate issue? Or is it that Clinton raised it when the media failed to?

    * Obama “denounced” Farrakhan, but didn’t “reject” him: No, he preferred the McCain approach – it isn’t that he likes Farrakhan, it is that Farrakan likes him. That’s so much better, don’t you think?

    * Obama’s message of “hope” is worthy of mockery and derision: When I hear a candidate tell a room full of people that a white light will come down and they will have an epiphany and that will be that they have to vote for Barack – should I take that seriously? Hope is wonderful, but that seems to be all he has.

    * “60 Minutes” — Obama’s not a Muslim “as far as I know”: Kroft asked her at least three times about Obama’s religion, apparently not satisfied with her responses – the last time he asked, she threw in the “as far as I know” probably more as a way to satisfy him that she truly has no information that would suggest otherwise.

    If Obama can’t handle these issues, he is not reasy for The Show.

  • I like a long, dragged out fight. Even an unfair one (who’s to say what’s fair in love or war or politics?). It’s like a thirteen inning baseball game … maybe tedium for the players, but great for us fans. Besides, such a fight will toughen whoever wins, and given Republican ideas of a fair fight, we need a lot of toughening.

    The only thing we all need to keep in mind is the ultimate prize next November. We don’t want a repeat of the 1980 Democratic convention when Ted Kennedy tried to defeat incumbent Carter by trying to get delegates released from their voting commitment. The ultimate winner of their conflict was Ronald Reagan. The ultlimate loser was our nation.

    Voting for McCain or Nader, or not voting at all, will guarantee a Republican president and 9-0 Supreme Court. Remember that above all.

  • As others have noted, the only way for Hillary to win the nomination is to beat Obama down so badly that the Supers think he can’t win the general in November and decide to give the nomination to Clinton.

    The only way for Hillary to win the nomination is to beat Obama down so badly that the Supers think he can’t win the general in November and decide to give the nomination in a race that by then she can’t win either, to Clinton.

    We get another 6-8 swing-states-only campaign, lose narrowly again, and lose a boatload of down-ticket races in the process, thereby eroding the only firewall, and not a strong one to begin with — Congress — between the Republic and the final victory of the Lizard People.

    But Mr. and Mrs. Clinton will be ecstatic. The Party regulars will have had their positions cemented for another election. Former DNC head Howard Dean becomes a poli-sci prof at UVM, And at the end of the day, that’s what really matters, isn’t it. ?

  • Lance (24): And I thought one of Obama’s claims to the nomination was that HE could get Republican votes. Now you complain that Clinton does?

    Obama’s message is that this is one America; stop the divisiveness. Clinton’s is that she can beat the sh*t out of the Republicans. Obama also wasn’t endorsed by Rush and the news networks.

    In 1971, I spent a summer in Bolivia. There had been an attempted coup just before I arrived, and a successful one shortly thereafter. In the meantime, I was warned to watch the news, because the first thing that would happen would be the rebels would take control of the main TV station and newspaper. They were right. I see this as the main threat to democracy in this country. Getting help from SNL, CNN, et. al. is not evidence of fairness or truth.

  • I want to highlight something that’s not discussed very much: words v. action.

    Many have demonstrated over time that one of the most effective actions that we can take to fight the plutocracy and make meaningful change in this country is to file a lawsuit (e.g. Brown v. Board of Ed of Topeka, Roe v. Wade, Miranda v. Arizona, …). In fact, I’m currently the named plaintiff in what is likely to become a class action lawsuit against a major home mortgage company who snuck private mortgage insurance into my interest rate without disclosing it at the time of closing (highly illegal).

    My point? If Hillary Clinton thinks that illegal or improper action took place in the Texas caucuses (and as she has complained…the Iowa and Nevada caucuses), then she shouldn’t go on national television and bitch about it. That’s just words. She should take action.

    I’d encourage her to file suit where she thinks any illegal activity took place for the following reasons:

    a) To improve the democratic process for the benefit of the voters in those states (and to our benefit as well).
    b) To demonstrate that actions matter more than words.
    c) To demonstrate that she’s not just blowing smoke up our asses.

    Of course, she won’t file a complaint in Texas or anywhere else. Why? Precisely because she’s blowing smoke up our asses…again.

  • REMEMBER that Rethugs will NOT actually vote for a democrat in the fall, so don’t try and say how Obama is going to magically win in November because of Republican support. If anything, this actually proves that most republicans think he is actually easier to beat.

  • But why do you think HRC is focused on the issues? Because she says so?

    That’s not what I meant. I said I’m focused on the issues, and I still realize that a vote for Clinton will do more for those issues than a vote for McCain or Nader or whatever pathetic write-in fantasy candidate might do.

    Don’t get me wrong, I think the Clinton campaign is revealing itself to be concerned with its own success to the detriment of the party as a whole and its causes. I don’t like it one bit, but if she winds up being the nominee, I’m not going to let those feelings lead me to sit this one out.

    I’m a Democrat, and I’m voting Democratic.

  • What’s is it with the Clinton’s and “coming”? She’s now “coming” back, again, as a kid no less, and Bill, well, enough said.

    I just want to see them “going” for once. And for all.

  • Dose of Reality @ 43

    Thank you for speaking out in detail against the backlash from Obamaniacs in a clear and concise way.

    CLINTON ’08 – The only way we can win in November!!

  • The Limbaugh strategy worked in Texas. The conservatives pushed Hillary over the top in the primaries. Without the Republican race decided and heavy cross over voting (22% that will not be voting for a Democrat and would be motivated to vote against Hillary in the general) the TX primary would have gone to Obama and the narrative would have been completely different. From the CNN exit polling:

    Somewhat Conservative (15%) 51% Clinton 44% Obama
    Very Conservative (7%) 59% Clinton 41% Obama

    I have been following the exit polling and this is the first and only race I have seen with any (>0%) people who self identified as very conservative voting in the Democratic primary. You are kidding yourself if you think they are doing this for any reason other than to hurt the Democrats chances in November.

  • You know what the single thing I hate most about Hillary’s campaign? The way she has mocked Obama’s message of hope and unity while trying to play on our fears. We deserve better as a country. Maybe Hill’s supporters are so used to living in the culture of fear created by the GOP that they are more afraid of change than the idea of another four years of fear. WAKE UP. Hillary is for Hillary, first and foremost. She is seeking the nomination out of a sense of personal entitlement and lust for power.

    Obama seeks the nomination because he wants to change the direction of this country, repair our relationships with the rest of the world and make things better for the average American. Not only does he genuinely want to make a difference, he wants us to believe that we can all make a difference ourselves.

    “..if one candidate is trying to scare you, and the other one is trying to make you think, if one candidate’s appealing to your fears, and the other one’s appealing to your hopes. You better vote for the person who wants you to think and hope.” – Bill Clinton.

  • TR at #49:

    Thank you. The next president will only be here for 8 years (max), but their policies and COURT APPOINTMENTS will be with us much longer.

  • Of course, this will hurt the Democrats. However, this is no new thing, but a trend. For years, the Democratic Party has forgotten that one must actually organize a base of support, without such a base, one is left at the mercy of “spin.”

    Although some still might want to idealize the former Clinton presidency, it was not an ideal time. The press, using “kitchen sinks” given them by the then new neo-con coalition, effectively tied President Clinton’s hands. He was unable to pass much in the way of progressive/liberal legislation. In fact, what I remember most is that he dismantled the Welfare system in a way that has rightfully been derided by anti-poverty activists. He acceded to deregulation of the media, albeit reluctantly. He gave us millions of dollars for “Abstinence Education,” and he made it more difficult for prisoners to file appeals. In short, Clinton to some degree seemed to abandon the traditional base of the Democratic party – those who challenge racism, those who fight poverty, and progressives. Meanwhile, the conservatives borrowed progressive strategies to mobilize a fierce and loyal grassroots base of their own. Randall Terry led Operation Rescue to dubious successes in Kansas.

    At this point, one would think the Democrats would have gotten the message. They did not. Caravel, Alterman and others demonize Nader for the loss of the 2000 elections. And though I certainly don’t support his actions in Florida, I think that all of this Nader demonization is counterproductive and misses the point. Nader got the 2% he did because the Democrats had abandoned their traditional base, and had instead opted for a top-down organizing strategy that hinged on wooing the center, which was moving farther and farther to the right. As the center kept moving rightwards, the Democrats moved to the right as well, essentially following neo-conservative leadership, instead of offering leadership of their own. Hence, after 9/11, the Democrats had no support or common-sense ideology to fall-back on when the President used the attack to pass that unbelievable travesty called the Patriot Act and when he pushed us into war. And because they offered no leadership, and continue to offer none, their power has waned.

    Unfortunately, for all of her talk of liberalism, Hilllary Clinton still uses the same ineffective organizing stratagems of her predecessors. Not only has she failed to develop an organized grassroots base, she has won by alienating her base. If she has not herself “approved” the spread of ethnic slurs, her campaign has spread them, and has reacted to criticisms of these slurs in a way sure to alienate those who are concerned about racism. Her “kitchen sink” attacks fall back on the “fear-mongering” of the Bush era, again, not a popular memory for much of the base. And she has alienated the youth vote by attacking her opponent’s supporters instead of merely attacking him.

    I’ll admit to being an Obama supporter, but the reason I support Obama is the reason I have appreciated Dean’s leadership as of late. They both get the fact that we need an active grassroots to survive. They also get that the Democratic Party has to represent its grassroots, not just expect compliance. Finally, to some degree, they get that the Democratic “brand” has to stand for something to survive. In the last few years as Glenn Greenwald has so well documented, the Democratic “brand” has stood for obsequiousness in the face of a scandalous misuse of power.

    If Senator Clinton does not recognize the need for true grassroots organization, then she will damage the party. In deriding her grassroots base, she already has.

  • Donna Brazille is rarely right, but she is spot on today:

    “Despite Obama’s impressive victories in February, Clinton’s comeback is based on sowing political seeds of doubt. In order to clinch the nomination, he must anticipate the worst attacks ever. If these attacks are contrasts based on policy differences, there is no need to stop the race or halt the debate. But, if this is more division, more diversion from the issues and more of the same politics of personal destruction, chairman Dean and other should be on standby.”

  • He has won a bunch of states that Democrats will never take in a general election. Clinton has won all the states that Democrats MUST win to capture the White House.

    I keep seeing Clinton backers trot this one out, but this is not only a weak argument, but one that actually highlights one of Obama’s strengths.

    Do you really think that the big blue states will vote Republican in the fall if Hillary isn’t the nominee? Really? California and New York would go Republican?

    I like that Obama does better in the swing states. Unlike Clinton’s campaign which keeps writing off 2/3 of this country, Obama is making an aggressive campaign for a 50-state strategy. He won’t win the reddest states of course, but he can help congressional candidates and state candidates there and also force the GOP to defend its side of the field.

    I think both clinton and Obama havea good shot to win in the fall — assuming they don’t kill each other first — but Clinton’s would be a narrow 50% + 1 victory built on the Kerry states, while Obama has the potential for real coattails.

  • Can the pro-Clintion & pro-Obama people keep your posts to less then a novel type length. We get it, you want your horse to win, but believe me, there nothing you can type that hasn’t been typed a thousand times here.

    Give the rest of us a break and realize your mind numbing post is influencing no one.

  • What it took to beat Obama: concerted, almost 24/7 negative attacks by three career politicians, including one very popular ex-president (Bill, Hill, and McCain), and a manufactured scandal by a foreign government (that they have admitted was all BS).

    I suppose it was a good political move to throw the kitchen sink at him before yesterday’s vote, but the question now is, what next? What are they going to use before April 22? Hillary has publicly stated that she will release her tax returns around April 15th, so if that does not happen, that’s something Obama can hit her hard on.

    In any event, this all shows how strong Obama actually is as a candidate. I mean, could Hillary withstand it if she had the last popular Dem president (assuming it wasn’t Bill, but say, Gore, just for example), Obama, and the republican nominee hitting her at the same time? And wouldn’t Canada’s manufactured scandal have been more effective against her than Obama? There’s still people in Ohio who believe he’s a Muslim, for crying out loud!! So yes, he got spanked yesterday. He still holds the delegate lead, and its rapidly getting to put up or shut up time for all these politicians who are afraid to endorse because they’re not entirely sure Clinton is out yet. Grow a pair and take a stand, you pansies!!! Your party needs you, and you’re failing them!!!

    McCain knows the best place to defeat Obama is in the primaries, while Democrats can be persuaded to go with the weaker candidate. Once Obama is out, he can mop the floor with Hillary on the very same points she’s making against Obama. Hillary is truly doing his work for him, and her short sighted scorched earth politics will eventually burn her up in the conflagration.

  • If Obama can’t handle these issues, he is not reasy for The Show.

    I hear this kind of sentiment from Hillary supporters quite often and it sickens me. They don’t seem to understand that this is a primary and not a general election. In a primary you aren’t suppose to throw the kitchen sink at your opponent when your campaign loses 11 primaries in a row. You are suppose to bow out gracefully for the sake of party unity. There is no way on God’s green Earth I am voting for Hillary in November. The longer this “race” goes on the more and more Democrats will agree with me. Enjoy your victory glow Hillary supporters it won’t last beyond August and you will be directly responsible for President-Elect McCain. You can be sure no one will let you forget it either.

  • I think the main blame goes to the expectations game. Had Obama’s numbers risen more slowly and not dampened right at the end, these same results would be considered a huge victory. These were Hillary’s “firewall” states. She had HUGE leads in both states just recently. It was only because his numbers went up too fast that anyone can considers these momentum-shifting losses. But we did better in both states than we had thought we would do two weeks ago, and that’s not bad. We might even have gained in delegates, so there really isn’t much to complain about. Sure, we were hoping for a knock-out blow, but it’s entirely foolish to pretend that Hillary knocked Obama out. These were her states and he did well.

    Thus said, I think the Limbaugh vote was probably a big factor. For as much as Hillary’s supporters had suggested that such a thing was happening for Obama, we know that Limbaugh told them to vote for Hillary this time. It wouldn’t have taken much to throw this, especially in Texas. But all the same, Hillary didn’t get the delegate shift she was counting on post-Super Tuesday, so again, it was mainly expectations that were crushed; not Obama.

  • He outspent her 2-1, yet she beat him in OH and TX. He has won a bunch of states that Democrats will never take in a general election. Clinton has won all the states that Democrats MUST win to capture the White House.

    This Clinton talking point drives me absolutely nuts because it is so wrong. Clinton has not won “all the states that Democrats MUST win to capture the White House”. She has not won states that the Democrats narrowly won in 2004 like Wisconsin, Washington and MInnesota, She got smoked in all of them. Frankly, it isn’t all that impressive when a Democrat wins New York or California.

    More importantly she has not won most of the states where there is a good possiblity of flipping them from red to blue. That would include Colorado, Virginia, Missouri and Iowa. She did win Nevada and Ohio is a nice win for her. These are the states the Democrats need to win. If they don’t win California or New York, you can forget it. If you think she’ll win Texas you live in fantasyland.

  • Tuesday, March 4, 2008 was Barack Obama’s “vetting by fire.” The only question that needs to be answered not is whether or not he has politically survived this vetting. The only fact that matters is that Clinton worked the morning talk-the-talk shows with hints of Obama “having a place on the ticket—with her at the top of that ticket.”

    Overt generosity? don’t you believe it. She knows that she doesn’t have this thing locked up, she knows that the numbers are still against her, and she knows that there are still states that will not buy into her “kitchen sink.”

    She’s trying to triangulate (read: bribe) her way into an amicable victory. It will not happen….

  • This destruction of the Democratic party works both ways.

    If Clinton is the nominee, do you think that the negative, even nasty comments from the left will help or hurt the Democratic nominee?

    It seems that so many of you are very willing to do what you criticize Clinton for doing.

  • Slightly OT, but if you won’t vote for the person at the top of the ticket, would you vote D the rest of the way down?

  • Dose @43 and Greg @51

    Stop skimming CB’s posts. You’re not good at it.

    If you’re an Obama fan, the argument is, “Clinton couldn’t make an affirmative case for her nomination, so she had to tear Obama down. She’ll do anything to win, even if it hurts the party and helps Republicans.” If you’re a Clinton, the argument is, “We played rough, and it worked. This proves that Clinton is a fighter. Besides, if Obama can’t withstand relentless attacks now, he won’t be able to withstand relentless attacks later.”

    Who’s right? In all likelihood, both are.

    CB agrees with you about Obama’s need to survive the Clinton slime machine if he’s going to stand up to the GOP’s propaganda.

  • She kept her lead there by fighting off Obama’s attacks on her. -Mary

    What attacks?

    Accusing Clinton of the technique Obama has used all along strikes me as ridiculous. -Mary

    Republicans and Independents who vote for Obama aren’t doing so at the behest of a hate filled radio personality. It’s one thing for a candidate to appeal to a broad base of voters; it is entirely another for a conservative leader to voice a desire to skew the Democratic nomination process.

    I think you’re intelligent enough to see the difference.

    Obama’s premature suggestion that Hillary should quit… -Mary

    When did he suggest that?

    …it will come as a surprise to most if not all of you that Obama got more Republicans to vote for him than Hillary… -Greg

    I’m sure Rush’s goons would have identified as Democrats for the exit poll. Remember, their goal is to prolong this campaign as long as possible and end up with Clinton as the nominee.

    REMEMBER that Rethugs will NOT actually vote for a democrat in the fall… -Greg

    Despite the fact that all evidence disagrees with your assumption, you do realize that to win, no matter who the nominee is, they have to have some Independent and Republican support, right?

    Otherwise it’s 2004 all over again, which is what we’ll get with Clinton.

  • doubtful @69 – One thing you’ve got to remember about the Hillary people is that Hillary’s negative statements about Obama aren’t attacks; they’re well-known truths accepted by all rational people. She doesn’t attack; she’s too classy for that. And if Obama defends himself against these well-known truths, that’s an attack on her. Because that’s like calling her an attacking smear-artist or something, which is implicitly sexist.

    As for what you wrote about Republicans voting for Democrats, the 2004 exit polls bare that out. They show that 6% of Republicans voted for Kerry and 11% of Democrats voted for Bush. Had we flipped that number and added an extra percentage point of independents to our column, we would have won. I’m not sure why Hillary people insist that it’s essential for us to win the Democratic Base, but that’s crazy talk. We’ve got the base. We need cross-over vote and we need to not give disheartened Republicans a reason to show up on election day. Hillary would be a big reason for them to show up, and it wouldn’t be to support her.
    http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/states/US/P/00/epolls.0.html

  • It seems to me that Senator Obama intentionally took the risk that the people will choose the more positive alternative. He trusted that if he offers the promise of less divided, more transparent and interactive political process, the people would listen to his ideas – that if he offered a vision of a more unified United States with greater standing in the eyes of the world, that thee people would give his ideas a look – and that if he presented himself in a positive way, without negative, attacking strategies, that the people would investigate his background, read his policies, and choose change over status quo.

    The challenge and opportunity that Senator Obama offers relies heavily on the actions and choices made by the American people. He must have faith that the American people will hear his message and embrace it. And unlike his opponent, his beliefs and campaign style do not allow him the luxury of saying or doing anything to get into office. For Senator Clinton, the ends clearly seem to justify any means. If he goes negative in response to Senator Clinton’s anything-goes “kitchen sink” style of campaigning, it will appear to vindicate Senator Clinton’s atrocious reliance on negative, tear down campaigning and status quo politics.

    Because Senator Obama believes this race is not about him, I think he would rather lose fighting the good fight than to win at any cost. Moreover, if it turns out that way, Americans can never say they didn’t have a real alternative to the divisive, ineffective status quo politics we’ve seen. We are the one’s we’ve been waiting for and we will either choose change or status quo.


  • This destruction of the Democratic party works both ways.

    If Clinton is the nominee, do you think that the negative, even nasty comments from the left will help or hurt the Democratic nominee?

    It seems that so many of you are very willing to do what you criticize Clinton for doing.

    I hope it hurts her. I plan on actively campaigning against her if she wins the nomination. She doesn’t deserve my vote.

  • It appears that most of Obamas supporters just read progressive blogs like Kos and listen to Air America and MoveOn but in the real world when it comes to voting exit polls mean something and Clinton won across the board in OH (8in 10 white voters) maybe you think the people of OH are racist but those are facts. In TX she won across the board. Call it what you want but Hillary did exactly what she needed to do. Politics is not a childs game. Politics is for those that can take a punch.

  • Politics is for those that can take a punch.

    Not from our own team mate. Hillary should have Obama’s back instead she is doing what John McCain would be doing if she weren’t around. I might also add John McCain is not paying for it either. Hillary is giving it to him for free.

  • This is very hard day, but it can be something we look back on with something close to thankfulness. I think Obama is a once-in-a-generation politician. But he IS a politician and politics can be ugly. What’s the one concern I’ve had about Obama all along? That he’s not tough enough to survive the GOP buzz-saw. Hillary did a great job the past couple weeks raising this as a serious issue. Say what you will about her tactics, but she made it clear that Obama hasn’t proven he can fight back hard enough to win and be a successful president. I want to see him come out swinging. There’s a difference between fighting and fighting dirty. As a Dem, I’m sick of getting out-slugged. Maybe Obama’s great talent will be finding a way to land a punch while making it look like a love pat.

  • The notion that this somehow shows that Obama couldn’t withstand the Republican smear machine is more than a little far-fetched. He shouldn’t have to defend himself against it’s equal within the party.

    If this is what we can expect the Democratic party to become, I’ll say no thanks to both parties and (I can’t believe I’m saying this) stay home.

    I’m firmly committed to note vote for Hillary if she should secure the nomination and I know I’m not alone. Be prepared for President McCain.

  • I hope that anyone who writes here takes as much space as necessary to express themselves as well as they can. Personally, I tend to avoid comments sections composed mostly of one-liners, like those at FireDogLake, for example, have become.

    And I hope that most of the people who visit here will take the time to read/understand the comments that are trying to express actual thinking or at least contribute to substantial discussion. For example – I asked a question earlier in this thread about any quantitative evidence of Publicans voting for Clinton in either Texas or Ohio. Some comments appear to be based on my stating that this had happened. In fact, I don’t know yet what evidence is available.

    Others provided some numbers, but there are contradictions between the different data sets. The most suggestive to me was that set based on voters’ self-identification on the degree of their conservatism – that would seem to indicate that Limbaugh had some effect. But can anyone say with any certainty yet that Clinton would have carried Texas – or not – without Limbaugh’s help?

  • according to multiple news sources the “3 am ad” hit its mark with white mommies worried about dark skinned men with towels on their heads coming out from under the bed to hurt little johnny and judy.

    “I love the smell of fear in the morning”, HRC must be saying to herself today.

  • Compare this passage

    [I]f Texas and Ohio are any indication, the negativity will take its toll. Exit polls published by CNN showed that barely more than four in 10 Democrats said they would be satisfied no matter which candidate won the nomination.

    to

    On Super Tuesday, February 5th, 72 percent of Democratic voters across the country said they would be satisfied with Clinton as the Democratic presidential nominee, and 70 percent said the same about Obama. In Ohio and Texas four weeks and a lot of campaigning later, the numbers are virtually unchanged. Seventy-one percent of Ohio voters and 70 percent of Texas voters said they would be satisfied with a Clinton nomination. Sixty-nine percent of Ohioans and 66 percent of Texans said the same of Obama.

    (from cbsnews.com)

    This completely undermines the point that the competition between Obama and Hillary is hurting the Democratic party.

    I think this is another case of using statistics to say what you want to say, and not listening to what they tell you. My guess is that 40% are happy with either candidate, 30% only Obama, and 30% only Hillary (approximately). That allows you to say that only 40% don’t care who the nominee is, but also say that 70% are happy with Obama, and 70% are happy with Hillary. But either way, you only disappoint 30% when you choose a candidate…I wouldn’t call that “undermining the party.”

  • The offer of a Clinton-Obama ticket is clever.

    She offer’s this knowing that he has no reason to accept second billing (considering he will most likely enter the convention with the most delegates). However, he will not offer the alternative (Obama-Clinton) because he can find other running mates that can help in the general election more than she can (some of whom have been discussed in other posts on this site).

    However, she will get to claim that she is trying to “pull together” for the good of the party (conveniently forgetting her comments negatively comparing her party’s front runner to the opposition’s front runner). I suspect people will evaluate how sincere this is based on who they currently support for the nomination.

    In any case, while I don’t think it is sincere, I don’t object to her trying.

  • Politics is not a child’s game. Politics is for those that can take a punch.

    I’m sick of those who think of politics as a game. We’re facing issues about life and death and the quality of life…not just for Americans, but people all over the world…not just our generation, but for generations to come.

    Only ignoramuses and egoists approach politics as a game.

  • Comeback Hill @73 – One of the things that offends me so much about the Hillary side is that blatant lies told to boost your own side. You write that Hillary “won across the board” in Texas. What board are you talking about? They split the white male vote. He won big with black voters, as he always does. He narrowly won big cities. He won young voters. He won educated voters. Overall, he won the same people he’s won in the earlier primaries, as did she. How is this “across the board”? The main difference was that Hispanics overwhelming picked Hillary and they are a sizeable portion of the Democratic vote here.

    The reality is that she narrowly won in Texas because it is heavier in the demographics that already favored her. Obama failed to woo them over, but Hillary failed to win Obama’s base either. That’s not to disparage her narrow victory, but please don’t insult us by pretending this was some sweeping “across the board” win for Hillary. It wasn’t. The numbers were in Hillary’s favor and Obama just wasn’t able to change them.

    And where did you get that “8 in 10” white voters for Hillary in Ohio? The numbers I see show that she only got 65% of white females and 55% of white males. And the only one who mentioned racism as an issue here was you. Please stop insulting us. Nobody’s buying it and you only embarrass yourself.

  • On March 5th, 2008 at 9:46 am, Lance said:

    Racer X said: “Stephen raises another good point in #5 about the GOP Hillary vote.”

    And I thought one of Obama’s claims to the nomination was that HE could get Republican votes. Now you complain that Clinton does?

    Wow. Talk about disengenuous.

    The “GOP Hillary vote” consists of Republicans who were taking advantage of the open voting procedure to keep Hillary in the race as a means of changing the narrative and keeping the Dems fighting viciously against each other, instead of against McCain. They’re free to do so, but it’s much MUCH different than Republicans who are sick of what their party’s become, and vote for Barack because they actually believe he can be an effective leader despite the D in parentheses next to his name. One candidate is inspiring people across both parties, the other is being used by GOP partisan hacks hoping to bring chaos to the Democratic party. Apples, meet oranges.

  • This completely undermines the point that the competition between Obama and Hillary is hurting the Democratic party. -Addison

    No, it doesn’t. It simply shows that the LA Times and CBS are interpreting or pulling from different exit polling data.

    For Texas, CNN’s data says that only 47% of Clinton voters would be satisfied if either wins and only 51% of Obama supporters would be satisfied if either one.

    There is a trend among exit polls, and the CBS story you cite is an anomaly. Can you find any other examples supporting the claim that non-preferred candidate support has stayed level at around 70%?

    The negativity is harming the Democratic party and hurting our chances in November. Obama supporters a growing weary of Clinton’s negative attacks and Clinton supporters are buying her bullshit*, hence the decline in both groups.

    *If anyone needs a list of said bullshit, please RTFA.

  • 8 years ago the Clintons were broke, now they are worth over 35 Million. Who gave them the money?

    Tax returns. What’s she hiding?

    Why are you hiding the First Ladies papers since you are taking credit for White House experience?

    Time to hit them on every lie they’ve ever told – which is everything they ever said. If she wants to destroy the party, it’s time to point out that the Clinton’s aren’t Democrats.

  • The offer of a Clinton-Obama ticket – as if The Empress is in a position to offer anyting to anyone other than that gang of thieves and con artists (Penn, McAuliffe, Ickes, etc.) Clintons always seem to attract – is the height of her gall. And of course the morons of the MSM listen to her bullshit as if it actually means something, since she is an Imporant Person.

    The Clintons can go to hell.

  • Obama has not disclosed February’s numbers and Clinton must have spent a bundle last week. Will Clinton’s wins bring in the big bucks? Will Obama’s supporters keep sending in those millions of small donations?

    Simple answers to simple questions:

    1. Obama brought in $50 million, The Empress brought in $30 million.

    2. Yes.

  • Comeback Hill #73 said, ‘Clinton won across the board in OH (8in 10 white voters) maybe you think the people of OH are racist but those are facts’

    Maybe it is YOU who thinks that America is racist and wont elect Obama or at least you are willing to use the argument to promote HRC. Are you saying that all those white Ohioans will vote for McBush over Obama because of race? Highly unlikely, I’d say.

  • Will Obama’s supporters keep sending in those millions of small donations?

    Thanks for the reminder, palmbeach. I just gave him a small contribution for the first time. I had hoped he’d do better last night and knock Hillary out of the race without my dough, as I don’t have a lot to give, but had decided to give him alittle if he needed it. In all the hubbub, I almost forgot.

    All you Obama people should give him at least $10. It’ll do much more than anything you write here.

  • Steve @ 89

    It is housing PRICES that are falling, not houses…

    Besides, isn’t she already taking the low road to the “white” house.

    😉

  • This destruction of the Democratic party works both ways.

    If Clinton is the nominee, do you think that the negative, even nasty comments from the left will help or hurt the Democratic nominee?

    It seems that so many of you are very willing to do what you criticize Clinton for doing.

    Average citizens criticizing a candidate in blog comments is pretty clearly *not the same* as one candidate saying the republican opponent is actually preferable to your democratic opponent.

  • Come now, short fuse, that’s not exactly what Hillary said. She was just pointing out that McCain has more experience than Obama, which she insists is one of the most important attributes in a presidential candidate. Which means that she also supports McCain over herself because he has more experience than she does. That’s very fair-minded of her.

    As for the fact that McCain and the Republicans are using the same “empty suit” charge against Obama that Hillary keeps making, well…are your children safe with Obama? I think not.

  • Yes , yes, yes…great article.
    It is time to go negative on the Clintons! They want to destroy all hope, well be my guest:

    For starters:
    1) google 2 words “scandal” and “Clinton” – you will get more information than you need!
    2) read: Begrudging His Bedazzling
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/27/opinion/27dowd.html?em&ex=1204347600&en=61905f98cb3a44
    4f&ei=5087%0A
    3) read: After Mining Deal, Financier Donated to Clinton
    http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/31/us/politics/31donor.html?ex=1
    4) read: Bill Clinton May Get Payout of $20 Million
    http://online.wsj.com/public/article/SB120097424021905843.html?mod=blog
    5) read: Saudis, Arabs Funneled Millions to President Clinton’s Library
    http://www.nysun.com/article/5137

    THEN FORWARD THIS TO ALL OF YOUR family & friends and coworkers…
    Good luck. David

    PS: I am pissed and so are the millions of voters that have lent support and hope to the Obama movement

  • 85. doubtful said

    There is a trend among exit polls, and the CBS story you cite is an anomaly. Can you find any other examples supporting the claim that non-preferred candidate support has stayed level at around 70%?

    From dailykos (permalinks seem to be broken right now…article is “The Morning After”)

    The exit polls from TX say (77%) the recent debates were important, both candidates inspire (Clinton 59%, Obama 64%), the economy is the most important issue (50% and not, btw, a McCain strength), voters satisfied with either candidate in usual numbers (only 4% dissatisfied with both), and late voters broke for Hillary (within 3 days 61-38%).

  • Dose of Reality said,
    “Obama’s message of “hope” is worthy of mockery and derision: When I hear a candidate tell a room full of people that a white light will come down and they will have an epiphany and that will be that they have to vote for Barack”

    Unless Dose wants to back up such with any proof of Obama saying those words, I will just have to read Dose of Reality’s words as a Dose of Spin’s words. I think Dose must be remembering Hillary’s words in her mockery speechifying.

  • It’s almost comical to me to listen to Obama followers blowing gaskets at what they perceive to be “negativity” in this campaign. Clearly most of them are youngsters, compared to those of us who have been around the political block a few times.

    It is also instructive that Obama seems bewildered that his “poetry” — coined by former NY governor, Mario Cuomo — isn’t working. As I have posted elsewhere (salon.com), the deciding factors in this year’s primaries/caucuses are “kitchen table” issues: the economy, jobs, the price of gasoline, the housing and mortgage crisis, health care costs. Clinton not only understands this dynamic; she knows how to address these issues. She is a fighter. As anybody who has been around politics long enough knows, Democrats love fighters. They want a fighter in their corner and Sen. Clinton delivers on that.

    If anything, I’d suggest to Obama and his followers that it might be good to take a hard look at the blue-collar Democrats, all those “elderly” voters, and all those women who support Hillary Clinton. Real-life experience is something these voters understand, which is why they support Hillary Clinton.

    Negativity? It’s reality, baby, reality.

  • As anybody who has been around politics long enough knows, Democrats love fighters. They want a fighter in their corner and Sen. Clinton delivers on that.

    Yes, and anyone who has been paying attention to politics long enough knows that Clintons only fight for Clintons. She’s had over seven years in the Senate to do something about Bush. Where’s the fight? The only fight I’ve seen is the one where she keeps smearing our next president and telling everyone that the Republicans have a better qualified candidate than we do. Some fight there, Laura.

  • I’d suggest to Clinton and her followers that it might be good to take a hard look at the college educated Democrats, all those “young” voters, and all those moderates and independents who support Barack Obama. Good judgment, a well thought out approach, and a broad and lasting coalition of voters is something these voters understand, which is why they support our next President, Barack Obama.

    Fixed it for you, Laura W. 😉

    Thanks for playing, but this game is over. Tuesday changed nothing. Scoring a touchdown in the fourth when you’re down by 21 is great, but you still won’t win the game.

  • I am sorry to say, but November is probably lost. Things have gotten so rancorous between the two camps that no matter who wins the nomination, s/he will not be able to prevail. If Obama wins the Hispanics go to McCain who for a Republican is stunningly enlightened on immigration. If Clinton takes it the young folks and lots of miffed black folks stay home. They don’t go to McCain; they just don’t go so he wins by default.

    If it weren’t that the next president is likely to nominate three Supreme Court and dozens of appellate justices, I’d say that for the long run it would be wise to lose with Hillary, in order to bring the Hispanics more to our party. Since the next president is going to have to deal with “1929 The Sequel”, it would be great to have a clueless empty suit like McCain make crystal clear to all and sundry how truly pathetic modern Republicans are at basic economics and governance.

    Unfortunately, those three Supreme Court justices will do such vicious damage to the Constitution that there will be little left of it. That part about quadrennial elections for the Imperial Presidency will probably be found to be unconstitutional. Scalia will point out that the “original intent” of the framers was to have property owning Anglo-Saxon dudes run things. “Property” will be found to mean a net worth of $1000 in 1789 money, or $2 million of the Incredible Shrinking BushBuck.

  • For Donna @ 97:

    http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/01/06/swept_up_in_the_obama_moment_1.html

    An Obama event is not a friendly place for cynics, skeptics, or the chronically unimpressed. This is revival-tent stuff. The senator from Illinois used the metaphor of a religious conversion:

    “I am going to try to be so persuasive, so that those of you who are still wavering…will suddenly come to the conclusion — a light beam will shine through — will light you up — and you will experience an epiphany — I have to vote for Barack!”

    And:

    http://slate.com/blogs/blogs/trailhead/archive/2008/01/06/obama-s-cocky-messianism.aspx

    There was a moment during Barack Obama’s rally at Nashua North High School on Saturday when I thought, Wow, Iowa has gone to his head.

    Inside the gym, packed to capacity with 2600 people, Obama was describing to the crowd how his speeches generally work: “At the end—or maybe somewhere in the middle—a shaft of light comes through and hits you and you experience an epiphany: I have to vote for Barack.”

    And:

    http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9845595-7.html

    Barack Obama may be leading the Democratic presidential pack in every major poll here, but that didn’t dissuade the Illinois senator from a final early-morning rally with the Facebook generation.

    Clearly not content to leave their votes to the whims of online politicking, the Illinois senator stepped onto a stage fashioned in a Dartmouth College gymnasium, pulled an index card from his inside jacket pocket, and launched into a familiar set of talking points centered on what has become a familiar theme for his campaign: change and hope.

    “My job this morning is to be so persuasive…that a light will shine through that window, a beam of light will come down upon you, you will experience an epiphany, and you will suddenly realize that you must go to the polls and vote for Barack,” he told a crowd of about 300 Ivy Leaguers–and, by the looks of it, a handful of locals who managed to gain access to what was supposed to be a students-only event.

    He said it over and over and over…

    The Google is your friend; you might take the opportunity to check it out before you make an ass of yourself. Again.

  • dems keep it up ,another few weeks of this and John McCain can start measuring the oval office for new carpet! hillary keep it up your win at any price is great for the nation,it shows the bitch you really are

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