Walking with those who hate

Before the political world moves on from the controversy surrounding the Rev. Jeremiah Wright and Barack Obama’s stirring speech on race in America, it’s worth taking a moment to consider Michael Gerson’s WaPo column today, which I believe is misguided, but is largely representative of the conservative response to the week’s news.

Unlike the cartoonish, knee-jerk responses seen in some (ahem) corners yesterday, Gerson concedes from the outset that Obama made his case “as well as it could be made” yesterday, adding, “It was one of the finest political performances under pressure since John F. Kennedy at the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in 1960.”

But Gerson seems to believe that there is literally nothing Obama could do. That Obama forcefully rejected Wright’s most offensive remarks is fine, Gerson argues, but it’s too late for history, context, and explanations.

The problem with Obama’s argument is that Wright is not a symbol of the strengths and weaknesses of African Americans. He is a political extremist, holding views that are shocking to many Americans who wonder how any presidential candidate could be so closely associated with an adviser who refers to the “U.S. of KKK-A” and urges God to “damn” our country.

Obama’s excellent and important speech on race in America did little to address his strange tolerance for the anti-Americanism of his spiritual mentor.

Obama, Gerson concluded, “is not a man who hates — but he chose to walk with a man who does.”

This strikes me as a wildly flawed argument, for three reasons.

First, Sullivan notes, “According to Gerson, nothing Obama can say now can remove the taint of some of Wright’s worst moments, and nothing else that Wright has said and done for the good can be weighed in the balance. This from a man who flaunts his Christianity as a job credential.”

Quite right. By Gerson’s reasoning, Obama sat in Wright’s pews, which necessarily and permanently disqualifies him from national office. Obama can reject Wright’s thinking on these contentious issues, and can denounce them forcefully and publicly, but it doesn’t matter and it never will. Gerson’s approach, in this sense, is strikingly unreasonable.

Second, Gerson seems fundamentally confused about what Obama had to say about Wright yesterday. As Gerson sees it, Obama is “tolerant” of Wright’s “anti-Americanism.” Perhaps Gerson should listen to the speech again.

Obama said his former pastor “expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country,” and condemned the “shocking ignorance” that sometimes emanated from his pulpit. He lamented Wright’s “offending sermons” that “distort reality,” and Wright’s “profound” mistakes.

What Gerson perceived as “tolerance” was anything but. Obama tried to make this clear: “That anger [expressed by Wright] is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. But the anger is real; it is powerful; and to simply wish it away, to condemn it without understanding its roots, only serves to widen the chasm of misunderstanding that exists between the races.”

And third, if Gerson wants to talk about political leaders who “choose to walk” with those “who hate,” I’m absolutely delighted.

Jerry Falwell blamed Americans for 9/11 and told a national television audience — 48 hours after the attacks, while rescue crews were still looking for survivors — that we deserved the attacks. John McCain sucked up to him shamelessly, stood alongside him, and announced that Falwell was no longer an “agent of intolerance.”

Unlike Obama and Wright, McCain had no long-time ties to Falwell, but sought him and his anti-American ideas out for purely political reasons. Just as he did with John Hagee and Rod Parsley, both of whom have rhetorical records that are at least as shocking as Wright’s. All three, for years, expressed nothing but disgust and disdain for those who don’t think and act as they do.

Does McCain “choose to walk” with those “who hate”? If so, where’s Gerson’s column on the subject?

For that matter, Pat Robertson also blamed 9/11 on Americans, but the Bush White House proceeded to suck up to the televangelist for years. Bush gave Robertson a private audience in 2003 to discuss Iraq policy shortly before the war began, and the administration routinely sends high-ranking officials onto the “700 Club.” Does the president “choose to walk” with those “who hate”? If so, why didn’t Gerson resign?

The double-standard is hard not to notice.

Well said, Steve.

McCain went out of his way — and walked a long, long way to get there — to embrace Falwell, Hagee and Parsley.

Moreover, as Frank Schaeffer pointed out, his father — the often-overlooked but incredibly important religious right leader Francis Schaeffer — was just as “anti-American” as Wright, but he was warmly embraced by republican political leaders and presidents with not a word said about him.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/frank-schaeffer/obamas-minister-committe_b_91774.html

  • Republican’ts religious leaders can be anti-American because it’s anti-American Liberalism (culture). Democratic religious leaders aren’t allowed to be anti-American because it’s anti-American apple pie and Mom conservatism.

    Or, in short, McCain is a jerk.

  • Good post, Steve. That is ammo every Obama fan should have at his fingertips at all times. I’d be angry too, if I saw was Wright does every day. There is not a human being of sufficient age to be president who has not, in anger, said something that would exclude them from consideration, if known. If Wright did not have substantial good works on his ledger, Obama would have walked the first day.

  • In regard to Gerson, I highly recommend the article by Yale English professor David Bromwich entilted “Euphemism and American Violence” in the current issue of the NY Review of books. In it he discusses Gerson’s role in manipulating language in order to prepare the nation to accept the necessity of war with Iraq. To wit:

    “Those qualities [i.e., the ‘unspecifying grandiosity of the [phrase] global war on terrorism] fitted well with a style of white-lipped eloquence that Bush’s speechwriter Michael Gerson had begun to plot into his major speeches in late 2001. It made for a sort of continuous, excitable, canting threat, emitted as if unwillingly from a man of good will and short temper. Gerson, from his Christian evangelical beliefs and journalistic ability (he had worked for US News & World Report and ghostwritten the autobiography of Chuck Colson), worked up for the President a highly effective contemporary “grand style” that skated between hyperbole and evasion. The manner suggested a stark simplicity that was the end product of sophisticated analysis and a visionary impatience with compromise.”

  • I guess that the present generation living in the 21st century has little, if any, historical memory of the black anger back in the 1960s. Stokely Carmichael, H. Rap Brown, and the Black Panthers had riveting explosive denunciations of white racism and the war on Vietnam. Today, our lingering crop of right-wing racists and imperialists talking heads on Faux and Corporate Noisome Noise (CNN) are pretending to be highly scandalized by the notion of a black minister having the gall to speak some truth about Imperial America. Actually, it is mostly just more hypocritical Republican partisanship on their part.

    Actually, our external imperialist history traces back over a century ago to the Spanish-American War in 1898. After our victory over Spain, we grabbed Cuba, Puerto Rico and The Philippines. For good measure, we also grabbed Hawai’i. The Filipinos did not cotton up to being occupied by the American army, and they resisted for several years.

  • The president and others who wood Pat Robertson and the late Jerry Falwell did so in order to ask their help in getting a message across to those who would follow them.

    I must say that this differs from the close personal relationship Obama has with Wright, whom he considers to be an extended part of his own family.

    I see no double standard here Steve, but kudos for bringing some opposing views into the debate.

  • If we’re supposed to eternally damn everyone who’s said something really bad, should we send Gerson to prison, since he used his words to help start an illegal war that has killed thousands?

    Screw you, Gerson. You and your dying tribe. This fall you will be punished for your sins against the planet.

  • There is a predictable pattern with the “conservative” response that goes kind of like this (my translation): “If your’e not a flag waving fascist who tows the party line and talks the party talk then you are unpatriotic and unamerican! In other words,a liberal.”. It doesn’t matter a single solitary rat testicle what arguement, proof or historical fact is put forth, their way is the only way, the true religion, the one god.

  • The filmmakers among us need to put togther some clips from the other 200 thousand+ other minutes of Rev. Wright’s sermons about loving yr neighbors, etc. Also, putting together montages of Falwell, Robertson, Wright, Hagee, and maybe some actor doing Jeremiah from the Old Testament, to put the comments in some sort of context. Flood YouTube with these.

    Also, can the Obama campaign put out some booklets, maybe even comic books, in which the complete speech is printed? Get it around the filters and directly into people’s hands.

  • Obama actually addressed Gerson:

    ===============

    “For we have a choice in this country. We can accept a politics that breeds division, and conflict, and cynicism. We can tackle race only as spectacle – as we did in the OJ trial – or in the wake of tragedy, as we did in the aftermath of Katrina – or as fodder for the nightly news. We can play Reverend Wright’s sermons on every channel, every day and talk about them from now until the election, and make the only question in this campaign whether or not the American people think that I somehow believe or sympathize with his most offensive words. We can pounce on some gaffe by a Hillary supporter as evidence that she’s playing the race card, or we can speculate on whether white men will all flock to John McCain in the general election regardless of his policies.

    “We can do that.

    “But if we do, I can tell you that in the next election, we’ll be talking about some other distraction. And then another one. And then another one. And nothing will change.

    “That is one option. Or, at this moment, in this election, we can come together and say, “Not this time.””

    ==============

    It is Gerson who can’t break free. Sad, but not surprising.

  • the spectacle of spin has no bounds. on CNN one of the conservative talking heads extolled the speeches of MLK while taking obama to task for not fully renouncing and rejecting the “hate speech” of wright.

    my, how time has a way of making strange bedfellows — these conservatives who now show up at fetes for muhammad ali and applaud loudly — whose corner were they in when ali refused to fight in the vietnam war because “no vietnamese ever called me n*gger”?

    and i have a close uncle (Uncle Sam) who has made me cringe with his foreign policies that have caused so much death, destruction and suffering in so many parts of the world — deeds far more reprehensible that words — and yet dismissed as ‘in the past’ and therefore irrelevent.

    how odd; how very odd.

  • I must say that this differs from the close personal relationship Obama has with Wright, whom he considers to be an extended part of his own family.

    Really, and why would that be? First off, I have SEVERAL family members who say embarrassing things, like my dad who tells people that Bill Clinton was a Soviet spy ever since his trip to Moscow many decades ago. He also thinks liberals and atheists are out to ruin our country, holidays, and his religion; despite the fact that several of his kids (including myself) are liberal atheists and insist that we’re not doing these things. I’ve never let this come between our personal relationship, nor have I ever distanced myself from his statements when he says this stuff in front of others. I just kind of look away and hope he changes the subject.

    Beyond that, I also have longtime friends who I disagree with and who I think say terrible things. I once had a friend whose mom insisted that the bible warned against “yellow people” which is why she didn’t trust the Chinese, yet I had no problem talking to her and again, never distanced myself from what she said. The fact of the matter is that good people can believe dumb, horrible things; but that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with us for associating with them or considering them to be friends. You don’t base friendship on the worst of what someone says; but on their personality as a whole. There are people who I agree with on everything who I’d never be friends with, and people I disagree with who I enjoy talking to. You can’t base your opinion of someone on who they associate with, unless you have reason to believe that they share the same opinions as those people. And it’s obvious with Obama that he doesn’t share these opinions.

    Of course, the only reason why you suggest otherwise is because of your hatred for Obama due to the fact that he’s going to be our next president. But you really need to get over this. Or at least, to try not to condemn him on every single issue, as that really undermines your credibility and makes you look like a hack.

  • Just a question–does McCain even have a long-time paster whose sermons could be mined for ammunition? Does he even regualrly go0 to church? I know he has sought the supprt of politico-religious figures like Falwell and pastors Hagee and Parsley, but what about his own religious beliefs and practices?

    I think there is more than a little inconsistency here.

  • Gerson: The problem with Obama’s argument is that Wright is not a symbol of the strengths and weaknesses of African Americans.

    Obama: He (Wright) is a man who served his country as a U.S. Marine; who has studied and lectured at some of the finest universities and seminaries in the country, and who for over thirty years led a church that serves the community by doing God’s work here on Earth – by housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, and reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS.

    Conclusion: Gerson is wrong!!!!!

  • Obama’s speech was very good. That’s his forte and never dissapoints. Two points. 1) The everybody in America is a victim of corporate greed discourse, intensifies the we are very angry and we will get you image. 2) I wonder how many voters watch the whole speech. At the end, voters will be left with the faux news and MSM clips of Wright hate speech. I still think that at the end it will play against him and it is showing in the polls. The exit polling of white voters in PA will end up deciding who the Super delegates are going to choose, and who the next president will be.

  • I wonder how many of us would callously abandon a friend or family member who held extreme views. I think most of us would find it appalling, but because we cared or loved these people, we would try, over time, to change their views. Personally, I feel Obama has done the right thing, you don’t give up on people just because they are say stupid things, and you don’t stop caring about people because it isn’t politically correct to do so.

    But of course this is all about politics and nothing to do with reality.

    I must admit that I’m completely non-political … perhaps even anti-politics. I loathe what the process of politicking does to all people. It brings out the worst in us. Yet sometimes a few manage to rise above and shine.

    I think Obama shone.

  • Good post, for what it does. Senator McCain’s obvious pandering to haters on the religious right should rightfully be called out – and the fact that he has ignored their hatemongering while Senator Obama disavowed Rev. Wright’s remarks (which were less extreme, in my opinion, than the everygay drivel from the right).

    But one bit caught my attention, and reminded me of another context, which is resoundingly missing from all this. It was the part about Obama’s speech being “one of the finest political performances under pressure since John F. Kennedy at the Greater Houston Ministerial Association in 1960.” Well, excuse me, but here is a truth that I do not see in print commentary, but I do hear a lot from people who vote: Senator Clinton’s very substantial support is based on the appeal of her courage under fire – every day.

    I agree with Senator Obama’s point that an honest acknowledgement is needed of the part race has played in our past and the ways in which race has contributed to our present reality. It is true that we must break out of the present stalemate on race. However, Senator Obama and his supporters, including the Obama-loving media, have not acknowledged the extent to which the Obama campaign has systematically raised race as in issue. More generically, the Obama campaign has, as a matter of campaign strategy, attacked Senator Clinton in deeply derogatory, and sexist, terms since the beginning of the campaign, all the while holding himself up as above the fray, as offering a “new” and better kind of politics, “beyond partisanship,” and responding to Clinton’s criticism as “old-style partisan politics,” the kind of thing he has left behind. This hypocrisy was disgusting to begin with, and the fact that it has been accepted as conventional wisdom is more than disgusting. For a fact check on Obama campaign attacks (why believe me?), try this link: http://attacktimeline.com/.

    So the larger lesson of this episode for me is that Senator Obama showed courage and grace – this time. But Senator Clinton faces smears and attacks every day and every week with courage and grace, even when she and/or her campaign are less than ideal. The character reprise is similar to the qualifications issue. Senator Obama has showed himself to have some of the qualifications and now some of the character needed for the Presidency – and if he is nominated and elected, I will wholeheartedly hope that he has the reserves of character that President Kennedy, whose qualifications were similarly thin, found in himself. But Senator Clinton’s strongest experience is that she has seen, day to day, for eight years, what kinds of demands the presidency makes. She was a close advisor, in all areas, for a two-term presidency. That far outweighs the niggling about how much negotiating she did in North Ireland or wherever. Senator Obama’s resume is paper thin compared to Senator Clinton’s. But just has her steadfast courage is invisible to many media and internet commentators, they cannot see what kind of experience matters for a would-be President. It’s as if she were Mamie Eisenhower or Laura Bush. It’s hard to understand how that is not a degree of sexism that equals the racism Senator Obama urges us to confront.

  • I suppose time will tell whether Obama has effectively dealth with the questions of his association with Jeremiah Wright. But, based upon what I have heard this morning, a possible “accepted meme / conventional wisdom” is that the video clips currently making the rounds define Jeremiah Wright in his totality. And why, oh why did Barack Obama remain a member of Wright’s church for 20 years?

    I heard Shelby Steele being interviewed by a local “liberal” local talk show host (he actually ran as a Democrat for the seat Darcy Burner will be contesting this fall a couple years ago). Steele was left almost entirely unchallenged in his assertions that Wright demogogued anti-white and anti-American hatred “every Sunday.” He further asked (again with no challenge from his “interlocuter”) “Why would Obama attend a church in which his mother would not be comfortable?” He said a man that could live with such contradictions hinted at a troublesome character. There was no challenge from the radio host. After the interview was over, the host noted that the phone lines were jammed with people who wanted to discuss the Steele interview, but he was moving on to discuss the 5 year anniversary of the Iraq war. Therefore, Steele’s point of view went pretty nearly unchallenged. It was very frustrating to listen to.

    The estimable (snark) Juan Williams pronounced on NPR this morning that Obama joined Wright’s church because “people” did not think [Obama] “black enough.” There was no questioning about or evidence offered for the basis for Williams’ assertion. He also proclaimed the key question to be the same as that of Gerson – why did he not disown Wright long ago? These frames accept that Wright is entirely defined by the video clips. He has offered and offers nothing else to the discussion. He is not the man who concieved the notion of “the audacity of hope.” He is one-dimenisional.

    I feel discouraged this morning that the complexity of Obama’s background and his ability to find his way in his complicated world is being portrayed as a weakness in the corporate media (thanks for the new – for me – term). The CM does not do nuance, and I will watch to see if the (no pun intended) the “black and white” choice being forced upon Obama carries the day. I saw a comment yesterday that said that many in the American electorate want to hear one message and one message only – essentially that Americans and America is great and without blemishes and problems of its own making. Any other type of message will turn them off. I hope this is wrong

  • A hater is a hater is a hater, whether the name is Wright, Falwell, or any other. No one who’s thinking clearly can believe it’s OK to hang around with haters, or to take take their support, lend them yours, or contribute to their churches or other causes. It’s wrong. To me, it seems particularly reprehensible to embrace the hate for political reasons (McCain to pander to the Falwell extremists, Obama to garner the support of the Wright extremists). Ugh. Both McCain and Obama are equally wrong. Where is the real leadership among these second rate candidates? Neither one of these followers should be President.

  • I saw a comment yesterday that said that many in the American electorate want to hear one message and one message only – essentially that Americans and America is great and without blemishes and problems of its own making. Any other type of message will turn them off. I hope this is wrong

    I actually very much fear this is correct, and is how Republican demagogues manage to win time after time (I can’t believe no one has complained that Obama was not wearing a Chinese-made flag pin on his lapel yesterday for his speech!)

    I remain troubled, though certainly enough that my enthusiam for him in the general would be muted at all (I voted Hillary in the primary), by parts of the Wright issue. The speech was exceptional, at least on paper – I read it but didn’t see it. But. . .

    Maybe it is because I am so very lightly religious and have never really felt the need to be part of an organized church community but I cannot imagine myself ever sitting through some of Wright’s sermons and then coming back (with kids, no less). The hate-filled stuff is one thing – that could be balanced out by inclusive, uplifting themes other weeks. No, what struck me has gotten much, much less play (although Gerson mentioned it): the “HIV was created by the government to kill blacks” bit. See, here in the reality-based community, we slam on the Right all the time for ignoring science when it interferes with their dogma, so it we really should slam on Wright for it as well. If I heard a minister say that, I would consider him such a buffoon, and so lacking in credibility, that perhaps I ask about it after service once and if he doesn’t back down and admit he was off in left field, I can’t imagine ever taking him seriously enough to return.

    The government severely mishandled – and does to this day – HIV/AIDS issues. But it does not advance the cause to simply make stuff up without scientific basis. It is the anti-intellectualism that I would expect to pain a family of Ivy-league lawyers, and while Obama’s speech notes the “ignorance” occasionally coming from Wright’s pulpit, nothing in Obama’s speech really explains his tolerance of the ignorance very well. Surely there are hundreds of churches in Chicago.

    But again, maybe I’d feel differently had I ever felt strongly about there being such a thing as “my” church.

  • sorry, major word omission that changes the whole thing. In #21 above, the first line of the third paragraph (the second non-quote paragraph) should read:

    though certainly not enough that my enthusiam for him in the general would be muted

  • Gerson’s viewpoints should be immediately discredited because of his past works. For the guy who invented the “Axis of Evil” and “smoking gun/ mushroom cloud” phrases to incite this nation toward a war that it didn’t have to wage to give him the opportunity to paint more politically beneficial but factually flawed images in the press is reprehensible.

    Gerson is a hack speechwriter and a hack columnist with an ax to grind: Obama writes better speeches than he does. His twisting the truth to comport with his cleverly and deceptively turned phrases doesn’t merit the attention it’s given.

  • Obama’s mistake was to actually give a speech. He should have told them to just screw themselves;>

  • Obama’s mistake was to actually give a speech. He should have told them to just screw themselves;>

  • Today, at work, I was amazed. People standing around discussing the speech. People of diverse backgrounds talking to each other about things I had never heard talked about in my workplace before. Ok.. hell hasn’t frozen over… but the occasional snowflake was seen.

  • Obama thinks that only words matter, not actions. The tolerance for Wright was shown by his continuing to sit in a pew and participate in Wright’s church, not by anything he said in his speech yesterday. He cannot disavow a man’s beliefs, then continue to support his church which is the embodiment of those beliefs. Wright didn’t misspeak. He holds a philosophy and belief system, especially about white America, that is not reality-based and that is in direct opposition to the values Obama expressed yesterday. The contradiction between Obama’s words and his actions are what are troubling to many people. It doesn’t matter how many times Obama repeats that he does not himself share those beliefs. His actions contradict those assertions.

    Obama says he is opposed to hate yet he supports someone who preaches hate and holds a view of white America that is hateful. Obama cannot have this both ways.

  • How bout we play name that racist
    Hillary-“Racist”
    Bill-“Racist”
    Ferraro-“Racist of the worst kind(said Obama was black!)”
    McCain-“Have to wait till August to call him a racist”

    Some other famous racists
    Elmer Fudd-“Racist(tries to kill daffy duck all the time)”
    Cue ball in pool”(Racist symbol)”
    Anyone in the southern states who does not vote for Obama-“Racist”
    How about anywhere else-“racist”

    Million Dollar Question
    Obama-“impossible can not be racist”. His mentor Wright is a black extremest-“Means nothing”-Don’t you think Obama would take something from the hundreds of sermons he attended when Obama made racist statements-“No, he must have covered his ears”

  • Mary Marey, Quite contrary
    How does your garden grow ?
    She will cry and jive and add a few lies
    Thats how her garden grows

  • Nope.
    Not with you here.
    Obama sat in Wright’s pews for TWENTY FIVE YEARS. You don’t just dump the man when it’s polticially convenient. Gerson is RIGHT and this may well be a flaw in the character of Barak Obama. He tolerated a possibly loopy, inflammatory, divisive pastor. (Wright’s been there for 36 years delivering, maybe, 1500 sermons. How many were critical of America? Is it reasonable for Obama to have let the man slide, say, a dozen times in 25 years? Stats please.)

    Bringing up Gerson and McCain’s flaws does NOT diminish Obama’s mistake. It is embracing the same “The other guy does it too!” nonsense that is the pathetic specialty of the opposing party.

    That said, I find this flaw miniscule compared with the monstrous conduct of Hilary Clinton during this campaign and the worrisome dithering of John Sidney McCain.

    Obamaniacs can wish away any flaw they find if they want. I choose, instead, to acknowledge and accept this mistake and stand behind him anyway because, on balance, I still think he can lead us well.

  • I went through a terrible time after September 11th and in the run-up to the Iraq war with my godfather, someone I had always been intensely close with, the only person I told when my boyfriend (now husband) proposed to me early in our relationship. I had a bad, now dissolved, relationship with my father, and my godfather loved me as I was. But after September 11th, in the months leading toward the Iraq war, he became more and more radical. We left dinner early one night after a rant about “ragheads;” we quit meeting for coffee in the morning before work. We didn’t socialize for a long time, and only in the last couple of years have things started to normalize a little, though politics is strictly off the table.

    But I love this man, and he loves me. He isn’t blood; our relationship was originally based in his friendship with my parents and being the same religion. He didn’t quit loving me when I quit coming to Mass. I didn’t quit loving him when he went off the deep end, though it took a long time of asking myself how he could truly be a good person believing some of the things he did. And I had to look at his actions: his generosity with his family, his friends, me; his friendliness and openness to new people and places; the deep and abiding love of his granddaughters; his willingness to be the butt of jokes and admit foibles if it makes a good story; the way he recycles *everything* and bought a hybrid car.

    Throughout this entire Wright affair, besides the double standard that it exposes, I have thought about how my godfather is my Jeremiah Wright. As painful as it has been to lose some of that closeness with him, I understand my godfather and people in general better having been faced with looking at the whole person and seeing that one blind spot or bias could not define him as all bad, just as his many good acts did not make him a saint. It just makes him a human being.

  • SurveyUSA: Obama Losing Big To McCain In Ohio, Missouri And Kentucky. I don’t know if this was before or after the speech. If its after the superdelegates will go for Hilary to avoid catastrophe.

  • Javier, if you look deeper into SurveyUSA’s polls in Ohio, Obama loses 25% of the Democratic vote to McCain and loses overall, and Clinton wins overall and loses only 12% of the Democratic vote.

    That same poll shows blacks going to Obama over McCain by 84%, and blacks going for Clinton over McCain by 64% with whites split evenly for Clinton & McCain at 48%, but only 37% of whites show support for Obama over McCain.

    This could be backlash from the Reverand Wright controversy for sure, the big question is whether or not he can overcome this.

  • The pathetic thing about all the Obama-bashers is that they can’t tell us what Obama’s supposed to do about this; as it’s clearly not enough for them that he publicly denounced what Wright said or explain why he did what he did. So is Obama supposed to end his campaign, or what? It’s as if they’re saying that every person who goes to that church can’t be president.

    And the truth is that they just want to attack him for this, as it’s the best thing they’ve found so far. And if they ever find that he’s actually done something wrong, you’ll never hear another word about Wright again. But this is just their latest fad; yet another line in desperate attacks by desperate people.

  • All of those polls were conducted from 3/14/2008 – 3/16/2008, right after the Jeremiah Wright controversy started and was getting blasted all over the news, but before Obama’s race speech on Tuesday.

  • The pathetic thing about all the Obama-bashers is that they can’t tell us what Obama’s supposed to do about this – Doctor Biobrain

    Clearly Obama’s story has changed some. A few days ago Obama told the Chicago Sun-Times, “I had not heard [Wright] make such what I consider to be objectionable remarks from the pulpit. Had I heard them while I was in church, I would have objected,” on Tuesday his story seemed different: “Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely — just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.”

    Yet he didn’t object when he heard these “controversial” remarks and political views which he “strongly disgreed”.

    You ask what he should have done differently, how about…

    1. Leave the church, let’s say about 20 years ago.
    2. How about simply NOT putting such a controversial man on a pedastool.
    3. And NOT putting him on your advisory committee

  • Yes, he is supposed to end his campaign. He should disavow Wright by attending a church that is closer to the values he wishes to support. He should spend the next 8-12 years acquiring the experience he now lacks. He should continue to support the Democratic party and work for peace in Iraq from Congress and show that he is all the things he claims to be in his speeches. Then when he runs again, at age 50 or 52 (still very young), he will not be vulnerable to the criticisms that are hurting him today. I think he might also profitably build bridges to other segments of the nation, including Hispanic and Asian voters. He should definitely build up his foreign policy and economic expertise. Yes, advisors can help but the President needs information to be able to choose among the conflicting opinions surrounding him.

  • Parsing Mary at 27:

    Obama thinks that only words matter, not actions. [Do you have any evidence for this, or do you believe that if you keep repeating a Clinton meme it will eventually come true?]

    The tolerance for Wright was shown by his continuing to sit in a pew and participate in Wright’s church, not by anything he said in his speech yesterday. He cannot disavow a man’s beliefs, then continue to support his church which is the embodiment of those beliefs. Wright didn’t misspeak. [Did you actually hear or read the speech? Obama did not disavow his pastor’s beliefs, he denounced some of his statements, then went on to describe where those statements came from and pointed out how counter-productive they are even when based on lived experience. Did your Clinton-induced blindness/deafness make that part of it invisible or unhearable?]

    He holds a philosophy and belief system, especially about white America, that is not reality-based and that is in direct opposition to the values Obama expressed yesterday. [And you know this because you’ve actually done some research more extensive than compulsive rewatching of the same clips loop over and over again?]

    The contradiction between Obama’s words and his actions are what are troubling to many people. [Speak for yourself – most of us don’t see any contradiction.]

    It doesn’t matter how many times Obama repeats that he does not himself share those beliefs. His actions contradict those assertions. [Only in your caricatured universe, in which a wart becomes the only thing we know about the body it inhabits]

    Obama says he is opposed to hate yet he supports someone who preaches hate and holds a view of white America that is hateful. Obama cannot have this both ways. [Again – if you ever actually read or heard the speech, and tried to understand what it said before you filtered it through your own need to hate Obama, you would be so ashamed of yourself for exposing your willful ignorance for all to see.]

    Mary – it is clear to me that you possess intelligence, and also that you are a true Clinton supporter rather than a Publican troll – but it is hard to continue to have respect for what you have to say when you so clearly ignore everything that doesn’t fit your own narrative. In ignoring what Obama actually said you have to make things up to maintain your argument. That is dishonest. I would really resent it if I didn’t see that you are lying to yourself even more than to anyone else.

  • Oooh, me too! Stephen, that looked like so much fun that I want to try it too.

    “Obama thinks that only words matter, not actions.” -Mary

    1) Obama’s words don’t matter.
    2) His actions in the US and Illinois legislature don’t matter, but his choice of church is an action that does matter.
    3) Wright’s words do matter.
    4) Wright’s actions* do not matter

    *including housing the homeless, ministering to the needy, providing day care services and scholarships and prison ministries, reaching out to those suffering from HIV/AIDS, and serving as a marine… could this guy hate his country any more?

    I’m just curious. Why do Obama’s words not matter when Wright’s words (and not his actions) clearly matter so much to you?

    PS- Does Christian Prophet (32/33) do anything but post that same link over and over again? I’m almost certain that’s the only thing he’s ever posted in multiple threads…

  • Greg and Mary may have a point…

    Maybe Sen Obama should drop out of the race. There is a good chance that he is actually too good, too intelligent, and too thoughtful to ever be President of these United States. I would hate to see him get the job and lose his soul for it. Of course, in the eyes of folks like Greg and Mary, being soulless is roughly the same as “experience”…that’s what we need in a President. We need someone who has sold every one of their beliefs for a crumb of power. We need someone willing to throw friends of 20 years under the bus for political expediency. In short, we need a Clinton.

    Finally, if Clinton wins the nomination then all the ammunition that the Republicans have will be let loose. Folks like Greg and Mary will be here every day telling us how we need to defend her…hoping that we’ve forgotten how much they enjoyed attacking someone else. We’ll hear how we should stand behind the Clintons for pardoning those FALN terrorists from New York, because their motivations are just misunderstood. Granted, we needn’t worry about defending friends of the Clintons who get them into political trouble…they spent eight years proving that they’re more than willing to walk away from friends when it suits their purpose, and Bill can even manufacture a tear or two on demand.

  • Mary said:
    “He should spend the next 8-12 years acquiring the experience he now lacks. He should continue to support the Democratic party and work for peace in Iraq from Congress and show that he is all the things he claims to be in his speeches. Then when he runs again, at age 50 or 52..”

    Um, Obama is 46 now. In 8 years he’ll be 54. He could actually run at age 50 (that would be in 4 years, for the math impaired), but how could he run at age 52, given that presidential elections are 4 years apart? Your math skills are every bit as impressive as your powers of political persuasion. But I do agree that regardless of the election outcome, he and Clinton should work to undo the damage Clinton facilitated by giving W. the green light to invade Iraq.

  • Question. If Hillary were to shake hands with a member of the KKK, how quick would here political career(including the senate) be over.

    Obama needs to disavow Wright COMPLETELY or questions about his relationship are never going to go away.

    BTW going on post 41. Wright has said the government started the AIDS academic. He is a sick bastard

  • Unlike Obama and Wright, McCain had no long-time ties to Falwell, but sought him and his anti-American ideas out for purely political reasons. Just as he did with John Hagee and Rod Parsley, both of whom have rhetorical records that are at least as shocking as Wright’s. Falwell was hammered by both the left and the right for his statements, and he apologized for them. Wright has never apologized for his hate speech, and neither has Farrakhan (yes, I’m putting him in there as well). You know who else has never apologized for saying the same thing as Falwell? Michael Moore. No apologies from him. Nope. He gets phony-baloney Oscars for his phony-baloney movies and pockets the millions and expands his waistline waiting to put out his next America-hating pornography.

    By the way, I wouldn’t be all too crazy worshiping the Obamessiah just yet…before this all blew up in his face, Obama spent the last year denying he knew what was in the Rev. Wright’s sermons, along with his relationship with Tony Rezko.

  • Tess– The example you gave, of your personal Rev. Wright, was a wonderful way of addressing this issue of Obama and Rev. Wrights relationship, in all its complexity. How can we claim to know what is in Obama’s heart, if we don’t have all the information one needs to come to that kind of conclusion. In reading many peoples negative and judgemental responses to Obama’s speeches, I have found that there are some assumptions being made and conclusions that people have jumped to that are simply not true. I think its fine to question him fairly,But to express ones opinions as fact is unfair. So many people are wondering: When an individual clearly rejects someones behavior but chooses to not abandon or disown them, what does it tell us about that individual?? In my opinion, this is a person who has the desire and the ability to see people in much more whole and complex ways. It is a person who seems to have the ability to move beyond the extremes of “Black” and “White” or “good” and “Bad”. I certainly want a president who has that ability. What does it say about who Obama is, and what his true beliefs are, given what we know about Rev. Wright and this church, given the parts of several sermons we have heard or any other piece of information that we KNOW to be true, not assumed. For me, I feel that I don’t have enough information to come to any firm conclusions but there are several things I wonder about. One is, I do wonder where Obama was in his own development when he joined this church? I beleve (and correct me if i’m wrong) Obama was a young man at the time obviously finding himself spiritually, and dealing with his mixed racial background. This is when (I believe) he became a part of this church. Not two months ago or two or even five years ago, but a while ago when he was a young man trying to find himself. Those of us who are past middle age know that as we grow older our feelings change, sometimes drastically. As a biracial woman, I remember being a young adult and exploring the extremes of my racial identity before I was able to settle comfortably into myself as both Black and White. I also wonder how Rev. Wright has changed over the years. There is no question in my mind that the words I heard are rooted in such rage and hatred. I wonder though, have the parts of speeches we have heard, come from a particular time period in Rev. Wrights life?? or over a span of twenty years?? I would love to listen to some of the other things he has said and done over the years. Obama described in his speech a few of the wonderful things that Rev. Wright has done throught his life. I have chosen to give Obama the benefit of the doubt and believe that Rev. Wright has done many wonderful things for many poeple throught his life. So– Is Obama a liar because he has made statementsthat seem to contradict other statements. I don’t think so. To all those who continue to state that he denied knowing what was in these speeches and then took it back, this is wrong. You are making things up!!. He said he was not present for those particular speeches that we keep hearing about. He has never said that he hasn’t been present at times when Rev. Wright has made statements about things that Obama has strongly disagreed with.
    Soo untiI I hear that someone has found out that he was in fact present during these particular speeches, then he has not lied! If we discover that he was IN FACT present during those particular speeches I will have more questions for Obama. In my opinion, Obama has done something that noone has ever attempted to do in my lifetime ( other than Martin Luther king but I was too young) and that is to help all people White and Black to begin to deal with race in america.

  • A few thoughts…

    A factor one might consider is that Barack came to the church when he was a young community organizer working predominantly with church groups, whose members often noted to him that because of his secular background he remained an outsider of sorts. He was struggling with how to show the community that he worked within that he understood where there were coming from and thus establishing credibility. That he entered through the doors of Trinity, which resides within the community he serves, has a well-respected record of service to the community itself, and honors the Motherland, the land of his own father and paternal relatives that remain there should lend insight to his loyalty to Trinity, his community and yes, his Pastor. He explained in his moving speech on faith at the Call to Renewal forum that the critical remarks of the community whom he hoped to uplift led him to examine his faith. Watch or read his speech to gain a better understanding of how he came to commit himself to God’s calling of him.

    Barack Obama – A Call to Renewal
    http://www.beliefnet.com/story/194/story_19473_1.html

    http://www.sojo.net/index.cfm?action=news.display_article&mode=C&NewsID=5454

    Barack credits Rev. Wright for bringing him to Jesus and often cites Wright’s sermon, “The Audacity to Hope” as his inspiration for his book, The Audacity of Hope. I think it would be prudent of the media to air that sermon if they truly wish to know where Obama’s loyalty to his pastor began.

    text: http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2008/03/for-the-record.html
    audio part one: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xFZROa0rlMU
    audio part two: http://youtube.com/watch?v=A9_LQKlLSBo

    In his rejection of the specific words, but his loyalty to the man Barack exhibits Jesus’s message of love and forgiveness.

    “According to the Gospel of John, the Pharisees, in an attempt to discredit Jesus, brought a woman charged with adultery before him. Then they reminded Jesus that adultery was punishable by stoning under Mosaic law and challenged him to judge the woman so that they might then accuse him of disobeying the law. Jesus thought for a moment and then replied, “He that is without sin among you, let him cast the first stone at her.” The people crowded around him were so touched by their own consciences that they departed. When Jesus found himself alone with the woman, he asked her who were her accusers. She replied, “No man, lord.” Jesus then said, “Neither do I condemn thee: go and sin no more.”

    While Barack says that he vehemently disagrees with the particular remarks by Rev. Wright that have been aired incessantly, he maintains his integrity by hating the sin, but loving the sinner. Is this not what Jesus asks of His followers? To “disown” the man for political expediency would be disingenuous as well as betray his faith. Furthermore, to abandon his church because of isolated sermons from a renowned theologian, would be to abandon his community. I would argue that many if not most people attend their churches (or Synagogues, Temples, Mosques…) for the comfort and support of affiliation with like spiritually minded community members. Obama joined Trinity in its struggle to lift his community through empowerment, to abandon them would be to abandon his calling.

    I find it reprehensible that some find it justifiable to intrude into this man’s most private realm, his Faith, and use it to swift-boat him. Decent man that he is, he has not attacked other candidates for their spiritual mentors, but I find it extremely hypocritical, and yes perhaps racist, that the media has launched a character assassination of Obama after giving past Presidents, our current President and the other presidential candidates a pass on their affiliation to their own controversial mentors’ incendiary comments (Parsley, Hagee, Billy Graham, Schaeffer, Falwell… the victims of Katrina deserved what they got because God was punishing them for supporting homosexuals, Catholicism is a religion of whores, America was created to destroy Islam…).

    Furthermore, who of us can say that we do not have family, friends (who we also choose), bosses, coworkers, etc. who made racist, sexist or unpatriotic comments – are we to all leave our jobs, disown our friends, and abandon our churches? Some amongst us have had the courage to speak up to our friends, coworkers, employers and spiritual leaders when we hear racist, unpatriotic, or otherwise offensive language, but I would bet that most quietly cringe and carry on. I would certainly hope that most continue to love our neighbor because we believe that their sum is greater than their parts. I thought it very telling that Barack said that if he had heard the specific comments made by Rev. Wright that have triggered such outrage, he would have spoken with his pastor directly and shared his disagreement with him. No doubt, if he is the man that has been described by his friends, teachers and colleagues, he likely would have launched into a heated debate with Rev. Wright with the explicit goal of lifting his pastor’s deep-seeded, and justifiable anger to a higher place, a place of hope.

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