Wednesday’s Mini-Report

March 19, 2008

Today’s edition of quick hits.

* Bush gave another big speech on Iraq today; I didn’t watch: “President Bush on Wednesday declared that “the successes we are seeing in Iraq are undeniable” as he gave a rousing defense of the war on its fifth anniversary before a receptive but not overwhelmingly enthusiastic Pentagon audience…. The president, who issued the executive order to start “Operation Iraqi Freedom” on March 19, 2003, did acknowledge on Wednesday ‘an understandable debate over whether the war was worth fighting . . . whether the fight was worth winning . . . and whether we can win it.'”

* Dan Froomkin had a great take/overview: “The supposed victory against bin Laden that Bush is celebrating is belied by the fact that al-Qaeda wasn’t in Iraq before the invasion, that its Iraqi namesake is a mostly home-grown version with limited ties to bin Laden’s organization, that the administration’s own intelligence has concluded that the war has helped rather than hurt al-Qaeda — and that bin Laden himself likely remains safely ensconced in Pakistan…. Furthermore, Bush’s decision to arm anti-government Sunni militias may lead to even greater chaos when we do leave. The only way the surge has been an unqualified success is one that Bush didn’t mention today: It has bought him time.”

* Dick Cheney is misleading people about the Iranian threat. Try to contain your surprise.

* Worth watching: “Under strong U.S. pressure, Iraq’s presidential council signed off Wednesday on a measure paving the way for provincial elections by the fall, a major step toward easing sectarian rifts as the nation marks the fifth anniversary of the war. The decision by the council, made up of the country’s president and two vice presidents, lays the groundwork for voters to choose new leaders of Iraq’s 18 provinces. The elections open the door to greater Sunni representation in regional administrations.”

* It looked this morning like the Michigan re-vote was officially dead.

* And yet, talks continue between the state party, national party, and Clinton and Obama campaigns. (They’re even still working in Florida, too. — thanks W.B.)

* Well said: “I think everyone can agree that if you go to the trouble of organizing an Iraqi political reconciliation conference, it’s generally a bad sign if a number of key players don’t even show up.”

* Practically the entire Clinton campaign has gone to extraordinary lengths to avoid commenting on the Jeremiah Wright controversy. Lanny Davis didn’t get the memo.

* Clinton is singing Gen. David Patraeus’ praises, describing him at an event today as “an extraordinary leader and a wonderful advocate for our military.”

* Because the line between right-wing rhetoric and parodies of right-wing rhetoric are eerily blurry: “Pelosi ‘Worst Kind of Liberal Racist,’ Iraq Expert Says.”

* NYT: “Hundreds of gay and lesbian rights advocates protested at the Capitol over comments a state representative made about homosexuals. Representative Sally Kern, Republican of Oklahoma City, drew national attention last week when a January speech she gave before a Republican club in Oklahoma City was posted on the Internet. In the speech, she said homosexuality was ‘the biggest threat our nation has, even more so than terrorism or Islam.'”

* Justice Kennedy thinks D.C. residents need protection — from grizzly bears.

* Well said, Part II: “As progressives, our goal shouldn’t be to provide gold-plated care to every person in the country, nor should it be to restrict the ability of the rich to get better service if they want to pay for it. Our goal should be to provide decent care to everyone, with the market free to operate on top of that.”

* Hmm: “The Times article today on how all med students are going into dermatology and plastic surgery instead of general medicine was rather fascinating — maybe the answer is some sort of Harvard Law-style loan forgiveness program for med students who actually want to be, you know, doctors?”

* And finally, Bill O’Reilly is convinced that Barack Obama is incapable of bringing the country together, not because of race or ideology, but because the senator doesn’t like Fox News.

Anything to add? Consider this an end-of-the-day open thread.

“Practically the entire Clinton campaign has gone to extraordinary lengths to avoid commenting on the Jeremiah Wright controversy. Lanny David didn’t get the memo.”

Perhaps Lanny did get the memo.

This issue has been extremely helpful to Hillary, and if her pattern of injecting race into the campaign is any indication (and it is), she doesn’t want this thing to go away any time soon.

  • Clearly Obama’s story has changed some. A few days ago Obama told the Chicago Sun-Times, “I had not heard [Wright] make such what I consider to be objectionable remarks from the pulpit. Had I heard them while I was in church, I would have objected,” on Tuesday his story seemed different: “Did I know him to be an occasionally fierce critic of American domestic and foreign policy? Of course. Did I ever hear him make remarks that could be considered controversial while I sat in church? Yes. Did I strongly disagree with many of his political views? Absolutely — just as I’m sure many of you have heard remarks from your pastors, priests or rabbis with which you strongly disagreed.”

    Yet he didn’t object when he heard these “controversial” remarks and political views which he “strongly disgreed”… Sigh.

  • Justice Kennedy thinks D.C. residents need protection — from grizzly bears.

    Stephen Colbert says thanks.

  • Greg, you can’t imagine how many times I am offended by your comments, and I seldom object.

  • * Well said, Part II: “As progressives, our goal shouldn’t be to provide gold-plated care to every person in the country, nor should it be to restrict the ability of the rich to get better service if they want to pay for it. Our goal should be to provide decent care to everyone, with the market free to operate on top of that.”

    Sounds right to me. It’s the high-end medical procedures that skew the costs.

  • “Clearly Obama’s story has changed some.”

    Clearly Greg is a right-wing man-child.

  • “As progressives, our goal shouldn’t be to provide gold-plated care to every person in the country”

    Indeed. Although as soon as we say that, Harry and Louise will jump on us and demand to know why, since “we have the best health care system in the world”. Of course the people they are playing to are the ones who actually make the decisions in America, people who have access to good healthcare already and don’t want to pay for other people to get access to it. The proper response of course is to show how other countries actually do a lot more with a lot less.

    ————-

    Poor Lanny Davis just can’t quite understand why black preachers get to use “the N word” and white people don’t. Someone get him some help, please.

  • I am no right wing anything, I have voted democrat my entire adult life, and will continue to do so. I am also NOT a racist, so please don’t label me.

    I found this excerpt rather disturbing. Here’s a link to the whole story:
    http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/MichaelMedved/2008/03/19/three_big_problems_with_baracks_speech

    The website for the congregation (Trinity United Church of Christ) begins with an introductory paragraph under the heading, “About Us,” that unequivocally proclaims: “We are an African people, and remain ‘true to our native land,’ the mother continent, the cradle of civilization.”

    For many years, the next paragraph (recently removed due to the Wright controversy) appeared on the website and shamelessly explained explained: “Trinity United Church of Christ adopted the Black Value System….We believe in the following twelve precepts and covenantal statements. These Black Ethics must be taught and exemplified in homes, churches, nurseries and schools, wherever Blacks are gathered.” Those “precepts and covenantal statements” include, “Commitment to the Black Community” (Number 2), “Disavowal of the Pursuit of ‘Middleclassness’” (Number 8), “Pledge allegiance to all Black leadership who espouse and embrace the Black Value System (Number 11) and “Personal Commitment to embracement of the Black Value System.” (Number 12).

    A simple thought experiment can clarify the questionable nature of the ideology of Jeremiah Wright’s church. Try replacing the word “black” in the material above with the word “white,” and you’d see a perfect definition of the spiritual approach of the “Aryan Nations” or “Christian Identity Movement” or other neo-Nazi fringe groups.

    Could the American people truly accept a President who chose long-term affiliation with an organization that says that “Black Ethics…must be taught” and requires “Personal Commitment to embracement of the Black Value System” — not the American Value System, or the Universal Value System, or, pointedly, even the Christian Value System.

    Obama’s church publicly and unapologetically promoted a “Value System” based on racial identity, not common heritage or American patriotism

  • Don’t tell me this is the latest campaign from the so-called “Operation Rescue,” this time in league with neo-Nazis and white supremacists of the lowest order known….

  • Greg said, “I am no right wing anything…” and then proceeded to post an excerpt from the ramblings of right-wing madman Michael Medved.

    Thanks for proving my point.

  • “Medved” means “bear” in Russian…maybe the good people of D.C. do need protection from grizzly bears after all.

  • If Greg were a Democrat, as he claims, he wouldn’t have a problem with a black value system. Continuing to raise this issue demonstrates that this clown is a right-fielder.

  • There’s a very direct connection between the two healthcare posts: the Kevin Drum piece and the second one referencing the NYT article. They both speak of the priorities of the healthcare system and the choices physicians and physicians in training are making with regards to their areas of practice. If you look at other developed nations of the world, roughly half of the entire workforce of doctors are engaged in general practice — talking care of coughs, flus, headaches and other general medical conditions. In the US that number is at 30%. What that means for the consumer is we have a healthcare system based on doctors referring you to other doctors for more test and exams while each tries to explain your maladies through the particular lens their specialty provides. Specialties obviously have their place, but it also leads to a system where doctors are treating the symptoms of disease that fall within their realm and not the root cause of illness.

    Drum’s article does us all a great service by pointing out that our national debate about healthcare should be about ensuring we all should have access to basic care. Those with the cash can get the “finest” and most expensive things they want, but our society will be healthier and disease more readily contained if their was at least a minimum floor of treatment that was ensured for everyone.

  • Greg (9) claims to be a lifelong democrat—and cites Townhall? Okay, so I’ll give him the benefit of the doubt, and agree that perhaps he’s not a complete, over-the-top, pillow-case wearing, cross-burning, pickup-truck driving, secret-shrine-to-George-Wallace-in-his-closet racist—but Townhall fans tend toward a form of right-wing’ed-ness that I affectionately refer to as “Gross Rovianesque Egomanic Gargantuanism” (G.R.E.G. for short).

    That, unfortunately, leaves the “denouncing and rejecting of being right-wing” on a very shaky foundation….

  • Poor Lanny Davis just can’t quite understand why black preachers get to use “the N word” and white people don’t. Someone get him some help, please.

    there’s that South Park episode…

  • “the successes we are seeing in Iraq are undeniable”

    This is absolutely true.

    Whatever is happening in Iraq, the Bush Administration is only capable of seeing success. And George W. Bush is incapable of denying it.

    You & I, of course, are free to deny it.

    I also find it odd that the 5th anniversary of the war to remove Saddam Hussein is still being identified as “this war” of today — which has a completely different enemy.

  • greg isn’t a racist – he just plays one on the blogs. I am sure he even has a few “black” friends, or at least allows them to hang around for a while.

    Heaven forbid anyone actually judge greg by the impact of his dishonest rhetoric and not the image he wishes to proclaim.

  • I posted the relevant piece of that article to highlight just why the Jeremiah Wright controversy is not going away.. This does not prove me to be a closet republican, these sentiments are typical of what I’m seeing across the board.

    I only read this article because it was linked from realclearpolitics.com, which links to articles from both sides of the aisle.

    If you don’t have a clear picture of the case that is being built against Obama, then you are in effect shielding yourselves from reality, which is that a lot of people are disgusted by this, including many of those who have previously cast a vote for Obama who would like their votes changed!

    The poll numbers reflect this..
    .
    Today, SurveyUSA polls are showing McCain beating Obama heavily in Ohio, Kentucky, and Missouri.
    http://www.surveyusa.com/electionpolls.aspx

    Gallup shows Clinton winning in national polls 49% to 42% over the past few days
    http://www.gallup.com/poll/105205/Gallup-Daily-Clinton-Moves-Into-Lead-Over-Obama.aspx

    Take a closer look at those poll numbers from SurveyUSA and you see that Obama has lost a lot of support among whites.

    So, go ahead and ridicule me and continue to surround yourselves in your imaginary world where this is just a bad dream that is going to go away.

  • The Obama crowd here sounds off just like right wing radio talk show hosts.
    Personal digs and unsubstantiated accusations.

    Can we talk about issues now?

  • little bear @ 18

    I have black people in my immediate family, do you want to continue to label me a racist without knowing me you fucking moron?

    I have never posted racist remarks on this site, and NO, saying that Obama is winning 90% of the black vote and that this is a heavy contributor to his success is NOT racist, it is FACT.

  • I guess it depends on what I think is a racist statement or a racist in general. By my standards, you fit that bill to a “t” Greg. Even Obama’s grandmother was guilty of making racist comments. See, Greg, it’s the ability to see in yourself a need to grow and learn (oh, and tolerance of others ways) that sets people apart. We all have some type of pregudice (black, white, etc) but if you are aware of your failings and are willing to grow you are a better person. Try it Greg…

  • Greg, you can have black people in your immediate family and still be racist. Strom Thurmond comes to mind.

  • Greg is a racist pig. Has to be, because he is white and does not support Obama. That’s all it takes these days.

  • “Justice Kennedy thinks D.C. residents need protection — from grizzly bears.”

    It’s when you endorse such lies that you (and by “you” here, I mean Democrats) lose the support of a large number of potential voters. The only reason the vote these days is even close is because of alienating such a large group. Kennedy thinks no such thing.

    You can look at the transcript yourself. The discussion was whether the phrase “keep and bear arms” had an exclusive military meaning in the late 1700s/early 1800s, or whether it also referred to civilian use. One of the civilian uses that Kennedy was talking about was how a remote settler defended his cabin, himself, and his families, and whether that phrase was used in that context.

    To claim that he somehow thought that there were grizzlies in DC, or that that was what the discussion at that point was about, is pure, rank dishonesty. You should be ashamed.

  • All my life, I have run into people who seem to take perverse delight in pissing people off. They are smart enough not to do it overtly, or aggressively. They get their kicks from doing it intellectually. This is Greg. Such people do not speak from moral imperatives of their own. In truth, they don’t give much of a damn about the reasonableness or even the truth of what they are saying (this is why so often what they say doesn’t make a whole lot of sense). What is important is that what they say pisses others off. Getting reaction is their game. From this, they get somehow validated. It’s OK. Helps the rest of us focus, don’t you know?
    Doesn’t this describe the Limbaughs, the Hannitys, the Gallaghers, the Savages, the Coulters, the Ingrahams, etc.?

  • If you look at other developed nations of the world, roughly half of the entire workforce of doctors are engaged in general practice — talking care of coughs, flus, headaches and other general medical conditions. In the US that number is at 30%. — petorado, @14

    You are, of course, right; the result is that we get diagnosed from a very narrow perspective (and a very broad — and expensive — range of tests, to offset that); if the only tool you have is a hammer, the world is your nail; if all you have is a screwdriver…

    But what’s also interesting, I think is not just the results, but the causes of this situation.

    In most civilized countries, you don’t have to mortgage your soul to get through medical school; higher education is either free or close to it (though, often, it comes with a “hook” — you have to “pay back”, by participating in the country’s public health system). And you know you’ll be paid enough by the public system to live on comfortably, with anything you earn in private practice being extra. Since you’re not crippled by debt right at the onset, it’s quite enough. Here, if you don’t specialize, you might never be able to pay off that initial debt, so people go for specialization and, in particular, for the most lucrative branches (people who can afford cosmetic surgery aren’t paupers).

    Our healthcare system is effed up from the word go, all the way up the ladder, starting with the (un-affordable) education.

  • Sorry, i didn’t mean to code that above.

    Great link, MsJoanne…funny, funny stuff.

    Shutting up now.

  • How very insightful Barry (#27), your words are as disengenuous as calling Clinton a monster who would do anything to win. Of course I must get my kicks from pissing you off, I wouldn’t simply be posting facts that contradict your beliefs in an attempt to have a healthy debate, or just to balance out this blog with other points of view, that would be inconcievable.

    The right wing is not going to stop using these videos as a weapon, there is no undoing the damage that has been done. I’d much rather see a democrat win in November, as I hope you all would too, but you must ask yourselves honestly if you really think Obama can recover from this? If you look closely, this appears to be less and less likely.

    Obama gave a very eloquent speech, it was actually moving in it’s delivery, but it did nothing to quell the outrage from those who were offended by Reverand Wright. Most people will not listen to the entire speech, this is a fact, they will hear or read snippets put together to prove the point of view of the author or analyst.

    What you fail to understand is that this has actually made Obama unelectable as evidenced in the poll numbers. My stating the FACT that Obama no longer has the wide range of support from whites as the reason that he is losing in the polls is simply that, stating a FACT. He went from a slight lead in the polls last week, to overwhelmingly losing in all credible polls this week, even after making the speech.

    By first stating that he would have confronted his pastor had he heard any controversial statements from the pulpit, and then later admitting that he actually had been present when controversial statements were made, he contradicted himself in the worst possible way.

    This man ran his campaign on judgment, which we are to believe he has shown an infinite amount of thanks to a speech he made in 2002, yet his impeccible judgment did not help him to discern the true character of the man he considers an extended member of his own family, while exploiting his actual family (grandma) for political gain.

    WAKE UP.. this is not going away!

  • What you fail to see MsJoanne is that Obama’s campaign is unravelling, and that the actual majority of Americans are exactly like me, offended by Rev. Wright and in awe of the audacity of Obama to associate himself so closely to somebody as hateful and anti-American as him.

    This just in, Obama is too closely related to this man to distance himself. The 527 ads are going to ruin him, and the democratic party.

  • Well, since this is only March I think the two words that come to my mind are: Gennifer Flowers

  • It is a shame that the BBC had to report it. I certainly haven’t seen it anywhere in the US media. Have you?

    Unbelievably sad. I can’t believe I haven’t seen this reported here.

  • Greg
    Keep up the good fight. Its a shame that too many here dive staight into personal attacks and calling you a troll just because they refuse to look at Obame critically. They miss the point that making this place an echo chamber of Obama worship doesn’t make the wishes come true. This election will be decided by the larger population and dismissing that population instead of engaging and persuading is a sure path to electoral defeat.

  • Keep it up. You people are the stupidest, most short-sighted political block i have ever seen. You fully deserve the treatment you’re getting from each and every maniac in this administration.

    Quit pissing around with the he said/she said/ superficial politics. Jesus Christ .. no wonder the GOP treats you all like the saps you are — you’re as easy to manipulate as fucking turtles. You are worthless, worthless, worthless citizens. You’ve been handwringing and apologizing and whining and rationalizing and fingerpointing for seven years — falling into the trap of yapping about insubstantial campaign crap, and not having the courage of your convictions to do any worthwhile.

    Your president is now, clearly, clinically insane. He has lost touch with reality, he is a lone gunman holed up in the White House … he defies, logic, science, morality, truth, decency and emprical evidence … and dictates his own insane fucking fantasy. and still … you sit .. hoping he won’t lead the planet to armageddon before seven months is up.

    so do me a favor: shut up ….. just shut up until you’re willing to do something. you make me sick.

  • Well, since this is only March I think the two words that come to my mind are: Gennifer Flowers – MsJoanne

    You really think drudging up the past is going to do any good? At least her past is known, as evidenced lately we really didn’t know Obama as well as we thought.

    Another thing, aren’t you arguing against guilt by association here? Would it not be hypocritical to suggest Hillary should be condemned for Bill’s actions? Ironic, don’t you think?

    You would strip Hillary of any good she did as first lady only to condemn her for the negative republican fueled bad press she received over the years, yet do not appreciate the hypocrisy, and you turn your backs while Obama neglects to comprimise with regard to Florida and Michigan where millions of voters are being disenfranchised.

    MsJoanne, do not try to take the high road with me, your cowardly words reflect futility of your candidate as he wriggles under pressure as the full weight of the contraversy rests upon his shoulders, and he chose not to repudiate the man and to instead humanize him and praise him while condemning his words, as if to seperate the man from the speech.

    You will see this continue to dominate the political news cycles. All the 527’s will need to do is show the clips of Wright followed by statements from Obama saying “This man shaped who I am”, or some other profoundly honest statement that will be used to condemn him.

    For God’s sake, accept the fact that this is NOT GOING AWAY!

  • re Mis Joanne’s BBC tid-bit:
    If you live in a tent-city because you had been dispossessed, where do you go to vote? Can you even register to vote? And, if you can’t vent your frustrations via the poll booth, what’s to stop you from picking up a pitchfork or a torch?
    Just wondering…

  • Greg, What I am arguing is time, idiot. Try to follow a thought here, as difficult as it might be for you. March – October; time and Flowers – Bill Clinton – elections; TIME. Keep up, man. And I am done feeding you.

    Oh, before I shooo you away, since Rezko is one of your other pet bitches, feel free to read this http://archpundit.com/blog/ ; he’s an IL blogger. You might learn something (ok, scratch that).

    Bye, bye. I’m done with you. Shooo.

    And, timeoutofmind, what might you suggest? I call and write my elected officials to the point that they know me by name. I sign petitions. I am vocal. I protest. Please do tell what else I might do, for I have asked myself the same thing over and over. I am all ears and I am sure there are others who are, too.

    No matter what I do, I feel it’s insufficient. Suggestions gladly welcomed!!

    Libra, that crossed my mind, too. I assume for now, they have some kind of identification from where they did live. After that, who knows. Great new voter caging method; no address, no response to certified letters. My other thought, where do they go to get some kind of unemployment or whatever else? When we talk about disenfranchised in this country, you couldn’t get more disenfranchised than that.

    For all of you who read this, please send this link to 10 of your friends and ask them to send it to 10 more. Since our media won’t delve into this existing tragedy, let’s make this go viral.

    GO VIRAL!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BiVP1JVCGU&eurl=http://www.crooksandliars.com/

  • Greg said:
    What you fail to see MsJoanne is that Obama’s campaign is unravelling, and that the actual majority of Americans are exactly like me, offended by Rev. Wright and in awe of the audacity of Obama to associate himself so closely to somebody as hateful and anti-American as him.

    Wright’s remarks made me uncomfortable — because Wright has been given so much reason to sound hateful.

    Huckabee understated the reasons a black man born in 1941 would have reasons to sound hateful — “But I’m just tellin’ you — we’ve gotta cut some slack to people who grew up being called names, being told “you have to sit in the balcony when you go to the movie. You have to go to the back door to go into the restaurant. And you can’t sit out there with everyone else. There’s a separate waiting room in the doctor’s office. Here’s where you sit on the bus…””

    If Wright is like the black men I know, his mother had to teach him to never look a white woman in the eye because she could perceive a threat and the black man could end up hanging from a tree.

    Wright served his country in the Marines, and then returned to find “sundown towns” from coast to coast.
    “Towns like Anna and Jonesboro (IL) are often called “sundown towns,” owing to the signs that many of them formerly sported at their corporate limits — signs that usually said, “Nigger, Don’t Let The Sun Go Down On You In ____.” Anna-Jonesboro had such signs on Highway 127 as recently as the 1970s.
    http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/2006/images/12/20/sundown.towns.pdf

    If Wright was like the black men I know, he had to teach his children to never look a white man in the eye because they might take it as a challenge and they and their friends would beat up the black man with impunity.

    If Wright was like the black men I know, he had to teach his grandchildren how to talk to the police so they don’t end up dead. The grandchildren had to be taught to carry the store receipts for the clothes they were wearing to prove they weren’t shoplifters.

    What’s really newsworthy is that Wright was still preaching about love and redemption, not throwing bombs.

    I usually disagree with Greg, but calling him names because he’s being provocative and you disagree with him is the kind of things the Republicans do.

  • Steve T., there’s a difference between being provocative in a way that questions things, makes one think, opens horizons of thought rather than continuously spouting lies, misstatements, racial slurs and hatred.

    For weeks on end.

    That was an amazing post. Such a very sad part in our cultural history. Thank you so much for it.

  • Oh you guys are such fools to pick up the right wing talking points against HRC.
    And they’ve only just gotten started on Obama.
    Let’s agree to not get sucked in OK?
    Both are spectacular, and the race is tight.

    Let’s try not to engage in cannibalism.

  • It’s been my privilege to know Lynda Obst, the toughest gut-fighter – male or female – I ever met in 27 years in Hollywood, since 1984, when she was the first person to “get” In The Year of the Monkey, and to fight for it. She’s never done anything bad – look her up in the IMDb and you will see she is someone who goes for quality every time. And fights for it.

    She lays it on the line here in her post at today’s Huffington Post, about what is what regarding Hillary Clinton, better than anything I could ever say.

    I really dislike chauvinists: male, white, black, national, whatever. Watching feminism – something I supported since the first time I ever saw anyone bring the subject up 40 years ago at the SDS national convention (when I was embarassed by the response of too many so-called “radical” men around me) – I have really disliked watching boomer feminism morph into Female Chauvinism over the past 30 years. So I really really respect Lynda for saying this.

    Women of my generation have clearly lost their minds. Not that I can blame them, apparently being invisible and all. Now with Geraldine Ferraro making outrageous nut-jobber remarks she doesn’t even seem to understand, and realizing our tragic generation was once proud of her as a “pioneer,” you can see how deluded we are as well. Worse, only this week, a heroine of mine, Tina Brown, got it utterly wrong in Newsweek, saying all boomer women had to be for Hillary. Tina drank the victim Kool Aid.

    So I want my peers to meet an original (begged for him to run) pro-Barack boomer 50-something careerist woman, who chose Barack above and beyond — hear me, Geraldine, you utter moron — from the best field of Democratic candidates we’ve had for years, many of whom I’ve been big fans of forever, for their various courageous stands on Central America (Dodd,) Iraq (Biden, Richardson and Kucinich.)

    But Hillary? Never liked her. Many of my best friends and favorite women have always felt the same. Something unsettling about her. A feminist? Maybe. But a compromised one, having risen to fame as the victim of Monica and having been famously on bimbo eruptions in her White House patrol. She was the destroyer of Paula Jones and Gennifer Flowers, the very blue collar ladies she is now being saved by. Kind of yucky, really. And hanging in there, through all the humiliation, and that making her a star. Left a bad taste in my mouth.

    Moving on.

    What about my generation’s desperation that there will never be another female candidate? Why? Is our gender about to die out? Do you all know something I don’t? I can understand the 80-year-olds, I guess. But to me, Hillary Clinton is merely the first credible candidate, and the most flawed. And the only one not to rise on her own coattails, which is the real reason she doesn’t appeal to both me and many young, yes, in their own way, feminists.

    And what about Claire McCaskill? She’s great! And she just emerged this year! Why do we act like Hillary is our last great chance? How damaged and pathetic. I see fantastic women in their 30s all the time. To wit, Chelsea’s undamaged generation. Not polarizing, like us ceiling crashers. I can sympathize, I am, too.

    Another issue is, you don’t know what she really thinks. Did she vote that way on the war because it would make her look tough? Or is she really such a hawk? I know a lot of women who really believe she’s a peacenik, but votes like a hawk because she has to look tough to men. I am not so sure. I think she’s a hawk. But none of us know for sure. This is a problem for boomer Barack women like me, and young women, too.

    And another thing. And I am not even going to get into how nutty her relationship is, and no, I don’t want two for one. Al Gore didn’t then, and I don’t now. And it looked pretty ugly on the campaign trail so far. Anyway. This whole thing about being vetted: what’s the hold up on her White House transcripts? Why withhold tax records, info on fundraising at the presidential library? Somehow I fear something lurking there in the bushes, pardon.

    I hate when women identify as victims, act like victims, and love victims. And Hillary, as strong as she is, wins as a victim. That is the trajectory of her career. I am a victim. Punch.

    So why are women whining and the identifying with being the victim again? This is so un-Tina! Hillary was the victim of an oppressive media? Of being asked the first question? Poor baby. All that good coverage on Obama was about being the victor of 11 primaries in a row — excuse us! And is Barack playing the victim of a real calumny? On Clinton’s answer to the known question: “Are you a Muslim?” “Not as far as I know?” Are you not ashamed?

    What are you talking about, unfair treatment? Compared to what?

    And one last thing. What I saw that ugly week with Tex/Ohio, was a woman yelling, shrieking, mocking, changing her strategy every day. I can understand the desperation, but I can’t understand smart women mistaking that for strength. When she said shame on you, I was ashamed. Does that make me a sexist? Since I am her peer and a woman? No, I wanted her to be strong but consistent, not lose her cool at 3 a.m. The way Senator Obama had behaved all week.

    And now she is the killer of Hope. (It was just too delusional to manage). We are not that multi-racial post-oppression society that shocked the world and for a moment was its wonder. We are, thanks to Hillary’s kitchen sink and staff, the same old America they thought we were. The racially charged, fractured America Bush & Rush left us with that Obama has the prescription to heal. The one that attracted us original believers during his miraculous 2004 convention speech then swept 11 primaries in a row and apparently had to be stopped (thanks, SNL). We are the broken polarized America she wants to rule, will do anything to rule.

    That we have learned can’t be ruled.

    Which is why I was an original Barack Boomer Woman in the first place.

  • I like the Salon article on the FDA: ‘SECRET REPORT SAYS PEOPLE BIASED AGAINST CLONED FOOD!’ …Umm, yeah, that would be one reason not to make labeling mandatory if there were no risks associated with it. Since there were no risks associated… People can label their NOT CLONED food if they want to, and I’m sure they will.

  • Anybody reading the comments section of this blog are likely very well informed, and know that Jeremiah Wright is not as racist and anti-American as these videos would make it seem, however if all you know is those 30 second clips, and this will be true for most Americans, then you see how powerfully condemning this really is.

    I must say despite the fact that I plan to vote for the democratic nominee whoever it is, however my point for the past several days has been that the Republicans will smear Obama to the point that this harms America, and I for one don’t want to see an all out race war, I have family who are bi-racial, this hits very close to home for me. IMHO, having the presidential election be about race is very damaging to the democratic party, and society as a whole.

    The idea that this isn’t going away came out of the mouth of Keith Olberman by the way (yes, I still watch him despite his recent attacks on Hillary).

    The idea of putting video of Rev. Wright put together with video of Obama saying that he helped shape who he is not my idea either, I heard a black woman co-host say that exact phrase on CNN last night. This is really big news and has not been put to rest by a usually very Obama leaning liberal media.

    My point is this, shouldn’t somebody with good judgment see what is clearly obvious, the people who were offended by the videos of Reverand Wright have already stopped listening. Their ignorance is abhorrent, but to pretend this very negative shadow doesn’t exist is not helping the matter.

  • Tent cities…God BLESS America. It sure as shit looks like we’re gonna need it…a lot of it.

    Greg, you rarely provoke “intelligent debate”: there’s a lot of screaming; harping on a single subject – which you frame in a way as to be undebatable; and as Nell points out, a great many right wing talking points and intra-party cannibalism.

    Crissa, there are no known risks associated with cloned meat. Theoretically, the cloned individual is an exact duplicate of the stock individual. However, serious problems arise when you start taking clones of clones…in plants, all sorts of strange characteristics can jump out. And while plants aren’t cows, cloning them is easy (i do it all the time), so we have a good idea of the longterm process and effects. The problem is that a clone is a genetic snapshot. Whatever state the organism is in when you take the clone, that is the permanent state of the cloned offspring…a clone of a three year old individual may be tiny, but it is a three year old individual.

    Most likely, people will not be able to label their product “NOT CLONED”. Dairy farmers are often not allowed to label their milk “NO BOVINE GROWTH HORMONE”…it’s a serious issue in Pennsylvania. We eat GMO products all the time, because there is no labeling one way or the other. Though European governments have not taking to GMO agriculture, the major way that they’ve controlled it is by requiring that all products containing GMO’s are labeled accordingly. This puts the power to decide in the hands of the consumer. Our giant agri-conglomerates don’t want the consumer to have that information…companies like Monsanto (which is very close to HRC) are the motivation behind the laws that keep farmers from even labeling their food to indicate that it doesn’t contain GMO’s, hormones, etc.

    Furthermore, while cloned meat may be safe for us to eat (i assume that it is); that does not mean that it is safe for the future of the livestock…in the larger sense, the health of the herd. Petri dish meat is one thing. But if the goal is to grow cloned animals, you have an unhealthy feed lot environment compounded by every animal being exactly the same. Disease, bacteria, etc. will be able to spread like wild fire. Heavy dosages of antibiotics will be the only recourse. Already, 50% of the antibiotics administered in the US are given to you via your meat intake…just to keep them alive in conditions that make a tent city look like the Taj Mahal.

  • MsJoanne said:
    Steve T., there’s a difference between being provocative in a way that questions things, makes one think, opens horizons of thought rather than continuously spouting lies, misstatements, racial slurs and hatred.

    Obama on Tuesday:
    “I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy….

    “But the remarks that have caused this recent firestorm weren’t simply controversial. They weren’t simply a religious leader’s effort to speak out against perceived injustice. Instead, they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country – a view that sees white racism as endemic, and that elevates what is wrong with America above all that we know is right with America….

    “And this helps explain, perhaps, my relationship with Reverend Wright. As imperfect as he may be, he has been like family to me. He strengthened my faith, officiated my wedding, and baptized my children….

    “I can no more disown him than I can disown the black community.”

    I guess I just don’t know what else Obama is supposed to do. Should he demand that Jeremiah Wright be shipped to Guantanamo? Should he ‘bust a cap’ in Wright’s head?

    The essence of being a Christian, and Obama is the only person in this race whose acts instead of his empty words demonstrate that he lives as a Christian, is to love the sinner but hate the sin. So Obama can’t completely disown Wright if he wants to remain true to himself.

  • And I haven’t even mentioned the religious right, who will pounce on this man of God in the worst way, making him seem to be the devil himself. This is not good, it’s really really bad.

  • “”But Hillary? Never liked her. Many of my best friends and favorite women have always felt the same. Something unsettling about her.”

    When I hear “never liked” I think gut reaction. Like Gore, Hillary is sometimes wooden and her voice is abrasive. She is not nearly the orator that Obama is, nor as good as Bill. Nevertheless she is a brilliant, hard working sincere and capable.
    To some she’s “unsettling”. To me she’s ground breaking. Even if she does not win, she has broken through the thickest glass ceiling there is.
    That takes toughness. Perhaps it’s that she is so remarkably tough that’s so unsettling?
    She’s a fighter. That morphs into a right wing talking point: “she’d do anything to win”. How unfeminine of her to not bow out and let Obama have the nomination. That’s like letting your husband win at chess or tennis to sooth his ego.

    Malloy ranted on an on tonight on Air America about how much he hated her. He practically yelled that he never supported her. Did he go from neutral to hate, or directly to hate?
    Considered opinion doesn’t work that way!

    I have seen, over and over again, this kind of reaction to powerful women who won’t kow tow to society’s standards of feminine behavior.

    It’s time for us to recognize that this is gender bias and not about HRC’s positions on issues and not about her proposed solutions.

    Here is a perfect example of cannibalism (plus trollism):
    “She was the destroyer of Paula Jones and Gennifer Flowers”
    Oh really?
    “LAS VEGAS – The one-time other woman in Hillary Rodham Clinton’s life says she’s considering casting her vote for the former first lady.”
    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22146031/

    I will not go to Huffpo anymore because it has dedicated itself to Hill Hate and Hollywood fluff.

  • an understandable debate over whether the war was worth fighting . . . whether the fight was worth winning . . . and whether we can win it.’”

    Ron Palillo voice> Ooo! Ooo ooo! Ooo! Pick me! Ooo! Ooo ooo!

  • She’s a fighter.

    I keep hearing that about Hillary and Bill as well. I agree, they’re fighters. They scrap with the best of them, they give it their all, the work late and they work hard.

    But what do they fight for? With Bill Clinton, it was a fight for his own political survival at all cost. If anything even remotely threatened to hurt his image early on — the BTU tax, gays in the military, Zoe Baird or Lani Guinier — he simply abandoned the cause in hopes of pleasing his critics. After ’94, he ran away from the rest of the party and, following the advice of Dick Morris, triangulated himself in opposition to both the right-wing Republicans and the base of the Democratic Party too. He rolled back AFDC and scrapped 60 years of government support for the poor, he worked for NAFTA and threw away the support of labor, and he stifled affirmative action with “mend it don’t end it.”

    All of this was a fight for one thing: his own political survival. The Democratic Party — and the progressive movement by extension — absolutely withered under his watch, at the state level, in the House, in the Senate. We as a party and as a movement were much, much weaker when he left office than we were when he entered, and that’s a sad indictment of his priorities.

    With the Clinton campaign this year, I see more of the same — the same narrow-minded strategy that writes off 2/3 of the states in this country and the downticket candidates in them, the same self-serving rhetoric that helps the presidential nominee and ignores the rest, the same talk about being a fighter with no evidence of causes she’s fought for. I keep hearing about health care, but the way she fought for that back in ’93 was absolutely the wrong way to go about it, and now that the political climate today is even more aligned against her (largely through no fault of her own) she has even less a chance of getting progress a second time around.

    Yes, I want a fighter. But I want a fighter for the causes this party stands for and the politicians who are going to make that happen. To my eye, that’s Obama, who’s always made his movement more about getting more people involved, more people elected, more people engaged. His presence will doubtlessly help get Democrats elected to Senate seats in Colorado, NC, and maybe even Mississippi if the cards are right, and in countless red and purple House districts across the country.

    So yes, let’s get a fighter. But let’s get a fighter who fights for all of us.

  • Nell (58) Hillary sincere? Are you kidding? Did you look into here soul when she said she wakes up every morning thinking about you?

  • TR
    You confuse me. You seem to see every word and every act by anyone remotely related to HRC in such a negative light it defies logic… and yet you say
    “is even more aligned against her (largely through no fault of her own) ”
    I believe HRC will be more successful getting stuff through than Obama.
    He is an inspiring man, but with his claim he’s going to change the way Washington does things, I know for certain he’ll get hammered if he tries. It’s the same mistake HRC made back in 93 for gods sake!

    Brilliant learns from their mistakes, genius learns from the mistakes of others.

    Hark hark, Jimmy Carter ring a bell?

    The “big state” theory has merit when considered in light of the election… it’s all or nothing. Obama may get more votes in red states than HRC would, but it’s not likely he’ll get all the delegates. It is not dirty politics to raise these issues. It is dirty politics to bury them.
    And most important, for a Democrat to beat McSame, is that the democratic nominee carry the swingstates like Ohio, Michigan and Florida. But OMG the DNC coupled with the democratic leadership in FL and MI has totally screwed us there!
    I think Rove must have hypnotized them.

  • I believe HRC will be more successful getting stuff through than Obama.
    He is an inspiring man, but with his claim he’s going to change the way Washington does things, I know for certain he’ll get hammered if he tries. It’s the same mistake HRC made back in 93 for gods sake!

    The two patterns aren’t even remotely alike. HRC in ’93 tried to push through health care reform without consulting many members of her own party, much less trying to peel away moderate Republicans. The plan she’s pushing these days is pretty much what she could’ve gotten back then with Chaffee and others on board.

    In any case, a presidential campaign predicated on 50% + 1 suggests a legislative strategy that would work the same way. If Obama can get more and better Democrats elected, he’ll have bigger margins and more wiggle room to work with. The polls show, for instance, that he’s a positive boon to Udall in Colorado while Hillary would be a drag. Same in NC and Miss., and elsewhere. We have a filibuster-proof Senate majority within reach if Obama’s the nominee at the top of the ticket, but not with Hillary.

    The “big state” theory has merit when considered in light of the election… it’s all or nothing.

    Which is why it doesn’t matter a whit that Hillary edged out Obama in NY or CA or OH during the primary race– the margin of victory there doesn’t matter, a Democrat will assuredly take them in the fall. The real issue is the swing states, where Obama has run better and still polls better.

    And yes, HRC doesn’t deserve 90% of the hatred she gets from the right-wing loons, but it’s there and it’s a real obstacle for her, regardless of how it came about. Obama can win people over she hasn’t and never will be able to win.

  • TR
    OK, gotta get both sides on board. Hillary mistake Obama won’t make.
    Obama is going to change how Washington works by convincing both sides that everything needs to be different now. OK guys. Got that? 🙂

    Ohio is purple. As is MI, FL and PA.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_state

    Hillary would carry all of those I think.

    This is a civil discussion and I appreciate it!
    I want a dem to win, just like you. And I think either candidate has a real shot.

  • Obama is going to change how Washington works by convincing both sides that everything needs to be different now. OK guys. Got that?

    Did I say that? Did I?

    Go back and read what I wrote and for once – just once – stop putting the fake-idiot interpretation of the Clinton campaign on it. Jesus, you Clinton people insist over and over again that Obama just wants to clap his hands and make everybody play nice and, gosh, how naive that is! That’s absolute bullshit. And either you know it’s bullshit and you’re being disingenuous here, or you don’t know it and you’re revealing your total ignorance and lack of reading comprehension from what I’ve posted twice here.

    Read what I said. Read it. I said that Obama has an electoral strategy and an outreach program which by every identifable metric – primary results, polling data, endorsements from red/purple state politicans – is more likely to result in the election of more Democrats.

    We have a Senate map this year in which the Republicans are playing defense in purple and red states, places where Obama is polling much better against McCain than Clinton is – Colorado, Mississippi, NC, etc. are ones I have specifically mentioned, and mentioned twice now. We have a House map in which 26 Republican incumbents are retiring, again largely in areas where Obama does well.

    With Obama at the top of the ticket, we have a chance to win many more Senate seats and House seats than we could with Clinton, who’s going to run a narrow 16-state strategy and write off the rest of the country or, worse, motivate the Clinton-hating GOP base to come out to the polls. Obama’s out there campaigning in districts that we have a shot at, while the Clinton people keep insulting all these voters by telling them that they “don’t matter.”

    That’s what it boils down to. Congressional majorities are the key to enacting real progressive change, not this bullshit argument that the Clinton people keep saying is the Obama plan of magically making everyone play nice. We have a potential for a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate within reach and if we get it, we can tell the assholes in the GOP to go to hell because we don’t need them. We have a major advantage in the House within reach, and if we get that the Patrick McHenrys of the world will be rendered absolutely pointless. And all the data we have shows that Obama is the best top-ticket candidate to make that happen.

    I’m trying very hard to keep this a civil discussion, Nell, but if you keep ignoring my arguments and substituting what I say with some moronic Mark Penn strawmen you can more easily attack, then I’m done talking to you. You can just keep talking to the imaginary Obama opponent you’ve created in your mind.

  • And yes, HRC doesn’t deserve 90% of the hatred she gets from the right-wing loons, but it’s there and it’s a real obstacle for her, regardless of how it came about. Obama can win people over she hasn’t and never will be able to win.

    Nell, I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt that you misread this — a statement about Obama being able to win over more independent voters– as a statement about reaching out to Republicans in Congress. That’s not what I meant, and I think any fair rereading shows it, but maybe that’s where you went wrong.

    But goddammit, this Hillary theme of mocking Obama as clapping his hands and parting the clouds just pisses me off. Clinton and her campaign keep mocking him as the naive one, but frankly, she’s naive if she thinks she can get a damn thing done without strong congressional majorities. And I haven’t seen anything in her campaign which suggests they get the fact that it’s not just about electing a president, it’s about elected a new Democratic wave to Congress.

  • I don’t care which dem wins because a McCain presidency dooms our country. Period.

    Both dem candidates are strong. I don’t like the path the primary season has taken, and it sours me on Clinton but she is stronger than McCain. I have never torn into Clinton, I have torn into the tactics.

    As for the 527’s, no matter who the dem candidate is, the 527’s will do their thing. They are not about truth and never have been. The Swift Boat 527’s weren’t about truth. No matter who the dem is, they will be swiftboated. And lies, lies, and more lies will be what we live with for months to come.

    Hillary hasn’t yet released her taxes. What’s in them that will become the talking point 24/7 which could derail her as many want Wright to do to Obama?

    To say that the 527’s are going to skewer Obama, it doesn’t matter who, it doesn’t matter what, truth is never about what they do. It’s all about lies.

    As I said before, Bill Clinton had time to recover from Gennifler Flowers. And he won the presidency. Wright is but one bump for Obama, and he has handled it well. We have yet to see how HRC will handle something like that.

    And while the goopers in charge don’t have a ton of cash, the different conservative groups do. We can expect alot to be thrown at us no matter whose name is on the ticket. It’s just what they do. Obama or Clinton…either way, it is going to be a bumpy ride.

  • Why has Sen. Obama changed his tune about seating Florida delegates?

    And why doesn’t he support a do-over there? He told Florida reporters in Sept, after attending a Tampa fundraiser, that he would “do the right thing” and seat Florida’s delegates if he was the presumptive Democratic nominee. Does he really want more transparency and honesty in politics and government? Or are those “just words”?

    Here’s the link for anybody interested in his September position on Florida.

    http://www2.tbo.com/content/2007/sep/30/obama-vows-do-whats-right/?news-breaking

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