The wrong argument: if Bill helped you, you owe Hillary

When it comes to the Clinton campaign’s response to Bill Richardson’s support for Barack Obama, it was a little striking to hear Mark Penn dismiss the governor with such a cavalier attitude: “The time that he could have been effective has long since passed,” Penn said, “I don’t think it is a significant endorsement in this environment.”

Given that both Clintons were still leaning on Richardson as recently as a week ago, it seemed like an odd thing to say.

But that was nothing compared to where some campaign surrogates were prepared to go. (via Atrios)

…Mr. Richardson stopped returning Mr. Clinton’s calls days ago, Mr. Clinton’s aides said. And as of Friday, Mr. Richardson said, he had yet to pick up the phone to tell Mr. Clinton of his decision.

The reaction of some of Mr. Clinton’s allies suggests that might have been a wise decision. “An act of betrayal,” said James Carville, an adviser to Mrs. Clinton and a friend of Mr. Clinton.

“Mr. Richardson’s endorsement came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing is appropriate, if ironic,” Mr. Carville said, referring to Holy Week.

In all likelihood, this should probably just be dismissed as an over-heated reaction from an overly-enthusiastic campaign surrogate.

But I’d argue the Judas comparison actually points to an inherent contradiction with the Clinton campaign’s pitch that has existed for months.

I mentioned this yesterday, but this exchange has been in my head since it happened immediately after the Iowa caucuses.

The preternaturally jolly [Terry] McAuliffe is a good mad to have spinning for you in a pinch. But his good cheer dimmed when I asked him about Bill Richardson, who appears to have made an 11th-hour deal to throw his supporters to Obama [in the Iowa caucuses].

“How many times did [Clinton] appoint him?” McAuliffe marveled. “Two? U.N. Ambassador and Energy Secretary?” He looked at me, half-glaring, awaiting confirmation. “I don’t know,” I joked, “but who’s counting?” “I am,” McAuliffe said firmly.

The reason this stuck with me is the same reason I found the Judas comparison so striking. As the argument goes, Bill Clinton did a lot to help Bill Richardson, so he should feel an obligation to support Bill Clinton’s wife. To do otherwise is a “betrayal.”

But if we accept Hillary Clinton’s rhetoric at face value, there’s no treachery here at all. To hear the senator tell it, she’s running as her own person. She should be judged on her merits, not her last name. Her campaign isn’t the restoration of Clinton rule; it’s the candidacy of one qualified U.S. senator, running on her own record and her own qualifications.

Except when it isn’t.

Why should it matter if someone who Bill Clinton helped endorses Barack Obama? Why, exactly, does Carville think the “timing is appropriate” in relation to Judas? Why is Terry McAuliffe counting how many jobs Richardson got from the former president?

It’s likely because, when push comes to shove, the distinction between Hillary Clinton’s candidacy and Bill Clinton’s presidency is not quite as great as the campaign ostensibly believes. The message isn’t subtle — if Bill helped you, you owe Hillary.

This is a mistake. Hillary Clinton is a strong candidate with tremendous skills. She’d make a fine president. But seeing her top supporters arguing publicly that she and her husband are one in the same, and that her campaign really is about restoring Clinton rule, does more harm than good.

Honestly, I’m glad it takes him off the short list for VP.

Or is this so that he can get on the new short-list?

Either way, don’t care. A bit late on the endorsement, tho. Bandwagon sailed. Or something.

  • But if we accept Hillary Clinton’s rhetoric at face value, there’s no treachery here at all. To hear the senator tell it, she’s running as her own person. She should be judged on her merits, not her last name. Her campaign isn’t the restoration of Clinton rule; it’s the candidacy of one qualified U.S. senator, running on her own record and her own qualifications.

    As Lynda Obst pointed out, this Boomer Female Chauvinist wouldn’t have been known outside of the small circle of a law firm, had she not made her way to power the old-fashioned way: she married it, and sticks to it like glue no matter what Billy Bozo does with his lies, his betrayals and his crimes.

  • Little Eva expects all the good Peronistas to remember the good old days, or else. “Don’t cry for me, Arkansas!”

  • Ouch. So, Crissa says Richardson’s endorsement doesn’t matter, and the Tom calls him a “Goddamned traitor . . . money-grubbing southern-fried scumball.” Sounds like Hillary and Bill are trolling the blog. Which goes to the very thesis of this post. I guess the Clintonistas do want it both ways.

  • The only one arguing that they are the same is you (this blog).

    Does anyone remember the early column by Steve Clemons about Richardson’s attitudes about and dealings with women in his own administration? If you do, then this endorsement by Richardson will make perfect sense.

    Richardson all but endorsed Obama when he stated that the person with the delegate lead should be nominated, and also hinted that Clinton should step aside. This comes as no surprise. The only question is why Richardson waited so long to make it — that is probably where loyalty came in.

  • We’ve suffered through two terms of an administration that prizes loyalty above all else, with disastrous consequences. I’m not eager for two more rounds of the same.

  • La Cosa Nostra – Italian for “our thing” – has a life of its own, morality defined by private values, not social ones. The Clinton Crime Family is starting to behave much like the Bush Crime Family. Government of laws, not men, is a fragile plant indeed.

  • Clinton Bush… Bush Clinton…
    Clinton Clinton, Bush Bush…

    Families + dynasties = An irrational demand for loyalty.

    Notice how the frame gets placed: It is all about the Clinton’s helping Richardson.
    Not Richardson being selected to help America because he was the best choice for these positions. That’s the way family dynasties play, and that’s why the Dems have been so absent of leaders of late.

    Richardson’s defection is huge. Barack is indeed on his way. The democratic party will be re-invigorated once the Clinton family and their demand for brand loyalty have exited stage right.

    Coincidentally:
    The republicans need to jettison the Bush family in the years ahead if they hope to rebuild a party of ideas again too.

  • I’ve talked to several Clintonistas who say that the reason they support Hillary is that they like Bill and want him back. Camp Clinton definitely wants it both ways.

  • I think its particularly telling that the position here seems to be that Clinton “helped” Richardson rather than the other way around. He took a job that was offered and succeeded well in therefore helping then President Clinton maintain his status as an effective President. If anything, he owes Richardson.

    The idea that someone owes you something other than doing the job they are asked to do is one of the clearest signs of assumptive privilege that I can think of. I have been saying all along that I really don’t mind HRC, but this sort of stuff really rankles.

  • Oh Clinton…
    Hillary said, “Yes! I will take money from lobbies.”
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BclzL97qfdk&feature=related

    The Clinton’s are doing a good job of keeping there campaign fraud trail out of the media.
    Trial date to be set in Paul vs. Clinton on February 21, 2008 in Los Angeles Superior Court
    http://www.hillaryproject.com/index.php?%2Fen%2Fstory-details%2Ftrial_date_to_be_set_in_paul_vs_clinton_on_february_21_2008%2F

    Hillary Clinton’s New “DON’T FORGET” Ad for PA.
    Hillary got job BECAUSE of “Bill Clinton”.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fT4bX4obJM0

    Think about it before you vote!!!

  • The “Hillary=Jesus” subtext takes the entitlement mentality of the Clinton campaign to a shocking new extreme.

  • Richardson would have helped Senator Obama more if he had endorsed before Texas.

    It’s sad really because I think Bill Richardson was the best candidate the Democrats had. Sadly he was not the best campaigner.

  • The rest of Hillary’s 2008 race is a myth, deception and revenge. Unfortunately, that is not what Party politics is all about. Even if there were re-votes in FL and MI, she would not have won the nomination. She currently needs at least 64% of the remaining pledged delegates. It is an insurmountable task to achieve. She has never won 5 races in a row. She is expected to LOSE in NC and Oregon but WIN in West Virginia, PA and Kentucky.

    In terms of popular votes, she is 700,000 votes shy. The highest popular votes she has so far received were in New York and Arkansas. Even if she had the most popular votes, it would not matter. The first tie-breaker in the nomination process is the number of pledged delegates. Unless a candidate is caught with under garments down or dies, the Super delegates will simply award nomination to the candidate who has the most pledged delegates. Nancy Pelosi, the 2008 DNC Convention Chair has recently re-emphasized this point. What else does she need to know?

    Hillary is not staying in the race because she is a fighter but to repay her financial losses and to vent out her anger against a wrong party which is her own. At the end of February, her debts were nearly $9 million. As a result, she has nearly doubled the volume of e-mail solicitations, showcases her Web site more at events and intensified online advertisements asking for small contributions.

    Hillary needs to have an exit strategy after the PA primary especially, if she fails to win by 64%. Her current strategy is not good for her personally or her party. She has so far ruined the possibility for a Dream team. And she is diminishing possibilities for future presidential runs. She needs to blame the Republican Party which over the years has ruined her public image and creditability. Mostly it is a payback for her departure from the Republican Party, in her early political life.

    She is in serious need of help to overcome her nomination failure. This is where her peers including Bill Clinton are to step in and offer confidential counseling to heal her wounds and boost her morale. Bill should give precedence to the party that gave him presidency twice than the selfish ego of his wife. Hillary is seasoned politician but she has recently been very reckless in her trade. The cause of Hillary’s failure is not her gender, the Democratic Party or Barack Obama but her lifetime political involvement that created a major machinery against Hillary.

  • Richardson would have helped Senator Obama more if he had endorsed before Texas.

    Oh, definitely. But better late than never, I suppose. He’s showing more guts than some of the other bigwigs who are waiting this one out.

  • Ok, yet another bridge to far…come on, insinuating that Richardson is akin to Judas?

    And i won’t even get into some of the other explanations of Judas’ action, or the treatment he gets from the Gnostics rather than the “orthodox” forms of Christianity.

    Maybe Sen Clinton should use taxpayer dollars, ala Sen McCain, to make a campaign trip to the Philippines this weekend…they’re doing real crucifixions there to celebrate Easter.

  • Tom calls him a “Goddamned traitor . . . money-grubbing southern-fried scumball.”

    He was referring to Carville, not Richardson.

    She has so far ruined the possibility for a Dream team. And she is diminishing possibilities for future presidential runs.

    Obama was already unlikely to pick her for VP (she wouldn’t take it), nor she him (he’d be crazy to enter what amounts to a three-person administration with Bill as the actual second banana). Plus, with all that’s happened, an Obama/Clinton ticket would be the shotgun wedding to end all shotgun weddings. In addition, her only realistic possibility for future campaigns comes if Obama loses. (If he wins, he’ll be the automatic 2012 nominee; if he wins a second term his VP will be the automatic 2016 nominee. She’ll be 73 in 2020.) So for Hillary, it’s now or never. That’s why she’s fighting so hard.

  • Yeah, Snakehead is definitely an expert on “betrayal.” Goddamned traitor that he is, money-grubbing southern-fried scumball

    I don’t even watch CNN anymore because I got fed up with his constant Clinton cheerleading.

    The idea that Richardson is a traitor is ridiculous. He paid his dues; he did his job and then moved on. I don’t see how the fact that he once worked for the Clintons means that he is forever in their debt, and obligated to support them for auld lang syne. If the Clintons think Richardson is a traitor, I guess he is in good company, because many prominent Democrat leaders are supporting Obama.

  • Richardson would have helped Senator Obama more if he had endorsed before Texas.

    The above is from a comment here, but it was also a Clinton talking point yesterday.

    I’m guessing the Clintons still have not read Obama’s Philadelphia speech. One of his points was that we need to be respectful of each other’s cultural differences and come together as a nation. The Clintons’ logic is essentially that Richardson is nothing more than a Latino.

  • Shorter Terry McAuliffe: What part of political patronage doesn’t Bill Richardson get?

    Can Mark Penn sink to greater depths of stupidity than he already has? Apparently so. How many times does Hillary need to be shown she has a huge political liability on her hands with Mr. Penn? Heck of a job Pennie!

  • I don’t see how any of the ‘nefarious plots’ attributed to Hillary could possibly work to her advantage — that doesn’t mean I think they are imaginary, just doomed to failure. There are only three ways Hillary can get to the Presidency, and her actions have made them all impossible.

    She could somehow convince the Superdelegates — many of whom are elected officials that have to run again in 2008 or 2010 — to give her the nomination. But that ain’t gonna happen.

    She could make Obama so unelectable in 2008 that McCain wins — which I still insist ain’t gonna happen either — and then the party turns to her in 2012, except that, despite her idea that she can enforce her reality on voters, if McCain won she’d be looked on as the Ralph Nader of 2008. (Especially if the McCain campaign used videos of her speeches against Obama.)

    She could accept her position in the new Administration as a power base, subtly undermine Obama’s plans, break with him, and run against him in 2012. Except that, with the futile race she’s running, I hope Obama is smart enough not to trust her. Remember when we were talking about her becoming the new Majority Leader? Not any more — but I hope it goes to Chris Dodd. And, if she’d bowed out gracefully, she could have had her pick of Cabinet positions — and would have been a wonderful choice for Health and Human Services. But Obama may be a ‘nice guy’ but he ain’t stupid — and he did get his training in Chicago politics, as one of our trolls keeps reminding us. He’s going to be watching his back very carefully, and if Hillary pulls a Lieberman, he’ll have enough Democratic Senators that he can afford the break.

  • Bill Clinton=Jesus?
    Clinton era’s done!! 90’s politic tactics’ done.
    it’s time to move on to a new chapter.

  • Isn’t this a little like Bush’s “Political Capital” argument? Like you can build up a supply of good will, and then spend it on doing stuff that doesn’t serve your constituency. There is a real danger of thinking like this, both for the politicians and for our policy.

  • Bill Richardson, a longtime friend and ally to the Clintons for years shows there is no loyalty in politics. Obama looks like he will most likely win the nomination and Richardson is nothing more than bandwagoner, using his Latino blood to try and sway that vote which Obama will probably need come November. Probably trying to go for a cabinet job or higher. Good for you Richardson, you have trully shown that character and loyalty have nothing to do with the Democratic Party anymore.

  • Bill Richardson, a longtime friend and ally to the Clintons for years shows there is no loyalty in politics.

    Sorry Manny, but there IS loyalty in politics, and it’s generally a bad thing. Bushies like loyalty. When they appoint someone as Attorney General, they consider that AG to be their own personal lawyer. Same with everyone else they appoint: They give you the job and now you’re expected to do their bidding. Their entire system is built on cronyism and loyalty, and it’s one of the reasons why they keep screwing things up. Meritocracy will always beat cronyocracy.

    The fact that Hillary wants loyalty is one of the reasons I prefer Obama. Richardson owes Hillary nothing. Nor do the rest of us. If she can’t win this on personal merits and has to call on past favors to succeed, she deserves to fail.

  • Richardson added this to the claim of loyalty:

    he “owes a lot to the Clinton family but I served well. I paid it back in service to the country.”

    Isn’t that the loyalty we need right now?

    Sounds exactly like his statement that we serve the nation not the ideology of a man.

  • Oye Essaee wassappening. If youz a latin hombre or latina vote fo Obama. Black or Latin soy or is d same sing. Richardson is un hombre latin, you mus vote fo Obama cause he say so.

  • Like Richardson said yesterday, it’s time for Clinton to step down, and the Democrats to come together. Obama has two former presidential candidates backing him now. They should know who has the best chance with the Republicans in Nov. Just because Obama did not bring up the past with Clinton, do not think the republicans won’t. When the Clintons tax records, Bills’ Foundation, and Library funding sources are reveled, it could destroy the party for decades. There is 1/2 BILLION dollars in funding alone to explain! If it were all kosher, it would have been known long ago. There is an ongoing fraud lawsuit in California, which the media has not been reporting as well. There will be another time for a woman to run the Whitehouse. It’s not this woman, Hillary Clinton, not this time.

  • I’m sorry, but why would the Clinton camp think that Richardson “owed” them anything??? Did he not get his cabinet posts based, at least in part, on merit? And what about Richardson’s loyalty to the PARTY? Maybe he’d just like to see the Democrats have a chance in November. Maybe he’s just as tired of the Clintons as the rest of us…

  • If Richardson’s endorsement is no big deal as Penn tried to claim, then why are they so upset enough to compare him to Judas? As always, Hillary and her people are masters of contradictions and duplicity. The is the chief reason why I am so so tired of her and anything to do with her. How long more do we have to suffer ? From an American abroad

  • People are missing an equal, OUTRAGEOUS problem.

    THE CLINTONS CONTINUE TO LEGITIMIZE MCCAIN!!!

    They have long stopped acting in the interest of Dems securing the White house and more Senate and House seats… which is also key for getting the Judiciary and the Supreme Courts somewhere closer to moderation.

    The Superdelegates need to put a stop to this for the sake of the Party.

    It is clear that the Clintons will sacrifice the ENTIRE PARY for their remote chance to return to the White House. Why continue to enable that???

  • The Clintons’ original strategy when Obama looked like a threat to them was to throw enough mud at him and raise enough suspicion about him, to make him stagger out of the campaign, ceding the nomination to Hillary. Well, this strategy didn’t quite work out. Since it’s becoming more and more unlikely that Clinton will get the nomination the game plan seems to continue with the mud-throwing so Obama will be too debilitated to defeat McCain come November. Meanwhile, prop up McCain and praise him to the skies,planting more seeds in the doubts of voters about Obama’s capabilities. McCain wins the election, but only serves one term. Hillary then emerges on the scene, ready to run again in 2012. I hope that I am wrong about this. It would be nice if the Clintons weren’t as bad as I now think.

  • My husband and I remembered the good days of Bill in the WH back in the 90’s and initially thought a vote for Hilliary would be a vote for Bill. We liked the 90”s. Anyway, I started to read this blog and started to see things in a different light. Correctly, Hilliary can not have it both ways. She is running on the coat tails of Bill. I surely don’t like how she is running her campaign and I see her doing a lot of bitchy things that are hurting the Dem party. From her point of view she has a lot of people supporting her and giving her money and in her heart of hearts it’s not time to drop out. (Although I wish she would exit stage left). I am glad now that I voted for Obama in the MN caucuses.

  • I thought Presidents select cabinet members to perform the tasks associated with that position. If it is an act of rewarding the people who gave money or covered up presidents wrong doings, then we as a nation better take to the streets and do something about it. My boss hired me to do some urgent work that he needed done. If I continue to turn in good work, I get to keep the job. If not I will be fired. Richarson was hired to do a job; he did it well; he was given another job; he did it well. As another person said earlier, Richardson owes the Clintons nothing; Clinton owes Richardson for the good work he did for Clinton administration.

  • Silly season continues:

    Mr. Penn – would this also be insignificant had he endorsed Hillary?

    Mr. Carville i it wasn’t betrayal when Richardson was actually trying to WIN the nomination himself, but this is?

  • And just as Judas was fired as an Apostle, so James, “the Ragin’ Cajun”, needs to be fired as a panel commentator, as he has now shown for sure that he can no longer be objective, as we have all suspected.

    So, hopefully, bye, bye, Meet the Press and other of James’ gigs.

    In case he forgets, Democrats are trying to beat Republicans this time.

    (Mrs. Carville could stay on some shows though. At least we all know that she is a Republican.)

    BTW, James, the biblical analogy to Judas is poorly placed. Even if they may think so, neither Bill nor Hillary Clinton is Jesus Christ.

  • Judas took his 30 coins from the Pharisees; afterwards rejecting their value and seeking atonement for his crimes.

    Richardson has likewise rejected the value of the Clintons.

    Isn’t it fun to take a “Carville-ism,” turn it inside out, and use it against him?”

    As for Ickes, Penn, and the rest of the Clinton thugs, it’s easy to understand why they’re all getting so nasty. After the Convention, nobody’s going to want them. Penn’ll be lucky to get a job sweeping up cigarette butts in the drive-through lane at a McDonald’s….

  • Penn’ll be lucky to get a job sweeping up cigarette butts in the drive-through lane at a McDonald’s…. — Steve, @40

    Don’t count on that. Penn may be (surely is, judging by the pay) a big cog in the Clinton campaign and he may be angling for a govt job in the next Clinton administration but the Clintons aren’t his bread and butter; they’re his jam. His bread and butter comes from lobbying. I wouldn’t be surprised to hear that the — half-hearted and half-assed — job he’s been doing for Hillary is just a sideline. That he’s taken this job on on the off-chance that, once she’s in the WH, making sure that his primary customers are taken care of will be that much easier.

    I don’t much like either of the Clintons but Penn is a poisonous, scummy, sleaze.

  • crazyworld 2046, @ 41&42,

    I haven’t heard that one before, but I can’t say I’m surprised. Getting — literally — in bed with the enemy never struck me as a smart course of action, which is why I had doubts about this marriage from the moment I heard of it. Especially since Matalin is not some empty-headed bimbo (a la Laura Bush), while Carville… Like so many other men before and after him, lets his “lower brain” take charge much too often.

  • Hillary is like Jesus Christ?

    I know Jesus Christ
    Jesus Christ is a friend of mine
    Hillary, you’re no Jesus Christ


  • “Mr. Richardson’s endorsement came right around the anniversary of the day when Judas sold out for 30 pieces of silver, so I think the timing is appropriate, if ironic,” Mr. Carville said, referring to Holy Week.

    Is this the DLC’s way of addressing “faith voters”?

  • Richardson should not have to worry about loyalty to the Clinton’s. Obama has repeatedly called for Hillary’s superdelegates to jump ship and cross over to him, because their constituents voted for him. Richardson’s constituents voted for Hillary. In fact Richardson’s own Latino people voted overwhelmingly for Hillary, an estimated 28,270 votes for Hill compared to an estimated 16780 for Obama (extrapolated from exit polls). Obama got his start in the Illinois legislature from a woman named Alice L. Palmer. She was a very popular Illinois state senator who was planning to run for U.S. Congress. She told Obama she would support him in his run to take her seat, but if she changed her mind or her run for U.S. Congress was not successful, she wanted to keep her seat. Obama agreed and she promoted him vigorously. Then when her own bid for congress failed, she told him she intended to keep her seat. Not only would Obama not drop out, he successfully sued to have her thrown off the ballot. So, loyalty does not really play a role in politics. So Richardson does not need to be loyal to the Clintons, to the general populace of his state who voted, nor to his Latino base (which comprised 32% of the votes cast). He just needs to actually believe, as did Alice Palmer, that Obama is a man of his word.

  • Richardson is brave to not cow down to them and a hero who stands up for what’s right.

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