McCain’s century-long problem

Democrats seem to have found the one criticism that gets John McCain angrier than anything else — bring up his comments about keeping U.S. troops in Iraq for “100 years.” Every time a high profile Dem (Clinton, Obama, Dean, et al) mentions this, he becomes enraged and insists his comments have been mischaracterized.

It’s true that McCain did not, as a point of fact, indicate that he wants to see the ongoing war continue until 2108, but rather, he envisions thousands of American troops “maintaining a presence” in the country for 100 years, after some semblance of stability has been established. They’re not, to be fair, the same thing.

As far as the McCain campaign is concerned, this realization should effectively end the controversy. Joe Klein argues that McCain’s confused about this, too.

The problem with John McCain’s 100 years in Iraq formulation isn’t that he’s calling for 95 more years of combat — he isn’t — but that he thinks you can have a long-term basing arrangement in Iraq similar to those we have in Germany or Korea. That betrays a fairly acute lack of knowledge about both Iraq and Islam. It may well be possible to station U.S. troops in small, peripheral kingdoms like Dubai or Kuwait, but Iraq is — and has always been — volatile, tenuous, centrally-located and nearly as sensitive to the presence of infidels as Saudi Arabia. It is a terrible candidate for a long-term basing agreement.

Quite right. I’d just add, however, that McCain already knows this. In fact, he’s admitted as much.

The point seems to have been largely forgotten, but back in November, after months of insisting that Korea could be a model for a long-term troop presence in Iraq, McCain abandoned this position, saying he doesn’t want to use Korea as a model, and adding that the “nature of the society in Iraq” and the “religious aspects” of the country make withdrawal inevitable.

Soon after, McCain went back to his original position again, saying that a Korean model is entirely appropriate. So, for those keeping score at home, McCain 1) endorsed a multi-decade presence in Iraq; 2) denounced a multi-decade presence in Iraq; 3) re-embraced his first point; and 4) blasted those who agreed with his second argument as being incompetent.

At the risk of sounding impolite, this guy is starting to make Bush look like he’s engaged and knowledgeable.

Klein added:

…McCain’s frequent “You don’t know anything” tirades about national security might be more effective if he had a better sense of the war in question. When I asked him about Basra in January, he assured me that it was “not a problem.” Last week, he seemed to think it was a good idea for the militia that calls itself the Iraqi Army to attack the militia that calls itself the Mahdi Army. So did George W. Bush, who posited it as the good guys fighting the “terrorists.” This betrayed a fundamental lack of knowledge about Shi’ite politics, something any good President or presidential contender — especially one who styles himself a “national security” expert — needs to study. McCain surely knows more about the military than Barack Obama does — and Obama certainly needs to learn more — but McCain’s carelessness and oversimplification, and wrong analysis, when it comes to the situation in Iraq puts him in a surprisingly vulnerable position.

I think this is largely right. On the point about McCain knowing more about the military than Obama, this may be at least partially true. Asked for the differences between a brigade and a battalion, for example, Obama would probably have to stop and think about it, while McCain probably wouldn’t.

But if we get beyond military definitions and start thinking about the basics of international events, Obama out-classes McCain every day of the week. Just in the past couple of weeks, we’ve seen McCain express bizarre and surprising confusion about everything from Basra, to al Qaeda, to Iran, to Moqtada al-Sadr, to reconciliation. We’re not talking about minor verbal gaffes; McCain simply got all of the relevant facts wrong about Iraq basics — the kind of things one would know from reading a daily newspaper.

What’s more, it’s getting worse for McCain, not better. I suspected that once McCain secured the Republican nomination, he’d have time to play catch-up, and start getting detailed briefings on current events. The mistakes he was making in January would be corrected by March.

Except, they haven’t been. McCain actually seems more confused now than ever. If he weren’t running on a platform based on military and national security expertise, this would merely be humiliating. But that he doesn’t seem to understand his principal campaign issues doesn’t speak well to his strengths as a candidate.

The sooner the Democratic contest ends, the more attention will be paid to McCain’s bewilderment.

It’s a bad day for you when Joe Klein (motto: “Acute Lack of Knowledge Never Prevents Me From Loudly Opining”) calls you underinformed and overexpressive on a topic.

  • The 100 Year War mantra has the potential of being just as effective as Flip-Flopper or Al Gore Thinks He Invented The Internet, etc. No voter will ever parse what McCain actually said. The important thing is that the idea that McCain wants the war to last 100 years must stick to him like glue. That is all that matters.

    It’s about time we took a successful maneuver from the assholes’ playbook and turned it on them.

  • New slogan for the Republican campaign: “If you liked the guy who was a C student at Yale, you’ll love the guy who graduated from the Naval Academy near the bottom of his class.”

  • Is he getting the correct information and is just not able to remember the facts ?
    Either way it’s really disturbing .

  • I think the electorate is less concerned with the Iraq occupation 100 years from now than they are with where it will be, say, 4 years from now. With McCain, we’ll still be there, bleeding money and losing troops in an incoherent war on behalf of one or another pro-Iranian shiite faction. With Obama, we won’t be. McCain’s “100 years” statement helps make that clear.

    The fact that McCain has flip-flopped on this par for the course. As others have noted, he’s flighty and superficial (part of why he’s such a media darling).

  • What some enterprising bloggers [ahem] need to do is to remind people, with very concrete examples for maximum effect, what life in America (or the World) was like 100 years ago. When Joe and Josephine Six-Pack / Briefcase understand just how much has changed in that time, it will really bring home to them what an extraordinary thing McCain is envisioning (admittedly, only as a possibility). Think Orville and Wilbur, and just run with it . . .

  • You people never quit. Now you’re attacking McCain’s mother?! I went to school with her. She is a courageous and intelligent lady who put everything into raising her children to be honorable and patriotic. Is there any woman at all who escapes your bully-boy ridicule? If I dressed up like a man and whined about hope and change, would you finally listen to me?

  • It’s true that McCain did not, as a point of fact, indicate that he wants to see the ongoing war continue until 2108, but rather, he envisions thousands of American troops “maintaining a presence” in the country for 100 years, after some semblance of stability has been established. They’re not, to be fair, the same thing.

    I’ll be fair to John McCain the day he stops lying his ass off and/or endangering the planet. He’s a dangerous lunatic, and so far he’s doing quite well in the polls. He needs to be torn down or we will get Bush Part 3.

    Just in the past couple of weeks, we’ve seen McCain express bizarre and surprising confusion about everything from Basra, to al Qaeda, to Iran, to Moqtada al-Sadr, to reconciliation. We’re not talking about minor verbal gaffes; McCain simply got all of the relevant facts wrong about Iraq basics — the kind of things one would know from reading a daily newspaper.

    The problem with that is that Joe Public knows even less than McCain about middle eastern politics. Half the country doesn’t want to know about it, all they want is a tough guy in charge, regardless of how ill-informed he might be.

    We are in grave danger of repeating what happened in the last two presidential elections. Gore and Kerry were (and are) vastly more informed than Bush, who everyone knew was an idiot. And yet half the American people were stupid enough to vote for Bush. Have they learned their lesson yet? I doubt it, because one thing stupid people don’t do real well is learn from their mistakes. And McCain, as stupid as he is, is vastly smarter sounding than Bush, who was, to our eternal disgrace as a country, elected twice.

    What we need to do, and IMHO the only thing we can do, is to tie McCain to Bush. Even the idiots know Bush has screwed the pooch hard, and if McCain is seen as Bush Part 3, then we’ll have a chance. Any attempts to show how stupid McCain is regarding Iraq will bounce off the people we need to convince, because they’re even dumber than he is in that area. Anyone who can be convinced that McCain is an idiot about ME politics is already on our side.

    McCain is pissed about the 100 years thing because he knows it’s that kind of simple statement which can actually cut through the chatter and penetrate the heads of the low-information voters he depends on for his election. Stupid soundbites actually work on those people, and we need to realize that or we are going to suffer yet another disastrous Republican presidency.

  • In Korea, combat ops stopped in 1953. Aside from the odd incident in the DMZ (1976 Xmas comes to mind) there hasn’t been any level of sustained guerrilla warfare by NK. This peace allowed RoK to become an economic powerhouse.

    In Iraq, Mission Accomplished was declared in 2003. Combat Ops haven’t stopped since then. This has basically destroyed the state of Iraq and turned it into a failed state like Somali.

    According to John McCain. This is the same thing.

  • The problem with John McCain’s 100 years in Iraq formulation isn’t that he’s calling for 95 more years of combat — he isn’t —…

    Yes I know. And you know.
    But why should the public know?

    It is a killer meme.
    Republicans never pause to unpack their killer memes:
    Kerry is a flip flopper. Gore invented the internet.

    Well guess what?
    McCain wants another 100 years of war. Or more…

    Don’t explain it away for them! It is killer. Rather:
    Beat their faces bloody with it until they are anemic.

  • At the risk of sounding impolite, this guy is starting to make Bush look like he’s engaged and knowledgeable.

    And Bush got 50 million votes twice.

    Remember, running a guy who doesn’t seem to know what the hell he’s talking about has given the GOP its last two two-term presidents.

  • Asked for the differences between a brigade and a battalion, for example, Obama would probably have to stop and think about it, while McCain probably wouldn’t.

    Is this a reference to Bush yesterday? He said we are still on course to reduce troop levels in Iraq by three batallions by July (I think it was July). Some Joe Lieberman wannabee whispered something and he then corrected it.

  • “….(McCain) envisions thousands of American troops “maintaining a presence” in the country for 100 years, after some semblance of stability has been established.”

    If there is some semblance of stability in Iraq in the immediate future, then why would you still need US troops there?

    What would they be doing?

  • Let’s not forget his 100, 1000, or 10000 years line, either. China will be building resorts on Mars and we’ll still be paying for this fiasco if he’s elected. I agree with Racer, though. McCain hugging Bush, every commercial, every time, with “100 years in Iraq” in the subtitle. Or better yet, this :

    http://images.huffingtonpost.com/gen/15983/original.jpg

  • I don’t really get why Sen. McCain gets a pass from everybody (including you CB) for knowing about the military. He flew jets onto and off of ships. Does this mean he’ll know the first thing about ground combat in general or fighting an insurgency specifically? No. You cited the question of the difference between a brigade and battalion as something Obama might have to think about. I wouldn’t be shocked if McCain had to think about it as well, since the Navy doesn’t have those kinds of formations. Much like I would be hard-pressed to tell you the difference between and Wing and a Squadron or how many ships are in a carrier group.
    And really, knowing this kind of information isn’t that important. I don’t expect my President to tell me how to fight a war. I just expect him or her to use me effectively to protect our nation. In short, we need a President who knows when to say “go” and, perhaps more importantly, when not to.

  • The problem with quoting McSame is that one can find another point in time when he said exactly the opposite, as you have so aptly demonstrated. The 100 years thing will stick though, and Obama needs to hammer it. Also, put some young people in the “town meeting” audiences to ask questions. Young people really piss McSame off, and he insults them, and looks petty and stupid in doing it.
    This guy is a MORON who has never dealt with his PTSD issues, and he will, when pressed hard, get pissed off and say something insulting. Obama needs to get him pissed off by challenging him hard, and we can watch McSame melt down and self-immolate.

  • Having a President who is steeped in military trivia (battalion vs. brigade, wing vs. squadron) is just an invitation to micromanagement. The president’s job isn’t to know this stuff, any more than it’s a blogger’s job to know SQL calls or Unix commands. The president sets military objectives in accordance with policy, and counts on the services to execute.

    Which is the real problem with McCain – he seems completely incapable of comprehending the big picture except in kindergarten terms. Kind of like Bush.

  • jimBob got it right.

    The problem with McCan’t 100 years is that you first have to get to stability before you can have it. And despite what McCan’t thinks, we are not going to get that, as al Maliki’s failed operation against Basra and the Mahdi Army demonstrated, any time soon (if ever).

    So the fair way to pound McCan’t is ask him how many more Americans will have to die before no more Americans die in Iraq. 40?, 400?, 4000?, 40,000?

    More Americans died in Vietnam after Nixon was elected to end the war than died there before 1969.

    As for his recent lapses, especially confusing Shi’ite militias with al Qeada in Iraq, he is either ignorant and too stupid to correct that (not unlikely with a bottom of his class student) or his is deliberately conflating the two as a way to justify a dangerous escalation with Iran.

    If the first, we are getting four more years of the Bush Administration.
    If the second, we are getting four more years of the Cheney Administration.

    Neither is good.

  • McCain surely knows more about the military than Barack Obama does — Klein

    But, does he? Or is it like Hillary’s “35 yrs of experience”? He may know what the different forms of scrambled eggs and chevrons on epaulets mean — ie he knows whom to salute — but, beyond that?

  • McCain has had his comment distorted and there is no reason to do so because he was still wrong in looking at his comments on Iraq as actually intended.

    McCain is not envisioning 100 years of being mixed up in a conflict as at present. However he is wrong in seeing Iraq as being comparable to South Korea in terms of remaining there to attempt to stabilize the situation.

    The key thing which McCain fails to realize is that the very presence of the United States in Iraq is both a source of instability in the region and winds up adversely affecting the United States.

    I posted on this a few days ago while discussing Zbigniew Brzezinski’s recent op-ed:

    http://liberalvaluesblog.com/?p=3083

  • One thing McCain is also neglecting is the religious implications of our continued presence in Iraq, even post-combat. We all know that Saudi Arabia has the two holiest shrines in all of Islam, in the cities of Mecca and Medina. That was 1 reason Al-Quaida attacked us, because our mere presence in SA was an affront to all that is holy in Islam. Our infidel presence was not in those cities, but just in the country.

    Iraq has two of the most holy shrines for Shia Islam. I think in Karbala and Najaf. And so our continued presence post-combat might pose the same sort of religious anger in Iraq as it did in SA. And so we’d be there more tenuously than we were in Germany, S.Korea,Japan etc. Countries where there wasn’t or isn’t that “Crusaders” taint to our presence.

    And Lance @#20. over at TheGroupNewsblog one of them wrote a pretty searing essay on how we can get our heads around the number 4,000. Made the number much less of an abstraction for me.

  • OK, OK, so we give McCain some slack about the 100 years quote that he’s talking a peace-time occupation and not 100 years of war. BUT, McCain, like Bush, hasn’t the f*ckingest clue as to how to “win” in Iraq to bring about a time of peace. McCain’s one tool in his limited toolbox is sending in the troops to deal with international problems. Iraq is a political mess. It needs a diplomatic solution. Placing a guy in the presidency whose idea of diplomacy is to sit all the sides down and telling them to “cut the bullshit” is not going to get this problem resolved in 1 year, 4 years or 100 years. With McCain’s attitude to problem solving he is essentially saying we will have to fight a war for 100 years, whether his one-time comment really meant that or not.

  • Basing a candidacy on foreign policy is a huge mistake to begin with. But if McCain continues to weaken his claim to foreign policy expertise, Reverend Wright himself could defeat McCain in November.

  • ROTFLMLiberalAO said “Don’t explain it away for them! It is killer. Rather:
    Beat their faces bloody with it until they are anemic.”

    Agreed. The only way to fight the right’s underhanded tactics of the last few elections is to beat them at their own game. Goebbels himself would have admired some of the right’s hatchet jobs.

    Not advocating dishonesty or spin, just taking things out of context and letting the public figure it out or not.

    You know damned well they’ll be playing 10-second Wright sound bites. So be it. We can provide plenty of the same, and right from McCain’s mouth, not that of his minister.

    How about these obvious ones for starters:

    “Only the most deluded of us could doubt the necessity of this war.”;

    “I know a lot less about economics than I do about military and foreign policy issues” (after showing him get corrected by Lieberman)

    Hagee: “the Catholic church is a great whore”, followed by McCain:”I’m very proud to have Pastor John Hagee’s support.”

    Obama’s post-partisan politics be damned! I haven’t donated yet this year, but when I do, I’m going to look for the meanest, nastiest 527 group I can find, and give it all to them. Judging from past elections, there’s a pretty low bar for what “advertising” media outlets will accept.

  • Dishonest, dumb democrats and liberals. Anything to win an election, to include tossing in the white flag to terrorists. No doubt, Obama is obsessed with race and a country bashing liberal. His know nothing rock and roll followers will be very surprised when they awaken, if they ever do, and learn that he has destroyed our economy in the name of bogus global warming, has opened the flood gates for more illegals, has torpedoed our health care to unworkable EU standards, and most of all has emboldened our enemies to attack our interests. Osama would vote for Obama, clear thinking and patriotic Americans will vote for the man who understands duty, honor, country.

  • V Racer, @27,

    Obama’s “rock and roll followers”? *Obama’s*??? That’s McSame’s demographic (teens in the 50ties). With, perhaps, a dash of Clinton’s supporters. I’m 58, for goodness sake and the only reason I’m familiar with rock-and-roll is that Poland disapproved of it during its “reign” and blocked all the radio signals with it. So it didn’t burst onto our “scene” until late 60ties/early 70ties. (it’s nostalgically amusing to think that rock-and-roll and Radio Free Europe and Voice of America merited the same amount of scrutiny from our govt).

    You may think you’re Racing for Victory but you’re just spinning your old and rusty gears in place, dear…

  • V RAcer: You are really a trip:
    Economy: Recent reports from the Fed itself says its already ruined
    Illegals: Flood gates have been open for the past eight years, and we have over 12million now
    and McCain has been a facilitator to pander to Hispanic voters
    Health care: I live in the EU, and health care is cheaper, better, and universal; what’s not working about it?
    Terrorists attacking our interests: Bush let that happen also; the terrorists won’t give a crap who
    is president, they will attack us because they hate our freedoms, remember. Sarcasm noted.
    Clear thinking and patriotic Americans voted for GWB, who ducked his war, and deliberately shirked
    his duty to stay sober and fly his airplane, thus his honor and country.
    Rock and Roll: Its done more for America than John McCain, and in case you have not heard
    R&R is here to stay….the Dude abides.

  • “…it’s that kind of simple statement which can actually cut through the chatter and penetrate the heads of the low-information voters he depends on for his election. Stupid soundbites actually work on those people…”

    V Racer has graciously taken it upon him or herself to illustrate this principle in fascinating point-by-point detail for our benefit. Thanks!

  • McCain’s confusion is no minor problem. Someone I know and trust has dealt with McCain personally on some telecommunications issues. However, despite repeated explanations, McCain could not grasp the most basic concepts during their discussions of certain telecommunication issues. After spending some time with him, both my friend and his partner concluded that McCain is “about as smart as a box of rocks.”

  • sorry, my friend actually said that McCain was as “dumb” as a box of rocks (and not “smart”).

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