House Republican blasts Obama as ‘that boy’

April 15, 2008

Far-right efforts to define Barack Obama as The Other have been relatively subtle over the last couple of months. A little emphasis on Obama’s middle name here, a little talk about flag lapel pins there. We always knew what was coming, but we could also tell the Republican efforts hadn’t started in earnest.

It appears conservatives are starting to forgo the subtleties.

U.S. Rep. Geoff Davis, a Hebron Republican, compared Obama and his message for change similar to a “snake oil salesman” [at a Northern Kentucky Lincoln Day dinner].

He said in his remarks at the GOP dinner that he also recently participated in a “highly classified, national security simulation” with Obama.

“I’m going to tell you something: That boy’s finger does not need to be on the button,” Davis said. “He could not make a decision in that simulation that related to a nuclear threat to this country.”

Davis went on to call Obama a “snake oil salesman,” who “probably doesn’t understand normal Americans” because he went to Harvard.

According to news accounts, Davis’ comments were “met by laughter and applause” by his Kentucky Republican audience.

Once reporters started calling Davis’ office seeking comment, the conservative Republican lawmaker issued a written apology to Obama, saying, “[M]y poor choice of words is regrettable and was in no way meant to impugn you or your integrity. I offer my sincere apology to you and ask for your forgiveness.” His campaign spokesperson told reporters that the GOP lawmaker “simply misspoke.”

Davis’ remarks are so uniquely stupid, it’s hard to know where to start.

First, obviously, is “that boy.” The racial element of the phrase is both obvious and ugly. It’s not as if Davis is Obama’s elder — the senator is just three years younger than the Kentucky congressman.

Second, is the apology itself. Davis didn’t mean to “impugn” Obama or his “integrity.” That’s a rather odd what to respond. The problem isn’t that he attacked Obama’s integrity — Republicans do that all the time — it’s that he called a grown black man a “boy.”

Third, I’m curious about this “highly classified, national security simulation” Davis claims to have “recently” completed with Obama. If the simulation is “highly classified,” why is Davis talking about it in front of hundreds of people? Did the simulation actually happen, or is Davis making it up?

For what it’s worth, a few media outlets are picking up on this, but CNN seems to be missing the point. The network’s headline reads, “GOP congressman apologizes to Obama for ‘snake-oil’ remark.”

No, the problem is a right-wing Southern Republican congressman called the first credible African-American presidential candidate “that boy.” By emphasizing “snake-oil,” CNN is badly missing the point.

but, but, but……we have to concentrate on “bitter-gate” – that’s what’s really important, you know.

  • I’m certain that all the African Americans in Kentucky would happily agree with the representative that there’s a long standing friendly custom of local white guys calling them “boy”. It goes along with the rubbing of heads and the cool, tricky handshakes they do. It’s just a friendly banter.

    Yeah. Boy.

  • Davis went on to call Obama a “snake oil salesman,” who “probably doesn’t understand normal Americans” because he went to Harvard.

    I can understand why Davis thinks Harvard only produces “snake oil salesmen”, since Bush got his MBA there. But what an elitist comment to suggest that “normal Americans” will only elect an uneducated president.

  • Davis went on to call Obama a “snake oil salesman,” who “probably doesn’t understand normal Americans” because he went to Harvard.

    Davis must be confusing Harvard Law School where Obama went with Harvard Business School where Davis’ president went.

    Bush definitely is not a good advertisement for the value of an education from Harvard Business, since Bush doesn’t seem to understand anything.

  • LawdHaveMercy! Old Geoff (his parents didn’t know how to spell Jeff) done gone and embarrassed the good folks of Ky. You folks in Ky need to clean house, ditch that silly Mitch while your at it too,

  • What with “simulation” and “boy”, sounds to me like the linguistic stylings of George W. Bush meets the racial sensitivities of Strom Thurmond –that Geoff boy’s got straight-shootin’ gooper middle management written all over him!

  • Why hasn’t anyone pointed out the fact that nearly every President of the US has attended an Ivy League school, including the current one? What is wrong with the lamestream media these days? Are they regressing to their March 17, 2003 state of being?

    I’m starting to understand why Jeremiah Wright was so angry. When will America wake up? Why are we so quick to allow ourselves to be manipulated?

    When two multimillionaires who’ve known nothing but wealth, status and priviledge for the past twenty years call a former grassroots organizer “elitist,” it makes me want to bitterly cling to my faith, guns, and a bottle of Jack Daniels.

  • I’m curious about this “highly classified, national security simulation” Davis claims to have “recently” completed with Obama

    You see, CB, it involves a phone call from this safe house in Afghanistan, see…

  • Sure would be sweet if Obama would respond “this boy will gladly accept Mr. Davis’ apology once he completes 40 hours of much needed diversity training”.

  • I noticed that CB corrected his misteak and just talked about a SINGLE member of Congress

    So go ahead and start calling me names all over again.

  • For any media who wants to make a big deal out of the boy comment just remember in Obamas attempt at comedy he tried to be funny in his Annie Oakley comment
    Who does he think he is ?-Sheriff Bart from Blazing Saddles?
    He talks of a shot and a beer yet goes ahem-bowling serves burgers enters small town places where he and his wanna be queen would never step foot in their day to day life
    Obama is coming un raveled give it a little more time and his arrogance and predjudice will be full blown his wife Mo has already doomed herself simply because she doesnt know enough to shut up
    I think Hillary should come out on Colbert packing some guns too funny
    Then what is Bo to do!!!
    So Hillary prefers a shot and a beer compared to cocain and boonesfarm big deal
    By the way I see Rev Wright has chosen someones funeral to spew his venom and get attention
    Shows the class of people BO holds dear

  • Why is boy ‘offensive?’ I was a boy at one time. If someone is ten, isn’t he a boy? I guess the real question that should be asked: why is Obama using his “blackness” to run for president when he’s a 50/50? Is he ashamed of his “whiteness?” Most people realize that he is an empty suit with a smooth tongue. OH NO! I said “smooth.” Did you know that “smooth” is a term referring to black men? Probably not. Perhaps the lefties who are screaming RACIST need to get some additional diversity training.

  • Worshipers of Mr. Tall Child yell and scream at his being called “boy” while simultaneously going gaga over his youth and claiming Clinton and McCain are out of touch with younger Americans. This is your shameful ageism against the two older, wiser candidates coming back to bite you all.

  • “probably doesn’t understand normal Americans”

    Well . . . that’s a strong accusation coming from a native born Canadian (Montreal).

    How did that dirty, lazy, foreigner sneak across the border and into our congress?
    How can a Godless, commie Canadian (they’ve got public healthcare fer chrissakes) understand what we good Americans feel?
    I smell a conspiracy.

  • I noticed that CB corrected his misteak and just talked about a SINGLE member of Congress

    This remark sets the bar for self-parody, neil.

  • Note to U.S. Rep. Geoff Davis: I think Americans are ready for a president who actually thinks before he presses the red button. But feel free to vote for the “war hero” who jokes about it.

  • Why is boy ‘offensive?’

    Why is “honky” or “cracker” offensive? Oh, but then, you don’t mind that do you, Bo? Not down South. Right, honky cracker?

  • OK, does this really have to be said? “Boy” can be used to refer to a male child. But historically, it has also been used as a term of address deliberately showing a lack of respect, particularly by whites toward blacks. It has been used referring to black men of advanced age, because the important thing is that “men” are superior to “boys”, and the speaker wanted to emphasize his superiority.

    Now, maybe this congressman meant the youthful aspect, but that doesn’t hold water too well, since he is virtually the same age as Obama.

    It isn’t worth getting in a snit over, but it also isn’t nothing.

    It is funny to see those who descended on Sen. Obama with swords because of the connotations of “cling” with regard to religion or guns, now brush off the well-known connotations of “boy” being used to address a black man.

  • BS

    I was a boy at one time. If someone is ten, isn’t he a boy?

    You think Senator Barack Obama is ten years old?

    Racist.

  • I can’t believe someone who is representing people of any state would have the audacity to call Senator Obama “boy”! As a white female, I find his remark elitist! I am an Independent voter, and I’m so ashamed I have voted for Republicans in past elections! You can be assured will not make that mistake again! How can any person purport to be God loving Americans tolerate such sediments that came from the mouth of Rep. Geoff Davis? Republicans have traditional expounded their belief in honor and integrity, but his words removed that belief! I feel certain he does not have a problem with “BLACK BOYS” fighting in times of war to sustain the freedom of this country. I also find it distrubing that most people who are representing this country do not have to worry about their own children marching off to war, but it’s perfectly acceptable for young men and women of any color to fight in order to maintain white elitist lifestyles the average person will never obtain.

    Senator Obama is the first politician to approach issues most politicians run from. A vast amount of Americans are bitter and angry by lost of jobs to other countries – the war in Iraq – the high cost of living – gasoline prices and the inability to purchase homes! But, most of all, the lack of representation by those voted into office in Washington. People have a choice…continue to believe that everything will be just fine next year, or the year after, or start investing in car stickers stating:

    Yes I’m bitter – vote for change in Washington before it’s too late for all Americans!

  • Obama isn’t the first “credible” African American presidential candidate. He’s just gotten farther than the others.

  • According to news accounts, Davis’ comments were “met by laughter and applause” by his Kentucky Republican audience.

    Those in attendance understood and agreed with the connotation. No debate there about what it meant.


  • BoSouth: Perhaps the lefties who are screaming RACIST need to get some additional diversity training.

    The word ‘racist’ appears only once in this entire thread (well, twice now that I’ve quoted BoSouth).

    Personally, I don’t think Davis intended to use the word ‘boy’ in that context and I would not presume him to be a “racist” anymore than I would assume BoSouth to be. What this does show is that he doesn’t understand that there are certain words that, no matter how innocent the intent, should be avoided out of sensitivity.

    Having said that, I did grow up in the South and have learned from years of insider’s experience that most people who talk like this do tend to be racists though they would never admit it.

    These are the people who, at best, ignore social mandates that we use caution when using words like ‘boy’ in the presence of a black male and who, at worst, will go out of their way to use terms like ‘ni&&er’ and then try to justify it by pointing out that it means “an uneducated person” and therefore they are somehow just as likely to use the word in reference to a white person, as to a black person. In their minds, it is the victim’s fault that they don’t understand that.

    Who are they kidding? Only themselves.

  • JTK

    Well, I said it was racist and will say it again. I live in the South and know that no white man ever calls a black man “boy” without intending to “put him in his place” because of his race. It’s pretty overt, just as the word, “nigger”, is, flinch though most of us do when we hear it. The flinch is there for Davis’s “boy”, too.

    MissMudd is right — it was a racist remark intended for a racist audience. They got it. and applauded

  • Geoff Davis is a harmless drunk. He doesn’t even remember saying those things. When he woke up the next morning and read the quote he was mortified and ashamed cut him some slack… sheesh.

  • Does anyone find it odd the media has let the remarks made by Rep. Geoff Davis go unreported? No banners, not headlines, no big fuss….I wonder who owns the varies media networks people relie on for news???? If this doesn’t ring a alarming bell in America…nothing will! Americans better start paying attention to what is happening around them, and start thinking for themselves! Do you want more jobs to go overseas, higher gas prices, more laws banning people from getting homes, and healthcare? Wake up!


  • aristedes: Well, I said it was racist and will say it again. I live in the South and know that no white man ever calls a black man “boy” without intending to “put him in his place” because of his race. It’s pretty overt, just as the word, “nigger”, is, flinch though most of us do when we hear it. The flinch is there for Davis’s “boy”, too.

    MissMudd is right — it was a racist remark intended for a racist audience. They got it. and applauded

    Yes, you did and I actually noticed that before I hit ‘Submit’ but I didn’t want to rewrite my post (I got distracted and I just *knew* someone would would use the word ‘racist’ to put the lie to what was, at that moment, a truth).

    The point stands that, as of this moment (I’m sure that will change 2 seconds before I hit ‘Submit’), only you have called Davis a racist based solely on his use of the word ‘boy’.

    I do not doubt that he and his constituents, behind closed doors, probably are racists. But even most racists (especially politicians) know better than to cross certain lines. Calling a grown black man ‘boy’ is clearly one of those lines.

    However, using the expression ‘that boy’ in a casual sense is very common: i.e.: “That boy sure can play the fiddle!”, or “that boy just ain’t right”.

    I know better than to say that in reference to a black man because it will be misconstrued in a way that I would not intend it. In that sense, I could be accused of insensitivity or a slip of the tongue… but not racism because ‘boy’ is something I only use to refer casually to people of the male gender.

    I have little doubt that if the Congressman had the chance to proofread his statement, he would have crossed out the word ‘boy’ altogether; not because he’s a noble and tolerant saint, but because the word is loaded and will get him in trouble. Though many in his audience, no doubt, loved it. He also clearly regrets having said it as evidenced by the quick apology.

    We really have no business pouncing on this slip of the tongue as “proof” that he has a white robe and hood in his closet. Although this may well be covert racism, it is not overt and it only hurts us to try to make hay out of it.

  • He was talking to “his own,” and that’s how they talk. There’s a reason why the term Dumbass Southern Redneck White Trash exists.

    Further proof the South should have been ethnically cleansed when we had the chance.


  • JTK: can you spell “MORON”???

    I knew you could….

    Are you flaming me? Pardon me if I’m missing your point.

    Anyway, as I said earlier, I’m very aware of the dog whistles that appeal to White Trash and Rednecks.

    What I’m saying is that using the word ‘boy’ in reference to a black man is not a dog whistle but is overt and politically damaging. Therefore, I don’t think any politician in his right mind (certainly within the “post-Macaca” era) would send such an overt signal to his base no matter how much they might lap it up.

    It is probably useless for me to continue what must appear to some like I’m defending this guy. I’m sure he is as racist and as ignorant as much of his constituency.

    I have just learned from experience sociopaths who always do and say the wrong things will seize anything to prove that they’re right and everyone else is wrong.

    I simply don’t believe he meant to call Obama “boy” any more than if he’d suddenly developed a case of spontaneous Tourette’s and actually said the ‘n’ word. Yes, the white trash loved it but he is kicking himself for having said it.

    If you are right and we have truly crossed that line in modern politics, then… wow! If you are wrong, this @55hole (like the person to whom I originally responded @ #27) is just going to use it to justify his whole perverted world view.

  • JTK (Just The Kook) (I omitted Klan)

    I would hope you could understand that an ADULT BLACK MALE is not a boy in any slip of the tongue. As a large Black Man, my son is my boy. I would not call your son, my boy. My son’s sports teams are made up of boys and girls. I would never call his team a bunch of girls when there is only one girl on the team. Children have names. When will people learn about coded racist language from the past is still being used in the present. But Lordy if Barrack or Rev. Wright tell the truth, good golly miss molly it’s a major disaster. Rev Wright is not the Senator or Presidential Candidate. But The Senator has had to disavow another’s speech. And by the way I am bitter about the conditions of our country. Damm right, I have a right to be bitter about 500,000 million dollars. That’s a 1/2 trillion dollars being spent on a disaster of a war. And corporate profits are up when they ship jobs overseas. Ford, Caterpillar and Maytag are now being made overseas. Damm right I find no solace in the bible and if you do, Good for you.


  • aristedes: I live in the South and know that no white man ever calls a black man “boy” without intending to “put him in his place” because of his race.

    I’m sorry but I felt like I needed to isolate that statement for further scrutiny. I can imagine someone naive (like my Mom or my Dad) saying of Tiger Woods “that boy can really play golf” without fully gasping the implications of the word in such a context.

    Ignorant, yes. Embarrassing, very. Racist, maybe; maybe not. Again, the guy probably is a racist but this is no smoking gun. ;o)

    Besides, we’re all missing the point by dwelling on a 3-letter word. Everything else he said revealed so much more about his character and tactics than his embarrassing slip; hypocritically pointing out Obama’s having attended an Ivy League school, either making things up or disclosing classified information, and using fear and rhetoric to scare the Rednecks in his audience.

  • JTK: “Although this may well be covert racism, it is not overt and it only hurts us to try to make hay out of it.”

    So, we’re only supposed to be concerned when congressmen show up to campaign rallies with nooses and white hoods, but ignore all of the ‘covert’ stuff? Thanks for clearing that up for us; I was starting to worry that people were judging Barack simply by the color of his skin. I guess until the white-robed lynch mob shows up, we’re all just fine ‘n dandy.


  • abigbman:
    JTK (Just The Kook) (I omitted Klan)

    I would hope you could understand that an ADULT BLACK MALE is not a boy in any slip of the tongue. As a large Black Man, my son is my boy. I would not call your son, my boy.

    I don’t know if there’s any way out of this beside going back and completely reading my posts. I apologize if I’ve said anything to offend you. However, “Kook” and “Klan” are not only completely off the mark, but it actually hurts me beyond description to have anyone suggest that I’m even defending this Congressman; let alone that I’m a racist myself.

    Let’s be clear: the word ‘boy’ is only off limits when referring to a black man. Just as you can attest to that fact, I can attest as a white man that many of us do (mostly Generation X and beyond) use the word casually to refer to each other.

    But most of us have the good sense not to use it to refer to a black man as it is taken completely differently.

    I am positing that (maybe; just maybe) this guy forgot for a moment that he was referring to a black man and used the word ‘boy’ casually as I have suggested.

    Otherwise, he is committing political suicide and he should at least know better than (whether he possesses an ounce of racial sensitivity or not).

    I’m probably just pi55ing in the wind at this point as I’m sure you have read all of my comments and doubt seriously you will read this one or post again. I am a regular here and this is the first time I’ve been “attacked” in my 3 years or so.

    Granted, I’m sure that you’re reacting to words out of context and to the (mistaken) impression that I’m defending Davis.

  • In my last post (#38) I’m sure you have read all of my comments should read I’m sure you haven’t read all of my comments.

    My nerves are a little racked now at being called the last thing on earth I would ever want to be called… a racist. Yuck!

    I am a CBR regular lost in a sea of very emotional non-regulars (to whom I sympathize, BTW).

    Anyone care to help me out here or show me one post that didn’t unequivocally condemn racism and ignorance?


  • tome oftheplains: So, we’re only supposed to be concerned when congressmen show up to campaign rallies with nooses and white hoods, but ignore all of the ‘covert’ stuff? Thanks for clearing that up for us; I was starting to worry that people were judging Barack simply by the color of his skin. I guess until the white-robed lynch mob shows up, we’re all just fine ‘n dandy.

    There are many opportunities between saying ‘boy’ and showing up with nooses and white hoods to call a person on their racism.

    And, I’m not even saying that this wasn’t overt language intended to incite the racist base of the GOP. Maybe I’m wrong.

    I just think it’s stupid beyond belief for a politician to call a black man ‘boy’ in the modern era. So stupid that, I wonder it it wasn’t a slip of the tongue and that, if he had it to do all over again, he would never hang himself in such a way.

    Sure, he’s probably a racist (as I’ve said over and over and over) but is he really that stupid? Does he really hate his career that much?

    Really?!?

  • I guess after a second look at abigbman’s post (#35), it’s safe to say I’ve been taken in by a troll. No way that guy’s for real.

    Otherwise, abigbman, get ahold of your anger and don’t alienate your friends! I agree with everything you said (except the ‘Kook/KKK’ part). ;o)

  • *sniff* *sniff* Is that GOP fear that I smell? What’s the matter Repubs? Feeling threatened?

  • Make this about race and Obama loses. Make this about about national defense and he loses. Make this about real energy producing policies, and he loses. Make this about questionable friends and he loses. Make this about our number one in world health care system and he loses. The list goes on. He’s a loser.

  • I love It!!

    It’s quite good when people come out and show their true ‘colors’ (real sentiments and level of regard & respect).

    Geoff Davis is the type of white person that’s actually good for Blacks (an other non-whites) because he requires little or no mental work to figure out and thus allows his target to better protect himself and prepare an appropriate retaliation.

    In this and some other cultures, IT IS UNMISSTAKABLE WHAT “THAT BOY” MEANS, coming from a white male of similar age (or even major age difference) and directed to a black GROWN MAN.

    And just think, here’s a white Congressman feeling so SUPERIOR that he calls a non-white SENATOR “boy” – and gets widespread LAUGHTER and APPLAUSE from his southern white colleagues.

    As long as the mind-set, that produces this kind of occurance, is present in the world, you’ll always get the Rev. Wrights of the world as a result.

    At least Obama had the guts and sincerity to lay his ‘racial cards’ on the table (in his Race speech) and challenge everyone else to do the same, in an effort to reduce racial division & negative tension in the world.

    That’s much more honorable than the ‘good ol’ boys’ (and their women) style of racial politics.

    Here’s a toast to Geoff Davis (and Co.) for reminding us, all, why Rev. Wright exist.

  • Just for fun, I went over to ActBlue and looked up Geoff Davis’s Dem opponent in November, and maybe donate to the campaign.

    http://www.kelley08.com/

    Look carefully at Mr Kelley’s website. Notice anything? Like the word “Democrat” doesn’t appear anywhere on the website.

    Hell, I can deal with BlueDog Dems just fine; but this fellow won’t even admit to being a Democrat. I don’t donate to anyone who can’t claim the mantle of “Democrat”.

  • Aint you people ever heard southerners use boy as a generic term for men? Surely you’ve at least heard the saying “something is wrong with that boy” used in reference to a man of a younger age then the speaker? Hell I’ve said the same thing about people my age 🙁

    Now I’d think differently if this guy had a confederate flag and a noose in his office or a history of racist remarks…

    What strikes me as the real controversy is why is this dude talking about something that is supposed to be highly classified?


  • Matt: Aint you people ever heard southerners use boy as a generic term for men? Surely you’ve at least heard the saying “something is wrong with that boy” used in reference to a man of a younger age then the speaker?

    Foghorn Leghorn, anyone!?!

  • Matt,
    I learned as a kid never to call an African-American ‘boy’. One of my friends and I were calling each other boy and his grandmother overheard me and gave me a major tongue lashing.

  • Jedeki : I didn’t realize Afrifcan-Americans are above the rest of us and as such require special methods of addressing. I guess I just wasn’t raised right =/

  • Matt,

    Don’t know if you are totally ignorant or just playing devil’s advocate.
    You say you’re from the south but don’t understand how that is used as a racial put down when used for African-Americans?

  • Maybe… look at it this way. The use of the word ‘bitter’ is being attacked as condescending. The word ‘boy’ in this context at the very least is condescending. So. Can we call it a draw and drop both issues?

  • JTK

    I am a Black 6’5 inch 245 lb ex-football player. And I am not a troll. I find it unusual for someone to defend misogyny, even among friends. I have been addressed as a boy, after being reaching Adulthood. I do take it kinda personally the term boy. The Police officer, who called me a boy, didn’t like when I called the Internal Affairs of that Department. By the way I was a Deputy Sheriff at another agency when the incident happened. I have been in law enforcement for over 25 years and would never use a derogatory statement to label a person. By the way I mediated my anger at your defense of the Congress critter. Kook or Klan was meant as satire.

  • Oh there’s no doubt it can be construed as condescending and I will give you that. I do believe though that we should be careful about being overly active about trying to find racist subtexts in every little thing. Save the outrage for obvious things such as the macaca moment. Otherwise we risk repeating the story of the boy who cried wolf…

    I also don’t believe bitter is condescending nor do most of the folks around here. Matter fact most people say they are beyond bitter and just plain angry as all get out..

  • abigbman : You bring up a good point. It annoys me to no end when “authority figures” (officers etc) address me as boy..


  • Jedeki: I learned as a kid never to call an African-American ‘boy’. One of my friends and I were calling each other boy and his grandmother overheard me and gave me a major tongue lashing.

    … and good for her. I’m sure this lesson has served you well. Davis would have done well to simply stay away from what many Southerners really do do… refer to each other as ‘boy’.

    Perhaps the typical Southerner’s resistance to make such a modification is indicative of an underlying racial insensitivity and that might well be the case here.

    Let me tell a quick story (which might be interpreted as “hand me a shovel so I can dig myself a deeper hole):

    I have a habit of seeing familial resemblances in people. Sometimes, I see a white person who reminds me of a black person or vice versa.

    You know where this is going don’t you?

    Well, one incident made me wish that I’d learned one important lesson in black/white relations: don’t point out resemblance between 2 black people. Not being white, I cannot relate to this but I do understand the reason and am embarrassed to this day that I was so naive.

    I used to work master control at a television station. A coworker whom I’d developed a rapport with, came and stood beside me watching a news story. The news story on at the time featured a still frame of a black woman that reminded me of Oprah.

    I promptly inserted foot in mouth and was totally written off as a “typical white” guy. He was so offended, he never spoke to me again. I tried to take him aside and apologize and explain that I really *did* think she looked like Oprah and I just said it because I liked him and I was trying to strike up a conversation.

    … somebody give me a bigger shovel.

    Anyway, he was done with me. That was it. I had broken a rule that, in hindsight, I probably should have known. I was the most progressive person I knew (black, white, pink or blue) and there I was hanging my head in shame and being labeled a racist for something that really *was* innocent.

    I had flashbacks of that moment (at post #35) before I realized that ‘abigbman’ was either a troll, had not read my comments fully or is a little schizophrenic. My apologies to him if it is the latter (there was a lot of disconnected rambling going there).

    Speaking of disconnected rambling, somebody get me a backhoe…

    No wait, that’s h-o-e… I didn’t mean…

    … oh boy…

    /o;


  • Matt: Jedeki : I didn’t realize Afrifcan-Americans are above the rest of us and as such require special methods of addressing. I guess I just wasn’t raised right =/

    Well, that’s just it Matt. You sound like you weren’t raised right. It is no secret that scars exists between the races in this country; and you are showing no willingness to do your part to move us beyond it. I suspect you couldn’t give a rat’s @ss.

    It is not going to kill me to refrain from using the word ‘boy’ to refer to a black man. And, if I occasionally call white men ‘boy’ (and I occasionally do), I run the risk of accidentally using it in the wrong company.

    And if I “slip” and say about Flava Flav… “that boy’s insane”, I can only hope anyone within earshot who happens to be black will realize that I would say the exact same thing about Robin Williams. But I cannot count on that.

    I have only two choices: be sensitive to this double-standard and understand why things are the way they are, and that I cannot possibly know what it’s like to be a minority living in the wake of human slavery.

    Or, I can just be an a55hole and not care. Yeah, that’ll fix it.


  • abigbman:
    I am a Black 6′5 inch 245 lb ex-football player. And I am not a troll. I find it unusual for someone to defend misogyny, even among friends. I have been addressed as a boy, after being reaching Adulthood. I do take it kinda personally the term boy. The Police officer, who called me a boy, didn’t like when I called the Internal Affairs of that Department. By the way I was a Deputy Sheriff at another agency when the incident happened. I have been in law enforcement for over 25 years and would never use a derogatory statement to label a person. By the way I mediated my anger at your defense of the Congress critter. Kook or Klan was meant as satire.

    I’m glad you came back and I apologize if I had it wrong (that you are a troll) but let me explain.

    1. The fact that you keep describing yourself as a “big black man” just strikes me as comical. You have even incorporated your mantra into your nickname.

    2. You talk about misogyny but this thread is about racism… not misogyny (the hatred, dislike, or mistrust of women). I can forgive you for making that mistake but most people here would know better. My first instinct is to suspect trolling (which can be a very clever aren’t form, if annoying) as I wouldn’t expect someone in this forum to confuse racism with misogyny. I wouldn’t even expect someone to be able to spell misogyny who didn’t know the meaning of the word… except a troll.

    3. I’ve already told you I am “not defending” Davis. I’m not even saying he isn’t a rabid racist. I’m just saying that sometimes southerners say ‘boy’ when referring to each other. Most know better than to say it about a black man; certainly, a Congressman should know better (whether for noble reasons or just to preserve his sorry racist butt). I just don’t think he would have done that on purpose but I can see someone slipping into formal Southern lingo and saying something like “that boy”.

    But, as a black man, I wouldn’t expect you to understand that because… well, normally white people just don’t say that word around black people. It only means one thing to you but if you could be a fly on the wall in a trailer or at a Redneck bar in the South, in addition to hearing lots of rank racial slurs that are deserving of contempt, you would also hear white guys calling other white guys ‘boy’.

    And, one day, as “sure as shootin'” (to use another Southernism), one of these yokels is going to say it in the wrong company. When he does, he will insist that he didn’t mean it the way it was taken… and he will be telling the truth. However, the irony will be that he probably deserves whatever scorn gets heaped on him. But you know what he’s going to do? He’s going to blame the person who “falsely” accused him of being a racist (whether he really is one or not)… and on and on it goes.

  • Alice–

    You mean you actually think Obama was being racist when he referred to his grandmother as a “typical white person”? Do you really believe that he was insulting his grandmother who helped raise him??? I still don’t get how that’s supposed to be construed as offensive since it was pretty clear he was saying that her views were typical of a white person at that time– um, which they were. I know it’s uncomfortable to address such things sometimes but it doesn’t make them any less true.

    Also, so Obama criticized Imus’ “nappy headed hoes” comment– which is blantantly offensive to refer to a woman’s college basketball team– and then met with Ludacris? I don’t get the comparison. What do you have against Ludacris?

    Feel free to explain instead of just making vague references.

  • I guess I have to watch my vocabulary. It is strange the words I can’t use anymore. I grew up near Cajun Country yet I can’t call anyone a “Coonass” That is what Cajuns affectionately call each other. I can’t use the word boy. It is derogratory….I can’t use the word watermelon…That is racist….This goes on and on. Where does this stop? This is becoming a “control” issue with blacks. So, next summer I am going to get my boy and meet some of my coonass friends for watermelon in Breaux Bridge for the crawfish festival. I guess nowadays I could be lynched for those words. Oops! Can’t use that word again. I heard that word a lot in cowboy movies. Now it is racist. Does anyone have any ideas!

  • For all of you who, like Joanie @65, worry about their narrowing vocabulary… It’s really very simple:

    I can use words like “kike” and “Polack”, tell nasty jokes about them and get away with it, because I’m both these things; I cannot call a black man “nigger”, because I’m cracker-white. I can call some of my best friends “girls” even though we’re all fast approaching 60, but it would never occur to me to call a grown up man — especially one who’s not at least 25-30yrs younger than I am (ie my son’s age) and a good friend — a “boy”. And *particularly not* an adult male acquaintance who is also black, since the *history* of that word — as applied to adult black males — was one of the very first things my husband explained to me, when I landed in VA.

    And Joanie… If you really think you could be lynched for those words… I think you need to go back to primary school (or wherever it is that Americans learn their ABCs of history) and read on who did the lynching and for what offenses. Hint: it wasn’t blacks lynching white dumb cows for mis-speaking…


  • jonie: I grew up near Cajun Country yet I can’t call anyone a “Coonass” That is what Cajuns affectionately call each other. I can’t use the word boy. It is derogratory….I can’t use the word watermelon…That is racist….This goes on and on. Where does this stop? This is becoming a “control” issue with blacks. So, next summer I am going to get my boy and meet some of my coonass friends for watermelon in Breaux Bridge for the crawfish festival. I guess nowadays I could be lynched for those words.

    Before you totally lost me with that last line, I just wanted to touch on your assertion that this is a “control issue with blacks”. Only to the extent that control had been wrested away from them for 400 years and although they are now “free” to control their own lives and make their own choices, there is still what I have always called a “collective inferiority complex”. My choice of words might be my ‘bitter’ and I might upset someone with them, but I strongly believe that what happens to an abused child can happen collectively to an abused ethnic group.

    In an ideal world, the abused child grows up and becomes successful, strong and never treats others the way he/she was treated. After all, it is contrary to our sense of justice when the abused grow up insecure, resentful, dysfunctional and winds up in jail instead of simply throwing off the shackles of their oppressors and finding reparation for their hardships.

    But, in the real world, this is often what happens. We are seeing an entire population of people who have been damaged by the legacy of slavery. Certainly not all are dysfunctional or insecure but one look at the posturing of “gangsta rappers” should make it obvious that many blacks (especially the men) are just insecure and are terrified of looking vulnerable. So the reaction is a “hyper macho” culture, where men avoid smiling, walk in a very controlled manner, homosexuals becomes pariahs, ‘ask’ becomes ‘aks’, etc. (because knowledge makes you look “weak”).

    It is a vicious cycle and those of us who are fortunate enough to not have this kind of baggage to carry around every day of our lives, need to do what we can to help the African American community pull through it. The consequences of our complacency could cause our whole society to come unglued (but perhaps this is the penance that must be paid for slavery).

    And this brings me to the crux of this discussion, which is (one of the reasons) why I believe it’s so important that Barrack Obama becomes the next president of the United States. Men and women have to live together (whether we see eye-to-eye or not) so we can elect a woman another time.

    But I see a level of pride (real pride; not the put-on kind) in the eyes of many black people when Obama speaks. I feel that pride for them and want this for them even more than I want it for myself.

    And I do want it for myself and people of my own race too. This is the most intelligent, eloquent and exciting presidential candidate I have seen in my lifetime and that’s got nothing to do with the color of his skin. He is both uniquely qualified to lead us out of the dangerous place we are in, and he happens to be black.

    So, be patient. Watch your words. Yes, there’s a double-standard and, yes, there is hypersensitivity. But you and I are not going to fix the problem by just yelling “get over it”. Wounds take time to heal and these wounds are deep.

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