About that flag-pin question…

OK, one more thing about Wednesday night’s Democratic debate and then I’ll let it go. Determining which of the discussion topics was the most inane is tricky, but I’d have to go with the flag lapel-pin question.

Early on in the debate, Charlie Gibson said he wanted to offer a question that “goes to the basic issue of electability.” Gibson said, “[I]t is a question raised by a voter in Latrobe, Pennsylvania, a woman by the name of Nash McCabe.” From videotape, McCabe then asked Obama if he “believe[s] in” the American flag, and why he doesn’t “wear the flag.”

For ABC, this offers a little distance from the trivia — the moderators didn’t ask about lapel pins, some regular ol’ person did. I had assumed that ABC went around western Pennsylvania, looking for voters with good questions, and thought McCabe’s was provocative. But that’s not quite what happened.

A couple of weeks ago, McCabe told the New York Times that she can’t back Obama. “How can I vote for a president who won’t wear a flag pin?” the recently unemployed clerk typist said. (Josh Marshall explained, “Presumably, a researcher for ABC or Gibson saw the piece in the Times, figured, hey, this lady hates Obama and is seriously ginned up about the lapel issue. Let’s send a camera crew and film her slamming Obama to his face. It’ll be great in the debate.”)

Or as Will Bunch put it:

So Nash McCabe wasn’t located at random at all. Instead, someone at ABC News decided that they wanted to go after Obama on the patriotism issue, and they actively sought a Pennsylvanian who they knew wanted to bring it up. I assume they thought it would sound better if “a typical voter” asked the question instead of Charlie Gibson. “You see, we’re only raising the issue the voters really care about,” they can claim.

Yes, but the claim isn’t true.

McClatchy also took a closer look at McCabe’s circumstances and found a very sad story.

But to understand why Obama rubs McCabe wrong is to go beyond the question of what a flag pin has to do with patriotism — it’s not really about the flag pin, she said in a telephone interview Thursday — and consider McCabe’s life. It’s no Hawaiian prep school and Ivy League story, unlike Obama’s. It’s a slice of working-class Pennsylvania, the core of Hillary Clinton’s support there.

McCabe met her husband, Lloyd, in April 1983 at a dance. They married two months later. Six months after that, she says, he was injured in a coal mine accident. He hasn’t worked since.

They never had children. He had back surgery. The muscle relaxers he took damaged his heart. He’s had three bypasses, nine angioplasties, seven stents and a pacemaker. Three months ago doctors found a brain tumor. His choice: surgery that he may or may not survive, or life in a wheelchair.

Over 25 years of marriage, McCabe was the breadwinner. She said it took eight years to get her husband disability payments, during which time they racked up huge bills.

“I was a nurse’s aide, a cashier,” McCabe said. “From 1996 to 2000, I was a manager of a cleaning company. I started out as secretary and worked my way up to manager, and then the company decided to close. It took me almost two-and-a-half years to find a job that I got laid off from recently” as a clerk-typist. She has a high school diploma.

Ironically, she sounds like one of the frustrated small-town voters Obama has been reaching out to for quite a while.

Perhaps if ABC News had focused a little more on McCabe’s economic circumstances, and a little less on her flag-pin interest, we may have been able to learn something useful in the debate.

It’s worth noting that the original NYT article that quoted McCabe and made her interesting to reporters wasn’t about questioned patriotism; it was about racial attitudes in western Pennsylvania. It led Bunch to conclude:

So, the New York Times is basically stating that many voters are finding odd or vague reasons not to support a candidate who president who happens to be black. And without any thought to the subtext, ABC News plucked one of those reasons and brought it to the center stage of democracy.

To be extra clear, none of this is a criticism of Nash McCabe — my heart goes out to her and her husband, and there is no evidence here that her views on Obama and the flag, which I personally think are misguided, are racially motivated.

Instead, it is yet another indictment of ABC News, which was eager to act is if there’s no racial subtext to this election, other than its question about affirmative action for Obama’s “affluent African-American daughters.” Obama’s been under fire for the last week for suggesting that Rust Belt voters — facing a swirl of feelings about the economy and “people who don’t look like them” — are wooed by wedge issues.

ABC’s contribution to that discussion: Wooing voters with wedge issues.

Nash McCabe has had a diffcult life, but she is a prime example of the effect of inadequate disability and health care for a great number of Americans. Imagine her life, as difficult as it has been, with children. ABC’s handling of the situation is unsconscionable, as well. Obama and Clinton may have gotten a better shake on Fox. At least Fox is known for biases and may have attempted to be a bit more even-handed. Let’s be clear..ABC conducted the debate from the perspective of ratings and entertainment. Policy issues bore people. But I am a bit surprised they did not ask Obama about Brittney Spears or polygamy in Texas.

  • The lying liars will do whatever then can to promote mclame or shillary – either one represents a continutation of the bush-clinton-bush-clinton cartel.

    Just look at the thread “downstairs” – trolls try to misrepresent electoral votes as somehow being more important than the will of the people (and even the “superdelegates) in democratic primaries.

    They lying liars (which includes the shillary campaign) misrepresent the fact that ALL polls show Obama trouncing mclame in a general election – yes with those same electoral votes that provide the last dishonest case for clinton (and polls show that shillary could even lose general election).

    The bigger problem, however, is that just like in 2000 and 2004 – the media does not care who actually wins. They merely need to create the memes and distractions so that if the election can be stolen, they have talking points to justify the theft and prevent a dialog about the election fraud.

  • Fantastic story and a further slam of ABC. They’re exploiting the woman’s emotional response for TeeVee “face time” rather than reporting anything about social-economic the forces which put her (and millions of other people) in her situation. We really do need another FDR who could address national problems rationally rather than simply giving us TeeVee shots of the “I met a woman” variety.

    Once again, I’ll remind everyone of something apparently even Obama doesn’t realize. The U.S. Flag Code (4 US Code 1) prohibits wearing flag pins:

    (Sec 8-j): No part of the flag should ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. However, a flag patch may be affixed to the uniform of military personnel, firemen, policemen, and members of patriotic organizations. The flag represents a living country and is itself considered a living thing. Therefore, the lapel flag pin being a replica, should be worn on the left lapel near the heart.

    I’ve been fighting this losing battle ever since the Vietnam era, when kooks began wearing flag clothing and wealthier people turned to these flag pins for the lapels of their suits (all from China, btw), Sometimes I feel I should change my name to Sisyphos.

  • Perhaps OT, but perhaps NOT

    The April 9th Gallup poll, Bush equals the highest disapproval rating of any President in history: 67%. As measured by Gallup, the only polling organization with data going back to the 1980’s, much less the 1930’s, 67% disapproval was only reached one time before, by Harry Truman in January of 1952. Even Richard Nixon never reached 67% disapproval.

    Click for more.

    Remember – EITHER mclame or shillary represents an extention of the bush-clinton-bush-clinton criminal cabal.

  • I should have mentioned that “members of patriotic organizations” doesn’t refer to political aprties promoting themselves but rather to those organizations devoted to promoting patriotism as such.

  • Does she know that Hon. Sen. Obama does not “refuse” to wear a flag pin? Do Hon. Sens. McCain and Clinton wear these?

  • I’m with you, Ed, if you need any help rolling that rock uphill for all eternity. It digs into the difference between patriotism and nationalism…a distinction that the majority of Americans (and, in particular, the rather un-patriotic groups that we call political parties) refuse to acknowledge.

    But i’ve certainly grown deeply weary of people without lapel pins decrying the lack of lapel pins on others. Perhaps we should amend the Constitution to require that those who run for office tattoo the flag onto their foreheads so that only the delusionally (i might have just made the word up) “patriotic” will even think of running for office.

  • I have always wondered how many draft dodgers go around wearing the flags and patriotic license plates now that they do no have to pay for that patriotism with a stint in the military.

  • so how exactly is somebody — obama, you, me — wearing a flag pin going to make her life any better?the bozos in the current administration seem to compete with each other on the size of their flag pins, and it hasn’t seemed to help her.

    i remember ’88 when lee atwater made big deals over the pledge of alliegiane and the dukakis being “a card-carrying member of the aclu.”

    bullshit remains bullshit.

  • I can’t believe that ABC went searching for this woman in order to inject this question into the debate. ABC didn’t have the guts to ask this themselves because they knew they would be ridiculed for such an inane “When did you stop beating your wife?” type question so they went out and got a ringer to ask it for them. Where I come from, that’s called a setup. What sleazeballs.

  • So what if this woman originally asked that question in another context? It’s still her question, which Senator Sidestep doesn’t seem to want to answer with his insufficient “this is a manufactured distraction” answer that fools no one. Hillary has been asked 100 times worse questions. None of you were defending her when she was being attacked for misremembering one small incident and other total non-stories like that.

    There are probably hundreds of thousands of people in Pennsylvania wondering whether Mr. Dubious Patriotism cares about our nation’s flag, but ABC couldn’t get them to go on camera. No doubt they’re too frightened of the vicious attacks they would receive from Obama and his mean-spirited campaign.

  • Sorry IFP, but Hillary Gollum Clinton has never been asked why she doesn’t wear a flag pin or whether she loves America more than her pastor.

  • It is an absurd idea to think that pre-screened questions from regular people don’t reflect the bias of the people running the debate.

    If I ask for questions from regular people and I get 5,000 people sending in questions then I (or the network) will have to decide which 10 or 20 questions to ask in the debate.

    It would be very easy for me to pick out 20 questions that are unfair to Clinton or pick out 20 questions that are unfair to Obama. The questions I pick will reflect my view of the world.

    Please understand that EVERY SINGLE question on EVERY SINGLE debate reflected the views of the people who choose to air the question. The source of the question is completely irrelevant.

  • Maybe that’s because Hillary’s patriotism has never been in question. Of course the followers of Mr. Loving My Country is Uncool haven’t figured that out yet, but women have. Women have.

  • Ed,

    Your statutory citation is interesting, but while there doesn’t appear to be any case law on the point, I cannot imagine that a legal prohibition against wearing a flag pin could possibly be constitutional. If the First Amendment protects burning the flag as a political statement, it clearly must protect wearing the flag as a political statement.

  • Admit it, Insane Fake Professor, you work for the Obama campaign, don’t you. A deft, pitch perfect satire of a Clinton Troll. You should start a blog.

  • Amazing.

    McCabe is Exhibit A for the truth of Obama’s “bitter” remarks (sorry Krugman). She has been screwed by the health care system, and yet her priority (apparently) is the “flag” issue. What better evidence for the whole bitter/cling “controversy.”

  • Regarding this flag pin issue, Obama needs to tread this issue very carefully. The Republicans will try to paint him as a snob or elitist. I think the best way to deal with this “issue” is to point out that Rove, McCain do not wear a flag pin.

  • Admit it, Insane Fake Professor, you work for the Obama campaign, don’t you. A deft, pitch perfect satire of a Clinton Troll. You should start a blog.

    You guys keep generously complimenting IFP, but Mary says she’s not funny, and Mary’s judgment is usually dead on.

  • Insane Fake Professor said:
    Maybe that’s because Hillary’s patriotism has never been in question. Of course the followers of Mr. Loving My Country is Uncool haven’t figured that out yet, but women have. Women have.

    Women want the big O.

  • Ed Stephan said: Sometimes I feel I should change my name to Sisyphos.

    I hear you, Ed. On my blog I have an animation of an executive pushing a giant golf ball up a hill over and over. Does that count? Or as the Caucasian Eaglets used to complain: Liver again tonight?

    I have to admit that during one angry time in my life I had a flag patch sewn on the butt of my jeans.

    I didn’t know the flag was considered a living thing (because it flaps?). That’s sort of like he body of Christ.

  • The below quote comes off a Huffington Post article today … the whole article is so right the fuck on .. this opening paragraph however sums it all up …………

    Read more reactions from Huffington Post bloggers to ABC’s Pennsylvania Democratic debate

    We like to joke about the “very serious” traditional media. The truth is that while they claim exclusive lordship over integrity and professionalism — not to mention a corner on the world’s supply of pants made of smarty — they’re really a freak show with serious haircuts and suits. They’re a wing of the Republican corporatist conspiracy against America. And the very serious moderators of last night’s Democratic debate couldn’t have been less serious if they had been wearing clown suits made of dildos while simultaneously tickling each other with monkeys.

    I don’t really even need to write this. The nation has witnessed, firsthand, George Stephanopoulos and Charlie Gibson for who they really are: pandering yellow journalists. Carnival barkers. They’re Penn & Teller without the talent or insight

  • Why doesn’t Obama just point out that Lincoln, FDR, Ike–you name ’em, didn’t wear lapel pins, say something about wearing your heart on your sleeve. In my mind’s eye I see Washington wearing a bit of tri-color bunting, so I guess I wouldn’t mention Washington. Probably just got that image from some President’s Day advertisement.

  • The flag regulations cited above have no sanctions attached to them (“that is left to the States”) and are, for all practical purposes, guidelines. Besides, I don’t see how wearing a flag pin is in violation since it mentions where a flag pin should be placed. It seems that it encourages the wearing of a flag pin.

    And Senator Obama has worn a flag pin recently when a disabled vet gave him one.

    The twin evils of hard times and war may make symbolic issues like the flag pin a little harder to pass on as debate these days. I doubt very many people will be swayed by the argument but I know a lot of people will use it as a bludgeon to reinforce their own ideas.

    Ironically, it was hard times for ABC that brought us that debate. It was the highest rated show in its time slot and therefore the goal of ABC was accomplished.

  • Honestly, can we using ‘random’ average joe questions. It’s stupid and the only people that benefit is the god damn networks who make sure they are never random.

    You would think someone at ABC would have like, “Wait, here is a women in need and instead exploiting her frustration/desperation for ratings, maybe we can formulate a question she needs answered.” Fuck, fuck, fuck.

    The last thing this lady needs is getting dragged into campaign bullshit. For what, for what, so cowardly Gibbs doesn’t have to ask about a god damn pin ??

  • For the sake of Steve’s wonderful blog… let’s ignore “Insane Fake Professor” We do not need to go as far as the Right Wing blogs by blocking them altogether.

    Just deny them the pleasure of a response and they’ll go away all on their own. We all know that their blather is just that: blather.

  • Bruno (#32): you are hereby sentenced to a 40 hour class in recognizing and appreciating irony and satire. Perhaps you should read the threads yesterday where your fellow humor-impaired visitor SmilingDixie was educated about Insane Fake Professor and where he/she/it comes from.

  • Considering the debate and all the b.s. like what is being discussed here, I am reminded of how far-sighted and prescient Paddy Chayevsky was when he wrote a certain movie 33 years ago (Network).

  • It took EIGHT YEARS for this woman’s husband to get disability. That ought to be criminal.

    We have a woman in our church who had stomach and intestinal cancer. They cured it, but said she would never eat again. She overcame that and does now eat. However, the chemo destroyed her kidneys. She was on dialysis for years and once she was cancer free for more than 5 years, managed to get a transplant eventually. She is now on anti-rejection drugs that sap her strength. It took her years to get disability too. Recently, she got kicked off of disability for a year while they were “reviewing” her eligibility. The church has been supporting her for all that time.

    This stuff happens every day. People die waiting and kill themselves over a feeling of uncaring hopelessness. What is wrong with this country?

  • I know this is preaching to the choir, but I am really really sick of rediculous, pointless topics like flag pins and bittergate. Can’t we move on to really important questions like boxers or briefs 😉

  • The paint finish on those Chinese-made flag lapel pins have excessively high levels of lead. I do not want to wear something that is poisonous. Why does the media want someone to wear poison on their lapel?

  • This all reminds me of that nutty shit going down in 2000 when each time Gore or Bush would say something “official” they kept loading the background with more and more flags, as if the number of flags would surely make one or the other more presidential. Never did get the final count but I assume Bush won by a stripe or two.

    Just curious: If you go through a metal detector with a lapel pin do they give you a pass if it’s a flag?

    😛

  • Seems to me that while some may object to not wearing a flag pin, not doing your “womanly duty” to your husband, POTUS, would be even more disrepectul. Bill should never have had to turn to that hippo monica lewisnksi if shillary had paid honor to his flagpole.

  • This lady seems a little bitter.

    Rightfully so perhaps, but a little misguided. She can relate to Hillary who made only $109 million over the last few years, though.

  • I’m sure the Nazis who didn’t wear their swastika armbands caught plenty of grief from the likes of McGabe… Grrrrrrrr!

  • IS Insane Fake Professor a satire writer or not? Some people take her seriously and others claim she’s writing satire.

    Does anyone know?

    TIA

  • IS Insane Fake Professor a satire writer or not? -phoebes

    Yes, IFP is satire; a spoof of Mary. It is a testament to IFP’s skill and to just how far off the deep end most of the vocal Clintonistas are that IFP is so mistaken as serious.

  • Barack Obama had the timerity to state that he did not believe the wearing of a flag lapel pin to be symbolic of his patriotism:

    “My attitude is that I’m less concerned about what you’re wearing on your lapel than what’s in your heart,” he told the campaign crowd Thursday. “You show your patriotism by how you treat your fellow Americans, especially those who serve. You show your patriotism by being true to our values and ideals. That’s what we have to lead with is our values and our ideals.”

    “The truth is that right after 9/11 I had a pin,” Obama said. “Shortly after 9/11, particularly because as we’re talking about the Iraq war, that became a substitute for I think true patriotism, which is speaking out on issues that are of importance to our national security.”

    These are sentiments with which I concur. But, I imagine that my mother – whose sentiments in wearing / displaying a flag are deep and sincere – would likely feel afronted by the Senator’s comment that wearing a lapel pin is a “substitute” for patriotism. While I suspect his assessment is true for a number people inside the Beltway (and the sycophants who cover them for the establishment media), IMO, Obama’s comments could be framed as tarring a number of citizens (my mother among them) with a broad brush. Like it or not, Obama’s decision not to wear the de rigeur lapel pin – or rather his public explanation of it – was an act of speaking a truth to power that also spoke truth to many who are NOT in power. The result is that those in power will continue to use this potential implication** to exploit the offense that those NOT in power might take at the idea that their wearing a flag pin is a substitute for patriotism. I can believe (some here will disagree) that for many people, the act of wearing the lapel is a sincere manifestation of patriotism. I do not like having my patriotism questioned for not wearing one; I don’t expect anyone to like being question for wearing one. I do not believe Senator Obama intended to cast the “substitute for patriotism” net as widely as the media has projected it. But, alas, this is where we are.

    Senator Obama is proceding in his campaign by showing faith in judgement of his fellow citizens. He plows ahead with conviction that they will see past the smoke of what he regards as silly distractions. I hope he is right, and I admit his faith is greater than mine. I expect a not-insignificant number of my fellow citizens to be drawn to the shiny-object issues of flag pins and bitterness. Senator Clinton is correct when she says that the Republicans and the establishment media will not let go of this crap. But she is wrong when she says that the fact that her “baggage” has been rifled before somehow immunizes her. I have no doubt that were she the Democratic nominee, the Republicans and their media enablers would rip the scab off the sour memories of the Clinton years and bash away, bash away, bash away all.

    ** I understand that a number of people who are responding to the rumors that Obama is a Muslim who will not put his hand over his heart while saluting the flag, or stand during “The Star Spangled Banner.” They know nothing of Obama’s original comments about his reasoning for not following the lapel pin fad. I just think that his honest response provides the Republicans and the media with the “hand hold” necessary to keep trying to find a means to throw him off balance and otherwise distract from his message. It is not right but it is.

  • I have to admit, when IFP first started to post she (he?) had me going too sometimes. It was so close to what Mary and Greg post here that I thought it was just another one. Once I became convinced that it was a put-on it finally started to look pretty witty, and sometimes downright hilarious, in a black humor kind of way. But there’s always this nagging little question in my mind, wondering if IFP is really satire at all…

  • Re. MissMudd….Just curious: If you go through a metal detector with a lapel pin do they give you a pass if it’s a flag?

    Do you think you could get through a TSA screening with Flag nipple rings???

  • I have said it before, but men rarely listen, except to other men, so I will say it again.

    A man who is assertive, persistent and not afraid to tell the truth is called brave and brilliant. A woman who does the same is denounced as a “satire.”

    Hypocrisy stinks.

  • Obama needs to track down McCabe and talk to her personally about her very real problems and how his presidency will help her personally.

    Win her to his cause.

  • I’m with Obama. I have never worn a lapel flag pin and I never will. But I wore something during the Korean that a lot of the patriotic lapel flag pin wearer never wore, THE UNIFORM OF THE UNITED STATES ARMY and the patch I wore on my sleeve was that of the 24th Division. So if you never served keep your mouth shut about the phoney patriotism of wearing a lapel flag pin.

  • I’m not at all surprised. When that question came up I thought how it is impossible to put this kind of thing to bed. Months ago when the question was raised, Obama addressed it. I thought he addressed it well, others no doubt thought it was done poorly, but either way that should be the end of a pretty insignificant story. And yet it just keeps coming back over and over again. You would think it would just be too insipid a question for a presidential debate, and you would be right. Even ABC knew that there was no reason to be raising this question in the debate, which is why of all the questions asked, they got a ‘member of the public’ to ask this one. So they could claim it was a relevant question, because the public won’t let the issue drop.

  • i think ifp is correct “hypocrisy stinks”– i don’t recall hillary clinton wearing a flag pin on her lapel at all

  • ps. It seemed especially retarded considering Hillary was standing there beside him unencumbered by flag pins of any nation.

  • I get the drift of your post, but this is a very badly written post. I understand that the woman’s whole story wasn’t told, but, beyond that, I don’t know what your point is.

    It’s not “ironic” that she is the kind of voter Obama is trying to reach. She is obviously, considering her husband’s health problems, the kind that would be sympathetic to Hillary.

    And then there’s the business of bringing up race….and then disowning it as the woman’s motive.

    Ugh.

  • Sorry, I’m sure the woman’s had a rough life, but I can’t help thinking that anybody will all those problems who focuses on a flag pin is probably partly in her position because of serious prioritization problems.

  • flag pin = divisive patriotism

    I can’t help but speak out on this over played issue. It would be refreshing for the media or even a blog to call it exactly what it is at last, divisive patriotism . It seems to me there are two kinds of patriotism one which unites a nation in a common purpose humbly and yet proudly representing who we are as a people in that effort. The other divides and separates us from the world falsely inflating our stature denying our interdependency with the rest of the planet. Considering all Bush, Cheney, and the neo-con pundit hacks have done to this nation over the last eight years divisive patriotism best encompasses their platform.

    All of their “with us or against us” tripe such as using a flag lapel pin as a symbolic sword to separate those who are patriotic or not, who is for the war or not, who is for the troops or not. This absurdity has been so overplayed now it comes across as a strange cultish gesture you would expect to see used in a B horror flick where the leading role character must put on the lapel pin in order to live. To me the greatest risk to America isn’t terrorism, its divisive patriotism. And the rights greatest weapon has been to reduce complex topics to narrow talking points and dichotomous questions others can only agree with or risk being branded a traitor or leftist nut. Knowing good and well the flag pin is being used by the right to further polarize this nation I wouldn’t wear one either.

  • The best debate so far has been the radio debate broadcast by NPR…which only proves the point that the TV journalists are too full of themselves to let other people, people who are trying to become the leaders of this nation…talk in a civil, informative conversation on the issues…of today.

    Personally, I didn’t watch the debate–there comes a time when you have to say “how many more debates?” and “ABC ‘debate’ or Cardinals baseball”….I chose the latter, man am I glad!

    A wish of mine is to see a debate held with Amy Goodman, David Corn as moderators…though, the candidates might be a little afraid of tough questions coming from their own side of the isle…as Hillary we now know doesn’t like MoveOn…Amy’s bite might cause the self rightious twit to cry…

  • Spotsylvania asked whether or not a flag tattoo is more patriotic than a flag pin?

    I’d like to think it is, especially since I just spent the wages of two weeks worth of hard labor, not to mention putting up with pain so bad that I bit clean through a Tom Clacey novel* in order to get my whole head tattoed with Old Glory. Even my face. My wife’s mad as hell, but she’ll come around. Kids crying. Not tears of joy, neither. If a tattoo isn’t more patriotic than a pin, I’ve just screwed up big time. I mean, I would have thought that the answer would be obvious, but then again, this country has more than its fair share of dim bulbs.

    * À la Recherche Du Temps Perdu (pocket books edition….. THICK)

  • I find it extremely hard to get excited about a flag that has been fashioned from fibers grown or synthesized and then spun in China, woven into clothe in China, dyed with dyes made in China, assembled and sewn together in China, packaged in China using materials produced in China, shipped to the US in Chinese merchant marine vessels, while every step of the process was executed by Chinese labor that is underpaid, under-represented and – in some cases – may be performed by Chinese prison labor…all these flags to be sold in Wal-Mart. They are made on contract by American corporations that think so little of America that they could give a happy damn if they ship the entire manufacturing base over seas. And as far as they are concerned, the only value of the flag derives from whatever use can be had from it as a tool of manipulation, an icon that they can use to push emotional buttons and thereby manipulate people into favorably thinking about, supporting agendas and doing things that ill-serve the people’s own best interests and well-being. A bunch of arch-cynics, protesting too loudly about patriotism. Yeah, the flag gives me a real lump in my throat, I tell ya.

    Same goes for these idiotic flag lapel pins. I guess that when the CEO’s and their lackey GOPers wear those silly lapel pins, it evens up the the score for their laying waste the American workers and the middle class, for evading taxes and, of course, sporting a lapel pin excuses their parasitization of American society…makes everything OK. And, best of all, we can all take comfort in knowing that we’ll always have those GOPer propaganda organs that we all otherwise know as the MSM to tell us what to think, what to feel and how to vote. What’s not to like?

    The next time somebody, and I hope it’s that neocon Hillary, asks him where his lapel pin is, I wish he would answer” If it was up your ass you’d know where it was.

  • I was already aggravated that I wasted my time watching a debate in which flag pins and whether a reverend (not running for any office) loved his Country were raised as relevant questions. Now, I am closer to furious. They used this woman and with no intent to assist her longterm. Wouldn’t it have been better to have her tell her story and ask what would be different for a person like me under your administration — or something similar?

    No, we needed to hear about flag pins, when last time I checked neither Senator Clinton, nor Senator McCain wear one either. The moderators lapels were also conspicuously devoid of flag apparell.

  • “A couple of weeks ago, McCabe told the New York Times that she can’t back Obama. “How can I vote for a president who won’t wear a flag pin?” the recently unemployed clerk typist” because She thinks like this she keeps voting for people that screw her and her family. I don’t see mccain or clinton wearing a flag lapel but wait their white so its ok, screw her

  • I’ll meet your flag pin and DD214, raise you a stupid chinese-made magnet yellow ribbon and call.

  • This is what I sent to every single email address I could find at ABCNews.com the day after the debate:

    ================================
    Dear Sirs and Madams,

    I’m writing to express my absolute disgust with last night’s debate, hosted by ABC. The entire first half of that debate showed that George S. and Charlie G. had no idea whatsoever what a debate is actually about. I was ready to hear the candidates tell me where they stand on the ISSUES. Instead, what did millions of Americans and viewers abroad hear?

    Accusations of association with the WeatherUnderground from the SIXTIES!
    Personal views on manufactured issues generated by right wing talk show hosts.
    Attempts to conflate a pastor with a Presidential candidate’s personal views.
    Flagpins! Flagpins? What does this have to do with the housing crisis or how we’re going to get out of Iraq?

    How dare George and Charlie line up question after question about tabloid news. PA voters are going to the polls in a few days and they heard pablum questions tossed about as if they were terribly important. They were NOT. They were inane questions about nonsense.

    Do not ever let George and Charlie facilitate another debate. They have no viable credentials for doing so. They are a disgrace to journalism and provided me with nothing but shame for a solid hour and a half.

    Please, do NOT foist something like this on the public ever again.
    ===============================================

    I wrote the above because a new low has been reached in American politics. When a person like Nash can be sought out, interviewed, filmed, then deemed worthy of airing her inane view on TV, for millions of viewers to see, you know that main stream media is part of the problem. Who vetted that interview? Who decided that it was far more important to discuss flagpins than it was to discuss issues? The President of ABC News. That’s who. The PRESIDENT of a MAJOR news corporation.

    No wonder the American Century has come to a screeching halt. It’s over folks. Get used to the decline because it’s here. All empires decline. You and I are watching ours decline in front of our very eyes.

  • To hell with what Obama says if he doesn’t wear a flag pin he’s not worthy of being the leader of this great country. There are some people who believe they have a lock on patriotism, that if you don’t show your patriotism my way then you are not a true american.
    Obama is stuck if he starts wearing a flag pin now he will look like Dukakis did when he rode around in that tank. He will then be then be called a hypocrite. And he would be.
    When Samuel Johnson wrote “Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel” I’m sure he meant to criticise those who would use patriotism to bash anyone who disagreed with them. Patriotism is a personal matter best left up to the individual, action speaks louder than words or symbols, it’s what he does that matters. George Bush plays the patriot card often but his actions are not patriotic yet no one calls him unpatriotic.
    This woman could have asked so many good questions, like what are you going to do about mine safety, drug safety, health care reform, disability reform and last but not least, what has happened to good jobs in this country? These are all issues that directly effect her and her husbands well being, but she can’t vote for him because he doesn’t wear a flag pin. Sadly there are to many voters out there of the same mindset.

  • Some patriots are flag “wavers”. Some flag “wavers” are patriots. For those that fit neither of those descriptions, I’ll take the patriots who aren’t flag “wavers” over the flag “wavers” who aren’t patriots, any day.

  • To Ed Stephan at #3. The Flag Code does not prohibit wearing a flag lapel pin. The code simply says that it should be worn on the left lapel over the heart. How did you read that to mean that it prohibits the wearing of flag lapel pins?

  • to xvet:

    well said, dude. yours is one of the most worthwhile postings here–and there are a lot of ’em. thx for bringing up Dr Johnson and the worthlessness of the “patriotism” of the ilk of Bush & Co. And best of all, highlighting the “good questions” that poor woman from PA could have asked about issues that her kicked her ass. The republicans cynically capitalize on people like her who just don’t connect the dots when it comes to our political life, thereby letting herself in for getting kicked in the ass again and again. The networks could render such people a real service. The fact that they don’t is yet another proof that their real agenda is the servicing of the interests of their corporate masters. It’s so sad. That gal’s life will never get better because nobody will ever tell her that she’s entitled to a different expectation of her political leadership. They’ll just keep refocusing her on flag pins or their useless equivalent.

    I didn’t watch the debate. I haven’t owned a television since the late 70s and never will again…useless, noisy shit. that’s all it is.

  • equally sad is the spectacle of McCain the POW embracing Bush&Co–who obviously, to a man, have nothing but contempt for him. And how could do otherwise, considering how he crawled to them even after they smeared him in the 2000 primary in South Carolina? McCain actually put his face against Bush’s chest and EMBRACED HIM–after the way Bush & Co used McCain’s adopted daughter they way they did. Sick, sick, SICK. Bush’s boys have it right about McCain: He IS contemptible. And McCain knows it too. Think about all that poorly controlled anger that comes spilling out at times. A pathetic individual who may or may not once have been a man; but he ain’t no more.

  • My first memory of someone wearing a flag pin was Richard M Nixon. Such a patriot he was ! !

  • I have just read 75 comments on this trivial issue and almost can’t stop laughing to type.

    To me, ( I once took a mail order course in psychology) the lady who asked the question of Obama has an identity crisis. She has had many losses in her life and identifies with how much Hlllary stands to lose. I wonder if Hillary’s flag pin was discreetly fastened to her undergarment, because, of course, she must have had one pinned somewhere.

  • ABC tape delayed this debate for the west coast instead of presenting it live, as if it were news.

    They clearly conceived of it as a TV show, not a news event, and this is simply more evidence of that fact. They were looking for things they thought the public would find titillating and they only thing they can think of that is titillating is whatever the campaign press corps is talking about. That’s all they saw in McCabe’s story.

  • MY FELLOW “BITTER”, STUPID, WORKING CLASS PEOPLE 🙂

    If you think like Barack Obama, that WORKING CLASS PEOPLE are just a bunch of “BITTER”!, STUPID, PEASANTS, Cash COWS!, and CANNON FODDER. 🙁

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think Barack Obama with little or no experience would be better than Hillary Clinton with 35 years experience.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience can fix an economy on the verge of collapse better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) led the greatest economic expansion, and prosperity in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience fighting for universal health care can get it for you better than Hillary Clinton. Who anticipated this current health care crisis back in 1993, and fought a pitched battle against overwhelming odds to get universal health care for all the American people.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience can manage, and get us out of two wars better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) went to war only when he was convinced that he absolutely had to. Then completed the mission in record time against a nuclear power. AND DID NOT LOSE THE LIFE OF A SINGLE AMERICAN SOLDIER. NOT ONE!

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience saving the environment is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) left office with the greatest amount of environmental cleanup, and protections in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with little or no education experience is better than Hillary Clinton. Whose 😉 husband (Bill Clinton) made higher education affordable for every American. And created higher job demand and starting salary’s than they had ever been before or since.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that Obama with no experience will be better than Hillary Clinton who spent 8 years at the right hand of President Bill Clinton. Who is already on record as one of the greatest Presidents in American history.

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think that you can change the way Washington works with pretty speeches from Obama, rather than with the experience, and political expertise of two master politicians ON YOUR SIDE like Hillary and Bill Clinton..

    You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you think all those Republicans voting for Obama in the Democratic primaries, and caucuses are doing so because they think he is a stronger Democratic candidate than Hillary Clinton. 🙂

    Best regards

    jacksmith… Working Class 🙂

    p.s. You Might Be An Idiot! 🙂

    If you don’t know that the huge amounts of money funding the Obama campaign to try and defeat Hillary Clinton is coming in from the insurance, and medical industry, that has been ripping you off, and killing you and your children. And denying you, and your loved ones the life saving medical care you needed. All just so they can make more huge immoral profits for them-selves off of your suffering…

    You see, back in 1993 Hillary Clinton had the audacity, and nerve to try and get quality, affordable universal health care for everyone to prevent the suffering and needless deaths of hundreds of thousands of you each year. 🙂

    Approx. 100,000 of you die each year from medical accidents from a rush to profit by the insurance, and medical industry. Another 120,000 of you die each year from treatable illness that people in other developed countries don’t die from. And I could go on, and on…

  • DON’T BE DUPED !!!

    Large numbers of Republicans have been voting for Barack Obama in the DEMOCRATIC primaries, and caucuses from early on. Because they feel he would be a weaker opponent against John McCain. With Hillary Clinton you are almost 100% certain to get quality, affordable universal health care very soon.

    But first, all of you have to make certain that Hillary Clinton takes the democratic nomination and then the Whitehouse. NOW! is the time. THIS! is the moment you have all been working, and waiting for. You can do this America. “Carpe diem” (harvest the day).

    I think Hillary Clinton see’s a beautiful world of plenty for all. She’s a woman, and a mother. And it’s time America. Do this for your-selves, and your children’s future. You will have to work together on this and be aggressive, relentless, and creative. Americans face an even worse catastrophe ahead than the one you are living through now.

    You see, the medical and insurance industry mostly support the republicans with the money they ripped off from you. And they don’t want you to have quality, affordable universal health care. They want to be able to continue to rip you off, and kill you and your children by continuing to deny you life saving medical care that you have already paid for. So they can continue to make more immoral profits for them-selves.

    Hillary Clinton has actually won by much larger margins than the vote totals showed. And lost by much smaller vote margins than the vote totals showed. Her delegate count is actually much higher than it shows. And higher than Obama’s. She also leads in the electoral college numbers that you must win to become President in the November national election. HILLARY CLINTON IS ALREADY THE TRUE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE!

    As much as 30% of Obama’s primary, and caucus votes are Republicans trying to choose the weakest democratic candidate for McCain to run against. These Republicans have been gaming the caucuses where it is easier to vote cheat. This is why Obama has not been able to win the BIG! states primaries. Even with Republican vote cheating help.

    Hillary Clinton has been OUT MANNED! OUT GUNNED! and OUT SPENT! 4 and 5 to 1. Yet Obama has only been able to manage a very tenuous, and questionable tie with Hillary Clinton.

    If Obama is the democratic nominee for the national election in November he will be slaughtered. Because the Republican vote cheating help will suddenly evaporate. All of this vote fraud and republican manipulation has made Obama falsely look like a much stronger candidate than he really is. YOUNG PEOPLE. DON’T BE DUPED! Think about it. You have the most to lose.

    The democratic party needs to fix this outrage. Everyone needs to throw all your support to Hillary Clinton NOW! So you can end this outrage against YOU the voter, and against democracy.

    The democratic party, and the super-delegates have a decision to make. Are the democrats, and the democratic party going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee to fight for the American people. Or are the republicans going to choose the DEMOCRATIC party nominee through vote fraud, and gaming the DEMOCRATIC party primaries, and caucuses.

    Fortunately the Clinton’s have been able to hold on against this fraudulent outrage with those repeated dramatic comebacks of Hillary Clinton’s. Only the Clinton’s are that resourceful, and strong. Hillary Clinton is your NOMINEE. They are the best I have ever seen.

    “This is not a game” (Hillary Clinton)

    Sincerely

    jacksmith… Working Class 🙂

  • This is now beyond absurdity. Clinton wasn’t wearing a flag pin either. I just visited the Clinton and McCain web sites, and in their lead videos, neither is wearing a flag pin.

    Also, if McCabe wasn’t questioning Obama’s patriotism, what was her point? Is the desire to affix such a pin related to qualifications for being president, but not a test of patriotism?

  • I think we can all agree the “flag pin” question was a bit much, though I didn’t realize “the women on the street” who asked the question was actually someone the NY Times quoted about this, but all these other questions really were legitimate. The media has focused on the Rev. Wright and “bitter” remarks ad nauseum, and this IS the first debate held since these issues came up. But the larger point is that of the other 20-something debates, many of them focused rather harshly on Clinton’s negatives. This ONE debate was more focused on Obama’s, the front runner’s, negatives, and the whining is deafening – just deafening. I think that highlights pretty starkly just how great the bias in the media really is. And let’s face it, if he had actually performed well, no one would be saying a word, other than to praise how he tough he is.

    This entire argument highlights IMO a greater issue, the liberal media’s overwhelming favoritism toward Obama, and that’s actually the more substantive issue here. When Clinton was the front-runner, that was the “excuse” for her getting the majority of the hammering. If Obama makes it to the general election, you can bet he’s going to get roughed up plenty and that these issues are going to come up again.

    I know Obama supporters and the Obamedia are angry about this debate – well take a walk in my shoes. This is how the frustraition feels when the media is unduly influencing this election.

    But Obama sure never complained about being the liberal media’s darling for all these months. So . . . he can cry me a river. He’s still way ahead on the media bias scale.

    Here’s an interesting article on the pin issue:

    CNN’s glass house: Sr. VP reportedly criticized ABC debate question about flag pin — but CNN has repeatedly covered issue

    http://mediamatters.org/items/200804180011

  • Instead of blaming and berating Mrs. McCabe, put the blame where blame is due…the MEDIA.

    I am a Baby Boomer. I still fly the American flag on my front porch. I am a “Bible thumper”. I don’t care WHAT race my President is as long as he loves America and wants to do what is best for all it’s citizens. I even would have voted for Mitt Romney despite the fact that I disagree intensely with his religious beliefs. I believe he stands firm on family and country. I am proud of all these things.

    Patriotism is extremely important to me and I also, like Mrs. McCabe, look for patriotism in my government’s leaders. Maybe it has something to do with being a product of the ’60’s.

    I suspect Mrs. McCabe felt honored to be asked to share her question on a television program that would be viewed by millions. She really IS concerned about Obama’s patriotism. Leave Mrs. McCabe alone. She already has enough problems without all this disruption in her life.

    BTW, have any of the “caring people” out there that don’t seem to do anything but talk and fuss bothered to find out how her husbands surgery (which was performed earlier this week) came out?

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