It depends on what the meaning of ‘influential’ (and ‘pundit) is

It’s obviously just a conversation piece, meant for water-cooler fodder, but it’s Friday afternoon, and I kind of like mulling over conversation pieces like these.

London’s Telegraph likes to run occasional lists about American politics. It’s latest installment counts down the most influential political pundits in the country.

With the internet revolution and the growing popularity of cable television, the multitude of voices can seem be bewildering and, occasionally, deafening.

The Telegraph today unveils its list of the 50 most influential political pundits to help readers sort through whose opinions matter. These are the people who make voters sit up and take notice. They are the ones who political candidates and campaigns are constantly seeking to woo and influence. They include television presenters, newspaper columnists, bloggers and talking heads.

An added goal, the Telegraph said, was to reward “those with the most potential to influence events over the coming months rather than simply the stalwarts of past years…. While being opinionated did not guarantee consideration, having strong opinions was a key factor. Many important journalists have been left out because they portray themselves as objective and seek to inform rather than persuade.”

Now that I’ve seen who made the list and who didn’t, I’m left with a few questions.

The top 10:

10. Mark Halperin, the political analyst for Time and a ubiquitous television presence

9. David Brooks, the NYT columnist and a ubiquitous television presence

8. Jon Stewart, host of The Daily Show

7. Tim Russert, host of Meet the Press and DC bureau chief of NBC News

6. Matt Drudge, proprietor of the Drudge Report

5. John Harris and Jim Vandehei, founders of Politico.com

4. Rush Limbaugh, radio talk-show host

3. Sean Hannity, Fox News host and radio talk-show host

2. Chris Matthews, host of “Hardball” and the “Chris Matthews Show”

1. Karl Rove, columnist for Newsweek and the Wall Street Journal, analyst for Fox News

Now, putting aside ideological problems and questions of reliability, I’ll gladly concede that most of these guys — all 11 are white men — are, in fact, influential. Mark Halperin is everywhere and is read by everyone. The establishment never misses “Meet the Press.” Most political reporters, for reasons that I’ll never understand, consider Drudge an assignment editor. When Limbaugh barks, his minions jump.

But some of these choices strike me as odd. First, I’m not sure how the Telegraph defines “pundit.” Russert, for example, is rarely, if ever, outwardly opinionated. Stewart is wildly influential — Maureen Dowd recently acknowledged that she takes notes while watching The Daily Show — but I suspect he wouldn’t care for the “pundit” label at all.

Second, some of these choices in the top 10 don’t seem especially powerful. Sean Hannity is a rather mundane, predictable party hack. He’s not “influential” in any meaningful way — he regurgitates Republican talking points for a Republican audience. That’s not influence, it’s boredom. (Consider this: how often does anyone hear anyone say, “Sean Hannity raised a really interest point on that topic….”?)

Similarly, how are clowns like Matthews and Rove likely to “influence events over the coming months”?

And just as an aside, there were three bloggers on the list. Drudge was #6, Andrew Sullivan was #17, and Arianna Huffington was #26. If bloggers count as pundits, it seems to me that Markos, Josh Marshall, and Atrios, among others, are at least as influential in the political world, if not more so, than most of the people in the top 50. (I mean, really. Who’s prepared to argue that Michael Savage, who was #25, has more political influence than TPM? Or Mary Matalin at #49 is more powerful than DailyKos?)

So, what’d you think of the list?

I don’t know Halperin very well, but 8 of the top 9 are conservatives. Someone besides Stewart must be influential on the left. I would add Olbermann, Seymour Hersch, Krugman, and Bill Moyers.

  • Where was Jonah Golberg? What about K-Lo or any of the other wise folks from the NRO?!?

    But seriously, I don’t get how they are coming some of these people.

  • (Consider this: how often does anyone hear anyone say, “Sean Hannity raised a really interest point on that topic….”?)
    Never
    His audience would say somthing like “He really put his boot up that pissant’s ass!” (followed by spitting tobacco chaw)
    And most would not be as classy as the woman saying that!

  • To infer that I was not selected as one of the Telegraph’s Top 10 most influential pundits simply because my name does not appear on the list could kill people.

  • Just look at who owns the Telegraph. You can always rely on right wing framing coming from the Telegraph.

  • Mark Levin lol WTF? The list is a joke. Maureen, Friedman and Novack are surely more influential.

  • With the exception of John Stewart every person on that list is someone I know to NEVER listen to or believe. It’s really that simple. If their lips are moving, they’re blustering, equivocating, dissembling or just outright lying.

    For all I that I truly enjoy Stephen Colbert and John Stewart I’ll never forget the night that Michelle Obama was on. My husband remarked, “They must be really good guys. I’ve never seen you pay attention to two white guys so much.”

    And I told him, “Yes. But for all that I enjoy their shows, I can’t forget that I can count on one hand the number of black women they’ve had in the interview seat. Just like the rest of America, they can do better (although Colbert does much better than Stewart, I think he’s up to four now).

  • OOPs, Keith Olbermann’s gonna be really pissed that he was rated #14 and Bill O’Reilly (“Bill-O”) was rated at #13!

  • One must remember that the paper is called the Torrygraph for a reason — it’s the UK’s answer to the Washington Times.

    The fact they had any liberals on the list surprised me, to be honest.

    And it’d be nice if someone would list these clowns not on how much alleged “influence” they have, but how many of their ideas/takes/predictions have been proven correct.

    I’m guessing that list that wouldn’t include 90 percent of the folks on this one.

  • Given the number of politicans and media figures who have tangled with hte Lizardoid Army, and lost, I’d have to rates Charles Johnson, Litttle Green Foootballs, in tn the mix.

  • I find it curious that a UK paper is analyzing American “pundits.” To what end?

    American’s will now read this with it making the round on blogs (and I am sure that many on the tee vee’s will also espouse the grand declaration), but how many people in the UK have either a clue or an interest?

    And the point of this entry in the Telegraph is, what? I’m at a loss.

  • As joey and MarkD have mentioned, the telegraph has always leaned heavily to the right. Just follow the link to the article and check out the general tenor of the comments.

    More of the list:

    11. STEPHEN COLBERT
    12. BILL O’REILLY
    13. KEITH OLBERMANN
    14. CHUCK TODD
    15. BILL MAHER
    16. GLENN BECK
    17. ANDREW SULLIVAN
    18. FRANK LUNTZ
    19. DONNA BRAZILE
    20. JOE KLEIN

    And you know they put BillO right above Keith just to piss him off – that’s not reality based. Maybe the Guardian can do their list and then we can split the difference.

    I’m having trouble with the Telgraph site, and for some reason can’t get to the third page.

  • I’m having trouble with the Telgraph site, and for some reason can’t get to the third page.

    The “Related Content” links worked for me, while the other links were severely broken.

    After a few “wha?” moments, I just treated the whole thing as someone across the pond sniffing republican bum.

  • Who you influence(thoughtful individuals) and how(by rational, honest argument) you influence them gives a more valuable appraisal of merit. Given their list, one tends to think they equate pundits with spin doctors, con-artists, entertainers, or shepards. Very sadly, the categories mentioned have far more influence on the electorate than reason. A person, no matter how popular or influential, or even rational and honest, is just a person; a good argument is a treasure.

  • Molly Ivins is dead and can still outpundit all of them.

    Politico? Really?? Didn’t they just begin last Thursday?

    Based on ratings and audience, I’d add Randi Rhodes and Ed Schulz. And O’Reilly and Olbermann.

    I don’t think Hannity, Matthews, the Politico guys and Rove belong on the list. (As a pundit, Rove has yet to prove himself; for now, he’s just a party hack.)

    I watched that whole list come down from 100 and I think they’re way off the mark. For all I know, Mike Wallace still impacts more people than some on this top ten

  • This must be spoof. Beck with the lowest rated talk show on TV is number16?

  • #16, no kidding.

    And I love that Beck might be considered some fantastic American by other countries if that is what influences us.

    Ugh.

    But one more reason they can hate us.

  • In my rather long experience of “America-hating” – since I was 14 years old, now 44 years ago, when the Vietnam war was raging and the US was buying my country and my culture, I’ve very very rarely met anyone who hates individual Americans or even “American people” as a group. I think it is much more a response to American power and the way it is used and to American foreign policy. It’s really important to understand that since, from the kinds of things I read and the pundits I listen to, many Americans feel the same way. Just imagine how it feels when you are at the butt end of that power. Well, these days, maybe you don’t have to imagine, since you, the people, are often at the butt end of it. Cheer up kids, people don’t hate you unless they already have a proclivity for hatred, or unless US foreign policy sowed the seeds of the hatred.

    I have to add, though, that though I would hope that I wouldn’t ever fall into the self-defeating trap of hating anyone, I do sometimes wonder what’s going on in your country. Well enough, I see the huge numbers of people who don’t support Bushy, but where the hell where they in 2004? If the people who voted him in then couldn’t see the writing on the wall – well, I just don’t get it. To say nothing of where the American people and their representatives were in 2003 when he decided to attack Iraq.

    And to ask why the Brits are interested in American political punditry is naive beyond belief. America affects the world more than any other country. If you all think your election is important for the future of America, you should see how it feels in the rest of the world, where we have no power whatsoever, not even the power of the vote, to affect the outcome. But “we” will be affected in dire ways, sometimes more so than all of you.

    I watch more American news these days than any other kind. A large proportion of the world devotes at least a large portion of its news delivery systems to US news. You know how sometimes a friend or person not too close to you can see you better than you can see yourselves? It might be helpful to Americans to develop a taste for learning how they are perceived in the rest of the world. That is, if they could drop their defensiveness. As far as the pundits go, I bet I watch more of them than the average American. Yet I only know a few. The ones who appear on CNN and on PBS. But that doesn’t mean I’d blow off The Telegraph’s opinion. I’d like to see how many viewers those (almost all) guys have – that might give us some idea of how many people they influence and I bet it’s more people than Bill Moyers touches, love the guy though I do.

    By the way, I am as critical of my own country, Canada, as I am of yours. And when people are pissed off with my country’s policies, I try not to take it personally. Especially since I work my ass off against neoconservatism and neoliberalism every day of my life and have not yet, in my lifetime, voted anyone into power, though I’ve never failed to vote. Patriotism is a trap.

    Sorry for the lecture. Well, not really sorry … obviously …

  • I find it curious that a UK paper is analyzing American “pundits.” To what end? — MsJoanne, @11

    As hysperia, @18, said… the world is watching us, trying to understand what we’re doing and why (what in God’s name has motivated us to re-elect Bush in ’04?).

    When I go back to Poland to visit, I never lose out on what’s happening in US — they keep up. When I once mentioned (on an international lacemaking list) how embarassed I was to discover that my husband was related to Cheney, replies from the Netherlands, Germany and France came in within 12 hrs, consoling me: he was related to Obama, also. Replies from Oz and South Aftica followed in the next 12 hours, with the same message.

    We’re big; we’re important. Perhaps not as important as we think we are but, definitely, worth watching, just as one would watch an oversized bully with an undersized IQ throwing his weight around the sandbox. Think what happened to the “world” (well… Europe) in 1929, when the Wall Street bankers started jumping out of the windows… it took WWII for the world economy to recover. And that was before the meshing of various economies became as tight as it is now.

    Of course they parse us and our every move and word; their own lives may depend on what we do. So, they need to know who we’re listening to. Whether the Telegraph is rigging their results to reflect a more right-wing skew of US than in fact exist, I don’t know. It is entirely possible that it’s us — those reading “the lefty blogs” — who have lost touch with the larger “audience”, while we’re clinging to our sanity via trying to stay within the realms of reality; who knows?

  • CRITERIA OF “INFLUENTIAL” IS A HEAD-FAKE: Go ahead and please these publisher by seriously trying to parse the thing, but this pleathora (since ~1990) of all these MOST INFLUENTIAL list is juvenile. They are mostly about declaring who’s out…not in-the-club…to be held-at-bay, while in the process stroking the ego’s of their allies…”Bleech!”

  • The Telegraph is a fairly conservative broadsheet so it’s not surprising this list tilts republican. Though they have been very pro-Obama in their coverage of the primary, weirdly.

    And I think the answer to the ‘Why is a UK paper analyzing the American punditocracy is pretty simple: the whole thing strikes UK readers as bizarre and exotic. There’s only a handful of people over here that would have that kind of presence in the national consciousness (the BBC’s Jeremy Paxman is probably the closest to a Russert-type figure). We watch the American press with a sort of mute horror as they discuss a candidate’s bowling scores as if they were somehow relevant to how they would run the country (not to say the press over here is perfect, it’s just fucked up in an entirely different way, Elliot Spitzer would have been a fixture on the front pages for ever and ever).

  • And libra, my country had the strongest economy in the Western world till two months ago,when the US sub-prime mortgage fiasco sent us into a downturn. Like the rest of the world. Many people can’t even EAT now. We tend to suffer when the US economy is going well. And we tend to suffer when it isn’t. And still you won’t let us vote! 🙂

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