The dubious reliability of running-mate polls

A couple of the new national polls out today point to a lot of Dems who seem to think Hillary Clinton would be a fine running mate. The latest numbers from Gallup point to a majority of rank-and-file Dems who like the idea of an Obama/Clinton ticket.

A new Gallup poll shows 55 percent of Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents surveyed think Obama should offer the New York senator a spot on his ticket. That number is significantly influenced by Clinton’s supporters — close the 75 percent of her backers want the No. 2 spot to be offered, while only 43 percent of Obama supporters feel the same.

The poll comes as some of Clinton’s highest profile backers increasingly suggest Obama and Clinton should team up for the general election. Speaking in New York Friday, Sen. Chuck Schumer said he at first didn’t think such a team was possible but now believes “it could be.”

“Hillary and Barack have both run very strong and great races, and I think they’d be a strong ticket together,” he said.

Rep. Charlie Rangel, who also backs Clinton, also put his support behind a joint ticket Monday. Speaking on CNN, the New York congressman said such a scenario would be “terrific,” adding “I hope it works out that way.”

In the new WaPo/ABC poll, Dems were given an open-ended question about a possible Obama running mate, and about four in 10 named Clinton as their choice, followed by John Edwards, who drew 10%. (The Post added, “[M]ost Americans, including a slim majority of Democrats, said putting Clinton on the ticket would not have much effect on their vote in November.”)

I don’t doubt that Clinton enjoys an enormous base of support within the party. That should be pretty obvious — she’s won more 15 million Democratic votes at this point. For her most enthusiastic supporters, having Clinton on the ticket, even in the #2 slot, is better than nothing.

But I thought I’d take a minute to note that polls about running mates don’t mean a whole lot.

I went back and started poking through polls from the 2000 race, shortly after Bush and Gore had effectively secured their party’s nomination. Asked who the candidates should pick for their tickets, a Zogby poll from March 2000 showed Bill Bradley as the top choice for Dems, followed by former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell. Republicans in the poll were nearly tied between Elizabeth Dole and John McCain. A few weeks later, a Fox News poll showed similar results, with Bradley and McCain getting pluralities. In May 2000, an NBC/WSJ poll found the same thing.

Four years later, Dems were asked in the spring of 2004 who John Kerry should pick for the Democratic ticket. Most polls showed John Edwards as the clear favorite, with Hillary Clinton coming in second in several polls. (Wesley Clark and Howard Dean also fared pretty well in these polls.)

I think you see where I’m going with this. These VP polls tend to measure name recognition — and most VP candidates aren’t well known to a national audience. Before 2000, I suspect most Republicans were not at all familiar with Dick Cheney, but then they got to know him pretty quickly. The same was true of Joe Lieberman.

I did a radio show the other day, and mentioned some names of people I thought Obama might consider, including Sebelius, Webb, Strickland, Sherrod Brown, and Napolitano. I was talking to some pretty well-informed people, but of the group, only Webb’s name was familiar. If they were polled with an open-ended question, these names wouldn’t have come up at all.

The point isn’t whether Clinton would be a good choice for Obama or not; that’s a separate matter. The point is these VP polls don’t tell us a whole lot. Obama may very well pick a running mate who isn’t nationally known, but I suspect we’d all get to know him or her pretty quickly.

Exactly.

As a Clarkie, I’d still like to see it be him, but he’s a Clinton supporter and while Clark may have the best military/brilliance resume to bring to the office of VP, there are probably others who could be better strategic choices — usually popular governors or former governors who can bring a chancy state with them. I kind of like Webb, but who was the guy who dropped out before the race really began who was supposed to be very popular in Virginia (and a little to the right of most of the other candidates)? I guess I also think that white male is strategically a better way to go.

  • Clinton as VP? I sure hope not. Can you imagine how Bill C. (and Hillary to a lesser extent) would overshadow (and perhaps work against) an Obama presidency?

    Was it here or somewhere else that I read that Obama doesn’t seem to do as well with her around. Maybe something about her just throws him?

    He needs someone he can trust and who can complement his experience/knowledge. I think CB is right on the mark with the name recognition idea.

  • If he picks Clinton the campaign will be nothing but non-stop Bill and Hillary psychodrama. Obama doesn’t need that. I think there are far better choices that would be more helpful in the long run.

  • It used to be that running mates were selected largely on the basis of geography – A southern white man (With “white man” a given) had to be somewhere on the ticket. Not anymore.

    Now, with a black man and a woman on the democratic side, and an old white man on the right, the stark contrast in the demographics of the race have become important. Hillary should be Sec of State – It’s a good fit for her. Obama should choose a woman, young enough to be a natural successor in 8 years.

  • Strategically speaking, the best choice would clearly be the person that has already proven she can get half of the democrats to vote for her.

  • Tweety ran several possibilites by a couple of “strategists” on his show last night — Jenny Backus was one and I don’t recall the other one’s name. They both ended up being most enthusiastic about Hegel. Kinda like the idea myself.

  • Quite honestly, I think the Obama campaign should avoid Clinton and her operatives/supporters as far much as possible.

    This isn’t to say that they should ignore the base of support that she draws. He should select someone a touch more conservative than he is on a number of issues.

    He’s run on a campaign of his opposing the Iraq invasion. I think he’d lose a great deal of respect by selecting someone (Clinton) who voted to authorize the Bush Administration to bomb Iraq.

    I think a far better choice would be someone like Jim Webb. He also didn’t support the war, and I think would be great against John McCain. Webb and McCain are already at odds over the GI Education bill Webb introduced (something I believe Obama indicated he’d support).

  • America’s obsession with the ‘running mate’ is unparalleled in the world. Enough already with the ‘balanced ticket’ discussions, please…

    (eg: should Obama pick a white, southern, old, fat, blond woman governor with national security experience?)

    Shut up and let the nominee fricking choose.

  • This point has been made in many other posts, but it seems to quickly be forgotten, so it seems important to make again. Because VPs rarely seem to help a ticket, what is important is to pick who you want to have leading the party at the end of eight years in the white house. I don’t want to pick a Republican, ie Hegal, unless he/she is truly converting over to the D’s. This would just set us up for trouble in 2016. I think we should be asking ourselves: Who would be the best person to lead the D’s in a presidential run in 2016.

    Who is that person?

  • On May 13th, 2008 at 2:47 pm, Patrick said:
    Strategically speaking, the best choice would clearly be the person that has already proven she can get half of the democrats to vote for her.

    That’s…one opinion.

    There’s also an opinion that the presidential nominee should choose a running mate that he would feel comfortable with, feel secure in the knowledge that the veep would continue the prez’s agenda should the prez be unable to fulfill his term in office, not overshadow the prez, not embarrass the prez, not scandalize the Administration, or alienate voters during the campaign. And lots of people feel Hillary is the sort of running mate who would run contradictory towards that ideal.

    That would be known as the “intelligent” or, if you prefer, the “smart” opinion.

  • My choice of Webb isn’t just about electability. It’s about actually reaching out ao wider base of people; beyond the progressive wing of the Democratic Party. A broader coalition of people across a number of different areas would make running the country a lot easier than running from one extreme political end, as the American Right-Wing has during the Bush years.

    He (Webb) has got a record of public service (His military service, Reagan Assistant Secretary of Defense for Reserve Affairs, then Secretary Of The Navy).

    I also was very impressed with his response to the 2006 State Of The Union speech.

  • CB is right on when he says that name recognition plays a big part. It is, in large part, name recognition (and her proximity to the former president) that gave Senator Clinton the tremendous advantage she held over better and more experienced opponents during this primary process.

    Personally, I don’t want her on the ticket…I don’t want her to be the Senate Majority Leader…and if we’re lucky, the people of New York kick her out of the senate in 2012.

    I look forward to the day that we elect a woman president and/or vice president. I just don’t want that woman to be a somebody who gets there primarily because of her husband’s accomplishments and in spite of her own (e.g. voting for Iraq, voting for the bankruptcy bill, voting for Kyl-Lieberman, “obliterating Iran” comment, divisive electioneering, pandaring, …).

  • The dubious reliability of running-mate polls

    2000—Dick Cheney does his own poll, and decides that Dick Cheney is the obvious VP choice.

    The prosecution rests, your honorable CB-ness

    farmgirl—Hegel? A little quasi-Kant-ish, I would think.

    I wouldn’t pull anyone from the Senate for the slot; we need all the heavy-hitters we can muster for the final assault on all things Bushylvanian. Webb is a one-man brigade. I’ll even go so far as to say leave Clinton in the Senate—who knows what she might be capable of, once weaned from the kool aid?

    If Obama really wants to portray his administration as “not connected to the DC inside-ership game,” he’ll need to go with someone from outside DC. Most likely a governor. I’m still partial to Richardson, but you can have Ted Strickland if you want (and I promise I’ll still support Obama if you do)….

  • Steve makes me excited to be an Ohioan.
    I’d prefer Obama take Brown over Strickland, though. Strickland has been a pretty strong Clinton supporter while Brown, if I’m not mistaken, has remained neutral throughout.

  • I was at a house party for Hillary Clinton the Saturday before the Indiana primaries. Rob Reiner was sent as a surrogate. Yes, that Rob Reiner, and he was passionate in his support. He was asked the following question “As a Hillary supporter, the fact that so many former Clinton supporters, such as Bill Richardson, are switching thier support to Obama gives me pause. What do they know that we don’t know?” Rob Reiner then stated that the reason Richardson switched is that Obama offered Richardson the VP slot. The campaign had gotten wind of this at some point and had ordered Bill Clinton to leave the campaign trail to watch the Super Bowl with Richardson and to try to convince him otherwise. If this is true, it may explain some of the vehemence in the reaction to Richardson’s switch both on the part of Bill and James Carville.

  • The Clintons would be a poor choice for VEEP for Senator Obama. The Clinton’s political philosiphy comes from the gutter and is used to advance the Clinton’s first, and only. Their concerns are not for Americans as repeatedly attested by their speeches and strategies.America cannot tolerate more years of selfishness, and greed for power. Also Bill Clinton has shown time and again he will do whatever he wants and can not be trusted any more than his wife can be trusted. Barack Obama will choose someone who will augment his philosophy;have integrity and authenticity; who will help to rebuild America so denigrated by the Republican party.

  • Forget Richardson.
    He stated he wouldn’t come out against AG Gonzalez because they’re both hispanic.
    Complete lack of character.

  • Zachary

    I agree with you but would add a couple more necessary characteristics.

    Whoever the VP is in Obama’s case, that person must be uniquely qualified by already being in support of his new vision for government, leaving behind the fraud-riddled old Washington traditions. The two must stand head and shoulders above the Republicans who will continue as they have been, and Democrats, too.

    Then, to the extent that a VP candidate MIGHT bring in more votes for the presidential candidate, I think that should be the third consideration.

    And FWIW, Hillary Clinton doesn’t fill the bill on any of those characteristics.

  • Hillary would be a great choice… if it weren’t for Bill’s long shadow. Unfortunately Hillary for VP is a package deal. At least, the Republicans and the media will insist on it as a “twofer.”

    Bill has become a bit of a loony loose canon. Not that there is anything wrong with that. Lord knows the Dems could use a few loose canons. But here is the thing: Our loose canons can’t be the spouses of our two main candidates. Better put that in bolds:

    Our loose canons can’t be the spouses of our two main candidates.

    It might not be fair, but it is true.
    Here that Michelle?
    Every word matters…

  • I’m an Ohio resident and a big fan of both Sherrod Brown and Tim Strickland, but given that they were both recently elected, it’s unclear whether they would help the Democratic nominee carry the state.

  • Wes Clark immediately defuses the effect McCain’s military experience.

    Oh yeah, he was also a Rhodes scholar and finished 1st in his class at West Point (as opposed to 3rd from last in his class at the USNA), you know, all the reasons I froze my butt off for Clark in NH in 2004.

  • I like Wes Clark for the same reasons as Erik #23. It’s the only thing McCain has going for him if the media ever does its job and exposes the “maverick” myth.

  • With respect to the posters who have tried to include 2016 into their calculations of what makes a good running mate, I say: fuggeddaboudit. Who in 1999 could have predicted what happened in 2000, much less 2008? Politics is subject to all kinds of incalculable variables — events, first and foremost. Trying to arrive at a decision about something based on long-term political calculations is a very risky game.

    That’s basically what happened to Hillary Clinton’s campaign. In her long voyage for the Presidency, she set her course back in 2002 with her vote on the Iraq War Resolution. As the political winds changed, her campaign just got blown off course.

  • Strategically speaking, the best choice would clearly be the person that has already proven she can get half of the democrats to vote for her. -Patrick

    And that’s the kind of strategery that has Democrats addicted to losing. First, you’re presupposing that Democrats won’t support the nominee they didn’t vote for in the primary. Second, you’re forgetting you’ve got to get more than just Democrats to win in the general. Third, she is not needed to deliver New York. Fourth, I just don’t think the two candidates are compatible.

  • FWIW, I think there’s already going to be alot for many people to get acclimated to just having Obama as the nominee without adding the benefit of also having the first women as his running mate (not to mention all her attendant baggage)…I just think it might be to much for some to swallow…baby steps…one thing at a time…

  • count me as another Obama/Clark 2008 fan!

    but who was the guy who dropped out before the race really began who was supposed to be very popular in Virginia (and a little to the right of most of the other candidates)?

    Warner. Although my understanding is he’s considering running for the Senate seat (ironically held by another man with the same last name). If he weren’t running for the Senate, I think he would be a great choice: as former poplular Gov of VA he’d likely turn that state blue and his success in the corporate world could potentially be put to good use on the domestic front while Obama focuses mainly on the foreign policy front (not that he’d ignore domestic policy of course).

  • I sincerely hope Obama doesn’t offer the VP slot to Hillary. If there is one thing that will completely unite the Republicans, it’s the thought of Hillary and Bill back in the W.H. (especially Bill). And if Obama won the presidency despite the Clinton anchor, his presidency would be severely crippled by that association.

  • I really don’t care who Obama chooses as a running mate as long as he doesn’t choose Hillary “Hellcat” Clinton. That woman is toxic and she would be a problem for Obama from day one. Please, Obama, do not allowed yourself to be coerced or threatened into putting Hillary on the ticket. Choose someone you trust and feel comfortable with.

  • I’d me more than happy with Clark or Richardson — who was my first choice for Pres until he proved to be a weak campaigner. But my first choice is Sebelius. (I didn’t know her father was John Gilligan, and it was her father-in-law who was the long-time Republican Congressman.) A woman, Catholic, attractive, all strong plusses, her positions are solid — maybe too ‘centrist’ for some of us here, but we aren’t representative. She’s been a very popular governor — but is term-limited. She was already being spoken of as a possible Presidential candidate for 12 or 16.

    Most of all, she has convinced a major part of the Kansas Republican party — once as ‘red’ as you get — not just to support her but to join the Democratic party. I hope Obama takes a good long look at her.

    As for Hillary, no, no, No, NO! She has made herself a national joke — anybody see the SNL sketch Keith ran last night? — can’t be trusted, has made too many personal attacks, and comes with Bill’s baggage — and worse, Bill.

    And, as a Virginian wrote — I think here — don’t take one of our Senators. Webb won, but what Democrat would replace him, and even redstate blogs already have conceded that Warner will win the other seat easily.

  • The thing about Clark and Richardson is that they both weren’t very good campaigners. While I think either would add a lot to an Obama Administration, I fear neither would be an effective campaigner in getting that Administration’s Chief Executive elected. I guess if I had to choose between the two of them, I’d lead more towards Clark.

    Prup -31 so if you don’t want to see Webb leave his Senate post (and I believe that publically he’s not indicated any real interest in the VP job), who would be a good alternative that isn’t Clark or Richardson?

  • Prup, did you see her response to the SOTU?

    It was weak stuff. If people here thought Richardson and Clark were lacking on the campaign trail, Sebelius would make them look like, well, Obama. I watched, wanting to like her (people I know who have heard her in small settings were impressed) and was left thinking “she is not at all ready for prime time.”

  • NO! no, no, no, no, no!

    hillary would ruin everything that obama has to offer. she’s just more of the same old tired washington politics. obama has something new to offer, and he needs to find a running mate that would offer the same.

  • After this she has a real career on QVC.

    “Go to hilllaryclinton.com so I can retire my campaign debts (to myself)”

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