McCain foolishly raises the specter of a U.S. ‘surrender’

Every time John McCain aims low in his increasingly belligerent campaign rhetoric, I think about an item Time’s Joe Klein wrote about a month ago. Klein, a McCain admirer, predicted that McCain would avoid the cheap and pathetic style of campaigning we’re seeing now. McCain, Klein said, “sees the tawdry ceremonies of politics — the spin and hucksterism — as unworthy.” If he doesn’t, “McCain will have to live with the knowledge that in the most important business of his life, he chose expediency over honor. That’s probably not the way he wants to be remembered.”

Klein’s optimism is looking shaky. Consider how John McCain chose to honor Memorial Day.

“[Barack Obama] really has no experience or knowledge or judgment about the issue of Iraq and he has wanted to surrender for a long time,” the Arizona senator added. “If there was any other issue before the American people, and you hadn’t had anything to do with it in a couple of years, I think the American people would judge that very harshly.” […]

The Iraq war, which polls have shown that most of the country opposes, is shaping up to be a defining issue in the November presidential election. McCain, who wrapped up the GOP nomination in March, supports continued military involvement in Iraq; Obama, who has all but clinched the Democratic nomination, has called for withdrawing U.S. troops.

“For him to talk about dates for withdrawal, which basically is surrender in Iraq after we’re succeeding so well is, I think, really inexcusable,” said McCain, who has been to Iraq eight times, most recently in March.

Now, I’ve come to expect cheap rhetoric from John McCain, but “surrender” talk is generally more the province of right-wing blogs, not respected presidential candidates. Most Americans believe withdrawal from Iraq best serves American interests. Is McCain prepared to smear a majority of the country?

But that’s hardly the most nonsensical aspect of McCain’s attack. First, McCain decided to lash out at Obama for taking a sensible approach to Iraq on Memorial Day. This is a holiday for a reason — it’s about paying respect to those who made the ultimate sacrifice for their country. Can McCain — you know, the one who vowed to make this an “honorable” campaign — not see how wildly inappropriate this is?

Second, in what universe does McCain feel justified arguing that Obama’s “knowledge” and “judgment” on Iraq are lacking? Obama’s the one who’s been right about the war from the start, while McCain was the one who a) said the war would be short and easy; b) said Sunnis and Shi’ia would get along fine; c) insisted that the war was necessary to prevent Saddam Hussein from giving WMD to al Qaeda; d) said we had to “stay the course” with the Rumsfeld strategy; e) is still confused about Sunni, Shi’ia, al Qaeda, and Iran; and f) continues to believe the “surge” policy has brought about the non-existent political progress it was intended to create.

McCain may be too foolish to recognize his mistake, and too blinded by crass partisanship to approach his humiliating record with humility, but to lash out at Obama for being right is demonstrably ridiculous.

Third, and perhaps most importantly, who, exactly, does McCain think we would “surrender” to in Iraq were we to leave? I realize McCain isn’t the sharpest crayon in the box, but he does realize the nature of the conflict in Iraq, doesn’t he?

My hunch, reading over McCain’s obtuse and inarticulate assessments of the war, is that he’s deluded himself into thinking that the war in Iraq is with al Qaeda. That the Republican presidential candidate is confused about the source of violence in Iraq with the war in its sixth year doesn’t speak well of his competence, but with some regularity, McCain has said that “al Qaeda will then have won” if we withdraw U.S. troops.

Regrettably, McCain doesn’t have the foggiest idea what he’s talking about.

[S]ome students of the insurgency say Mr. McCain is making a dangerous generalization. “The U.S. has not been fighting Al Qaeda, it’s been fighting Iraqis,” said Juan Cole, a fierce critic of the war who is the author of “Sacred Space and Holy War: The Politics, Culture and History of Shi’ite Islam” and a professor of history at the University of Michigan. A member of Al Qaeda “is technically defined as someone who pledges fealty to Osama bin Laden and is given a terror operation to carry out. It’s kind of like the Mafia,” Mr. Cole said. “You make your bones, and you’re loyal to a capo. And I don’t know if anyone in Iraq quite fits that technical definition.”

Al Qaeda in Mesopotamia is just one group, though a very lethal one, in the stew of competing Sunni insurgents, Shiite militias, Iranian-backed groups, criminal gangs and others that make up the insurgency in Iraq. That was vividly illustrated last month when the Iraqi Army’s unsuccessful effort to wrest control of Basra from the Shiite militia groups that hold sway there led to an explosion of violence.

The current situation in Iraq should properly be described as “a multifactional civil war” in which “the government is composed of rival Shia factions” and “they are embattled with an outside Shia group, the Mahdi Army,” Ira M. Lapidus, a co-author of “Islam, Politics and Social Movements” and a professor of history at the Center for Middle Eastern Studies at the University of California, Berkeley, wrote in an e-mail message. “The Sunni forces are equally hard to assess,” he added, and “it is an open question as to whether Al Qaeda is a unified operating organization at all.”

Before McCain starts irresponsibly throwing around painfully stupid rhetoric about “surrender,” maybe he could take a moment to learn something about the war he helped create more than five years ago. While he’s at it, if could also pause to consider why it’s crass and disrespectful to make these kinds of attacks on Memorial Day, I’m sure we’d all appreciate it.

You ain’t seen nothing left – expect mclame and his surrogates to drag this campaign right down the toilet bowl. It’s all they have – he is running as dur chimpfurher’s third term, the vision of America they share goes against the will of 80+ percent of the population.

They can’t really run on the issues – they have little or no support. All they can do it run a negative campaign, hope people stay home, and that the mighty wurlitzer can “catapult the propaganda” that somehow a stolen election can be justified.

Of course, shillary is doing her part, using kkkarl rove’s talking points, accepting the support of rush limbaugh, proclaiming that uneducated whites won’t support Obama (a lie), and now even talking about assassination.

  • my suggestion – keep a lot of Tidy Bowl around, you’re gonna need it.

  • I’d like to know just how many of the folks who argue against “surrender” in Iraq thionk we should have stayed in Vietnam and for how long?

    How long would victory have taken there?
    What should we have done?

    Given this insight into the past, how long can we expect Iraq to take for a satisfactory definition of victory (assuming “mission creep” doesn’t change that definition as soon as it is within reach like the last 5 times.)

    What should we do. What should we be prepared to do?
    What are the benefits of winning? ‘What will be the likely costs?
    Why is this “victory” worthwhile?

    Many of these questions, I suspect, would be considered blasphemous to even ask.

  • McCain, McStupid…whatever.
    Can McCain — you know, the one who vowed to make this an “honorable” campaign — not see how wildly inappropriate this is?
    See, he wants an honorable campaign as long as HE’S not the one being attacked. His idea of honor is being able to drop bombs on you from 30,000ft but you not being able to fire back.
    Watch as this race continues. You might see him flashback to 1968 in the middle of a Q&A session.

  • McCain’s stated position is wrong on so many levels. I think the most absurd new development, however, is that Lyndsay Graham and McCain are saying that Obama hasn’t been to Iraq since 2006, and that he needs to go back now so he can see the difference. What did McCain actually learn from taking a stroll through a market? Meetings in the Green Zone? Fly overs? This from the guy who celebrated his birthday with Bush while New Orleans’ citizens were drowning, or stuck at the Convention Center without food, water, or toilets?

    Though McCain wouldn’t agree to talk to his enemies, he might be well served by talking to Sistani. Why does Iraq’s chief pacifist now agree that it’s OK to attack Americans? Is a new strategy of bombing raids rather than street to street patrols improving our position in Iraq? Is this really part of an end game or just another schizophrenic twist that deepens distrust in the US? Lunch with the boys in the Green Zone isn’t going to answer these questions.

  • most importantly, who, exactly, does McCain think we would “surrender” to in Iraq were we to leave?

    This always my first thought when someone says “surrender.” There is never going to be a “USS Missouri” moment, no pictures of a surrender document signing party…

  • This is what happens when you invade a country that never threatened you on any meaningful level. This is what happens when you invade a country who’s culture is so different from your own and that you didn’t even think was worth the time to study. I think the main question is, who would we be surrendering to?
    Al Queda in Iraq is not the reason we went into Iraq (they didn’t exist yet). And what in the hell ever gave us the right to impose our concepts of freedom and democracy on people who didn’t ask for it. Proselytizing for the sake of the almight oil dollar. We must withdraw and pay for the reconstruction of the country we broke…that is the only way we can atone for the mess we have made…surrender is not a concept that I think of when I think of Iraq…shame is more like it…

  • Once John McCain is put in a position (oh, the debates are just one thing that comes to mind) to explain his positions rather than clumsily repeat conservative slogans, he will look even more rediculous. It long past the time for the American public to swallow the “victory” speech. It evident to even the marginally informed that Iraq is an unqualified disaster from a strategic, economic, national security and foreign policy point of view.

    John McCain and the Republicans will have to do alot more than spout “surrender!” and promise and endless road of more of the same if they want to see Iraq as a winning point for them in November. John McCain and the Republicans are drowning in the blood of Iraq, splashing around in it isn’t an answer.

  • Memekiller, did you intend “the most Muslim…” to be a link. If so it doesn’t work. If not, what do you mean by the most Muslim. Thanks.

  • What John and the “victory or bust crowd” don’t get is that there is NO victory in this invasion of Iraq. Period. Withdrawal is probably the least worst option for the US (not so much for the Iraqis though.)

  • Next he’s going to spend a lot of time repeating the “surrender” and “cut and run” meme.

    We should fully expect this (and worse) from McCain– he STILL supports an incredibly unpopular war and will soon accuse people who want us to withdraw as “cheese-eating surrender monkeys.”

    What else does he have left? McBush is going to run as King of the Military.

    I’m looking forward to Obama’s response to the man who just last week didn’t vote for the GI bill expansion– because he loves the troops that much.

  • George Bush surrendered to al Q when he invaded Iraq instead of pursuing bin Laden and working with other governments to tackle the global — not American — problem of terrorist networks.

    As for honoring our fallen, the best way to do that is to uphold the liberties they thought they were fighting for, and to never, never, never send them into harm’s way as anything but the last resort. Even then, you send them with the equipment they need and only on missions that have a clear, achievable objective.

    My 83-year old father (a WWII vet) spent the weekend selling poppies outside the local bank in his home town, just as he’s done for years. I try not to talk to him too much about what’s going on in America because I don’t want him to have to face the fact that so many Americans have been willing to squander the sacrifices that he and his buddies made. Deep down, he knows, just not the extent of how bad things have gotten.

    Bush and McCain understand nothing.

  • aiming low is the Republican way. How about Bush addressing the Knesset for the celebration of Israels 60th year and making a blatant political statement accusing the Democrats of appeasement!
    This election is going to get really dirty! Get ready,

  • We as a people are at a defining moment or Choice for our planet — that of right human relations with people everywhere in the world or the possible annihilation of our planet due to men with war-mongering minds who want to try and delude us that the continuation of wars with all the nuclear bombs out there will not somehow escalate into a full-blown war of these nuclear and atomic bombs which will surely bring about the destruction of the earth! So the question is, will we and can we chose peace and diplomacy or instead be led towards a steady drumbeat march toward wars and an eventual nuclear proliferation. It is our choice after all!

    And maybe in a thoughtful exit strategy out of the occupation of Iraq, which is not surrender because you can’t surrender from an occupation, we will not only find our self-dignity and respect again, we will find our souls.

  • When all those Iraqis waved their purple thumbs after electing their own government, we were done, even by the President’s (I like that designation “dur chimpfuhrer”) ever changing standards. It cannot be considered surrender when our soldiers have accomplished all that’s been expected of them and more. Bush and McSame simply expect MORE without granting them the respect of a bipartisan college bill for Vets.It cannot be considered surrender because the Iraqis can’t or won’t decide how to divide up their oil money.

    Trips to the market: Last year, McCain thought it was not extraordinary to have a flak jacket, a hundred soldiers and several helicopters guarding his stroll through the market in Baghdad. This year (since the situation is so improved?) they wouldn’t even allow him to go for his walk. Is this what he recommends for Obama ?

  • It’s a simple Rovian maneuver: take your opposition’s best feature and try to make it his worst feature.

    In this case, Obama’s initial opposition to the war, along with a plan to get us out of the war (which will be good for our economy, good for our security, and good for our moral standing in the world) are his best features, IMHO. And they are supported by many reasonable conservatives (the ones who see the fiscal insanity of our Iraqi occupation). McCain’s only hope is to somehow spin those good things to seem bad … “but, but, but he wants to surrendering here, you see, he’s appeasing and surrendering, and that’s bad, BAD, I tell ya.”

    Oh, yeah, and about McCain’s goal of running an honorable campaign … Obama has clearly been the more honorable one at this point, although nobody’s been perfect.

  • Glen Greenwald has pointed out how McOld still feels that our Air Force was stabbed in the back in VietNam – we could’ve had them “on their knees.” McCain has said that any U.S. conflict will be seen in light of our war in VietNam – he is still there. boys and girls.

  • What does surrendering an occupation even mean?

    By any reasonable set of metrics the war we started has been over for years (Saddam is out of power, they have no WMD). We’re now taking collateral damage from the ongoing Iraqi civil war being waged for control of post Saddam Iraq. We’re not a major player in this conflict. We can neither win not surrender.

    FWIW, the post Saddam Iraqi civil war was totally predictable.

  • If I may quibble?
    The “No Surrender” theme has been a prominent feature of Bombin’ Johnnie’s campaign since the very beginning. He has ALWAYS discussed withdrawal -under – fire in Iraq as ‘surrender.’

    “No Surrender” was the first thing McStain swore to. It is the pre-eminent plank in his platform of fear and loathing, which is obviously the only thing that the Pukes have on which to hang their Fall ‘campaign.’ Clearly the Pukes are ready to fall back on prepared positions–election fraud, vote theft, disenfranchisement, caging, etc–and the tender mercies of the lap-dog, CorpoRat/State press to prevail in the fall.

  • “For him to talk about dates for withdrawal, which basically is surrender in Iraq after we’re succeeding so well is, I think, really inexcusable,” said McCain, who has been to Iraq eight times, most recently in March.

    From Wikipedia:

    “A “Pyrrhic victory” is a victory with devastating cost to the victor. The phrase is an allusion to King Pyrrhus of Epirus, whose army suffered irreplaceable casualties in defeating the Romans at Heraclea in 280 BC and Asculum in 279 BC during the Pyrrhic War. After the latter battle, Plutarch relates in a report by Dionysius:

    The armies separated; and, it is said, Pyrrhus replied to one who congratulated him on his victory that “Another such victory over the Romans and we are undone.” He had lost a great part of the forces he brought with him, and almost all his particular friends and principal commanders; there were no others there to make recruits, and he found the confederates in Italy backward. On the other hand, as from a fountain continually flowing out of the city, the Roman camp was quickly and plentifully filled up with fresh men, not at all abating in courage for the loss they sustained, but even from their very anger gaining new force and resolution to go on with the war.”

    And off goes Pyrrhus McSame, out to tilt with windmills and step on his tongue.

  • As I’ve said before, the fact that McCain feels he has to make these utterly pathetic attacks just shows how weak he feels. Remember when he was wise enough to loudly state his disagreement with anti-Obama attack ads in order to help bring more attention to the ads while making McCain look above such negativity? That strategy seems to have been thrown out the window, and McCain now thinks that if he’s not the one sliming Obama that it’s not getting done.

    This is NOT how presidents act. Looks like somebody has no faith in the GOP slime machine.

  • McCain accused McRomney of wanting to raise the white flag of Surrender, too.

    McCain even suggested that Mittens owed an appology to the Troops for his behavoir.

  • McCain is a bag of contradictions and illogical logic, and it is only the general defect of the media and his Republican base which allows him to get away with it. This defect is having no memory of what was said in the previous phrase, much less yesterday or last month. How else to explain the ability to run a successful campaign on one or two word phrases.

    Anyway, one bit of illogic is visiting Iraq and talking to Petraeus. What we need is a map of all of the locations that McCain has visited in Iraq, add in Bush, Graham, etc. and it probably adds up to not much, maybe compare that to Obama’s campaign in Rhode Island.

    In addition McCain seems to forget that he passed up an opportunity to talk to Petraeus just last week, during his confirmation hearing. Probably Obama will mention that today.

    But back to the main subject: If withdrawl equals surrender. There is the inherent implication that the opposition forces (whoever they are) would actually defeat the Iraqi Army! So, for six years we have been training this group and yet they cannot resist the rag-tag terrorists. McCain is essentially saying that up ’til now we have failed completely.

  • John McCan’t doesn’t plan to run an honorable campaign against Barack Obama because he dispises Obama. Not hates, dispises.

    Because he does, he will willingly commit any outrage to prevent Obama from becoming President.

    In short, he will cheat and be glad to do so.

  • McCain can’t support his own take on the issues so all his campaign can do is attack Obama’s stands. McCain has no plans…he clearly doesn’t know what to do so makes it all about wishes and good luck. What kind of plan is “I’d just sit the Sunni and Shiites down and say Stop the bullshit”. He implies “or else” and it’s that “or else” that guarantees fighting in Iraq indefinitely, the extended Bush policy.

    “Surrender to who” is only matched by “win what?” We are not fighting a country but gangs and political factions which appears to be far beyond McCain’s comprehension. He tries to minimize the situation to remove the complications in order to rabble rouse. “We must defeat “them”, the terrorists, and must not surrender to “them”, the terrorists, in order to achieve victory”. Simply summed up in McCain’s mind as “Defeat…Terrorists…Victory” without a clue as to who “they” are, how to defeat “them”, or what Victory means.

    Whoever claimed McCain was a foreign policy expert must be the same one who claimed Sadam had WMDs and was connected to al qaeda and 9/11.

    McCain has already surrendered to the terrorists who want to keep us in the middle of the shooting gallery by claiming we can’t leave. Withdrawal means victory. We removed Sadam and the threat of WMDs. Now we are just interfering in Iraq trying to police their affairs till we get control of their oil which is all this was really about in the first place.

    McCain couldn’t even take memorial day off but instead used it as an opportunity to attack Obama. Now that’s the real McCain

  • “For him to talk about dates for withdrawal, which basically is surrender in Iraq […] — McCain

    WTF? Was I just dreaming when I heard him speak about January 2013 and the soldiers coming home? “Surrender” in ’09 is bad but, “gimme just a little more time and our love will surely grow”?

  • I can’t attest to the veracity of the report, but I read somewhere that Basra was actually benefitting from recent government operations there as now a rule to eliminate graft and bribes at the ports is being enforced.

  • So John McCain has stood in front of a crowd and vowed that he would “Never surrender in Iraq…NEVER!”

    Good for him. When you consider that a) there is no one to surrender to, even if we wanted to, and b) you cannot surrender from an occupation, its hard to understand what the hell he’s talking about.

    The amazing thing about pro-war supporters like McCain is how they are so wrapped up in the simplistic binary thought pattern of victory or defeat. The reality of Iraq is that it is neither.

    As is obvious to most of us here in the reality based world, the war in Iraq is a civil war between numerous factions within Iraqi society. Al Qaeda at best numbers several hundred fighters in a nation of 26 million. They are not, as the Republicans would have us believe, the main forces we are “fighting”. Far from it. Our troops are stuck in the middle of a civil war that has little to do with us, other than that our troops act as a convenient target for their frustrations, and as a great recruitment cause for Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

    John McCain shows that while he may have some tactical sense for how to engage the enemy (though how tactical a guy whose military effort was little more than dropping bombs on people from 30,000ft can be is questionable), he completely lacks a strategic sense of how our nation’s efforts have hurt us.

    McCain would have us think, like GWB, that to leave Iraq would be surrender to the terrorists, that Al Qaeda would crow and brag about how they defeated the mighty USA in Iraq. Well, let them, because what Bush/McCain don’t realize (or won’t acknowledge) is that Obama’s strategy is not merely to leave Iraq for the sake of leaving, but to pivot our forces against the real enemy: Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan. Osama bin Laden may crow, but not for long as Obama goes after him with a vengeance.

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