Obama will ‘continue to refine’ Iraq policy

Barack Obama’s comments on Iraq in Fargo, N.D., are drawing quite a bit of attention, but if the news accounts are an accurate reflection of what he said, I’m not sure if there’s anything especially unusual about his remarks.

Senator Barack Obama said Thursday the United States cannot sustain a long-term military presence in Iraq, but added that he would be open to “refine my policies” about a timeline for withdrawing troops after meeting with American military commanders during a trip to Iraq later this month.

Mr. Obama, whose popularity in the Democratic primary was built upon a sharp opposition to the war and an often-touted 16-month gradual timetable for removing combat troops, dismissed suggestions that he was changing positions in the wake of reductions in violence in Iraq and a general election fight with Senator John McCain.

“I’ve always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed,” he said. “And when I go to Iraq and have a chance to talk to some of the commanders on the ground, I’m sure I’ll have more information and will continue to refine my policies.”

As he arrived for a campaign stop in North Dakota, Mr. Obama told reporters on Thursday that he intended to conduct “a thorough assessment” of his Iraq policy during a forthcoming trip to the country.

“My 16-month timeline, if you examine everything that I’ve said, was always premised on making sure that our troops were safe,” he said. “I said that based on the information that we had received from our commanders that one to two brigades a month could be pulled out safely, from a logistical perspective. My guiding approach continues to be that we’ve got to make sure that our troops are safe and that Iraq is stable.”

Some are interpreting these comments as either a reversal or evidence of a looming reversal. I don’t see it that way at all. In fact, if you’d told me that these exact same remarks came from Obama in February, I’d believe you.

As the Democratic primary process unfolded, the Clinton campaign tried to get out in front of this issue by saying that she was committed to her withdrawal plan — no matter what. When Clinton’s communications director was pressed on whether Clinton would proceed with a withdrawal regardless of conditions on the ground, he said, “Yes.”

Obama was never actually willing to go there, and as far as I can tell, has always given himself some flexibility on troop withdrawal. Here’s a report from four months ago:

Susan Rice, foreign policy adviser to Sen. Barack Obama, told reporters a short time ago during another conference call that it is “striking” if Clinton’s troop withdrawal plan would not be subject to some judgment about conditions at the time. Obama, Rice said, is committed to withdrawing “one to two brigades a month,” but also to going slower if that pace would threaten the safety of U.S. personnel.

That, in a nutshell, is what Obama said today, too. In fact, as far back as March, Samantha Power argued that the next president would have to consider conditions on the ground when implementing a withdrawal plan. Indeed, I’ve lost count of how many times I’ve heard Obama say that he wants to be as careful getting out as Bush was reckless in going in.

In terms of “refining” his policy, that, too, is consistent with Obama’s general approach — he crafted a withdrawal policy nearly two years ago. Of course it’s going to be refined based on changing conditions.

With that in mind, Greg Sargent raises a good point about the context:

These strike me as less a signal of a coming change in his position on withdrawal and more like a combined effort to defuse the charge that he’ll withdraw recklessly and to preserve flexibility as commander in chief.

Quite right. The McCain campaign wants desperately to argue that Obama supports an immediate, “precipitous” withdrawal, that would disregard conditions and/or the wishes of commanders. Given this, Obama’s point is pretty straightforward — he wants to give the Pentagon a new mission (getting out safely), based on a flexible timetable. Nothing he said today changes that formulation at all. I understand concerns about Obama “moving to the middle,” but his remarks in Fargo aren’t evidence of a shift.

I should note that Obama’s position, of course, stands in stark contrast to the McCain Iraq policy, which is effectively, “Keep doing what we’ve been doing, hope the war eventually ends, and then hope Iraq won’t mind if we stick around for a generation or five.”

Yes. But if “stability” is a prerequisite for withdrawal, we can forget it. Saddam had it “stable,” but he’s dead of course.

  • A new kind of politics—-yeah right.

    I’ll vote against McCain with an X next to Obama, but this guy is nothing new-it;’s just more Clinton style triangulation.

  • Well Haik, I think “stability” will be a relative term. I would be all in favor of declaring the recent lull in violence “stability” if it let us get the hell out.

    There is no way Obama declares Iraq a lost war and labels his withdrawal a retreat. He will certainly claim it to be a responsible withdrawal that leaves Iraq capable of fending for itself, etc.

  • It wouldn’t hurt for Obama to add that the past seven years have taught us that we can’t believe a damn thing the Bush administration says about anything. So Obama’s actual timetable for withdrawal from Iraq may have to be adjusted if, once he is actually president, he discovers that conditions in Iraq are different from what the Bush has told Congress.

  • Obama is making it harder for McCain to smear him as being irresponsible on withdrawing from Iraq. The hyperventilating you hear in the media is due mostly to this being the slowest week for news of the year, with the exception of the week between Christmas and New Years.

  • I think the left needs to stress the meme, “Iraq Occupation” instead of letting the “Iraq War” meme to continue to be used and defined by the Republicans.

    – Mission Accomplished in 2003, just like Bush said.
    – Iraq has had successful elections. Budding Democracy.
    – We’re only in it for the oil now, as evidenced by the no bid contracts for only U.S. oil companies
    – This needs to be hit harder then the FISA issue that’s been buzzing lately.

  • It wasn’t that you didn’t need to be in Irak to make an educated decision?

  • Obama never said ‘stability’ he said ‘troop safety’ there is a difference.

    He doesn’t want to be in a position like Vietnam (remember the airlifts off the US embassy). Virtually all military commanders will acknowledge, troops are at their most vulnerable when they are retreating.

    Bushco has built up an enormous ifrastructure in Iraq over the past five years (take a long look at our ‘temporary’ bases, they’re more fortified than some of our cold war bases in Germany). Not to mention all the equipment, supplies and personnel. One can not simply pull the plug overnight. Tanks, aircraft, hummers, transports take time to move and are vulnerable when they move. Even moving 150k personnel takes time.

    Yes one could get most of the PEOPLE out in a couple of months, but I really don’t think any one here is interested in leaving a ton of mordern US combat gear and equipment behind in Iraq.

  • McCain will continue to smear Obama as being irresponsible on Iraq, because McCain doesn’t give a rat’s backside about the truth. He didn’t ever in the past, and he won’t ever in the future. That’s McCain’s character, pure and simple.

  • Obama never said ’stability’ he said ‘troop safety’ there is a difference. -thorin-1 at #8

    “I’ve always said that the pace of withdrawal would be dictated by the safety and security of our troops and the need to maintain stability. That assessment has not changed,” -BHO [Emphasis added.]

    I don’t know how you “maintain” something that doesn’t exist, but he definitely said “stability.”

  • People listened to what Obama said but heard what they wished would happen — immediate withdrawal. Clearly that isn’t going to happen with either candidate. Few of the other Democratic nominees promised it, but several were less equivocal than Obama. The only important thing was that he said he wouldn’t have voted to let Bush go into Iraq in the first place. How much does that matter now?

  • Some see this election as a referendum on Bush’s policies, on race relations in America, or on the Republican brand.

    Me, I see it as a referendum on whether America is ready for a President who is rational and reasonable. So far, it looks like both the left and right prefer politicians who have a word-of-God approach to policy and who claim that they will never, ever listen to advice or adjust their policies based on the way actual reality unfolds.

    Fact is, I don’t think we’re ready for that. Both the left and the right seem more obsessed with checkbox answers and ideological purity, and less concerned with facts and reality, than ever. That could spell bad news for Obama.

  • I’m afraid there is going to be a significant troop presence indefinitely. How else do we ensure that once the oil sharing agreement/long term security agreement/stepped up oil production comes on line, that all runs smoothly? I don’t think Exxon et al are going to be satisfied with Iraqi troops maintaining security, and they’re calling the shots.

    We keep forgetting the oil factor. It’s just astonishing.

  • Yes one could get most of the PEOPLE out in a couple of months, but I really don’t think any one here is interested in leaving a ton of modern US combat gear and equipment behind in Iraq. — thorin-1, @8

    A lot of that equipment might not be of earthly use to us, stateside; who are they going to use it on, here? And, besides… After a spell in Iraq, most of that equipment will be in the NBG (no bloody good) category; we might as well leave it there — as a gift to the Iraqi forces — instead of trying to lug it home.

  • This refinement, in as much as I can remember, has mostly been a reaction to the press asking Hon. Sen. Obama whether he would stick to his plan ‘no matter what happened on the ground.’ There is just no way to answer that question and sound halfway sane unless you concede that there might exist conditions that would alter the expected timeline. Any other answer would be asking for a myriad of increasingly horrific (and most probably decreasing likely) hypothetical scenario questions.

  • I think Haik @ 13 is right. Bush and the real power brokers have created a situation that makes it impossible to get out completely for a very long time. The best I think anyone can do is withdraw the majority of our troops and hunker down the rest in those bases that aren’t permanent but whose leases have no end date. It’s big oil’s way of getting the US taxpayer to foot the bill for their private security forces.

    It’s easy to forget (or maybe too depressing to remember) how deeply fascist elements are embedded in America. They may have been around for a long time, but the inroads they’ve made in the last 7 years will be Bush’s ultimate legacy. We can hope for someone to come along an rout those elements, but the best we can really expect is to nudge them a bit and, perhaps with continuing public dissent, in time reduce their influence. But they’re going to fight tooth and nail every step of the way; not only do they not want to lose ground, they intend to gain it.

    The game is already set, and anyone who wants to change the game first has to get in it. I hope that’s what we’ve been seeing in Obama lately.

    Brooks @ 12 wrote that he sees the current election as a referendum on whether America is ready for a President who is rational and reasonable.” I agree completely, but let’s remember that rationality and reason are enemies of the authoritarian state. For all the lip service we give to critical thinking and analytical skills in education, they undermine propaganda and make the masses more difficult to control.

    Where am I going with this? I don’t know but I better stop before I freak myself out.

    (Hope all you NSA guys have a nice holiday).

  • Regardless of what he actually meant, and the near term accusations about reversing policy (which he clearly is not doing), this is a positive in the overall election landscape. Media attention on Iraq policy is a win for Obama. This will force contrast to McCain’s Iraq stance, which we all know, polls show Americans don’t agree with. Obama needs to keep it an issue front and center any way he can.

  • Beep @16,

    Indeed. The troops aren’t going ANYWHERE until Americans give the auto industry the finger, and either convert entirely to mass transit (will never happen) or a fuel cell for a POV is marketed here at affordable prices . (I’m talking to you, BMW, you guys with hydrogen fueling stations in Munich SINCE 1999.) If you want a truly terrifying history of oil and U.S. politics, particularly the House of Bush, read “American Theocracy: the Peril and Politics of Radical Religion, Oil, and Borrowed Money In the 21st Century” by former Republican bigwig Kevin Phillips. He predicted the rise of the religious right, and its effect on America. Now he’s outlined the deep entrenchment of the West, particularly America, in the Middle East, particularly Iraq, on the quest for oil.

    Someone brought up the 14 Points of Fascism in another thread. I’d never heard of such a paper, so I used a Google on those intertubes to look for it. Wow. From the Liberty Forum:

    Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

    1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism – Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

    2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights – Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of “need.” The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

    3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause – The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

    4. Supremacy of the Military – Even when there are widespread
    domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

    5. Rampant Sexism – The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homosexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution.

    6. Controlled Mass Media – Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

    7. Obsession with National Security – Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

    8. Religion and Government are Intertwined – Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government’s policies or actions.

    9. Corporate Power is Protected – The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

    10. Labor Power is Suppressed – Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

    11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts – Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked.

    12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment – Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption – Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

    14. Fraudulent Elections – Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

  • Well it was fun watching MSNBC this afternoon. Joe Scarboro summed it up: it isn’t a change in position, just a change in the interpretation of the English language. For Joe & Co., Obama has flip-flopped because he used the same words at different times.

    But Obama has done a poor job in explaining the different part of his position:

    1. Get out ASAP. (This is a strategic decision.) The maximum rate is 1-2 brigades per month. Somehow this adds up to about 16 months.
    2. Get out carefully. (This is a tactical requirement on the strategy.) Obviously Obama doesn’t need to get bogged down in the details, but if the focus is on leaving, the only consideration is doing so safely, not using conditions as an excuse to stay, but as something which will add to the time required. Note that the Bush admin is refusing to offer, not a time-line for withdrawal, but a date to start leaving.
    3. Make sure that the strategy drives the tactics and tactics support the strategy. Failed tactics are okay, a failed strategy isn’t. But if you have no strategy, you have nothing by which to judge the tactics.
    4. Strategy is up to the president. ‘Winning’ is not a strategy, but not losing too much might be.

  • Keori @ 18: Pretty interesting to run down that list and see how far along we are, isn’t it? (I wonder why Britt didn’t include something along the lines of removing checks and balances).

    On the other hand, when one thinks how much worse it could get, it becomes clear why we cannot afford 4 years of McCain. I thought 2000 was the most important election in my lifetime. Said the seme thing in 2004. Looking back, I think they were — up until this one.

  • Beep,

    Jonah Goldberg can firmly plant his lips alongside the underside of my derriere. His swill is an insult to all thinking people in this country. One only need see the signs, and ponder a few minutes.

    And yes, it could get much worse. If the FBI trolling-racial-profiling-for-cases becomes law, I give it a matter of months before we see Manzanar’s cousins being built. Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeate it, and all that. FWIW, I’ve done work with FBI counterterrorism agents. I had the privilege of working with good, honest people who will no doubt be shocked and disgusted at the idea of simply investigating someone based on the color of their skin or their house of worship rather than for probable cause.

  • (I wonder why Britt didn’t include something along the lines of removing checks and balances). — beep 52, @20

    ’cause he was talking about regimes which never started their trip to fascism from the checks-and-balances position *we* took off from:

    Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes

    I can’t say that I’m all that familiar with all — or even any — of the above (though, as I remember it, Franco deposed a king to take over Spain), but I’m pretty sure that none of them had 3 *equivalent* branches, the way we do.

  • As furiously angry as I’ve been with Obama over the FISA matter, I have no problem with his position on Iraq. Much as we would all love to do so, we cannot just suddenly down tools and leave Iraq. Withdrawal will have to be done very cautiously and thoughtfully and probably cannot be total for the foreseeable future.

  • I can assure you of this. Obama said 16 months for removal. It may be 17 months or even 18 months. Maybe even 2 years. But it won’t be 100! Obama said we are coming out of Iraq and I believe he will make that the first thing on his agenda. Without removal we are stagnant because we need the funds being sent there. He never believed in going to Iraq so no matter what, he is going to relieve us of the burden that is Iraq. He said just yesterday that the Iraqi people should be taught to fend for themselves. Why isn’t anyone questioning Bush about that? Why aren’t his military advisors teaching these people to handle their situation? I want an answer to that question. After 7 years they should be top-notch soldiers, able to leap tall buildings with a single bound, as it were. We can’t be babysitters for 100 years. From what I know about babysitting, every babysitter grows up and moves on!

  • What an amazing collection of lame excuses for Obama I have read on this site! The undeniable fact is that he has been sailing for much too long under the faux flag of the anti-war candidate when in reality, judging from his earlier published interviews with the Chicago Tribune and earlier speeches at AIPAC, he is a saber-rattling imperialist and colonial Vice-Roy pur sang when it comes to the Middle East (“we” have lots of interests there; “the Iraqis must do this, must do that….”), Iran (everything, including a nuclear attack must remain on the table), and Southeast Asia (more troops to Afghanistan, if needed invade Pakistan to get the Taliban and Bin Laden).

  • For those arguing that Obama can adjust his timeline based on the fact that we have built up a heavy infrastructure and it will take longer than 16 months to now pull out – what has changed since he made that pledge? The amount of infrastructure and bases has not increased since then, overall if anything it has decreased as we have handed over control of 14 provinces and many bases to the Iraqis. Presumably he had talked to his advisers who said 16 months was a doable, even cautious timeframe (which he has said).

    Why does he all of a sudden think a one day trip to Iraq, where he can listen to the commanders on the ground is going to change his policy? If that is all it takes, he could have been advised of that when they were here, he could have made more trips to the region in the meantime, he could have called them up and gotten briefings – which they have been giving to both parties for years.

    His problem is that every time he says he wants to state it clearly – he doesn’t. His advisers leak that he might “revise” or be “flexible”, people get up in arms and he goes back to his pledge, but then sometimes he is firm on that and sometimes he leaves himself wiggle room. At the end of the day, you don’t really have a clue where he stands.

    For the record, from his website:

    Obama will immediately begin to remove our troops from Iraq. He will remove one to two combat brigades each month, and have all of our combat brigades out of Iraq within 16 months. Obama will make it clear that we will not build any permanent bases in Iraq. He will keep some troops in Iraq to protect our embassy and diplomats; if al Qaeda attempts to build a base within Iraq, he will keep troops in Iraq or elsewhere in the region to carry out targeted strikes on al Qaeda.

    (hmm, I don’t think al Qaeda has built any bases yet in Iraq, so this leaves him the opening to pull troops even if al Qaeda did manage to rebuild their strength and continue attacks)

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