Lieberman’s unusual take on ‘the facts’

Yglesias noted this afternoon that Joe Lieberman is “probably beyond shark-jumping at this point.” That’s no doubt true. (For me, Lieberman’s point of no return came in 2004, when he questioned the U.S. apology for Abu Ghraib torture because, “[T]hose who were responsible for killing 3,000 Americans on September 11th, 2001, never apologized.”)

But the Connecticut senator continues to push the embarrassment envelope at every available opportunity. This morning, for example, Lieberman, after praising Gen. David Petraeus and Amb. Ryan Crocker, seemed utterly dumfounded by the fact that some senators are displeased by conditions in Iraq.

There’s a lot to digest here, but this was the quote that stood out for me: “Hey, let’s be honest about this: The Iraqi political leadership has achieved a lot more political reconciliation and progress since September than the American political leadership has. So we’ve got to give credit for that.”

This is just so wrong, it’s hard to know where to start. The obvious problem, of course, is with reality. Political reconciliation in Iraq hasn’t occurred. Perhaps Lieberman missed this report from the weekend: “A new assessment of U.S. policy in Iraq by the same experts who advised the original Iraq Study Group concludes that political progress is ‘so slow, halting and superficial’ and political fragmentation ‘so pronounced’ that the United States is no closer to being able to leave Iraq than it was a year ago.”

But it’s also worth noting that the comparison between Iraq and the United States is itself foolish to the point of humiliation.

As Yglesias put it:

To state the obvious, America has a heated political debate, but liberals and conservatives aren’t shooting mortars at each other and we don’t have pitched battles in the streets. To compare the situation in Iraq to the persistence of strong partisan disagreement in the United States is idiotic.

Quite right. For a U.S. senator to compare Iraqi officials to Americans, and insist that Iraqis are somehow more impressive, is kind of offensive, in addition to being wrong.

Indeed, I’ve noticed that this comes up from time to time in conservative circles. If Iraq’s parliament passes a budget, the right says, “See? Iraqi politicians are more efficient than American politicians.” If Iraq passes a piece of noteworthy legislation, the right says, “See? Iraqi politicians can work together better than American politicians.”

I can’t really relate to the worldview of those who support the status quo in Iraq and want it to continue indefinitely, but I really have trouble relating to U.S. political figures who compare Iraqis to Americans, and believe we should be more like them.

For what it’s worth, here’s an excerpted transcript of the clip above:

“General and Ambassador, thank you for your extraordinary service in the cause of freedom in Iraq.

“I must say that, as I listen to your testimony, which is encouraging and yet quite realistic, and in my opinion, not overstated — you’ve told us that the strategy associated with the surge is working, progress has been made, but it’s entirely reversible. You’ve been very frank about some of the problems that we still face.

“What I’m about to say, with respect to my colleagues who have consistently opposed our presence in Iraq, as I hear the questions and the statements today, it seems to me that there’s a kind of hear no progress in Iraq, see no progress in Iraq, and most of all, speak of no progress in Iraq.

“The fact is, there has been progress in Iraq, thanks to extraordinary effort by the two of you and all those who serve under you on our behalf.

“I wish we could come to a point where we could have an agreement on the facts that you are presenting to us, the charts you’ve shown, the military progress, the extraordinary drop in ethno-sectarian violence, the drop in civilian deaths, the drop in American deaths, and the very impressive political progress in Iraq since last September.

“Hey, let’s be honest about this: The Iraqi political leadership has achieved a lot more political reconciliation and progress since September than the American political leadership has. So we’ve got to give credit for that.

“I repeat, I wish we could have an agreement on the facts which you presented. You work for us. I don’t distrust those facts.

“And I wish we could go from an agreement on those facts to figure out how we can move to more success so we can bring more of our troops home. That’s apparently not going to happen in the near future.”

Well the Iraqi leaders might be more in touch with reality than the Republicans here at home.

  • Lieberman, McCain, Graham – Hear no problem, see no problem, speak no problem.

    The US Senate could be as efficient as the Iraqi parliament, if these three and a few others would pick up their toys and go home, the way the Iraqis have.

  • Imagine the noise from the right if a Democrat had compared Iraq favorably to America.

  • Hey, Dan #2, lemme fix that for ya:

    Lieberman, McCain, Graham – Hear no problem, see no problem, there is no problem.

    There ya go. 😀

  • “And I wish we could go from an agreement on those facts to figure out how we can move to more success so we can bring more of our troops home. That’s apparently not going to happen in the near future.”

    Got that??? Apparently we’re the reason the troops can’t come home “in the near future”.

    According to Holy Joe, because Democrats don’t agree with the “facts” asserted by people who have been completely wrong about everything, we won’t have more “success” and therefore we won’t be able to bring the troops home.

    The man is on some kind of mutant hybrid crack. I wish Connecticut could recall his stupid ass and put him on display in a cage somewhere, with the caption: “Be Careful Who You Elect”

  • While still the most (unlikely) powerful man in the Senate, Joe Schmuck can, for the time being, get away with saying anything he wants with impunity. The Dems won’t call him on it very hard, or censure him for being a total idiot. I long for the day when he’s unwelcome in both camps, which is hopefully not far away. If Connecticut were smart he would be recalled.

  • Here’s the question for the day: What does Joe Lieberman see when he stares into the mirror? -Kevo

  • Apparently the Iraqi’s have amassed $30 billion dollars in the bank because of ‘the surge.” It is time to pull out so America can refill it’s own coffers to take care of Americans. Why should America bank roll a country that has so much money and is able to amass some more. The Iraqi war is illegal after 12.31.08. Time ffor Americans to leave and let Iraqi’s spend ther own money rather that ours. Let the Iraqi’s pay for Blackwater. protectioon. America needs to save money for our own infrastructure repairs.

  • Apparently just flirting with craziness is not enough for Jerusalem Joe, and he feels the need to get right on the floor and roll in it. He seems to have some sort of martyr complex, whereby he cannot be part of a group without publicly acknowledging its failures, and publicly wishing it were more like Group X.

    It therefore looks like the only way to make him acknowledge the true nature of Iraq’s predicament is to put him in charge of it. Then, if he follows the relentless arc of his apparent descent into madness, he’ll report that things in Iraq have started to markedly suck, and that Iraq should behave more like Syria.

  • “[T]hose who were responsible for killing 3,000 Americans on September 11th, 2001, never apologized.”)
    Above all else this one statement shows the stupidity of Joe Lieberman. It had nothing what so ever to do with anything. Joe likes hearing the sound of his own voice and consistently thinks he is saying something profound. It’s pathetic that any respect should be shown such an idiot. He doesn’t even make since and yet the generals sit staring at him in silence (wish I could hear their mind thoughts while Joe speaks) wondering just what in the hell he’s talking about. I wish we could have a consensus on the facts??? WTF does that mean and why say it? I long for the day when someone with courage and insight tells joe to STFU because he doesn’t even know what he is saying or talking about. He could be McCain’s real brother instead of just playing one on TV. Cameras point to this idiot and people are quiet while he speaks…it is such an embarrassment. He is so out of touch with America and doesn’t even know it. If he didn’t have money, no one would even speak to him.

  • Those would be the same “facts” that they paraded around before the war that we know now to be incorrect?

  • Speaking of Iraq’s political structure, shouldn’t they be due to have another purple-fingered accountability moment one of these days? It’s been a while since the last elections and maybe the key to turning Iraq around, since the country has undergone the ethnic cleansing version of gerrymandering, would be enough to put new leaders and in power and force new coalition building to form a government. Maliki and his corrupt cronies have to get out of power. That would be one step toward improvement in that nation.

  • I don’t know, maybe the Repubs are a bit like a faction in Iraq. After all, they do have their own damned army, Blackwater.

  • What does Joe Lieberman see when he stares into the mirror? -Kevo

    I’m fairly certain he sees a slightly balding, soulless apparition who bares a more than passing resemblence to the puppet Howdy Doody…

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