This Week in God

August 16, 2008

First up from the God machine this week is good news from some popular end-times authors — they don’t like Barack Obama, but they’re pretty sure he’s not literally the antichrist. (via Ron Chusid)

John McCain’s campaign ad “The One” has generated a lot of buzz regarding the “Left Behind Series.” Political commentators are comparing McCain’s portrayal of competitor Barack Obama with the blockbuster apocalyptic series’ depiction of the antichrist. But even the series authors Tim LaHaye and Jerry B. Jenkins don’t think Obama is the antichrist. What may have been created as a farce has generated a firestorm of controversy on the internet.

LaHaye and Jenkins take a literal interpretation of prophecies found in the Book of Revelation. They believe the antichrist will surface on the world stage at some point, but neither see Obama in that role. “I’ve gotten a lot of questions the last few weeks asking if Obama is the antichrist,” says novelist Jenkins. “I tell everyone that I don’t think the antichrist will come out of politics, especially American politics.”

“I can see by the language he uses why people think he could be the antichrist,” adds LaHaye, “but from my reading of scripture, he doesn’t meet the criteria. There is no indication in the Bible that the antichrist will be an American.”

First, I guess this is good news. A lot of strange folks really do consider LaHaye and Jenkins “authorities” on Biblical end-times prophecies, so if they announce Obama’s in the clear, those who take this seriously may very well believe them.

Second, it’s probably worth noting that you know for sure that politics in America has become deeply, painfully bizarre when a fair number of people actually debate whether a presidential candidate is the antichrist.

Other items from The God Machine this week:

* A poll released this week by the Barna Group shows Obama faring well “among 18 self-identified faith groups including Protestants, Catholics, non-Christians, atheists and agnostics and born-again Christians. McCain leads among evangelicals.”

* Remember John Freshwater, the Ohio science teacher accused of branding students with crosses? The story continues to percolate along.

* The “Pray at the Pump” group believes the recent decline in the price of gas is evidence of divine intervention and proof that the group’s efforts are working. No, they’re not kidding.

* And congratulations to the Rev. Dan Schultz, who was condemned this week by radical televangelist, and John McCain ally, Rod Parsley. If Parsley’s on the attack against you

2pharmaceuticals.com

, you must be on the right track, right Pastor Dan?

Ok, someone help me out. What is an evangelical? I thought it was someone who “put out the word” (or some such) but spanned several flavors of Christianity.

Did you know that Corp. America now has a job title of Product Evangelical? I received an invite to a webinar (which I was interested in) and there was this guy who was the speaker. I wrote the host company a letter advising them that I was interested until I saw his job title. I quoted the definition of evangelical from the dictionary (which included “fanatic”) and said I have no interest in having contact with any fanatic – especially in my professional life.

What happened to “Product Manager”? And what was this company thinking?

  • @1 What happened to “Product Manager”? And what was this company thinking?

    When you have God/relilgion/fanatical belief on your side and your on the “right” side of the angels, who’s to say you can’t make up your own rules/titles/reality? Why conform to the outside when you only want to hire from within your own community anyways.

  • @1

    Ok, someone help me out. What is an evangelical? I thought it was someone who “put out the word” (or some such) but spanned several flavors of Christianity.

    There have been several Evangelical movements in American history. Evangelical movements tend to come in waves through the idea of “revival”. I don’t quite understand what sets off a revival every several decades. The basic definition of an Evangelical is just that, a devout person of faith that speaks out to spread the word. That’s the academic definition. But reality always goes beyond a bland definition. In reality, Evangelicals have historically been the types to stir the pot. Typically by using reactionary scare tactics to change people’s social behaviors. Fire and Brim Stone Sermons in New England during the 1700s caused panic in many towns.

    I quoted the definition of evangelical from the dictionary (which included “fanatic”) and said I have no interest in having contact with any fanatic – especially in my professional life.

    To be fair, if you parse out the word fanatic, there is nothing really negative about the word. Here’s another bland definition: “a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.” It’s okay to have zeal and be really excited about something. It’s just not okay to go into a church and shoot up a bunch of people because God told you to. Usually we dub that type of person a “fantatic”. In reality, they’re just a mass murderer. A true religious fanatic would not commit murder. It’s you know, one of the ten commandments. That pretty much goes against the whole word of God perspective. So really, socoeity has given the word fanatic a bad connotation.

  • Ok, someone help me out. What is an evangelical?

    Lets try this definition…

    It is a simple religious competition. The new “Born Again “which have been out of the womb for who knows how long, obviously are convinced that going in to war with Iraq and serving four or five tours is not only patriotic, but morally the right thing to do. Even though it likely destroys a marriage, a life, or permanently places one at risk of disability mental or physical liability to society for the rest of their life.

    For me, there is a huge misconception here, evangelist pounding away about where is conception yet parade around way after conception, born again, to condemn anyone who fools around with conception. Talk about hind sight hypocrisy, a loaded double standard all under a tent that can fold quickly and run for cover. The real kicker is when one rallies to support the Constitution about freedom of Religion but totally avoids the fourteenth Amendment in personal privacy.

    This is twenty six percent of America I think that papa Bush once recognized as dysfunctional and easy to dupe.

  • Mick @#3 gives a good definition of Evangelical. Most Evangelicals marched in lockstep with the Fundamentalist movement until a few years ago. The demarcation appears to have come when the Southern Baptist Church split off from the main Baptist boday, which includes non-fundamentalists and several African-American churches, and became even crazier than it already was. This provoked a reaction from some Evangelicals, understandably leery of being seen in the nutty light of the SBC. The National Association of Evangelicals elected a new President and Board who committed the heresy of moving away from the three fundamentalist legs of Abortion, Gays and a literal Bible, and now champion environmentalism and recognize the dangers of global warming and the need to serve God by being stewards of the Earth. While most are still socially conservative, this is half a universe away from the situation of a few years ago. Interesting times, and not necessarily the End Times at all.

  • “I can see by the language he uses why people think he could be the antichrist,” adds LaHaye…“

    That’s a nice little dig that LaHaye got in on Obama there. But not to worry – the people who will think Obama is the antichrist already won’t vote for him because he’s a Muslim.
    .
    .
    I can’t add much to the discussion about what an “evangelical” is, except to say that today the word means so many different things to so many different people that it no longer has any worthwhile meaning at all.

    Originally, the adjective “evangelical” referred to Christians who thought it their mission to spread the “good news” of the Christian gospel, as opposed to those who preferred to mind their own business. But those people are all over the map politically and shouldn’t be arbitrarily grouped together. They aren’t all acolytes of Pat Robertson.

  • I consider evangelicals those who believe in the inerrancy of the bible.

    For me, there is a huge misconception here, evangelist pounding away about where is conception yet parade around way after conception, born again, to condemn anyone who fools around with conception.

    Mego, that’s one funny-ass sentence there. 🙂

  • Given what a complete asshat LaHaye is, I still can’t get over how “you don’t actually have a brain, do you?” kind of stupid this quote is.

    “There is no indication in the Bible that the antichrist will be an American.”

    So, is LaHaye under the impression that there was an America in Biblical times? Or is this of the same people-riding-dinosaurs view of history that is so common to this segment of the population?

    Ugh, my brain hurts…

  • It should also be noted that American evangelicals are a ‘sub-species’ of the evangelical movement and are considered as absurd by European evangelicals as by us. (Perhaps the most intelligent, well-read — and wittiest — writer on religion from a Christian perspective is the self-styled ‘evangelical’, Chris Tilling, and he regularly shows the absurditity of the ‘fundies’ — his word — on his blog, Chrisendom http://www.christilling.de/blog/ctblog.html )

    The popularization of the ‘end times’ narrative by (the ex-recruiter for the John Birch Society) Tim LeHaye obscures the fact that ‘the Rapture’ is not ‘traditional Christianity’ but was spun out of one-half of one verse in one of the Pauline Epistles bu the ‘renegade Anglican’ George Darby, who founded the dourest and most unpleasant of all Christian groups, the Plymouth Brethren. (Readers of the Sara Woods detective stories will have seen them — under a different name — and just how awful they are.)

    Most non-American evangelicals consider The Rapture one of the dumbest of all American religious beliefs, and know it was, pre-LeHaye, accepted by merely a handful of even American Protestants.

    Actually, many evangelicals, even in America, are reachable — if people bother to try — on the grounds that Christianity does not mean quoting the Republican platform, but that it does have many good aspects. Like their champion, Mike Huckabee, they do remember — or can be reminded — that Christ spoke for and too the poor and spoke of charity and concern for others, not the selfishness of the ‘Gospel of Wealth.’

  • Did you know that Corp. America now has a job title of Product Evangelical?

    More likely, Product Evangelist. The idea is the same, though. This person “evangelizes” for the product in question.

    I’m an evangelical Christian, at least by most workable definitions. This article talks about some of those competing definitions.

    I’d like to think that I’ve avoided most of the cultural baggage that most evangelicals seem to carry — e.g., “The new “Born Again “which have been out of the womb for who knows how long, obviously are convinced that going in to war with Iraq and serving four or five tours is not only patriotic, but morally the right thing to do.” It’s certainly an honorable decision by those who choose to serve in the military, but we as a society have let the military down by failing to choose leaders who are equally selfless.

    Anyway, especially among those 35 and younger, I think you’ll find there are a growing number of evangelicals who are pretty disgusted at the Religious Right and its attempts the theocratize the US.

  • EOC:
    Check out Chris Tilling’s blog, mentioned above, or Dr. Jim West (the ‘mock war’ between Chris and Jim is hilarious) or “Bible and Theology” or several of the blogs they link to to see that you are indeed not alone, and to see some serious, heavy-hitting theology that even someone like me — an atheist for over 45 years — can respect and find interesting, if not credible.

  • Thank God we have experts on the anti-Jebus! You see, this is another good think about lion’s dens. Then I see this “The Faith of Barack Obama” ad and I have to shudder. I guess I have elves, ghosts, Zues, sprites, fairies and all manner of things to keep company with; they just don’t generate as much revenue as the current bullshit does. E-gads, avant shades, begone!

  • I said that I’d discuss the forum in this thread, but now there is a thread devoted to it, I’ll comment there, and just beg you all “PLEASE get your friends, particularly your Republican and RR friends to watch this.” It will be maybe the most devastating event of the campaign, and after it sinks in, I’m pretty sure no one will be worried about how close the race is.

  • i wonder how the evangelists justify their non-profit status when they partake in politics?
    The little non-profits not connected to the elite in government and churches aren’t allowed to do it. i wonder what the advertising take will be for the church sponsoring the event to take place? This all makes me very cynical about the hypocracy in this country and the two candidates are pandering and sucking it up for a few votes.

  • Antichrists are surely ten-a-penny, if you look around.
    What is the Antichrist when it’s at home? According to Wikipedia: “Paul writes that this Man of Sin (sometimes translated son of perdition) will possess a number of characteristics. These include “sitting in the temple”, opposing himself against anything that is worshiped, claiming divine authority, working all kinds of counterfeit miracles and signs, and doing all kinds of evil.” Well, without naming names, I know who jumps fair and square into that definition for me. Apparently, also, there are lots of little antichrists hopping around. Not hard to imagine.
    According to John: “antichrists deny “that Jesus is the Christ”, “the Father and the Son”, and would “not confess Jesus came in the flesh.” So, about four-fifths of the world population, who are non-Christian, must also be antichrists. I guess for end-time believers this must look pretty bleak.
    Frankly, it’s beyond me how anyone can be bothered with such self-evident rubbish. Perhaps it bestows a feeling of power and righteousness to assume the divine authority of pointing one’s grubby little finger at any unsuspecting object of hate (except at oneself, of course). How ridiculously convenient, if you’re so gullible.

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