The mark of the beast

As far as I can tell, there are reasonable arguments against the REAL ID Act stemming from likely invasions of privacy. But some small-government activists, anxious to defeat the legislation, have found that they can broaden their coalition by reaching out to religious groups with, well, unusual concerns about the bill.

Critics of federal legislation to establish nationwide identification standards are tapping into religious groups to galvanize resistance to the statute.

The authors of a New Hampshire bill to make the Granite State the first to reject the so-called REAL ID Act have cited financial and constitutional concerns about its implementation. But several conservative Christian groups that have endorsed the New Hampshire proposal are largely motivated by their belief that the law is a sign of the apocalypse.

According to leaders of the movement against the statute, the cause has benefited immensely from the active participation of groups that view the law as the fulfillment of a biblical prophecy. Such groups refer to scripture that predicts that humans will be numbered by marks on their foreheads and hands before the arrival of the antichrist. (emphasis added)

Apparently, it’s quite sincere. States such as New Hampshire and West Virginia are working on state measures in opposition to the REAL ID Act and have found religious groups to be very helpful, in large part because they’re “highly mobile and well-organized.”

Irvin Baxter, the publisher of a religious magazine called Endtime, said he was specifically disappointed in President Bush for his support for national IDs. Baxter said he hoped Bush would be more sympathetic to Christian concerns about national IDs.

“I am stunned,” Baxter said. “He either skipped over that part of the Bible, or he completely misunderstood it.”

Another important fissure between the president and his religious-right base? Well, probably not.

So why is the religious right working against it? I thought the rapture was a good thing (for them, anyway).

  • I’m confused…some Christian groups (Evangelicals?) want the Apocalypse hastened because of the Rapture and others dont want anything that might hasten the Apocalypse?

  • It appears we have a real education gap in our country. Let me see if I understand this logic, or lack thereof: these freaks are such biblical literalists that they believe a certain series of specific, prophesied events will directly precede the Apocalypse like a falling line of dominos, and yet they can overlook literalism (“on the forehead and hands”) and substitute symbolic representations (an RFID card in one’s pocket) in the middle of their literalist fantasy? But will deny with to their last breath that perhaps the whole bible is symbolic and not amenable to literalism?

    Huh? They make my brain hurt.

  • Evangelicals are definitely literalists. Some more so than others in regards to “on the forehead and hands”. There is also definitely a rift between those evangelicals who want to hasten the apocalypse and those that would seek to prevent it.

    What I can’t understand, is that for those who view this bill as a “sign” of the coming apocalypse, why they then don’t view Bush as “the beast” and his puppeteer Cheney as “the whore of Babylon”.

  • Count me confused too. I think the issue is that mark of the beast is the Anti-Christ’s policy, which they don’t want to implement.

    Still, it is all a bit absurd, isn’t it? If we really want to get control of illegal immigration, we have to stop the hiring of illegals (or their use as ‘independent’ contractors). Without some form of universal and un-counterfitable identification, we will never succeed. Yet here again we have ‘conservatives’ opposing necessary policies to effectively defend our country.

    All this just proves my contention that the Republicanite party is an unnatural alliance of so-called ‘conservative’ groups who share in common only a hatred of the American Liberal/Moderate policies and culture of this country.

  • OK, this is funny.

    Why is the publisher of a magazine called Endtime so against this? He hope and prays for the Endtimes, even makes it his life’s work and suddenly he gets cold feet.

    Is it because the Rapture will put a huge dent in his subscription base, or is it that nagging feeling he’s been betting on the wrong horse the whole time? I say it’s the loss of paying subscribers.

  • I agree with Lance. The only thing these people have in common is a hatred of liberal culture (progress).

    The idiots who want to slow down the apocalypse should stop supporting Bush. He seems to be wanting to “bring it on”.

  • This is why I’m agnostic–there is only so much of this farce I can take before I laugh myself unconscious. Normally laughter is a good thing, except in this case I wake up with what feels like a hangover for some reason.

  • “I am stunned,” Baxter said.

    Me too, dude. This is right up there with legalized abortion causing our immigration “problems”. It says a lot that in Baxter’s world not equating this kind of ID and “the mark of the beast” is baffling. Well, maybe it only says he is delusional.

  • So what the hell (no pun intended) are Social Security numbers? Don’t they mark the coming of the Anti-Christ?

  • I’m glad I’m not the only one who finds the apparant contradiction startling. Evangelicals claim to be Christian and God-fearing, yet are only too happy to side with the anti-Christ in order to bring about Armageddon? (All arguments about the fallacy of causation aside.)

    Whiskey

    Tango

    Foxtrot?

  • On top of all the religious right’s silly notions noted above, maybe the craziest idea is that these people think their political activism and their chosen elected leaders will have any effect on these end of times fantasies. I’m sure God will forestall the rapture if they successfully oppose national ID card legislation.

    The Republican right feels it can tell God what to do now and they don’t even seem to see the heresy of their own ways.

  • “I’m sure God will forestall the rapture if they successfully oppose national ID card legislation.” – petorado

    As I understand it, the Rapture was supposed to happen at the death of the last disciple of Christ, John the Apostle. Seems to me that we are almost 2000 years late!

    I take great comfort from the thought that every Rapturist who has ever died has died wrong.

  • Sorry, folks, you’re just not getting it. Fundies believe that National ID cards are the first phase of the mark of the Beast. (The next and final is microchips implanted in the hands and forehead.) They are very afraid that a NID will be necessary to work, make major purchases, etc. But the world according to Fundies says that if you wear the mark of the Beast, you don’t go on the magic ride better known as the Rapture. So, National ID Card = No Magic Ride. Get it? So, it’s not that they don’t want the Rapture, they just don’t want to be too inconvenienced before hand.

    Now, I haven’t been inside a church since the Carter Administration but I’m sure the thinking hasn’t changed that much since. I remember them trying to scare us with the ID card thingy way back in the early seventies. Of course, then it was equated with a Communist Party card but times change.

  • “Fundies believe that National ID cards are the first phase of the mark of the Beast. (The next and final is microchips implanted in the hands and forehead.)” – SR

    Well, they had better start worrying about this administration and it’s push for a national medical identification system that holds your digitized medical files.

  • Oh, and you know the scariest thing about this: these are the people who are directing out middle east policy. I’m suprised that they haven’t gone ahead and nuked Israel themselves.

  • A perfect example of why the founding fathers insisted on separation of church and state. Any more questions?

  • Actually, as a Fundie Christian, I can tell you we do worry about all of the above.

    To SR, doesn’t the fact that Christians knew this stuff was coming tell you anything? Make fun all you like; but I find the fact that your church taught it (& all of them did) very telling. Like the fact that the anti-christ will divide the world into 10 regions being taught for centuries, & now the UN is working to make that happen. Yeah, 30 years ago, if you said that (& it was being preached on a regular basis), people thought NO WAY. Now a one-world government is just a matter of time. And the ID cards will only speed it on it’s way.

    As Christians, we are supposed to pray on a continual basis “Come Lord Jesus”; but at the same time we don’t want to see anyone left behind.

    GOD BLESS

  • “As Christians, we are supposed to pray on a continual basis “Come Lord Jesus”; but at the same time we don’t want to see anyone left behind.” – Sylvia

    And Jesus can’t come until the Anti-Christ does. And he can’t come until the world is falling to pieces. And he can’t come unless Isreal controls all the holy land, which is why there can’t be a Palestinian state. And…
    And…
    And…
    AND…

    This is my prayer:

    “God, please, do the Rapture thing. Take Pat, take Jerry, take James. Take W. Really, reduce the world population by 10 or 20%. But while you are at it, get rid of the Anti-Christ. We don’t really need a time of tribulations. You’ve put off the end of the world by at least two millenium. No rush now.

    But really, Take Pat and the rest. They don’t want to die like the rest of us. I’m good with that. Take them whole, don’t leave anything behind. It’s okay!”

  • Sylvia,
    I think the issue for many here is that we simply cannot credit scripture and so stuff like this looks like demented ravings. So sorry.

    Even if we could ascertain biblical authorship and understood the justifications for what would become the canonical bible, there is still the problem of revealed divine knowledge. Revelation is basically hearsay, and is no proof in itself. A prophet can be a liar, or mad. Who can tell? If anything, if God wanted to condemn as many people to hell as he could, he could do no better than to entrust his message to prophets. And even if fundamentalist preachers got a prediction right based, supposedly, on a careful reading of scripture (a big ‘if’, especially given all of the interpretations of scripture)–well, a broken clock is correct twice a day. What makes a prediction persuasive is the reasoning that led to it, and the evidence. We seldom hear about the multitudinous erroneous predictions–the worst of which is the Jehovah’s Witnesses predicting the end of the world in 1914 (they had to revise their dogma somewhat to conform to inconvenient reality; concrete predictions can be a bitch when you use a specious foundation). This wrong prediction should have killed the Witnesses, but it goes to show that you can spin damn near anything and the rubes will buy it.

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