The American people may be ‘aggrieved,’ but not about this

As the debate on the [tag]flag[/tag] [tag]amendment[/tag] got underway yesterday in the Senate, one of the leading proponents of the measure, Sen. [tag]Orrin Hatch[/tag] (R-Utah), insisted there’s a genuine public clamoring for this amendment.

“They say that [tag]flag burning[/tag] is a rare occurrence; it is not that [tag]rare[/tag],” he told the chamber. An aide hoisted a large blue poster detailing 17 incidents of flag desecration over three years. Hatch, citing “an ongoing offense against common decency,” read them all. “That’s just mentioning some that we know of; there’s a lot more than that, I’m sure,” he said.

Never mind that, in most cases, the perpetrators could be prosecuted for theft or vandalism. For Hatch, this was sufficient evidence of the need for an amendment. “Now, I have to tell you,” he vouched, “the American people are aggrieved.”

First, those “17 incidents in three years” estimate is open to some debate — some senators counted seven acts in the last six years, others noted 10 cases over the last 10 years — but even if we accept Hatch’s numbers at face value, fewer than six incidents a year does not a [tag]constitutional[/tag] crisis make.

Second, and more importantly, is the notion that “the American people are aggrieved.” After all, this is a proven vote-getter, right? The only reason Congress is taking this measure up is because voters expect constitutional protections for symbols, right?

As it turns out, not really.

Gallup asked Americans over the weekend if the support “a constitutional amendment that would allow Congress and state governments to make it illegal to burn the American flag.” Oddly enough, 54% said they oppose the amendment.

It’s a pleasant surprise because I’d assumed for some time that the public would back the measure enthusiastically. Indeed, in 1999, a Gallup [tag]poll[/tag] found that 63% of Americans supported changing the [tag]Constitution[/tag] to prohibit flag burning.

But if the most recent Gallup poll is right, there may be a growing maturity on the part of the electorate to see through cynical schemes that “fix” problems that don’t exist. It’s an encouraging development.

They’re after people who are expressing heartfelt disgust with this country or its policies – a noble tradition here even before we were a country, and one which no Amendment to the Bill of Rights will “control” (in fact, it will no doubt stimulate many more burnings)

As long as our servants in the nation’s capital want to busy themselves, at our expense, with trivial matters like this, they should go after those mounds of flesh who show up at Republican rallies and conventions wearing images of the flag all over their blubbery bodies. That’s an obscene insult to our flag, imho.

  • And any politician who stood up and told the truth–that this is a silly issue–would be crucified in the Rightwing Noise Machine and in the MSM. They’ve made it very difficult to tell the truth. No wonder politicians hem and haw about issues.

  • Hatch has to be one of the biggist liars and worst bloviators in the Senate today. Just his lies alone about his dishonest treatment of Clinton’s appointments while Hatch was Chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee confirms his status as a big liar. His comments in this current “debate” confirm his nonsensical bloviator status, too.

    What Harry Reid said about The Royal Buffoon can also be said about Hatch and every other Rethug: “When something comes out of George Bush’s mouth, it means that the exact opposite is true.” Amen. And, it seems that America is finally waking up to the fact that the brown, smelly effluence swirling around their feet is the collective horseshit that the Rethugs have been spewing and the CCCP has been transmitting for more than five years now.

    The old saying is “wake up and smell the coffee.” With these Bastards, it is “wake up and smell the (horse)shit.” I hope soon that America will collectively send these dangerous clowns swirling down the toilet bowl of history, never to be heard from again. Please God, please help America in its time of need….

  • I was disappointed to see that many Dems support this stupid amendment. According to Jonathan Alter the Dems who support it are:

    “But at last count, 13 will support it: Max Baucus of Montana, Evan Bayh of Indiana, Mark Dayton of Minnesota, Dianne Feinstein of California, Tim Johnson of South Dakota, Mary Landrieu of Louisiana, Blanche Lincoln of Arkansas, Ben Nelson of Nebraska, Bill Nelson of Florida, Harry Reid of Nevada, Ken Salazar of Colorado, Jay Rockefeller of West Virginia, and Debbie Stabenow of Michigan.”

    I have to wonder what these Dems are thinking.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13487935/site/newsweek/page/2/

  • I think emphasizing how few cases there are – and a hundred a year would be utterly trivial – gives some legitimacy to the proposed amendment in the first place. It’s a form of speech, of protest, for a redress of grievances and is quite properly protected under the First Amendment.

    If there were truly a huge number of instances of flag burning, I’d say it indicates a problem with government, not a flaw in the First Amendment.

  • Hatch, citing “an ongoing offense against common decency,” read them all.

    Oh, are we criminalizing offensive behavior now?

  • I am less aggrivated about the burning of the flag in true protest than I am that the stars and sripes are on paper napkins and plates used for food and thrown away like garbage, used as a pattern for shorts (which you sit one), and other paraphernalia that one sees during the patriotic holidays. But heck I guess that is considered “patriotic” not garbage or tacky.

  • Bush has been known to sign his autograph on actual American flags — a clear desecration that is already banned by statute. If disrespect for the flag is such a grave offense worthy of a Constitutional amendment, why aren’t its supporters calling for the president’s arrest or impeachment?

    I guess pens sign autographs, not people.

  • Let’s face it, conservatives were badly scared by the Vietnam experience. Sure most of them didn’t actual go to ‘Nam and very few of them have physical scars as a result of the experience, but these delicate souls were scared emotionally. They saw dirty hippies flouting authority and burning flags; they were determined to do something about it. Well, it took them awhile to take control of the government, but they’ve finally done it. Now those damn hippies will pay should they ever burn a flag again.

    Such long memories and patients are hallmarks of this movement. So much of what we see today from Bush’s Social Security privatization, to Cheney’s “Unitary Executive” power grab are rooted in the past. Conservatives never got over their defeat to FDR with regard to SS and Cheney never got over Nixon’s resignation. The authoritarian streak of Roberts, Ailto et. al. can be seen as a reaction to the break down of institutions during the Vietnam period.

    I think a good response to this amendment, from those Senators who oppose it, would be to show up on the Senate floor in tied t-shirts, ragged jeans, and long haired wigs. The women can come with long flowing dresses. This would be a good reminder that those voting for this amendment are locked in the past.

  • It’s supposed to be a Bill of Rights, not a Bill of Wrongs. Although there are some fairly trivial proecedural amendments, most of the others guarantee rights except for the restrictions of Prohibition and that was repealed. I hate hate hate the idea of the wingnuts messing with the Bill of Rights. If they are interested in restricting the government, this document does it the right way.

  • Well, if the amendment misses by one vote, expect an even larger call for a constitutional convention.

    These idolators really depress me.

  • The gods forbid that we should burn a flag—there might be a Republican wrapped up in it! Maybe we can just burn big pictures of Hatch instead….

  • when it comes to buning the flag I feel bad that is a flag that showed pride of our fore fathers that fought against the english redcaots to create a new government. No body knows what media says about us. it is the about media it is like gossip to an old lady
    telling many things as they can to start a ball rolling No body wud like to see our flag being burnt as I saw it many times on the cbs
    evening news due to the the politics

  • “66-34.” – Steve

    Just another EXCUSE for a constitutional convention.

    The REASON for a constitional convention, of course, it to allow Bush to be elected President-for-Life.

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