Will v. Kristol

Four years ago, the [tag]neocons[/tag] argued that “regime change” in Iraq was key to spreading freedom and establishing stability in the [tag]Middle East[/tag]. [tag]Bush[/tag] listened — and things haven’t worked out particularly well. The neocons have adapted their strategy and now believe invading Iran is the key to the regions problems. Richard Perle, Newt Gingrich, and most notably, William Kristol, are all using the ongoing violence between [tag]Israel[/tag] and [tag]Lebanon[/tag] as grounds for yet another U.S. [tag]war[/tag].

Today, of all people, [tag]George Will[/tag] takes on the lot of them in a surprisingly hard-hitting column. Indeed, the prospect of another war pushed by the neocons and executed by incompetent administration officials seems to have pushed Will over the edge.

Will notes, for example, that Kristol recommends a strike against Iranian nuclear facilities. “Why wait?” [tag]Kristol[/tag] asks. “Does anyone think a nuclear Iran can be contained?” He acknowledges that there would be “repercussions,” but he insists they would be “healthy ones, showing a strong America that has rejected further appeasement.” Will responds:

“Why wait?” Perhaps because the U.S. [tag]military[/tag] has enough on its plate in the deteriorating wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, which both border Iran. And perhaps because containment, although of uncertain success, did work against Stalin and his successors, and might be preferable to a war against a nation much larger and more formidable than Iraq. And if Bashar Assad’s regime does not fall after the Weekly Standard’s hoped-for third war, with Iran, does the magazine hope for a fourth?

You know, that Will guy is making some sense.

As for the “healthy” repercussions that the Weekly Standard is so eager to experience from yet another war: One envies that publication’s powers of prophecy but wishes it had exercised them on the nation’s behalf before all of the surprises — all of them unpleasant — that Iraq has inflicted. And regarding the “appeasement” that the Weekly Standard decries: Does the magazine really wish the administration had heeded its earlier (Dec. 20, 2004) editorial advocating war with yet another nation — the bombing of Syria?

Neoconservatives have much to learn, even from Buddy Bell, manager of the Kansas City Royals. After his team lost its 10th consecutive game in April, Bell said, “I never say it can’t get worse.” In their next game, the Royals extended their losing streak to 11 and in May lost 13 in a row.

When Will trots out the baseball analogies, you know he means business.

I’d also add that Will has been surprisingly helpful of late. In May, Will blasted the whole notion of “values voters.” For that matter, last fall, Will was unusually candid in questioning Bush’s competence. Earlier this year, Will took on some of the GOP rhetoric on tax exemptions and misplaced moralizing. Not long after, Will gave a rather scathing assessment of the president’s energy policy. And when it comes to the war in Iraq, Will has described it as “untenable,” compared it to Vietnam, and said the war could “unmake” Bush’s presidency.

It’s almost as if Will is considering what’s become of conservative thought in the 21st century and wants to make clear, “I’m not with these guys.”

It’s probably only a matter of time before Will is declared a liberal for his views but I’m glad that someone on the right is calling out the neocons on their insanity.

  • Will may be a bellweather of what “mainstream” conservative voters are thinking. If so, the left no longer has the corner on the “angry” voter market and hopefully we are only months away from turning out the Repubs from total power. The once monolithic conservative movement appears to be rotting from the inside out. That’s a good sign for America.

  • George Will realizes the you can’t be “a small-government conservative,” while advocating lots of wars, spending (and taxes), and government power.

    When George Will supports taking the crown of “the world’s only super-power” off America’s head and is ready to hand it to some other country (Britain, China, Japan, France, or the EU), then the modern conservative movement will be on the verge of fracturing.

    The truth is that liberalism is the only philosophy that can sustain internationalism.

  • Well, it’s a start and I’m grateful for it. But Will has been a significant enabler of the neocon agenda for quite a while, and it will take more and even sharper rebukes from him to balance the scales as far as I’m concerned.

    Still, it’s a voice of sweet reason in a sea of insanity for a change, so let’s inhale deeply and enjoy it while it lasts.

  • Is it brave for a rat to flee a sinking ship? Should we applaud a rat for leaping over the railing after it helped the entire gang chew a hole in the hull?

    Will’s adaptation does not nearly capture the subversive and cutting-edge eloquence of the original blogofascism as it appeared on the Web three years ago. Telling someone not to poke a hole in the boat – now that takes courage. But that’s a small consolation when you’re stranded in the water with the vermin.

  • George Will may be a scaly old conservative, but at least he’s reality based.

  • George Will has commented on the conservatism of William Kristol et al.

    Good, that is all he is qualified to do. Will thinks liberalism is like his reflection in the mirror, the part is on the left side, so all the positions must be just the opposite of his. He does not understand that liberalism is a line skewed in 3D from his line of conservatism. He can not predict nor should he comment on what a liberal does or should think.

    But conservatives, let him rip. And rip he did. This was a great commentary and I’m glad he wrote it.

    But I’m surprised he doesn’t realize that if we attack Iran, that rather than having two wars in Afghanistan and Iraq and adding one, we would reduce our wars down to one big one over all three countries 😉

    See, the Neocons just want to simplify things for us. Well, for Boy George II, who doubtlessly is troubled by having two wars to fight. Once we add Iran, then there is only one. Need to make things easy for the boss.

  • #6 has it right. Will is perhaps the avatar of a conservatism that, as progressives, we should resist but don’t have to fear, from an existential POV. You might even call it “Enlightenment conservatism,” in that it accepts limits on what we can know and control and isn’t overbearingly prescriptive in terms of worldview. This was, more or less, the Reagan model of conservatism, stripped away of the Gipper’s charms.

    Unfortunately, it’s been overtaken, at least operationally, by Rove/Kristol/Norquist/Dobson pseudo-conservatism, which really thinks it has all the answers, is sanctioned and even charged from On High with implementing them, and feels free to run roughshod over all obstacles–of the law, precedent, morality, whatever–in doing so.

  • I can sympathize with Will. I remember a time, back in the late ‘fifties, when the Republicans really were “the party of Lincoln”. I worked on a campaign for Al Hicks, a black barber (mine, incidentally) who ran for the State Assembly as a Republican. They said, after Al’s loss to 9-term incumbent Dem. Eddie Gaffney, that we hadn’t made his posters black enough — our district included all the Fillmore district, then the major black slum … now it’s all boutiques and trendy restaurants. All the Democrats in San Francisco wanted, or so it seemed to me then, was to keep the blacks out of the (Irish Catholic) Mission district.

    Though I was raised by New Deal Democrats, I was a member of the California Young Republicans, primarily because of their stand on race issues. It was also the Republicans who sponsored the Foreign Affairs Council presentations, supported the Sierra Club, and urged reasonably small, good government. Republican Mayor George Christopher, Gov. Goodwin Knight, Sen. Tom Kuchel … even (thoughtful) California Democrats voted for them sometimes. By 1960 these worthies were already being threatened by extremist interests (mainly Southern California oil money) who would soon take over their party.

    The local Democratic Party was radically altered by the arrival of John F. Kennedy, who made his proposal for the Peace Corps in a thrilling speech at San Francisco’s Cow Palace. It felt good to me to be returning to the Democrats. Writers for “Human Events” and on-air personalities like Fulton Lewis, Jr., were beginning to be embarrassing. Under JFK and LBJ, the Peace Corps and Great Society programs were all the news by the next round of elections in 1964; Vietnam was a blip on most people’s radar (even though LBJ cranked it up with a lie that very August). We thought the Goldwater crowd which took over the Republican party at its 1964 San Francisco national convention, were fascist monsters. Apparently the country thought so, too, because they were soundly defeated that November. I took great pride in hanging a 75-foot Johnson-Humphrey storm banner just under my apartment windows, directly over the “extremist” Goldwater’s campaign office at 7th & Irving (by Golden Gate Park).

    Now, after twelve years of the Reagan-Bush Crime Family and then six more of the Regal Moron, Barry Goldwater looks sane and sober — just before he died he spoke in favor of gays in the military and some way of accommodating gay relationships. I think even Goldwater would state, strongly, “I’m not with these guys”.

  • Its interesting to watch conservatives trying to deal with this continued split in the ranks.

    At 6:58 this morning on the Corner (the NRO blog) ‘jpod’ wrote:

    George Will Goes Nuclear [John Podhoretz]
    This may prove to be the most discussed op-ed of the year.
    Posted at 6:38 AM

    About 7 hours and a hundred or so posts later no one has touched the topic. My guess is that they are figuring out their response offline, but I expect a ‘night of the longknives’ pretty soon.

  • Good to see the bigger rats bravely fleeing the ship they helped ram into the iceberg.

    But of course Will shows his true stripes when he says:

    The Bush administration has rightly refrained from criticizing the region’s only democracy, Israel, for its forceful response to a thousand rockets fired at its population.

    Did the “thousand rockets” precede or follow the deliberate bombing of Lebanese civilian targets, George? And does the “democracy” you speak of include the people who live as second class citizens?

    Here, George, have a small anvil. Have a good drown.

  • First of all, George Will is not a conservative in the traditional sense (any more than William Kristol is). BOTH men actually are neoconservatives and they just happen to disagree this time around on this aspect of the Bush Administration’s foreign policy.

    One also needs to distinguish the various strands of conservatism that #8 lumps together. Karl Rove is a Republican strategist and tactician. His central loyality is to the man he helped get elected president and to the political institution known as the Republican Party, not the Conservative Movement (as traditionally defined). Kristol may be a Republican and a member of the modern Conservative Movement, however, his loyality is to the neoconservative worldview that he inherited from his parents. Grover Norquist is a coalition builder who I doubt is in the traditionalist vein of conservatism since his whole focus seems to be on less governement and lower taxes (classic liberal stances). Dr. James Dobson is your typical evangelical Protestant who like most of the Christian Right, have only been active in the Conservative Movement since the 1970’s, mostly due to social issues.

    While I am certain that all of these men have met and worked together in some fashion at some point or another I think that because they are so different in perspective they use each other as a means to an end to further their own agendas. Those on the Left do the same thing.

  • VTPaleoCon,

    I really don’t think George Will qualifies as a ‘neo-con’. The man is a real conservative. A “don’t do it just because you can, things were great before because we didn’t mess with them, let’s keep some limits on this Government thing” conservative.

    Kristol wants to do stuff. He wants Government. Not to save us from Katrina but to save us from Saddam.

    Norquist wants Government to be incompetent so we will stop relying on it. He’s the one suggesting Bushite toadies for all the critical posts, like head of FEMA. Dobson wants Government to inflict his bigotry under the guise of religion on America.

    You’ll have to define a ‘traditional conservative’ before I can accept that George Will is not one.

  • While I seldom agree with him, I’ve always found Will to be among the more thoughtful conservatives. Even when you differ with him, you feel as if he came to his point of view through reason and not knee-jerk dogma. That’s how he earned the scorn of Bush 41 as one of the few people he’d never forgive (one of the others being Garry Trudeau) because Will called 41 a “lapdog.”

  • Unfortunately, while Will’s position may indicate what “Mainstream Republicans” are thinking, it is a perfect illustration od the nations continual slide to right. Thirty years ago Richard Nixon was considered a far right Republican – his positions seem downright moderate in a relative sense today. Same with Will – The GOP has oozed right past him and he seems quite sensible by comparison.

  • “The GOP has oozed right past [Will] and he seems quite sensible by comparison.” – ottercliff

    I love the verb you choose 😉

    That’s about right. I don’t know where these ‘conservatives’ came from, unless it was a alergic reaction to Clinton’s successful triangulation strategy, particularly in reforming Welfare. Clinton took the moderate right positions and made them work (and wonky) for the Democrats. Nothing could have driven the Republican’ts madder or further to the ‘right’ than seeing a ‘liberal’ Democrat do what they constantly promised, but never deliver. So naturally they had to change base, pull the center-right their way with scare tactics, and adopt even more extreme positions, even if it means creating an Imperial Presidency that they can NEVER allow a Democrat to obtain, ever again. And in doing so, they have embraced the right ‘wing’ of their party and declared it their base, basically turning themselves 90 degrees from what they stood for all these years since 1964.

    And only now is George Will noticing?

  • I often write George Will a little note of support when he writes something rational. (Obviously, I’m having an effect). Sure as the sun comes up, though, the next day he’s back to his cranky old self. On the flipped-o-meter, he’s still an 8.9. (Kristol keeps the needle pegged, so we really don’t know how far beyond a 10 he is.)

  • Do a Google search on “George Will, Iraq” and you will find that he has been making sense on Iraq for a least two years. Shortly after the “Mission Accomplished” phase of the war, I recall him being open to arguments for the partioning of Iraq. So, this latest column is not in the least bit surprising to me.

    It has been stated that some conservatives were previously liberals who have been mugged by reality. What do we call conservatives who have been mugged by the reality created by their fellow conservatives? Hopefully they will have the guts to retake the Republican party from the muggers.

  • ottercliff, for the record, 30 years ago, nixon was not considered a “far-right” republican; ronald reagan was. nixon was considered a center-right republican.

    35 years ago, though, nixon’s attorney general, john mitchell, proved to be the most prescient of forecasters: staring down at the disarray of the Mayday, 1971 anti-war action, he said “this country is going to go so far to the right you won’t recognize it.”

    truer words….

  • “It has been stated that some conservatives were previously liberals who have been mugged by reality. What do we call conservatives who have been mugged by the reality created by their fellow conservatives?” – lou

    If I remember correctly:

    A conservative is a liberal who has been mugged.

    A libertarian is a conservative who has been investigated.

    What is Will? I think he is an opposition conservative. He knows that conservatives can’t govern from their ideology, and he does not want to surrender his ideology. He wants divided government, where his party can restrain the impulse to overgovern while not being in a position to destroy government itself.

    In short, losing the House and the Presidency would be fine by him, as long has he has the Senate and the Courts.

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