Don’t thank warrantless-searches

The meme of the day for many conservatives is straightforward enough: intelligence acquired through warrantless searches helped prevent the thwarted terrorist hijackings, which makes Dems both wrong (about eavesdropping) and dangerous (about stopping terrorism).

The Wall Street Journal raised the argument today, and John Hinderaker summarized the meme nicely.

We were able to do this because of the NSA’s international terrorist surveillance program. If the Democrats succeed in killing that program insofar as it involves communications with one end inside the United States, on the ground that the program constitutes an invasion of privacy, the NSA will be able to break up terrorist plots overseas, but not ones that involve people (citizens or otherwise) inside the United States, and most directly threaten Americans.

This is wrong for at least two reasons.

First, it’s based on the assumption that U.S. intelligence, obtained by the NSA and acquired through warrantless searches, was directly responsible for stopping this plot. I think it’s probably a little too early to say with any real certainty what role American intelligence played, but there’s already reason to be skeptical of Hinderaker’s claim. As Congressional Quarterly reported, “[Conservative lawmakers] largely praised the administration’s response, although it appeared British authorities had thwarted the plot with minimal involvement by the United States” (via TP). Were British officials able to thwart this attack “because of the NSA’s international terrorist surveillance program”? Reports are still unclear, but it seems like a stretch.

Second, to argue that Dems would prevent intelligence gathering is just silly.

Glenn Greenwald argued the point quite clearly.

Not a single Democrat in Congress wants to stop eavesdropping on the telephone conversations of terrorists — neither international calls nor domestic calls. Nobody is against eavesdropping, and Hinderaker’s warning that Democrats favor eavesdropping only for international calls but want to “kill” the government’s ability to eavesdrop on all other calls is nothing short of a deliberate falsehood.

This point is so obvious, so self-evidently clear, that it should be unnecessary to point it out. The NSA eavesdropping scandal has never been about whether the government should eavesdrop. It is about whether the president has the right to break the law. Those who object to the president’s illegal NSA program do not object to eavesdropping on terrorists. To the contrary, everyone favors eavesdropping on terrorists. The objection is to the president’s illegal eavesdropping (i.e., in secret and without warrants) rather than eavesdropping in compliance with the law (i.e., with judicial oversight and approval).

Follow the law, spy on the bad guys, prevent attacks. It’s really not that complicated.

Update: Spencer Ackerman adds some additional insights to the subject, noting that British officials were able to stop the plot by acquiring intelligence legally — by obtaining and complying with court-issued warrants. “This week’s counter-terrorism success should demonstrate how possible it is, and remains, for open-society to combat jihadism while preserving the rule of law,” Ackerman said.

In fact, let’s take that a step further. According to a U.S. intelligence official cited by the Post, some of the British terrorists placed phone calls to individuals within the United States. Whoever they called should very obviously be placed under surveillance. The FISA court would undoubtedly agree, despite Bush’s protests that successful counter-terrorism surveillance has to occur outside the restrictions of FISA. In short: counter-terrorism success, vigilance, the rule of law, and you — perfect together.

Remind me, what are conservatives complaining about again?

Doubly annoying.

First, claiming any credit for the British work.

Second, claiming that a program with less than 1% success rate had anything to do with this.

  • …….but there’s already reason to be skeptical of Hinderaker’s claim….

    As soon as he opens his mouth, there’s more than enough reason to be skeptical. The guy is physically allergic to honesty.

  • So how do we reconcile Ackerman’s insight with that of Hastert’s in the post below? Hastert flat out says the US gave the tools and skills and everything else to make the bust happen to the Brits. But that does not appear to be the case. Wonder if any reporters will call Hastert on this?

  • But let me guess… our retarded media will continue to allow this easily refuted talking point to be rolled out at every occasion, and won’t expend the five minutes of Googling it would take to figure out if it’s true or not, because it makes for a fun debate.

    The media is our problem. Their job seems to be to misinform us, but only if it sells advertisement.

  • “Remind me, what are conservatives complaining about again?”

    That some of us take seriously the rights gained via the constitutional and legal processes of our democracy. And we have enemies that hate us because we are free.

    Typical two faced, reactionary republicans.

  • Couple things:

    1. O’Reilly interviewed Chertoff yesterday. Bill said that it was his undertanding the NSA went to the FISA court for warrants.

    2. The folks at defensetech.org make this observation: “The NSA was apparently involved with intercepting the group’s communications. (Note to those who think this has anything to do with recent NSA controversies: it doesn’t. This is what the NSA has always done. The NSA does surveillance on British subjects with the British government’s consent, and the UK’s GCHQ returns the favor when necessary….)”

  • If the NSA went to the FISA court to get the warrants, then they used the law as it was intended, and no one has a complaint. Then the Republican’t argument that we need a warrantless surveillance program as proved by this attack falls on its face. So we are back to square one.

    Republican’ts are using this plot to claim their illegal programs are necessary to protect America, but in fact they are not.

  • BushCo wants badly to associated with a winner and has latched on the British success in foiling the terrorist plot to that end. There is however good reason to suspect that the Brits kept the US largely in the dark about the investigation, because they couldn’t trust BushCo. to blow the investigation by using the information for political ends. I mentioned this yesterday. Today Juan Cole has more on this possibility.

    US authorities were only told about some details two weeks ago, apparently. It may be that the British counter-terrorism community learned its lesson from the loose lips of the Bushies in summer of 2004. I argued then that from what we could tell from open sources, it seemed likely that the Bush administration played politics with information about a double agent in Pakistan who was helping monitor a London al-Qaeda cell. It seems likely that the election-year leak allowed budding terrorists like Mohammad Sadique Khan to escape closer scrutiny, and so permitted the 7/7/05 London subway bombings to go forward.

    This time, the MI5 and MI6 and the Pakistani Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) may not have told Washington everything.

  • The RNC blamed a low-level staffer for distributing the fundraising appeal, which the party said had been scheduled for release before news of the plot broke.

    “Once the RNC learned of this error we ceased distribution of the e-mail,” said Tracey Schmitt, a party spokeswoman.

    “And we promptly PROMOTED that low-level staffer UP 5 Levels, earning him the Karl Rove medal” Tracey Schmitt went on to state.

  • … And just think of how many other plots we could stop if we interred all Brits in Guantanamo and tortured them one at a time … but surely Democrats would object to that to.

  • So the Brits catch REAL terrorists planning a REAL attack

    Here in the good ol’ USofA, our government’s domestic terrorist operation has netted, well,…

    Jose Padilla,

    and

    a couple of loons in Florida who couldn’t even afford boots.

    As I’ve always thought, making the terrorists laugh themselves to death has been the main objective of this administration.

  • I don’t mean to sound like a wing nut but….

    I think it would be far better if the Democrats actually stated facts instead of speculation.

    for example: IF there is evidence that was obtained with a warrantless wiretap then the White House would have a strong argument for their position.

    IF a FISA judge would not have authorized the wiretap within 72 hours after the wiretap started then the White House would have a strong argument for their position.

    However, I am fairly confident that none of the collection of evidence or intelligence in this case consists of anything that any Senate Democrat would have objected to.

    I find it fascinating that Mayor Bloomberg said that he had known about this for months but Bush just found out about it three days ago. Either my information is not correct or the Bush administration has some serious explaining to do.

  • “I find it fascinating that Mayor Bloomberg said that he had known about this for months but Bush just found out about it three days ago.” – Neil Wilson

    Maybe the British consider Bloomberg to be reliable 😉

  • “Update: Spencer Ackerman adds some additional insights to the subject, noting that British officials were able to stop the plot by acquiring intelligence legally — by obtaining and complying with court-issued warrants. “This week’s counter-terrorism success should demonstrate”

    Rubbish.

    Ackerman provides deception, not insight.

    There is NO prior requirement of establishment of probable cause required for wiretap warrants in the UK.

    The courts are NOT even involved at that point.

    The courts don’t approve wiretaps, the Home Secretary, a cabinet official, renders decisions on wiretaps.

    The equivalent would be Chertoff’s office handling all such warrant requests here.

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