Congress putting its stamp of approval on torture

In a vote that surprised absolutely no one, the House easily approved rubber-stamped [tag]Bush[/tag]’s legislation on interrogation and prosecution of terrorism suspects. The final vote was 253 to 168 — 34 Dems voted with the GOP majority, while seven Republicans broke ranks to vote against it. The [tag]Senate[/tag] is expected to put its stamp of approval on the measure today.

There are a couple of angles to the developments yesterday that are worth considering: the process and the substance. On the prior, the debate has gone largely as expected.

“It is outrageous that House Democrats, at the urging of their leaders, continue to oppose giving President Bush the tools he needs to protect our country,” said House Majority Leader John A. Boehner (R-Ohio).

Such comments infuriated Democrats, who said they stand second to no one in fighting terrorists but fear the United States is abandoning fundamental principles of fairness. The bill “is really more about who we are as a people than it is about those who seek to harm us,” said House Minority Whip Steny H. Hoyer (D-Md.). “Defending America requires us to marshal the full range of our power: diplomatic and military, economic and moral. And when our moral standing is eroded, our international credibility is diminished as well.”

Good for Hoyer. Indeed, for those of you who weren’t able to watch the debate on C-SPAN, it’s worth noting that the strong majority of the Democratic caucus gave impassioned speeches about human rights, American decency, and the rule of law.

Sure, it was disappointing to see 34 Dems break ranks, but four out of five House Dems stood firm against this nonsense. Glenn Greenwald, who has taken a leading role on this issue and has taken the party to task repeatedly of late, said, “[tag]House[/tag] [tag]Democrats[/tag] acquitted themselves reasonably well on this issue. Several House members gave very stirring and passionate speeches about defending core American values.” Unfortunately, it wasn’t enough.

And then, of course, there’s the substance of exactly what the legislation is all about.

The New York Times’ editorial on the measure is today’s must-read piece. The paper of record calls the legislation “a tyrannical law that will be ranked with the low points in American democracy, our generation’s version of the Alien and Sedition Acts.”

The editorial did readers the favor of listing the bill’s biggest flaws:

Enemy Combatants: A dangerously broad definition of “illegal enemy combatant” in the bill could subject legal residents of the United States, as well as foreign citizens living in their own countries, to summary arrest and indefinite detention with no hope of appeal. The president could give the power to apply this label to anyone he wanted.

The Geneva Conventions: The bill would repudiate a half-century of international precedent by allowing Mr. Bush to decide on his own what abusive interrogation methods he considered permissible. And his decision could stay secret — there’s no requirement that this list be published.

Habeas Corpus: Detainees in U.S. military prisons would lose the basic right to challenge their imprisonment. These cases do not clog the courts, nor coddle terrorists. They simply give wrongly imprisoned people a chance to prove their innocence.

Judicial Review: The courts would have no power to review any aspect of this new system, except verdicts by military tribunals. The bill would limit appeals and bar legal actions based on the Geneva Conventions, directly or indirectly. All Mr. Bush would have to do to lock anyone up forever is to declare him an illegal combatant and not have a trial.

Coerced Evidence: Coerced evidence would be permissible if a judge considered it reliable — already a contradiction in terms — and relevant. Coercion is defined in a way that exempts anything done before the passage of the 2005 Detainee Treatment Act, and anything else Mr. Bush chooses.

Secret Evidence: American standards of justice prohibit evidence and testimony that is kept secret from the defendant, whether the accused is a corporate executive or a mass murderer. But the bill as redrafted by Mr. Cheney seems to weaken protections against such evidence.

Offenses: The definition of [tag]torture[/tag] is unacceptably narrow, a virtual reprise of the deeply cynical memos the administration produced after 9/11. Rape and sexual assault are defined in a retrograde way that covers only forced or coerced activity, and not other forms of nonconsensual sex. The bill would effectively eliminate the idea of rape as torture.

It’s worth noting that this list of “flaws” is not subjective — [tag]Republicans[/tag] on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue freely admit that this is exactly what the legislation is intended to do. Indeed, they’re proud of the bill, and spent much of the House floor debate taunting Dems, daring them to vote against it.

It’s quite literally tragic. Someday, we’ll get our country will rediscover its values, decency, and moral compass, but today is not that day.

As Glenn noted yesterday, the Democrats who vote for this bill will see roughly the same benefit as the Dems who voted to (give the President the power to) invade Iraq in 2002. In other words, no benefits at all. Karl Rove will still accuse them of being weak on terrorism. And when they change positions next year, they will have been “for torture before they were against it.”

Meanwhile, the list of the Administration’s terror-related blunders continues go grow: torture, secret prisons, spying on Americans, no body armor, 2,500 dead soldiers and civil war in Iraq, spreading chaos in Afganistan, Bin Laden still free.

Each and every one of these things would make a solid political attack ad, but so many Democrats are busy supporting the president that they can’t make use of them.

  • Trent Lott said he couldn’t see the problem with it as who hasn’t been attacked by someone’s dog while delivering the laundry? Frankly I think there is a fair amount of difference between my mother-in-law’s toy poodle & a 100lb German Shepherd but I guess that’s just me.

    And I’ve never had my laundry delivered. Must be how the other half live.

  • I know some people here in America who would kick anyone’s ass for threatening to take away their liberties and freedoms. Wake up Americans, that’s just what this Congress has done. I think it is time we kick its ass in November. I’m already red in the face just typing this post.
    -Kevo

  • This is about nothing other than ensuring a retroactive blessing to the horrors of the past committed by all levels of this Administration. They could not care less about any of the other provisions–they want to cover their arses because they recognize and realize that accountability is on the way.

  • Another big win for bin Laden. George Bush and his rubber stamp GOP coward enablers in Congress continue to provide incentive for terrorism while weakening our hand at fighting terrorism. Huzzah!

  • It’s MOURNING in America today. It’s raining here in Cleveland, Ohio probably from the good lord weeping from above.

    I’ll get over the despair tomorrow. The question is, what do we do with our anger after that? A re-energized campaign for Nov. 7th, I guess?

  • Americans think the GOP is the party of values, why? This is just sad. I can think of no group I would want to have these powers but at the very bottom of my list if GWB, Al Gonzo, and Dick Shooter. Soon America will have the moral compass of a Fortune 500 corporation. If it helps the bottom line it must be good!

  • I can’t imagine that the Supreme Court will ever allow this law to stand. If they agree that it is constitutionally permissible to deny judicial review under any circumstances, they might as well disband.

  • The next time someone connected to this travesty of a government dares comment about “so-and-so hates America,” I will be able to reply, “Well, of course they do!”

    And all I’ll have to produce for evidence is the moment in time that this legislative abomination is signed into law….

  • “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of Happiness.”

    I would imagine that among the other Creator-endowed rights referenced would be “the dignity and worth of the human person” (from the preamble to the Charter of the United Nations). Mr. Bush has harped on the freedoms emanating from the Creator, but certainly he has demonstrated that certain human rights are indeed alienable, per his sole discretion. While I hold no brief for the terrorists who have done and would do us harm, by engaging in torture we debase ourselves, no one else.

    In regard to Mr. Bush, I am reminded of passage from the Romance of the Rose:

    “If you can understand me correctly, you will learn by these words that neither riches nor reverence, neither dignities, honors, nor power, nor any of Fortune’s favors (for I do not except a single one) have the strength to make those who possess them good or worthy to enjoy those riches, honors, and status. But if there is violence in them, or pride or any other evil, the exalted station on which they perch will show up these failings and reveal them more quickly than if they were of lowly estate, and therefore unable to do so much harm. For when they use their power, their deeds denounce their intentions, showing and signifying that they are neither good nor worth of their riches, dignities, honors, and powers” (From The Advice of Reason).

    In my opinion, the unholy deeds Mr. Bush would inflict do in fact denounce his intention of fighting the evildoers and spreading democracy.

    So: “But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariable the same Object, evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.”

  • “Someday, we’ll get our country will rediscover its values, decency, and moral compass, ..” –CB. You think so?

    34 Dems support this abomination? Who, exactly?

  • MNProgressive: Americans think the GOP is the party of values, why?

    cause most don’t get their news online and/or they’re fucking stupid and believe the rethugs are the same republicans for whom they’ve voted for all their lives. as well, there’s the ‘it can’t happen here’ train o’ thought or whatever.

  • Hmmmm … I wonder why my representative — Rev. Emmanuel Cleaver — didn’t vote on this matter.

    Looks like I’ll be making a phone call.

  • Attack, attack, attack. Destroying democracy at home and destroying it worldwide. Dirty, lying, stinking,
    thieving, killing, torturing Republicans. The Party of Torture. Your Rep. Sen. or Rep.__________is proud
    to be one.

    Over and over, and over, and over.

  • I’m starting to ask myself if it’s realistic to think that America will ever live up to its stated values. We are now a proudly pro-torture country; the mind reels and the soul shrivels.

    Beyond that, the action Congress is set to take today will make us weaker. In five years or ten or twenty, when there’s another attack, I wonder if any of the Republicans–and the cowardly Democrats who voted with them–who support this abomination will feel a pang of regret at how they worsened our vulnerability and fueled the propaganda of the terrorists… by matching their extremism and descending to their inhuman level.

  • Jesus wept

    I’m near tears today, myself.

    We are being asked to trust the discretion of a man who lies as easily as he breathes. The mind boggles.

  • “I’m starting to ask myself if it’s realistic to think that America will ever live up to its stated values. We are now a proudly pro-torture country; the mind reels and the soul shrivels.”

    Not while there are any homo sapiens about. However, the Constiution and attendant Bill of Rights are supposed to be our guide should we have such questions as “Is it OK to hold people in jail indefinetly?” (To which the Founding Fathers would reply, Don’t be an ass!) The more we stray from that guide, the more we fail as a nation. Bush and the cowards who decided to follow him are leading us further and further away (Link to roll call below) :

    http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/109/house/2/votes/491/

    I don’t know how older people feel about this but it seems to me we’re going through a new low in America’s history, similar to the rounding up of American citizens who were of Japanese decent after the attack on Pearl Harbor. I’m not even sure how the SC will respond to this law. It didn’t have a problem with the concentration camps on American soil and even objected to the use of the term in reference to the “Detention Camps.”

    Looked at from a completely cold and analytical point of view, this is only the same crap that other people have pulled before and it will not last forever. But man, does it make me sick to see it happening now.

  • And this morning I heard that the Senate Dems won’t be filibustering against this monstrosity. I wonder if there’s anything that would make them stand up and fight. Letting the country go down the toilet just so they can point to Bush as the flusher is NOT a good plan.

  • After WWII we bent over backwards to guarantee that even the Nazis got their day in court. “Victims” of the Spanish Inquisition actually had more legal rights than we grant our detainees. This country began its nose-dive from naive goodness with the arrival of Ronald Reagan. Under the Regal Moron and the Bush Crtime Family it has now reached its nadir.

    “If there was ever a moment for a filibuster, this was it.” Unfortunately, we’re dealing with Democratic so-called leaders, who are themselves so comfortably ensconced in their GOP-controlled offices that their spines have ceased to function.

  • Quick, name the country(s) that 1) had the authority to arrest anyone they wanted for “crimes against the state,” 2) could hold them indefinitely without showing proof of any actual crime, and 3) could then imprison them with secret evidence that the prisoner never got to see or confront.

    a) Hitler’s Germany
    b) Stalinist Russia
    c) Pol Pot/Khmer Rouge
    d) the United States of America 2006
    e) all of the above.

  • What should the shredding of the Constitution by the Republicans mean to the American public?

    The terrorists have won.

  • When you and all the other liberals are saying this stuff, all the Republicans are thinking about these things (the torture bill and the other bill), “Well, would it really be so bad if…”

    We all need to inform them that would-it-really-be-so-bad-if is not a a reason for doing something; by itself, it’s just a guess that things won’t be bad. Then, remind them that ‘yes, it will be that bad, and it is always that bad if…’

    Republicans are living in a fantasy where half or 4/10ths of the peoples’ wisdom is enough to solve all problems. But what if you need that insight from a few people who are not included in the narrow little group you’re already willing to listen to? We need to demonstrate that they can listen to people outside of the group because they’re not going to do it without someone telling them they can.

  • Boy George II says the Terrorist Hate America Because of Our Freedoms.

    So he is busy trashing them all so we won’t be so hated 😉

  • Inexorable momentum in this and similar matters is possible because the public line of discussion goes, this is bad, OK, this is really bad – but surely the next level of review will axe it. This will never be allowed to pass.

    Then suddenly there are no more levels of review, and it’s the law of the land. Then everyone except a hard core of supporters will say it is an abomination and an outrage. But when it counted, nobody cared enough to do anything about it. Everybody assumed the Senate would kill it, or the Supreme Court, or God.

    If America could see itself as others see it, what would that epiphany be worth? People would throw themselves off cliffs like lemmings. The peoples’ faith in this rogue government is nauseating.

  • Well, that’s that. The terrorists have not so much won as Just Taken Everything. The pumps don’t work ’cause the vandals took the handles and now we are to be sodomized again and again. The Oval Office thugs have now been legalistically protectified and securitized, doubtless amid much gloating. Now Cheney Rumsfeld Wolfowitz Gonzalez /et/ /al/ can just get on with harming America by day and by night and never have to ever stop doing harm.

    With impunity. This will be one of the very few bills that does not get a Presidential Signing Statement tacked on its heinie, or I miss my prognostication entirely.

    Kind Holy Creator, let this dispirited abomination be tested through what is left of our court system, and very soon indeed! Let that filthy pigdog of a Terrorwar Enabling Act furthermore be struck back down to the very deepest pit of Hell where it came from and off our national books forthwith.

    Pray for peace? Certainly. Let us pray for the return of Beltway sanity and ethical First Principles in line with our Foundational Documents in the same breath. Um, my Cherokee and Iroquois ancestors actually gave General Washington the very basis (IN WRITING!) from our own nations’ community governance for that which is now being tossed aside into the incinerator wholesale by Number Forty-Three and the rest of that krue.

    Let us also by statute and just ASAP entirely forbid and prevent any and all Bonesman from ever, ever, EVER holding high office again in America. A woman? No problem. A non-white person (at last)? YES, PLEASE! A Jain, a Hindu, a Sufi? OK by me. Man, I’d welcome a pot-smokin’ Gnostic Deist in the mold of Thomas Jefferson in a heartbeat! But nobody tagged “Poppy” nor “Spike” need apply – we don’t need another junkie in the Big Chair.

    Just so long as the First Principles and all that follows are *respected* once more, that’s all, pretty much anyone who’s proficient and otherwise normal will prolly do just fine. But let the membership rolls of Thule Lodges worldwide (and Lodge 322 in particular!) be forced open in the bright sunlight by lawful Court Order.

    Why? Because the Thule NWO agenda, being formulated contrary to genuine national interest as it is, is the bedrock upon this ongoing tyrannical betrayal of exactly everything worth keeping of American democracy is founded. The “Bonesman’s Override” is what got us into this mess to begin with. Those clowns just do not play by anyone’s rules but their own.

    The Bonesman Coin-Toss Rules: Heads? The Bonesman wins. Tails? YOU LOSE.

    The Bonesman Baseball Rules: STEAL EVERYTHING and SHOOT THE PITCHER.

    Bonesman Basketball Rules: Slam-dunk. Repeat. Kick opponents and referees all aside, in *both* the teeth and the groin whenever possible. Slam-dunk again. Repeat endlessly. Blame the score-keeper for not being a “Team Player”. Gitmo-ize anyone who objects from the bleachers.

    Bonesman Football Rules: Break bones. Run the ball out of bounds and keep on going. Murder the referee. Gitmo-ize anyone who objects from the bleachers.

    Bonesman Family Values: No underpants? YOU ASKED FOR IT! Underpants on? YOU GOT IN THE WAY! No different for boys nor girls. (Drown all who object to the foul paedophiliac practice in the bathtub. Then rape them too.)

    Then, in all cases, just deny the deed’s doing. Then deny the prior denial. Repeat until all manner of psychopathic criminal insanity gains ascendancy and Good People just do *NOTHING* again and again.

    Down with all Bonesmen, I say. Out and away with Thule and Eulogia Lodges nationwide. The Bund was expelled just pre-WWII, but someone forgot something important. The Little Fascistonazi Fish got chased off, but the Big Fascistonazi Fish got to stay snug in their Thule Lodges and keep on drinking that foully-invocated human blood night after night, harming America day and night, just like before.

    This barefaced abomination, this filthy desecration of our enduring national community values is the result of that silly little eror of omission or Big Easy Kerfluffle, as the case may be, as-done back Then. NeoCons will swear that the flamethrower devices strapped on their backs is “just a little flute or a bagpipe, no more” and then laugh cackling and taunt us all for stupid fools while we writhe and our flesh chars under their “music”.

    And why not taunt? Those of us who started letting ourselves get fooled by Ronald “Trickledown” Reagan Back Then are the damn fools who opened the gate for this murdering, torturing, rapine-driven pack of criminal clowns. Why do you think circus clowns are dressed in baggy pants and huge shoes in the first place, anyway? So that them bozos be recognizable far and wide, even to children and fools, as fullbore a**f***erz, that’s why.

    The bigger the shoes, the huger the schlong. Commedia del’arte does not lie. But clowns sure do, and far worse than merely lie, too, now don’t they?

    That is what the NeoPerp TerrorCircus War Clowns now embedded inside the DC Beltway do.

    So today military-grade prisoner rape and sexual assault were criminally “legalizated” to Halliburton-grade US military policy position. And we are all expected to Just Go Along With The Gag, hm? Or be “Enemy Combatized” ourselves, hm?

    Never forget. Honor Creator every morning with gratitude for the life and liberty we still enjoy under Heaven while these criminally traitorous perps all just carve the flesh from our bones and author their own version of their very own non-original “Final Solution” to America’s securitization opportunities, even unto the forced death of us all who remember the Constitution of the United States of America.

    Yes, honor Creator every morning. And pass the Clown Guns! (Handily available in the “Ethnic Foods” aisle of most major supermarket chains. San Elias of the Highly Sanguine and Productive Sword is well worth invoking.)

    Better by far to light even one feeble candle than ever it was to sit and curse the darkness. If lighting that candle does not immediately shed any such thing as Light upon the Path, check with care for the Hoodwink. If no such conceptual comfy-bag is found over the head in question, just check again – then yank that skanky cranium clean out of the sphincter that envelops it.

    It’s then just another “Wicky Wacky Wu” or “See Men Like Trees, Walking” situation. All in the Bible, Ma’am. Yadig?

    Heaven help us all.

  • I agree with most everything said on this forum topic here today. It is a sad day for freedom in America!

    Homer (post # 24), you forgot to list torture as one of the items that “all of the above” had a “legal” right to do. The terrorists have indeed won now. We (America) have become the enemy by tossing are real values aside.

    I believe it was Thomas Jefferson (correct me if I am wrong) who said, “When you trade freedom for security, you end up with neither”.

    We can only hope and pray that the Supremes will strike this down as they should… but even that is not guaranteed. God help us all.

  • US Citizens can be detained for life and with no legal recourse under this bill.
    This scenario became possible under the language changes made over the weekend behind closed doors and submitted on Sept 25:
    If the military mistakenly designates you, a US Citizen, as an “Alien Enemy Combatant” and decides *not* to put you on trail. Then you *never* get any review or chance to prove you are a US citizen. This has not been highlighted in the coverage and only mentioned in the house debate, there seemed to be confusion on the Republic side.
    To bad there was only 2 hours of debate about this bill that effects the fundamental rights of this Republic.
    I feel it is just as bad to deny “aliens” their “unalienable rights to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness”
    But won’t there be a backlash when people realize that citizens can disappeared, and not just ‘others’?

  • Well, now it’s just a matter of time before all the “cut and run” democrats are rounded up and classified as “enemy combatants”.

    Then the best congress money can buy can “do-over” the 22nd amendment – allowing Bush the Junior to continue to wage holy crusade on the heathens.

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