‘I’m not ruling it out, but…’

November 13, 2006

I suppose the first clue that Sen. Joe [tag]Lieberman[/tag] (I-Conn.) was going to cause some heartburn on Meet the Press yesterday was when, fairly early on, the senator smiled and compared himself to former Sen. [tag]Harry Byrd[/tag] (I-Va.), who left the Dems in the 1970s, became an independent, but caucused with the party anyway. It was not exactly an encouraging comparison: 40 years ago, Byrd helped conservatives with their takeover of the South and contributed to tearing the Democratic Party apart.

And now Lieberman is helping connect his Senate role with Byrd’s. Great.

The key part of Lieberman’s discussion with Tim Russert came when the senator responded to questions about his commitment to the caucus.

RUSSERT: If in fact they ask for discipline in the Democratic caucus, and you start to feel uncomfortable with it, would you consider crossing across the—going across the aisle, and joining the Republicans, if they gave you the same chairmanship that you had, and respected your seniority?

LIEBERMAN: Yeah. Well, that’s a hypothetical, which I’m, I’m not going to deal with here. I’m going to be an optimist….

RUSSERT: Jim Jeffords of Vermont crossed over and joined the Democrats.

LIEBERMAN: Yeah.

RUSSERT: And they gave — they gave him his committee chairmanship.

LIEBERMAN: Yeah.

RUSSERT: You’re, you’re not ruling that out at some future time?

LIEBERMAN: I’m not ruling it out, but I hope I don’t get to that point.

Last week, discussing whether he’d bolt the party, Lieberman told the NYT, “This is not so much to threaten anybody, but….” Yesterday, on the possibility of bolting the party, Lieberman said, “I’m not ruling it out, but….”

Ol’ Joe really knows how to establish trust and make a solid commitment, doesn’t he?

The senator wore an almost insufferable grin throughout the interview, appearing every bit the man who believes he can get almost anything he wants from Senate leaders. Every question over the next two years will lead Lieberman to tell Harry Reid, “Give me this or I’m gone.”

He might as well hang the Sword of Damocles in his Senate office.

At one point in yesterday’s interview, the two discussed a lobbying reform measure Lieberman supports, but which may differ from that of other Dem senators.

RUSSERT: But if you said to the Democratic leadership, “I will stay in caucus with you as long as you support this,” you’re in the driver’s seat.

LIEBERMAN: Well, I’m, I’m not going to start by threatening. I’m going to start by making clear what my priorities are, and I’m going to seek the support of, of my leadership and of members of both political parties.

He’s not going to start by threatening, but don’t be surprised if it’s his second choice in any given controversy.

My advice to the party, for what it’s worth, is to give Lieberman what he wants, and make him just happy enough to stay with the caucus for the next two years. Then fight like hell to gain a few more seats in 2008. With just another couple of votes, Lieberman’s threats won’t mean much to anyone except Lieberman.

Joe Lieberman needs to hang it up! He has clearly established a cult of personality around himself, all by himself! Jon Stewart said it best, when it comes to Lieberman’s intellect, balser, balser, balser. I expect ol’Joe will get a bit surly if he doesn’t get his way. Too bad his way is a bit too wishywashy for me to take on a 24/7 basis. -Kevo

  • I can’t stand suck-asses like Joe Lieberman. Pre-election, we were expecting to just miss taking control of the Senate (e.g., I predicted a pickup of 30-H, 5-S, 5-G). IIn keeping with our new resolve to be honest with the public, I think we should announce our intention to strip the weaselly bastard traitor of his chairmanship and seniority and then take our lumps. Pelosi’s control of the House is enough for me.

  • So this is the thanks that Harry Reid and Chuck Schumer get for telling Ned Lamont to piss off after he won the Democratic nomination?

    I can’t wait for the new Senate Democratic chairs to realize that they serve at the whims of Joe Lieberman. Of course, that’s actually what they all chose to do, by supporting someone because he was their “friend” instead of supporting someone who was the actual fucking winner of the Connecticut Senate Democratic primary. (do people actually *enjoy* being friends with Joe Lieberman?)

    I wonder when they’ll realize that friendship has a price, and that they’re making the rest of us – and even themselves! – pay it.

    Thanks, guys.

  • What. A. Tool.

    I take great satisfaction in having convinced every member of my family in Connecticuit to vote for Lamont.

    I hope Reid is laying the groundwork for an “insurance” Senator for the day he throws Lieberman to the curb. He’s going to earn it. Nothing would be better than for Reid to have a moderate Republican ready to flip the minute Holier Joe starts getting cute.

  • I wonder how possible it would be to make a quiet deal to Susan Collins to go Independent and caucus with the Dems *if and only if* Leiberman caucuses with the Republicans…….

    As we’ve all discussed though, the map for 2008 is very favorable for at least a couple Dem pickups. It is highly likely that Democrats will go from 49 to 51 or so, plus Bernie Sanders, at which point Leiberman will not be in the catbird seat. And if Leiberman understands this, he will push and push only to a point. He may be arrogant, vain and insufferable but he’s not stupid.

  • Every Democrat has the same power Lieberman does. Joe is the only one weasely enough to flaunt it. The newest Dem in the Senate could make the same demands Joe does. And if Joe switches any Republican would have the same power Joe had. I doubt that the Dems are going to forget Joe’s games. They’ll neutralize him as soon as they can. There’s a lot of give and take in the Senate already. They’re used to playing power games. Maybe they’ll just put Joe’s chair in the middle of the ailse.

    He is fun to hate though.

  • I voted for Lamont and I’m pretty upset that Joe is my Senator again but since it is 51-49 and the Dems have the House and in 2008 Republicans have to defend 22 seats to the Dems 11 I think Joe has a lot less power than he thinks he does.

    There is going to be a lot less loyalty to Bush going forward and I doubt there will be as many party line votes. Also Dems now control the committees so that solves a lot of problems too.

  • Sore Loserman on Meet the Press: “The fact is that this was not a major realignment election in my opinion”

    First of all, you can’t say “the fact is that” and “in my opinion” in the same sentence. Second of all, the Republicans picked up ZERO seats, so it WAS a major realignment.

    Thanks Loserman for being the only person Karl Rove bragged about in his Time magazine interview…

  • Other than a chairmanship and some pork, want does Lieberman wants? As long as his “wants” are reasonable, I say “use the bastard.” Sure, he can spew Republican talking points–but now since he is an independent, he does not speak for Democrats. Can we identify where Lieberman would run afoul of Democratic orthodoxy?

    I don’t care about his independent, discredited voice. I say put a figurative paperbag over his head and take his vote for the caucus.

  • Well said Dale. There is nothing special about Joe in this regard. If he wants to caucus in good faith with the Dems, great. If he tries to threaten the Dems with leaving, well, Reid isn’t a fool. He’ll make Joe look like a spoiled brat on Meet The Press. “Poor Joe wants to take his marbles and go home. There isn’t much I can do about that, though I did expect better of him. If he prefers to be a member of the party of corruption, that’s his choice. I’m sure the good people of Conneticut will understand.”

  • Can we just stop the Lieberman talk?

    Lieberman + 50 Democrats (counting Sanders) = 51 Democrats. Equals Democrats setting the agendas. Equals more oversight. Equals complementary, not competing, legislation. Equals majority staffing and chairmanship privileges. Equals the rollback of an extra-constitutional executive.

    Lieberman + 49 Republican senators = Chaney running the Senate. Equals Republicans creating a competing legislative agenda. Equals more ridiculous “flag burning” and “gay marriage” legislation designed solely to embarrass Democrats.

    Anyone that is willing to go back to a GOP-run Senate just because they hate Lieberman is (i) failing to understand the importance of the Democrats seizing the agenda from this administration or (ii) a Republican.

    We won. The country is better off today. We may have to compromise with people such as Lieberman at certain times. (But remember, Joe has a 90% progressive voting record.) Shut up and let’s deal with it.

  • Not that it was any great bit of wisdom, but I said in yesterday’s Sunday Discussion that RepubCo would have to be scrutinized daily, even hourly, by Dem leadership to determine who is part of abetting the ongoing perpetuation of BS and who wants to move forward in a more positive governing paradigm. Lieberman should be treated no differently than any other RepubCo mercenary.

    Just putting on the brakes was a huge accomplishment last Tuesday. If Lieberman is so uncooperative that he causes some scenario to be set aside, so be it. Allowing him to be seen as somehow steering Dem plans would be seen as a compromise of overall Dem authority and it’s just not worth it.

    He’s playing up his bipolar disorder for all it’s worth and he’ll make whoever enables him look like idiots in the end.

  • I have to go with DB on this. LIEberman has far less influence than he imagines or that Tim Russert is suggesting.

    Also, it would be cute if the Republican’ts were to once again steal control of a branch of government. That would doubtlessly torque off the 55% of America who voted Democratic this year.

    Also, I’m not sure that Dick Cheney would want to give Boy George II the opportunity to permanently transfer him to the hill to run a 50-50 Senate and strip his Office of the VicePresident of all its “oversight” powers over the White House (which might happen anytime now anyway).

    Believe me, if the Dickster has anything to do with it, he’s not going to allow the Congressional Republican’ts to offer LIEberman enough incentives to get him to caucus with them, thus sticking the Dickster in such a hostile environment.

    After all, he’s got farm raised quail to kill and friends to shoot.

  • Lieberman will crossover and join the Repubs (a la Jeffords) for one simple reason:

    His incessant and insatiable need for POWER

    As long as the DEMS hold the power in the Senate with the ability to appoint the coveted committee chairmanshipsm, Joe Lieberman will remain a Democrat, if only in name……

    It would career suicide for him to become a Republican at this point

    I really cant stand the man, but DEMS need his vote for the pure majority so its a psuedo win-win for both sides……

  • Lieberman will NOT (whoops, sorry) crossover and join the Repubs (a la Jeffords) for one simple reason:

    His incessant and insatiable need for POWER

    As long as the DEMS hold the power in the Senate with the ability to appoint the coveted committee chairmanshipsm, Joe Lieberman will remain a Democrat, if only in name……

    It would career suicide for him to become a Republican at this point

    I really cant stand the man, but DEMS need his vote for the pure majority so its a psuedo win-win for both sides……

  • I still don’t understand the continued outrage against Joe. Don’t you all respect the democratic process in Connecticut? Perhaps Joe doesn’t appeal to the left wing Democrats who represent a minority in the state, but Joe clearly has broad and overwhelming appeal from moderates in both parties as well as Independents. Then please tell me why he shouldn’t he look to best represent his constituents broad set interests, looking to work across party lines instead of voting straight down the line with the Democratic party? I mean, what the heck does he owe the Dems at this point?

  • “McCain/Lieberman 2008 ticket.” – bubba

    Are you trying to make us physically ill?

    We could run Edwards/Obama against that and wipe the floors just on looks alone 😉

  • Ummm, lib4, but if lieberfuck jumps ship, then the Republicans would have the control of the Senate… (and don’t think that they wouldn’t have a nicely crafted Committee Chairman seat all warmed up for him)…

    Unfortunately, there really isn’t anything holding this guy in line, except for (maybe) the fact that, if he actually did jump ship, then he probably wouldn’t be safe ever setting foot in CT again…

  • Barry- the problem with ‘just letting go’ of the talk is that we are in a precarious position here. If we had, say, a 52/48 Dem majority, then Lieberman can do whatever he wants, and noone would care.

    But, with a 51/49, we stand to lose the Senate if he gets his panties in a twist- and, see the interview, the guy knows it and relishes it…

    Basically, we are talking about the entire Democratic party in the Senate being held hostage by Lieberfuck, before they even take their seats! You think that this sort of thing won’t matter down the line? The type of concessions which may have to be made just to keep this guy in the party can hurt us a lot in the longer term.

  • Don’t you all respect the democratic process in Connecticut

    Youre kidding me right?????

    Maybe thats a question you should ask of Lieberman who IGNORED the will of the Democratic voters in the CT Dem primary and selfishly ran as an Independent….

    Any Dem who would endlessly, without question, defend the actions of GWB and his immoral, illegal, and unjust behavior that has killed tens of thousands, but completely castigate Clinton, on the Senate floor none the less, for a sexual indiscretion that frankly killed no one…..is not deserving of any respect within the DEM party regardless of if that DEM is from the liberal, moderate or left of center wing of the party….end of story…sorry Joe you proved you are loyal to one person and one person only….YOURSELF…

  • Ummm, lib4, but if lieberfuck jumps ship, then the Republicans would have the control of the Senate

    If he does jump selfishly jump ship it be 50-50
    But remember the Senate in 2001-03 was 50-50 and they were able to work out a compromise where power was essentially split down the middle…chairmanships were shared….so while that may minimize some of the DEM control of the Senate its not like DEMS would be completely and helplessly in the minority…

    As for Cheney breaking ties that would be a different story….

    Like you said if he does jump ship he would never ever hold a Senate seat again in the state of CT and would be persona non grata…lets hope Joe thinks about the bigger picture and not himself for a change (yeah I know fat chance)

  • My opinion: Lieberman is angry at Democrats for voting him out of the party and he will jump ship at a critical point in the future. I am so sure it will happen that I think we should have a pool to pick the date he finally bolts. My bet is on August 18th, 2007.

    That said, I trust Reid’s political instincts and don’t feel like he will be held hostage by Lieberman. I personally think they should give him the chairmanship of his choice but say good riddance to Joe the first time he makes a my-way-or-else threat about specific legislation.

  • The Joementum runs out of gas in exactly two years when the Dem.’s advantage in the senate is expanded. In the meantime, CT could use some more pork. After that, there will be only page four of the Courant to keep the old narcicist from oblivion. If Joe completely looses it, there are always the girls from Maine who will be soon enough ready to jump as the crowd roars for impeachment.

  • ***Can we just stop the Lieberman talk?***
    ———————————————————————-Barry

    Um…no. The subject is tangible, and critical to the existence of a Senatorial force necessary to roll back the damage caused by Herr Bush and his supportive minions—of which, “mr. joe. lie” is a suspect member.

    ***Lieberman + 50 Democrats (counting Sanders) = 51 Democrats. Equals Democrats setting the agendas. Equals more oversight. Equals complementary, not competing, legislation. Equals majority staffing and chairmanship privileges. Equals the rollback of an extra-constitutional executive.***

    The correct equation is “49 Democrats and 2 Independants.” The agendae will be set by Democrats only on the premise that “mr. joe lie” agrees with the agenda. There will be no complementary legislation on Iraq, the NSA debacle; Gitmo, secret prisons (george’s gulags), or “the George’s War on Truth” (GWoT). No single issue will pass Senatorial muster unless it is approved by “mr. joe lie’s” Homeland Security Committee, which possesses the horrific potential to become a “mini-me” version of the Legislative nightmare that the American People just booted to the curb.

    At the very least—Harry needs to keep “mr. joe lie” off any committee(s) that approve Presidential nominations. The potential for irreversible damage is just too great.

    And Harry also needs to remind “mr. joe lie” that, should he even THINK about crossing the aisle, there is precedent for recalling a Senator. Those who voted for Lamont, will do sop again. Some of those who voted for Schlesinger, would likely vote for Lamont. And the vast bulwark of Democrats who voted for “mr. joe lie” in the general election, will in all likelihood vote for Lamont.

    Yes—“mr. joe lie” needs to be reminded of the chink in his armor—and that, based on the general elections now being over and done with, the potential for huge sums of Democratic Dollars flowing into a recall campaign….

  • Lieberman’s clout is likely to be for a limited time only and I am sure he knows it.

    There was a little noted news item last week. Reelected Republican Senator Thomas from Wyoming, who was already known to have cancer was diagnosed with leukemia after collapsing the previous weekend. I know just about nothing about Thomas and I pity anyone with those medical conditions, but the prognosis for Thomas serving very long in the Senate has to be considered in question. Wyoming has a Democratic governor who would presumably appoint a Democratic replacement senator. I am not familar with Wyoming law, but in most states, the appointed senator serves until the next national election (2008 in this case). Such an eventuality would rob Lieberman of his power to blackmail Reid and the Democrats.

    Additionally, the Dems have got to get the ethics committees working again in both Houses and go after the Abramoff connected crooks. Forse out a few of them and the Dem majorities will grow, even before the 2008 elections.

  • Let’s not count our votes, yet.

    Lieberman may be reliable enough to vote for Harry Reid as Senate Majority leader, but that’s it. Look at his record. He’s for torture and stripping prisoners of habeas corpus rights. He voted for Justice Alito. He voted for the bankruptcy bill (cloture), before he voted against it. He tells his “fellow” Democrats when it comes to criticizing the President over Iraq they should STFU.

    So when Democrats really need that vote or support, Lieberman is only to happy to stab the party in the back.

    Offer him a committee chairmanship and his pick of Senate offices. Promise to consider his views on key legislation. But if it comes to hijacking or blackmailing the Democratic caucus, Democrats shouldn’t hesitate to throw him under the bus.

    So it’s split 50-50, and Cheney becomes the tiebreaker. Maybe then it’ll be time to break out the filibuster. Surely Harry Reid can line up 40 reliable Democratic votes to sustain a filibuster.

  • “So it’s split 50-50, and Cheney becomes the tiebreaker. Maybe then it’ll be time to break out the filibuster.”

    Oh, and the VP impeachment proceedings.

  • So we’ve got Mr. One for Me and Me for One who fancies that he has all this new power.

    But there are other wild cards (votes) that may be played.

    We’ve got the liberal R’s, Snowe and Collins, in Maine.

    Hagel and Specter and a few other R’s who at times vote with the Dems.

    Nelson (NE), Pryor and a few other D’s who at times vote with the R’s.

    And the 2008 election, in which the R’s have almost twice as many seats up for re-election as the Dems.

    Meantime, Lie-berman makes the Dems in CT who voted for him look like idiots.

  • “There was a little noted news item last week. Reelected Republican Senator Thomas from Wyoming, who was already known to have cancer was diagnosed with leukemia after collapsing the previous weekend. I know just about nothing about Thomas and I pity anyone with those medical conditions, but the prognosis for Thomas serving very long in the Senate has to be considered in question. Wyoming has a Democratic governor who would presumably appoint a Democratic replacement senator. I am not familar with Wyoming law, but in most states, the appointed senator serves until the next national election (2008 in this case). Such an eventuality would rob Lieberman of his power to blackmail Reid and the Democrats.” – MW

    First all all, prays for him and his family. That is truly sad.

    Second of all, the Republican’ts can’t even find a healthy nominee for senator from Wyoming? What is wrong with Liddy Dole?

    Third, sad though the news is, it does serve to lighten my spirits. Which just proves how very evil Joe LIEberman truly is.

    “Meantime, Lie-berman makes the Dems in CT who voted for him look like idiots.” – Hannah

    That is certainly true. Nor am I impressed with the Republicans who voted for him.

  • Bottom line is Lieberman has a good hand to play, but there are a lot of reasons it can’t be overplayed. And I suspect he knows it.

    I think there will be a lot of tweaking and taunting, a little rubbing of faces in it, and a couple excedrin headache moments when he dramatically does not vote with the Democrats…..

    ….but I think he will caucus with the Democrats and vote with them most of the time.

    Main reasons are the 2008 Senate map, and voter anger back home. (Also, do we think Cheney will last the full two years?)

  • “Meantime, Lie-berman makes the Dems in CT who voted for him look like idiots.” – Hannah

    “That is certainly true. Nor am I impressed with the Republicans who voted for him.”

    Hey guys, a lot of us herr in CT aren’t impressed with the small slice of Dem voters that put Lamont in the race and allowed Joe to run and win Independent from the Dem party! Now that was thinking!

  • I’m wondering if Cheney would do tie-breakers on procedural matters or just legislation?

    I don’t like Lieberman but I don’t think he did anything wrong by running as an independent.. I wouldn’t want to take that option away from anyone. And he had the votes. He might actually be more representative of more people in his state than most party candidates.

    Joe’s big tie to the Repubican side is the war and that’s a less and less popular issue. The Dems would be more likely to try to block Joe’s chairmanships in a split Senate than they are now while they need him. He’s going to be a pain in the ass, but the Dems decided to not challenge him in CT so they have to live with him.

  • While I don’t want to wish ill on anyone, 78 year old, newly re-elected Craig Thomas of Wyoming announced on Wednesday that he has leukemia. Hopefully, this will be a wake up call to him that he should go home to Wyoming and spend more time with his grandchildren. Newly re-elected, Democratic Gov. Freudenthal can appoint a nice replacement.

  • “Also, do we think Cheney will last the full two years?” – zmulls

    Actually, I do rather expect the Cyborg to survive on bile and venom for at least two more years. In fact I expect him to be commenting visciously about the supposed failings of the Democratic administration that takes over from him and Boy George II and has to clean up the messes they’ve left around the world.

    “I don’t like Lieberman but I don’t think he did anything wrong by running as an independent.” – Dale

    If he was an independent, and had not run in the Democratic primary, that would be fine. But Joe claimed to be a Democrat and he did run in the Democratic primary. It is his failure to support the nominee of his party that is the fault here.

    “Newly re-elected, Democratic Gov. Freudenthal can appoint a nice replacement [for ailing senator Craig Thomas].” – J Bean

    MW pointed that out for us in comment #28 😉

  • Hey guys, a lot of us herr in CT aren’t impressed with the small slice of Dem voters that put Lamont in the race and allowed Joe to run and win Independent from the Dem party! Now that was thinking! JRS Jr

    Well, to be fair, it was the majority of voting registered Democrats in the primary; it’s misleading to call that a ‘small slice.’

    Also, they didn’t allow Joe to run independently. The broken registration deadlines in Connecticut allowed him to run and his ego drove him to.

    He should make the most of it now, because his power will be short lived. The Joementum stops in two years.

  • JRS Jr- hey, Lieberfuck would have had his way either way now, even if he was still a Dem. Remember, my favorite Jim Jeffords was elected as a Vermont Republican (I have to put Vermont in front of that because we don’t really have any Republifucks there.), and he jumped to Independent and swung the Senate. In a 51/49 or 50/50 configuration, Lieberfuck has and had his extra clout either way.

    Oh, and don’t blame the voters. It’s called Democracy . If Lieberfuck had chosen to follow the rules, then we wouldn’t be in this mess. I am just disappointed that the Dems didn’t come onboard and dump the fuck after he lost the primary. I am pretty darn sure that the CT voters don’t want a Republifuck (either in name or wannabe form) as their Senator. If the Democratic ‘leadership’ (such as it is) had locked step behind the party’s chosen candidate, this wouldn’t be an issue right now.

  • Lamont got EXACTLY the same number of votes as did the republican candidate from the last cycle six years ago. Lie-ber-man won with less than half of the votes cast this cycle. With the national attention to this race, why did 14% fewer voters show up at the poles? Did only Connecticut buck the high vote turnout trend? This is freaky to say the least.

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