MCA to be revisited

When the Military Commissions Act, which among other things suspended habeas corpus for suspected terrorists, went to the Senate floor in September, Sen. Arlen Specter (R-Pa.) noted, “Surely as we are standing here, if this bill is passed and habeas corpus is stricken, we’ll be back on this floor again” after the courts reject the legislation.

We may not have to wait that long. Earlier this month, we saw the first inkling that the MCA might be revisited in 2007, but it now appears almost certain that the law will be re-examined by the new Democratic Senate.

Senate Democrats plan to revisit one of the most contentious matters of 2006: deciding what legal rights must be protected for detainees held in the war on terrorism.

In September, Congress passed a bill that gave President Bush wide latitude in interrogating and detaining captured combatants. The legislation prompted more than three months of debate — exposing Republican fissures and prompting angry rebukes by Democrats of the administration’s interrogation policies.

A group of Senate Democrats and one Republican, Senator Arlen Specter of Pennsylvania, want to resurrect the bill to fix a provision they say threatens the nation’s credibility on human rights issues.

Incoming Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid’s (D-Nev.) office said this week that Reid “would support attempts to revisit some of the most extreme elements of the bill” including language stripping detainees of habeas corpus rights.

Good. I don’t doubt the White House will issue all manner of veto threats, but I’d like to see just how many lawmakers are willing to undo what they did.

I hope readers won’t mind too much if I reprint a New York Times’ editorial on the law from September, written before the legislation passed, as a reminder of just how awful the MCA is.

Some of the measure’s biggest flaws include:

Enemy Combatants: A dangerously broad definition of “illegal enemy combatant” in the bill could subject legal residents of the United States, as well as foreign citizens living in their own countries, to summary arrest and indefinite detention with no hope of appeal. The president could give the power to apply this label to anyone he wanted.

The Geneva Conventions: The bill would repudiate a half-century of international precedent by allowing Mr. Bush to decide on his own what abusive interrogation methods he considered permissible. And his decision could stay secret — there’s no requirement that this list be published.

Habeas Corpus: Detainees in U.S. military prisons would lose the basic right to challenge their imprisonment. These cases do not clog the courts, nor coddle terrorists. They simply give wrongly imprisoned people a chance to prove their innocence.

Judicial Review: The courts would have no power to review any aspect of this new system, except verdicts by military tribunals. The bill would limit appeals and bar legal actions based on the Geneva Conventions, directly or indirectly. All Mr. Bush would have to do to lock anyone up forever is to declare him an illegal combatant and not have a trial.

Coerced Evidence: Coerced evidence would be permissible if a judge considered it reliable — already a contradiction in terms — and relevant. Coercion is defined in a way that exempts anything done before the passage of the 2005 Detainee Treatment Act, and anything else Mr. Bush chooses.

Secret Evidence: American standards of justice prohibit evidence and testimony that is kept secret from the defendant, whether the accused is a corporate executive or a mass murderer. But the bill as redrafted by Mr. Cheney seems to weaken protections against such evidence.

Offenses: The definition of [tag]torture[/tag] is unacceptably narrow, a virtual reprise of the deeply cynical memos the administration produced after 9/11. Rape and sexual assault are defined in a retrograde way that covers only forced or coerced activity, and not other forms of nonconsensual sex. The bill would effectively eliminate the idea of rape as torture.

It’s worth noting that this list of “flaws” is not subjective — [tag]Republicans[/tag] on both ends of Pennsylvania Avenue freely admitted that this is exactly what the legislation is intended to do.

Now some of the same senators who held their nose and voted for this thing in the fall will have another bite at the apple. I’m looking forward to it.

God forbid we actually try to win the war, right?

  • God forbid we actually try to win the war, right?

    Tell you what, Thomas, if you can make the case that the only way to win the war is to abandon the Constitution, reject centuries of Western civilization’s legal traditions, embrace torture, blow off the Geneva Conventions, and give up on the very ideals that make the United States the greatest country in history, then I’ll be more than happy to agree with you.

    On a related note, readers might find it interesting to know that Thomas has broken a Carpetbagger record — he’s had 36 comments in less than 24 hours. Wow.

  • I’m certain we can win if only we can convince to Bush twins to enter the conflict. Too long have their superior travel and shopping capabilities remain untapped by a desperate nation.

  • Or if that’s impossible, I’m sure we can torture someone into signing articles of surrender.

  • And, first of all, I don’t propose we abandon the ENTIRE Constitution or reject EVERY century of Western civilization’s legal traditions. Second, I don’t “embrace torture” or “blow off the Geneva Conventions” any more than, say Professor Dershowitz would. So, let’s stop with the strawmen arguments. As for “the very ideals that make the United States the greatest country in history” I would suspect that you and I disagree on those. That being said, where would you like to start?

  • Well, you want me to make the case or stop posting?

    The latter. All in favor say aye.

  • Well, you want me to make the case or stop posting?

    The latter. All in favor say aye.

    Aye. It’s not so much what a troll says, it’s the attitude that makes them so unpleasant.

  • I say we arbitrarily deprive Thomas of his rights and see how he likes it.

    On a related topic, I do hope the Democrats have the good sense and courage to revisit all those obscene tax breaks the GOP granted the richest one percent, i.e., the modern “robber barons”. All that can be taken back, should be. While we’re at it, how about going back to the 90-percent tax brackets of the Eisenhower Administration? Millionaires seem to have fared pretty well under Ike, taxes notwithstanding. Union workers did well, too.

  • What are you proposing, Thomas? That we blow off rules and standards whenever they become too hard, or too inconvenient? What standards do you propose we apply when someone gets the bright idea to ignore parts of the Constitution? And as CB asked, why do you think this is the only way to win this ill defined and ill conceived war?

  • Okay, Thomas, make your case already. I believe in giving everyone a chance to make their arguments.

    How do you propose innocent prisoners challenge their detention without habeas corpus?

    Why should Bush be the person to decide what constitutes torture?

    What stops American citizens from being labelled enemy combatants and locked away forever?

    Where does the US get the right to kidnap people from their own countries without cooperation of their government?

    I’m all for winning but there are smart ways and there are idiotic, shortsighted ways that can come back and bite us.

  • God forbid we actually try to win the war, right?

    Ahh, it would be sooooooooo much fun to have you tied down face-down, legs spreadeagled, with a nice red-hot poker in hand, Thomas.

    Want to bet you’d squeal like a pig just glancing over your shoulder before anything happened, you southern-fried sack of shit???

    Surprised a moron who lacks frontal lobes and opposable thumbs would still be doing such haaaaaard work as typing in “orange” here, you dipwit.

  • Maybe Thomas is on to something. After all, we can apply the Military Commissions Act to solve troll problems. All we have to do is:

    1. Enemy Combatants — Have Thomas declared an ‘illegal enemy combatant’. We may have to wait for a different president to do this. Rest assured Thomas, someday there will be a president you don’t like. Do you want to give that president Military Commissions Act powers?

    2. Habeas Corpus — Thomas will say that he can’t be declared an ‘illegal enemy combatant’ because he’s an American citizen. Fortunately, since he has no right to defend himself in court he will not be allowed to challenge his imprisonment.

    3. Geneva Conventions, Coerced Evidence, Offenses — After torturing Thomas (playing the Al Franken party album over and over again at high decibel levels until he cracks), he admits that:
    “Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”

    4. Secret Evidence — During the five minute military tribunal that convicts Thomas based on his admission (which, or course, Thomas is not allowed to attend) the prosecution also reveals evidence that Thomas has been posting on The Carpetbagger Report. Clearly a subversive, two lifetimes are added to his sentence.

    5. Judicial Review — After being convicted to eternal damnation in Guantanemo, Thomas looks for relief from the courts. Sorry Thomas.

  • “God forbid we actually try to win the war, right?”Thomas

    If a war can’t be avoided, then winning is perhaps the next best option.

    I guess it depends on what is meant by “can be avoided” and what is meant by “win the war”, but the MCA sure looks like a recipe for losing the war to me. What I don’t understand is why anyone would want to lose a war so much, that they would try to force it on everyone by passing a law to accomplish it.

  • “God forbid we actually try to win the war, right?” – Thomas

    What exactly about locking up sixteen year old Afghan boys sold to us by bounty hunters helps us win a war?

    Every stupid claim the Bushites make about having to go to extrodinary lengths to fight this war is false. We had the legal tools and powers to win against al Qaeda before 9/11/01. What we didn’t have was adults in charge of our country. When Doctor Rice says she can’t imagine terrorist flying planes into buildings, even though that’s the plot of a Tom Clancy novel, you know we are not being protected by our government.

    Boy George II claims that al Qaeda attacked us because they “hate our freedoms”. So is his (and your) solution to take all those freedoms away from America so al Qaeda won’t hate us anymore? Because his solution is clearly not to find and bring Osama bin Laden to justice.

    Oh, and by the way, nothing in the MAC or anything else BG2 has done for the last four years done anything to help us win the war.

  • For how long will the provisions of the MCA be enforced? Who decides when this “war” is won or lost? The next President?

    Personally, I like havng different opinions at CBR. Mainly because unlike most other sites, our debates hardly devolve to the “‘you suck!!’ ‘No, you suck'” level. Nothing turns me off a comments section more than having to read sophmoric, idiotic postings.

    And if you disagree, bite me, because you suck!

  • Just remember, when Hillary Rudham Clinton has this power to arrest, detain, and “lose” any American citizen she does not like, it will have been Alberto Gonzales who justified it and Bill Frist and Denny Hastert who passed it and George Walker Bush (BG2) who signed it.

    If that thought does not bring you to your senses, than you’ve lost all compass.

  • God forbid we actually try to win the war, right? Thomas, @1

    And which war is it that you’d like us to win? A war on Constitution? Will you consider it a win when it disappears entirely from the collective consciendce of US citizens, or is poking holes in it good enough for you?

    readers might find it interesting to know that Thomas has broken a Carpetbagger record — he’s had 36 comments in less than 24 hours. Wow. — CB, @2

    I expect the novelty of being able to post, without censorship, is likely to wear off soon; there are, afterall, only so many ways of tying standard WH talking points to the “situation on the ground” (ie actual discussion)

  • We’ve been waging this war (actually we’re waging an ocupation in Iraq) using all these nasty tactics of torture, harsh detainment, no civil rights for the detained, wiretapping, etc. and we’re still no closer to winning anything than when we started, and I would argue we could even be further from anyone’s argument of what victory constitutes than before these MCA-type behaviors began. We could torture, falsely detain and deprive millions of others of their rights and I would bet even more people in this world would wish us all harm than before.

    Even Arlen Specter knows these abuses are wrong, it just took Democratic balls to correct what everyone knew was a mistake.

  • On a related note, readers might find it interesting to know that Thomas has broken a Carpetbagger record — he’s had 36 comments in less than 24 hours. Wow.
    ——————————-“Fearless Leader”

    So, CB… am I correct that you need someone to “crank this puppy up to ludicrous speed” and run some serious “Anti-Tommie defense?”

  • wow, thomas really got it handed to him.
    as i’m sure you all know, habeas corpus can be suspended in times of invasion or rebellion (which neither are happening), but it cannot be revoked. constitution 101.

  • Well, I’d have to join the pile on of Thomas … but hearing a different perspective here does have its value … rather than relegating it all to a ‘free speech zone.’ That said, it’s pure idiocy to advocate trashing the constitution in order to justify extreme measures.

    Clearly, we need to have the new Dem majority revisit the MCA and strike down those most egregious provisions, lest we continue this insane march toward fascism instigated by the $hrub régime. Get that one out… and let Feingold trash the rest of the Patriot Act! (and he’d better go after it, having dashed my hopes of him running in 08).

    I’m certainly no “concern troll” stroker, but it is good to hear a dissenting (if totally off base and insane) voice once in a while. But going along w/ CB… 36 posts in 24 hrs does seem a bit strident to me….

  • What exactly got “handed” to me again? I thought the vote above was for me to stop posting. At least now it is only 40 posts in 48 hours. Maybe when it is 40 posts in 40 days, I will be allowed to come back. See ya!

  • How convenient, Thomas. If you can’t argue your case you can just act like it’s because people want you to stop talking.

  • Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.
    – Benjamin Franklin

  • I don’t want Thomas to stop posting. I think if we stop the free exchange of thought and idea we have lost not just this war, but every war.
    The people slamming this guy here refuse to look beyond their noses. They are so convinced they understand it all, that they are not interested in even hearing someone else’s ideas.
    You should try the old high school debate tactic of making a case for the opinion opposite your own. It might help.
    I can understand arguing over a topic, but to criticize someone for expressing his/her opinion?
    Thomas, you walked into the lion’s den of your own free will. You should not leave now!

  • It’s neither convenient, nor am I leaving. I said I would be back in 40 days, and I already gave a broad outline of the argument above. I, no doubt, disagree with Shawn and good old Ben too. I also will not stand by and watch America fall for your perverted ideas of liberty and liberalism. I’m reminded of the lion in “Out of Africa” — you people are much worse than that lion just doing what comes naturally — and it doesn’t matter to me if anyone agrees with me or not. See you all next year.

  • Thomas, are you like locusts that return seasonally or is 40 days when your methamphetamine dealer will “hook you up again” so you can comment around the clock? You made the offer to leave and somebody put it up for a vote, but like the typical Republican, you are a disappointment and won’t keep your word. I wanted to remind you to attend the Bush Supporter rally being held in the phone booth between the liquor store and the adult book store on BuggerU Street. I’ll be anxiously awaiting your next post when you can again compare yourself to Dershowitz.

    Thomas, since you brought up Dershowitz, talk about adjusting our Constitution and “you really want to win the war”, would you be okay with the US doing this, too?

    Israeli security forces killed 660 Palestinians in 2006 according to Israeli rights group (141 children, 322 that had no part in hostile acts), 3 times number killed in 2005

    A top IDF judge disclosed on Tuesday that 2,700 Palestinians have been detained without trial this year, criticizing the military prosecution for not filing charges against some of them., “sometimes evidence is too sensitive to submit to a trial.”

    Where would you draw the line, Thomass?

  • The war was never fought in order for us to win. Most of the top military strategists said that it would be foolish to enter into the ‘war’. Bush and co invaded Iraq to destabalize the Middle East and so that we could establish permanent military bases over there. Google permanent military bases in Iraq and you will see for yourself. Also, we are about to become the ‘American Union’ (google this as well) where the borders with Canada and Mexico will be essentially erased. This whole thing is about the progression to global government and the elitists don’t give a damn about us… yes that includes you Thomas.. they don’t give a damn about you either. Welcome to the new world order, unless people who value their rights as human beings can retake their country. Aren’t we supposed to be a nation ruled by the people for the people? or ruled by maniacal tyrants?

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