Sunday Discussion Group

In all likelihood, if every leak of the last several weeks is to be believed, the president is going to unveil his “new way forward” in Iraq in a couple of days. Democrats, in Congress and out, aren’t going to like it — the strategy will probably include an escalation of thousands of troops, it will reject even a hint of redeployment or withdrawal, and will extend our commitment to the conflict well into the future.

The question is: what on earth are Democrats going to do about it? Just as importantly, what can they do about it?

Newly elected Rep. Nancy Boyda (D-Kan.) almost certainly has the wrong idea. Asked if she could support a troop escalation, Boyda characterized it as a fait accompli for the entire legislative branch of government. Bush, she said, “is the commander in chief…. We don’t get that choice. Congress doesn’t make that decision.”

That, of course, is entirely wrong, but it does touch on a certain uncomfortable reality: the Dems’ options are somewhat limited. The most common proposal — having Congress de-fund the war — is problematic. For one thing, Nancy Pelosi (hardly a war supporter) has said the option is off the table. For another, as Barney Frank explained during an interview with Keith Olbermann on Wednesday, the administration would work around it.

OLBERMANN: Are you fearful that if you were to cut the money off, if you were to actually refuse to bankroll it, as a Congress, that the money would be spent, there’d still be money spent to send them there, without protecting them, or…

FRANK: Well, that’s the problem. It could be spent. The fact is that the Pentagon budget could–other money could be taken from other purposes and spend it. You couldn’t do it just by voting no money. You would have to say–you’d have to pass something that said, None of the [money] that we’re voting can be used for this. But it’s too late for that. We’ve already voted for the defense budget for the year….

He already has hundreds of billions of dollars legally in his possession to spend. So there is, in fact, no way, I think, to cut off the money, unless we were to pass a law and he would veto it. So we are frustrated in that extent.

Needless to say, this is wholly unsatisfying. The nation seems to desperately want Congress to do something, but what?

The WaPo’s E. J. Dionne Jr. had a good column on Friday that noted, among other things, that if Bush wants to “continue or expand the Iraq war, Congress has precious few tools available to stop the commander in chief.” One of the measures under consideration, however, is a reconsideration of the original authorization-of-force resolution from October 2002.

Even Bush’s critics doubt that the broadest measure, cutting off funds for the president’s policies, could be effective or has the votes to pass. Yet Bush’s opponents will be emboldened if he embarks on a surge, especially if it is not linked to what Sen. Carl Levin (D-Mich.), the new chairman of the Armed Services Committee, calls “milestones” for political reconciliation that the Iraqi government will have to reach. Levin, whose views are shared by many Democrats, also insists that any surge should be part of an “overall plan of troop reduction” that would begin “within four to six months.”

Given the limited options, Sen. Joe Biden (D-Del.), the Foreign Relations Committee chairman, has suggested to his colleagues that the strongest response to the surge would be a congressional resolution explicitly opposing the step.

Whereas cutting off funds is a “hollow threat,” Biden said in an interview this week, a congressional resolution could have a powerful effect if it drew support from the significant number of Republican senators who are increasingly alienated from Bush’s policies. Biden, who expects to offer his proposal at a meeting of Democratic senators today, argued that an anti-surge resolution might not bind the president but would exert considerable pressure on him to reconsider his approach.

More intriguing, Biden is studying whether Congress might reconsider the original Iraq war resolution, now as out of date as the administration’s prewar claims. The resolution includes references to a “significant chemical and biological weapons capability” that Iraq didn’t have and repeated condemnations of “the current Iraqi regime,” i.e., the Saddam Hussein regime that fell long ago. In effect, the resolution authorizes a war on an enemy who no longer exists and for purposes that are no longer relevant.

What kind of options do you think the Dems should consider? What should Congress’ role be in stopping a president bent on a disastrous military policy?

Why can’t Congress just pass a bill stating “The President shall not invade or attack Iran without the approval of Congress and such an unapproved action shall constitute grounds for impeachment”?

  • Include a tax increase on corporations and the wealthy exactly equal to the amount requested in the supplemental appropriations bill. This would require Bush to either sign it or veto, making the case Iraq is worth dying for but not paying for.

  • Drat! Sorry about that. “The President shall not send more troops to Iraq without the approval of Congress” et al.

  • Cut the crap. Begin impeachment hearings for George Walker Bush and Richard Bruce Cheney NOW. If what they\’ve done doesn\’t constitute grounds for impeachment, nothing does and our nation might as well fold up shop and wipe the next person\’s ass with our Constitution. Get the impeachment machinery going before they have a chance to get all lawyered up, and, while we\’re at it, schedule serious inquiries at the Hague about War Crimes trials for everybody.

  • Congress should do 2 things

    first – make the war pay as you go – for every dollar requested a dollar of revenue has to be found – make sacrifice real

    second – revist the original authorization bill – which states that the president could use whatever force necessary to find and eliminate WMD and to oust saddam hussein – mission accomplished – time to leave iraq to the iraqis

  • A bunch of good suggestions. The House may be able to accomplish some of these things (not impeachment, however well deserved) but I doubt the repubs in the Senate will go along. I suspect that there are enough loyalists to fillibuster any reconsideration of the Iraq war resolution (or the “inspection and tougher stuff” resolution because this still isn’t an offically declared war).

    Dionne and the Carpetbagger are right, there are few good options. But have you all noticed that the Democrats are suddenly being heard on this and other issues, suddenly included in the public discourse, and not as the butt of jokes, in the MSM? Dems are going on Faux News and into other hostile territory and fighting back, speaking out on these issues. Bush&Co are at 30% in the polls, the shrubs pronouncements are increasingly treated in the MSM with skepticism (and sometimes thinly veiled contempt).

    The narrative against the Bush/McCain/Lieberman escalation has taken hold. The dems need to keep this in the forefront, keep using the term “escalation” and rejecting “surge”, and simply keep presenting the reality in contrast to the Bush spin. The public is listening.

    Given the Bush&Co pathologies and the political realities Frank noted above, I’m not sure anything can actually stop bush short of removal from office, but we can make sure that anything he does will hurt him and the repubs badly in the future.

  • Gee CB couldn’t you come up with a more challenging topic?

    While I can’t think of anything that the Democrats could do which would directly stop Junior from doing what he wants to do, there is one very important lesson we learned in the run up to the Iraq war which must now be put into practice. Ask the hard questions. Before BushCo can implement any “new strategy” in Iraq, Gates, the generals, and Rice should be called before appropriate committees to fully explain the goals and the plans to achieve those goals. This would establish a record against which progress and failure could be more or less objectively measured. Once the new policy is put into place Congress should regularly issue independent progress reports. This would serve to undercut any effort by BushCo to spin failure as success. This could generate enough public support for the Democrats to consider more drastic measures such as revoking the ATUMF.

    Now one might argue Junior’s low approval rating on Iraq means that there is currently enough support to revoke the ATUMF. My guess is that if people were polled on the various options which Congress should take that those who oppose the war would fragment.

    Further, there is another lesson which we have learned from Vietnam. The Republicans will in the long run try to shift the blame for the failure in Iraq to the Democrats. The progress reports would serve not only to counter short term spin, it would help to prevent the long run distortion of the historical record.

    Well CB, that’s the best I could do on two cups of strong coffee. I am eager to read all of the other suggestions at the end of the day.

  • The Dems should start by demanding real budget numbers for the annual costs of Bush’s war – something the repubs have been all too happy to ignore. When the Bush regime comes back for the inevitable supplemental funding, Dems can authorize it on the contingent that troop levels not exceed a certain number. They should dare the deciderer to issue a signing statement overturning it.

  • Ed #5 carries a sentiment greatly embraced by many of us common Amreicans. Hearings and more hearings need to begin yesterday. Such hearings will serve as a basis to evaluate this president’s unlawfulness. They could serve as a conduit for coalescing into an impeachment process. In the meantime, Congress would be educating us on just how the Haliburton no-bid taxpaying contract it got from this WH, who was involved in juicing the intellegence to go into Iraq in the first place, and why political hacks were recruited to serve in civilian capacities in the Green Zone. These three potential improprieties are but the tip of the matter, and I conjecture once Congress establishes oversight, we will begin to see what has become far too quickly a very ugly, misery strewn American foreign policy debacle. -Kevo

  • I won’t echo these already great suggestions but I think the real question being asked is: What can Democrats do to stop the mad man that won’t affect their careers?

    I’m afraid some folks might have to take a hit, or risk a hit on this one. They’re going to have to be as brave as the C-i-C is cowardly. The Deciderator is going to come to them with a plan and insist that they have to implement it right this second or the world will end etc. But he isn’t trying to save the world, he’s trying to drag as many people into the dirt as possible. “Hey, I just asked, they voted for it! Heh, heh.”

    Refusals or demands that he at least explain his plan will be painted as harming the soldiers, aiding the terrorists, etc, etc. If the Democrats fall for it because they fear it will harm their chances during the next election, they will just be putting off the day they lose their jobs. Sure, some people will go to their graves saying that “If only that dang Democratic Congress had given Bush his 100K non-existent troops we woulda won!” Some Democrats might not get re-elected. It might mean a ReThuglican president in 2008. But we’re not just talking about who controls what. We’re talking about human lives that are being wasted because Mummsy & Daddsy Bush forgot to lock up the liqour cabinet.

    I think at this point though, reasonable Americans understand that haste makes waste and if the Democrats actually explain what they’re doing and why the BushBrat doesn’t have his non-existent soldiers, they’ll understand. What people don’t have patience for is explanations AFTER the fact.

  • Since commentators on MSM are stating that the escalation is for political not military reasons, I agree with rege’s suggestions before funding happens, the military bosses should “fully explain the goals and the plans to achieve those goals”. In fact hearings should begin the day after the President’s new goals are released. Bush’s actions have consistently been of the smoke and mirror variety reminding me of workers who pretend to be busy in order to keep the boss from assigning more tasks.

  • Well they should start talking about impeachment if he persists, and if the war gets worse and worse and if political will stays against the president they should start making formal moves towards impeachment, i.e. you’d start with resolutions, a few months down the line.

  • I thought I’d throw this into the mix.(via TPM)

    President Bush has lost majority support on Iraq from residents of the reddest state in the nation.
    A Salt Lake Tribune poll conducted last week shows Utah’s support for Bush’s handling of the war in Iraq has taken a substantial plunge in the past few months. Just 41 percent of Utahns say they support Bush on Iraq – marking the first time a Tribune poll has found fewer than half of Utahns in the president’s war camp.
    Meanwhile, the poll shows Utahns about evenly split on whether to send more troops to Iraq. About 44 percent of Utahns back a “surge” – an option Bush reportedly is considering, and which has much lower nationwide support.

    This low support in Utah for Junior’s Iraq policy means that his hole is getting deeper, but Utah’s concurrent support for escalation means that at least as many in Utah don’t think he’s digging fast enough and what to toss him a shovel. The point is that amongst those that don’t think Junior is doing a good job, there would be some who would oppose any direct action by Democrats to begin withdrawal.

  • to “the answer is orange’s” (great name!) comment that “What can Democrats do to stop the mad man that won’t affect their careers?” I would submit that a majority seem to have determined that opposing shrub’s madness is now the politically smart thing to do. BOut damn time. The joint letter from Reid and Pelosi to Bush last week put down abundantly clear markers that it seems a vast majority of Dems will support (leaving out Joe deLusionalman). I really think they are doing very well on this right now, within the bounds of what is possible (read Barney Frank again for that).

    As I read all of the above comments, it seems there is a coalescing around the Dems constantly pushing back hard in every way they can, primarily very pointed hearings and regular media appearences on TV and in print. And they appear to be doing just that.

  • It’s interesting listening to Biden on MTP talking about stopping funding. He basically says that the idea about controlling the pursestrings was written into the Constitution at a time when there was no standing army. Now that there is, it has a budget of hundreds of billions of dollars. Congress can’t pull that funding because it would destroy the military entirely; the president as commander in chief gets to decide what to with the military (to some large extent). Bush would essentially be able to keep the military there forever. He said point-blank that it would be unconstitutional to pass legislation that says only X number of troops there, draw down to some level, etc. That’s Bush’s call. He basically says that the Dems must be united and increase public/political pressure against Bush to take action. Not a great choice since, as we all know, Bush doesn’t listen to polls.

  • It would be premature for some people to start talking about impeachment. But somebody who’s not too high profile, say Jack Murtha (my guess is upwards of 60% of people don’t know who he is) but high profile enough to get on TV could just mention it just so people know it’s out there (of course, Murtha probably doesn’t support impeachment, though).

    Hillary Clinton is probably a good weathervane of how people are feeling about the Iraq war. She’s always just a little right of most people.

    If people start to turn more against the war then it might be time to start talking about impeachment more officially.

  • Actually, the Dems have a wider margin in the House of Representatives now than the Republicans did when they impeached Clinton. So we can impeach George Bush. That doesn’t mean we can remove him from office. The Republicans in Congress didn’t take a hit from their totally ridiculous impeachment effort. This one is justified and shouldn’t cause any real damage to election hopes for Dems in 08. After all the next president after Clinton was a Republican.

    So impeach. Make Bush go through every hoop Clinton had to go through.

    And/or nail down one of Cheney’s crimes and do a Spiro Agnew on him.

    Congress cut funding in half for the Vietnam war, they can do that again.

  • Time to get out the pitchforks, folks, ’cause AWOL is going to disband the congress as obstructionist and declare martial law. It has happened before, under the sponsorship of AWOL’s grandfather Prescott, it is happening again. The playbook is out there for ayone to read – it’s called History – and the first play was Karen Hughes AWOL’s WSJ oped this past Monday bemoaning the partisanship of the current (at the time as yet to be sat) congress.

  • Bush has made himself politically vulnerable by making all the Iraq funding, supplementals.

    Congress should fund all the Iraq supplementals with taxes on oil companies and billionaires.

    It wouldn’t stop The Surge, but it would reduce enthusiasm among Bush’s base of haves and have-mores.

  • Hats off to the group this morning for its very astute comments, as usual.

    Pulling the funding doesn’t look like a good option for the points mentioned above. Bush has done a good job of funding this through other means, so any vote to deny funds will be a political IED for the Dems.

    The rescinding, revoting or modifying the AUMF would send a message that Congress is on record for opposing an invasion or attack on Iran and further escalation of military activities during the Iraq occupation. The votes have to be there, though, because a narrow loss on any of these votes would be a huge setback.

    The trump card up Congress’ sleeve is to bring the executive branch into their sphere of influence – Capital Hill. The ability to hold oversight hearings cannot be taken lightly. The first person to call is W himself. He can bring legal counsel along, but no Cheney, no Rove, no one else at the table but W. A muttering, stumbling fool who cannot justify to the world what he ‘s doing and why he has failed will drive public opinion against the war to a crescendo. Then bring the generals front and center to find out why they were chained to a failed stategy during the “stay the course” years and then Condi to find out why she’s done nothing on the diplomatic side to resolve any of the exacerbating issues.

    Newsweek has a piece on how the White House is losing the “infowar” that is shaping public opinion in both the US and Iraq. A key sentence from the story was “A draft report recently produced by the Baghdad embassy’s director of strategic communications Ginger Cruz and obtained by NEWSWEEK makes the stakes clear: ‘Without popular support from US population, there is the risk that troops will be pulled back … Thus there is a vital need to save popular support via message.'” It’s time to prove how foolish the message is by proving what fools are the messengers.

  • Talk has become cheaper than darkness itself to this tragedy within the halls of the White House. Talk is meaningless, and this fraudulent administrator—this “Decider”—has put into place both the machinations and the precedence to effectively ignore any act of Congress with a mere “statement.” The only tool left to the Legislature “is” impeachment, but the Congress gave the impertinent Mantle-Free Monarch the very tool he needs to prevent that action, as well, by granting him sole authority to have people locked up without access to Habeus. Or does anyone really believe—with emphasis on the word REALLY—that the chief occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue is capable of following any direction brought upon him by the Congress?

    He has lied repeatedly, to the Congress, to the Courts, and to the People. He has permitted the construction of a “false” Media; an industry of promoting subterfuge, denial, criminal contempt, theft, torture, and even the murder of those who disagree with his policies.

    The time, I believe, is fast approaching when those who still view themselves as loyal Americans who do not see Loyalty to Nation as being a part-time subcomponent of Loyalty to Leader—who do not see the Constitution as applicable only when it benefits the will of a Tyrant who can no longer be deemed as even “benevolent” to the majority of the People—must pause, and contemplate these few words:

    …”with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”

    On the day that those words were adopted, a handful of men in Philadelphia took into consideration the same thing that we, today, are discussing—how to effectively deal with a distant Tyrant. The only actual difference is that the distance is not a division by geographical boundary; it is, instead, a division by ideological boundary. That group of men knew the danger of their action, and they still had the fortitude to make a choice.

    To this great Decider; this pompous, imept, ignoble dictator of the current administration, I say that the time has come to ante up. Talk is no longer meaningful to the man. Bills and Resolutions are, likewise, meaningless. The time has come, methinks, to set the keyboard aside, and begin the exercise of action.

    First and foremost, the Congress has in its possession the ability to establish the National Budget. There are a great many things more important, in reality, to this false president than his precious little Iraqi expedition. Things like his addiction to obscene profits for his friends. Things like his desire to eavesdrop on ordinary citizens. Things like his obsession for controlling the actions and thoughts of the individual.

    These things can, with a mere swipe of the red pencil, be stricken from spending bills. Deny him the funding to implement his Military Commissions Act. Deny him the funding for domestic eavesdropping. Deny him the funding for opening people’s mail—and then offer him the opportunity of funding these items with (1) increased corporate taxes, or (2) pulling out of Iraq.

    If the power to squeeze the funding for these huge programs does not quell the administrative thirst for absolute power, then it may well be that the final option-of-options may require implementation—with the foresight that “pitchforks and torches” will not be of any use….

  • I have a clear sense of what the goal should be:

    Force Bush to choose between the war and his tax cuts for millionaires. If he wants to keep throwing our men and women into the meat grinder, it should cost him–and “the base.”

    And I have the frame: as Bush has repeatedly crashed the car, the Democrats are now going to take away the keys. I’m just not sure what political or legislative tools allow the Democratic majorities to achieve that goal.

  • To this:

    Time to get out the pitchforks, folks, ’cause AWOL is going to disband the congress as obstructionist and declare martial law.

    And this:

    …”with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”

    I would add – I can fit a half-dozen (non-cat allergic) people into my place without too much trouble. 20 minutes on the Metro and a short walk will put you on the Capitol steps. BYOH*

    Methinks 2007 won’t be dull. “In a get ready, here come the tanks!” sort of way.

    tAiO

    * Bring your own helmet.

  • I like JMG’s suggestion. A hefty tax on corporations and wealthy plutocrats who own the Republican party and most of the assets of the nation. A tax hefty enough to pay for Bush’s war folly. He either has to veto it or accept it either way the money is taken off the credit card. Bush and his Lunaticotrie have obviously forgotten what happened in the 70’s when we had double digit interest rates (I had a mortgage at 11.5% and that was considered low) because of the political cowardice displayed by Johnson and Nixon who wouldn’t raise taxes to pay for the Viet Nam War. We can look for the same in the next several years after or if this catastrophic disaster Bush has visited on us is ever ended.

  • Deny him the funding to operate the White House. Defund Air Force One and put it in mothballs. Turn off his telephones. Let him and that fat bastard Cheney sit there and stew.

    Too bad the Praetorian Guard can’t come up with the Caligula Solution.

  • As I have said, ad nauseum, the answer to CB’s question is sticky and difficult because the invasion was based on a “plan” that virtually guaranteed disaster. That’s why it’s so damned hard to find a good answer. I don’t think a good answer is possible.

    As far as Congress, I don’t think it should begin impeachment proceedings right now. Impeachment, no matter how richly deserved, is a divisive act. No president has ever deserved it more than Bush — even Nixon — but like invading Iraq, it needs to be carefully considered.

    Also deserving of careful consideration is withholding funding for the war — even if Congress can easily do so after having lavished obscene powers on the president. Inevitably the Republicans will scream that the Dems are abandoning the troops, and it may appear to be that way.

    My suggestion is to investigate. Investigate the living hell out of the actions of this administration — and make the information gleaned VERY public. I think Americans — finally informed and faced with Bush’s incompetence and lawlessness — would become amenable to stronger congressional action, including the possibility of impeachment. (I first typed “impreachment,” which may have something to do with the religious right.) In fact, I think an investigation can be conducted in a way that closely resembles impeachment proceedings (just not the resultant trial).

    The result of the mid-terms indicate many Americans see Congress as their best protection from the Deciderer’s insane decisions. I don’t think it was just unhappiness. I think a quiet fear is emerging.

  • Not necessarily on-point to the discussion of how to stop Bush, here is the proof of what he really went to war about. If they’re going to do this, perhaps we could put a 100% tax on US oil companies doing this:

    Iraq’s massive oil reserves, the third-largest in the world, are about to be thrown open for large-scale exploitation by Western oil companies under a controversial law which is expected to come before the Iraqi parliament within days.

    The US government has been involved in drawing up the law, a draft of which has been seen by The Independent on Sunday. It would give big oil companies such as BP, Shell and Exxon 30-year contracts to extract Iraqi crude and allow the first large-scale operation of foreign oil interests in the country since the industry was nationalised in 1972.

    . . .

    Oil industry executives and analysts say the law, which would permit Western companies to pocket up to three-quarters of profits in the early years, is the only way to get Iraq’s oil industry back on its feet after years of sanctions, war and loss of expertise. But it will operate through “production-sharing agreements” (or PSAs) which are highly unusual in the Middle East, where the oil industry in Saudi Arabia and Iran, the world’s two largest producers, is state controlled.

    Opponents say Iraq, where oil accounts for 95 per cent of the economy, is being forced to surrender an unacceptable degree of sovereignty.

    . . .

    Supporters say the provision allowing oil companies to take up to 75 per cent of the profits will last until they have recouped initial drilling costs. After that, they would collect about 20 per cent of all profits, according to industry sources in Iraq. But that is twice the industry average for such deals.

  • Speaking of supplementals, there hasn’t been anywhere near enough coverage of the Wall St. Journal’s report on the looming $100 billion supplemental being loaded with stuff that has nothing to do with the war in Iraq or Afghanistan. This was set in motion by the politicos at DoD because they’re sure Congress will be afraid to refuse the Pentagon anything — wouldn’t want to “hurt the troops”, you know.

  • Tom’s post (#33) brings up an interesting point. Just how many US troops will be needed to protect new development in the Iraqi oil fields? My guess would be about 30,000. The same amount of additional troops that Bush is calling for.

  • This would be flat out brilliant.

    Richard

    1. Include a tax increase on corporations and the wealthy exactly equal to the amount requested in the supplemental appropriations bill. This would require Bush to either sign it or veto, making the case Iraq is worth dying for but not paying for.

    Comment by JMG — 1/7/2007 @ 9:24 am

  • ***…BYOH*…***
    ——————–The Answer is Orange

    I seem to be fresh out of helmets, but there’s a nice stand of trees out back. Seige towers, catapults, and battering rams could be in order. Otherwise, i might have to borrow a variety of light artillery from numerous parks, memorials, and reserve stations in the area….

  • Make no mistake, the Iraq war is a disaster.

    A disaster from day one.

    The only question now, is how much will it cost?

    Those that lost a loved one, or a serviceman who lost a limb, already have their answer – the rest of us are still calculating.

    The responsibility to declare war, is given to congress, and congress alone via the constitution from our founding fathers

    yet, this power was transfered to a known drunk driver, G Bush

    Who gave the keys of war, a change of policy to first strike, delegated to an extreme concentration of power to an unworthy ‘decider’ G Bush?

    Well, one of the co-sponsors of the Iraq war resolution, was none other than John Edwards – he of course, voted for it also

    Now, he tells us he admits it was a mistake

    Think about it – if YOU gave your keys to a drunk driver 10 years ago in north carolina, and many people got killed and injured, and you admitted you made a mistake

    would john edwards have advocated you get a big promotion?

    or would he have taken you to the cleaners?

  • I fail to see why blocking the surge is in the Democrats’ interests at all. The purpose of the escalation, as I understand it, is to curb the blossoming sectarian violence and prevent the civil war from spiraling further out of control. Either the surge will accomplish those goals, or it won’t. If it doesn’t, then, having gone on record as against the idea beforehand, Democrats only stand to benefit politically when Bush’s last-ditch effort fails, and we all say hello to the Clinton-Obama administration in two years. If the escalation doesn’t fail– that is to say, if it actually accomplishes its goal of a more secure Iraq– then the good people of Iraq who, through no fault of their own, were thrust into this mess by Bush’s misguided policies can breathe a little easier and the process of picking up the pieces can move on. Obviously, if the escalation succeeds, the Republicans will benefit politically from that, and McCain will take all the credit in his 2008 campaign, but on the other hand, the Iraqi situation, and the powder-keg Middle East in general, will have been diffused to some degree, which is more important than the Democrats’ short-term political aspirations in any case.

    Simply put, then, the Democrats should state on the record in no uncertain terms that they are opposed to the escalation option, and then give Bush the money to do what he wants. From the Democratic perspective, it’s a win-win situation, no matter what happens.

    As an aside, I’m appalled and a bit disgusted by the number of people apparently endorsing notions of armed rebellion or assassination of the president in this thread. Way to hold the moral high ground, guys.

  • James Dillion,

    Who in what post has suggested the “assassination of the president in this thread”?

  • James Dillon:
    So Dems can let W go ahead with his “surge” “plan” because it is a “win -win” for them? The troops? Maybe not so much? You can keep your notion of political expedience as the moral high ground, sir.

  • Steve, might I suggest using recycled materials (ie the deck of a neighbor who voted ReThuglican) in order to spare the trees? Mean and Green baybee!

    James Dillon Translated:

    Screw the troops, someone help me find my reading comp skills and sense of humour.

    Andy F Translated:

    Never mind James Dillon, help me find my punctuation skills and the meds I’m taking for OCD!

  • James —

    I don’t have a problem with your opinion on a “surge.” I just disagree with it. Personally, I’m not in favor of any “surges,” but I’d like the decision to be for military reasons rather than political ones.

    One of my problems with a “surge” is its name. In truth, it’s what was called “escalation” during the Vietnam War. The Bush “surge” sounds as if 3,000 to 30,000 troops will go to Iraq for a short time, win the war, and then come home. I don’t think that will happen. Once more troops are committed, they’re there for good. Even 30,000+ won’t help, in my opinion.

    When I was in Vietnam in 1967, we got mail, equipment, and tons of documents to hold for “A Packet” and “B Packet.” We had no idea what these “packets” were. We found out when thousands of new troops (including the 101st Airborne) arrived, mostly by ship. LBJ announced he was going to increase troop strength the night before they arrived.

    A and B Packets didn’t make a dime’s worth of difference to the war, except to provide more dead and wounded.

    I mention this because we’ve learned that McNamara and other leaders had become convinced — in 1967! — that the war was lost. When I was there, I had no idea such a conclusion had been reached. Things didn’t seem to be going so bad in 1967.

    I really think the Iraq War is the Reader’s Digest Condensed Version of Vietnam. It’s the same shit all over again — especially continuing the war so that the already-dead will not have “died in vain.” When I first heard a reference to “hearts and minds,” I knew we were in trouble. If you ain’t got their hearts and minds already, you ain’t gonna get ’em later. A “surge” won’t do it.

  • One thing they can do is to force him to put his war on budget — refuse to pass any emergency appropriations and demand that it be incorporated in the regular Pentagon appropriation. That would force him to directly acknowledge the costs of his decisions by aligning them with increases in the national debt, and also have the salutary effect of ending the practice of adding non-emergency items like weapons development to the emergency appropriations bills.

    Ok, it isn’t much. But there really isn’t much the Congress can do.

  • Well, according to Corrente Joe and John when they were at the AEI are now talking about a “Sustained Surge” of 20 to 30 thousand troops. Sounds tlike they they are moving the goalposts to a place where they know won’t get what they are asking for, so they can hang the war’s failure on the Democrats later, especially as it now seems clearr that only 9,000 troops are available. Also, the last war we put on the national credit card (Vietnam) resulted in massive inflation for years afterwards.

    Pay-as-you-go would ameliorate both these problems, while requiring Bush to justify to to his hardcore base why he felt his policies were worth increasing their taxes.

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